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NVIDIA allegedly showing new MacBooks to staff - Page 2

post #41 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

They'd be stupid to release a computer in the current economic climate, even for Apple. People are not going to shell out their money when they all think the world is coming to an end.

Right.

Apple should instead continue to sell the old MacBooks even though they have a cheaper, better performing model in the labs ready to go.

Because when the going gets tough, that's when the tough choose to under-perform. And when people are disappointed in general, that's when it's time to disappoint them even more for no reason.
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post #42 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post

Thats not really good news. If you look in the PC world, Nvidia chipsets are known for running extremely hot, and as being less reliable than Intel chipsets.

That's an over-generalization If I ever heard one. Nvidia had a temporary problem with their manufacturing process that led to some of their boards having problems, but this has been corrected. As far as running "hot", we'll have to wait and see. These Intel-platform chipsets are brand new and will be using low-power integrated graphics. I think overall this is an excellent development. Nvidia's integrated graphics are many times more powerful than Intels, and have much superior H264/VC1 video decoding and enhancement. Also, because the GPU will be based on the Nvidia standard GPU architecture, this should give the Macbook future compatibility with Snow Leopard's OpenCL.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

+1
I'm highly dubious about the Nvidia rumor and believe the chipset will be a PA modded Intel. I expect new models and case designs this month with an announcement at Macworld of a Nelaham refresh in Q2 2009.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

You don't buy PA Semi who can do what Apple needs to separate their systems from general Intel specs and then turn to Nvidia for the solution.

PA SEMI has ZERO experience building PC graphics chipsets. It's obviously not a simple matter to create high performance, low-power GPUs and drivers, as has been shown by the years of continuous failure on the part of Intel to do so. Nvidia, on the other hand, is an expert.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwirob View Post

That being said, I believe the PA Semi expertise is to do with SOC integration to give iTouch/iPhone unbeatable graphics and processing power while extending the standby and talk-time, not work on the mac at this time. Possibly though the PA Semi work could be in the area of ultra-power efficient GPU cores which could scale all thr way from the Macbook line down to the iPhone/iTouch platform. By using a single customized GPU in both MacBook and iPhone/iTouch the unit cost of the components could be kept to a minimum.

Creating custom SoCs using ARM and PowerVR graphics cores, yes. Creating entirely new, from-the-ground-up graphics chipsets that can scale from an iPhone SoC to a macbook GPU? Highly unlikely.. It would be incredibly cost prohibitive to do so, given their lack of any experience in that market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterR View Post

Gen 1 anybody? Oh boy this will be fun!

Nvidia has been making laptop GPUs for a decade...
post #43 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

They'd be stupid to release a computer in the current economic climate, even for Apple. People are not going to shell out their money when they all think the world is coming to an end.

?? I don't understand what you mean. You are suggesting they shouldn't introduce newer, better, cheaper computers because the economic outlook is not great? That makes no sense at all! If the market condition gets rough, then they especially need new, more competitive products to compete!
post #44 of 131
This now makes the wait worth while. I was tossing the idea back and forth about not waiting two months ago, and this was my only thing keeping me waiting. I am very hopeful that this is true.
post #45 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

They'd be stupid to release a computer in the current economic climate, even for Apple. People are not going to shell out their money when they all think the world is coming to an end.

If the world is coming to an end, might as well get a sweet rig while I still can.

If I am the only human with a MacBook post-apocalypse, I will rule the world!
post #46 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Apple isn't using CUDA. They are using OpenCL. Nvidia is working towards making CUDA OpenCL compliant.

I thought OpenCL was just an abstraction layer on top of whatever specific hardware that it's used on top of.
post #47 of 131
would 8gb ram be possible with the new chipset?
post #48 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

Apple has access to professional financial advisors, and unlike 9-11 the concern of a slower economy is not new and quite predictable.

I think those people are probably smart enough to know that it's not really as bad as people have been saying it is. A slower economy doesn't mean collapse. Apple's been bucking trends like that even though we're supposedly in a major recession within a supposed impending depression.
post #49 of 131
Nvidia 2008 FTW! I've been saying it all year round. Obviously I am a little biased.
post #50 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by gluzd View Post

would 8gb ram be possible with the new chipset?

Very good question. Perhaps MacBook Pros could do 8GB. That would be awesome. Because most people on PCs and laptops run Windows XP and Vista which are mostly 32-bit. Which means even with 4GB RAM they hit the 3GB RAM barrier.

If the MacBook Pro could do 8GB... It would wipe the floor of Windoze XP and Vista -- since 64bit Vista is still pretty whack.
post #51 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by gluzd View Post

would 8gb ram be possible with the new chipset?

Intel's PM45 northbridge supports 8GB of RAM. Nvidia's competitor most likely will too, whether it is used by Apple or not. Have fun looking for 4GB SODIMMS.
post #52 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

Intel's PM45 northbridge supports 8GB of RAM. Nvidia's competitor most likely will too, whether it is used by Apple or not. Have fun looking for 4GB SODIMMS.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820134685
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148220

The looking for isn't hard. It's just expensive right now. I expect those prices to drop pretty quickly, as it has often done in the past.
post #53 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820134685
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148220

The looking for isn't hard. It's just expensive right now. I expect those prices to drop pretty quickly, as it has often done in the past.

All right, I should have said have fun paying for 4 gig SODIMMS. And there's at least a slim chance these things will be DDR3.
post #54 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

All right, I should have said have fun paying for 4 gig SODIMMS. And there's at least a slim chance these things will be DDR3.

DDR3 might be a problem. But the current cost really isn't a problem as far as I'm concerned. If someone really needs every gig they can get, then they probably can pay for it, others that can benefit can probably put off the RAM upgrade a year and breathe new life into the computer for far less than the cost of a new computer. I think it's realistic to suggest that each stick will probably cost $100 or less a year from now. Given how quickly 2GB sticks seemed to have dropped, that might even be $50 each. It seriously did not take very long for 2GB sticks to fall from the stratosphere to dirt cheap.
post #55 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by gluzd View Post

would 8gb ram be possible with the new chipset?

this really would be a killer feature in a laptop. especially for those of us that run multiple virtual machines... i'd snap one up immediately.
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post #56 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

DDR3 might be a problem. But the current cost really isn't a problem as far as I'm concerned. If someone really needs every gig they can get, then they probably can pay for it, others that can benefit can probably put off the RAM upgrade a year and breathe new life into the computer for far less than the cost of a new computer. I think it's realistic to suggest that each stick will probably cost $100 or less a year from now. Given how quickly 2GB sticks seemed to have dropped, that might even be $50 each. It seriously did not take very long for 2GB sticks to fall from the stratosphere to dirt cheap.

Of course. A "pro" who needs it for work will pay any price. And anyone else... doesn't need it.

Plus DDR3 prices are going to fall a long way over the next 12 months.
post #57 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post

Thats not really good news. If you look in the PC world, Nvidia chipsets are known for running extremely hot, and as being less reliable than Intel chipsets.

Yes. I was going to comment on that.

I guess I will anyway.

Very high rates of failure. Nvidia has put aside several hiundred million for this problem. They've been denying it fora long time now. But, it appears as though all of their chips, from gpu's, to chipsets have been affected by a money saving decision Nvidia made early in the year,or late last year.

New chips that dont have this problem (supposedly), will be available in Novenber, in retail product.

What this means for Apple's new products, I don't know.

But, I suspect that the reason Apple was running Nvidia gpu's at lower speeds that we saw PC manufacturers, and board manufacturers running them, was to keep those failing solder connections cooler.

People were saying that it was a lack of cooling in Apple's machines, but that isn't the case.
post #58 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooped View Post

there are a lot of photographers and filmmakers who do on location editing for things like photoshoots, news items, music festivals etc.
the portability of a laptop is very important but also the graphics card.
as it is now I can edit a movie on my macBook, but have to find a macpro to bounce to tape for exporting the video.
if there are better graphics involved, I'll be very tempted to sell the blackBook and buy a new one.

But then you buy a professional machine, and that has a gpu.

Macbooks aren't meant for professional graphics use of any kind. They are usable for Photoshop, because it doesn't require much there, and the screen resolution helps, but otherwise, no.
post #59 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

That's an over-generalization If I ever heard one. Nvidia had a temporary problem with their manufacturing process that led to some of their boards having problems, but this has been corrected. As far as running "hot", we'll have to wait and see. These Intel-platform chipsets are brand new and will be using low-power integrated graphics. I think overall this is an excellent development. Nvidia's integrated graphics are many times more powerful than Intels, and have much superior H264/VC1 video decoding and enhancement. Also, because the GPU will be based on the Nvidia standard GPU architecture, this should give the Macbook future compatibility with Snow Leopard's OpenCL.

Nvidia has had this problem for some time now, and it's believed that it affects EVERY ONE of their chips.

They themselves have said that they have changed their manufacturing process, and that the new chips will be released in November to retail.

No one right now knows what they are doing with OEM's though, as they haven't changed the numbering of the parts, and even some new parts have been manufactured the old way. Nvidia has also said that they were not recalling the "defective" parts, but were selling them until out of stock..Gives one a great deal of confidence.

If Apple is using a new Nvidia chipset, hopefully they will be getting them before others do, as Intel has done several times for Apple, so that we can feel assured that these are not defective.
post #60 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Nvidia 2008 FTW! I've been saying it all year round. Obviously I am a little biased.

Nuts, is more like it.\
post #61 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by rangerdavid View Post

And this is a major screw-up every time. The Higher Education buying cycle, for both faculty and staff, and incomming students, is around June and July for schools when budgets are set, and August when students get ready to get back to school. If you have a new (therefore more competitive) product like the MacBook you want to sell to students, and you release it in September or October, you've totally missed the boat. There are two big buying events for PCs/Laptops - Christmas and Back-to-School. And the latter is eariler than Apple has figured out.

Apple uses back-to-school to clear out old inventory before the release of new portables, apparently. It's been like this every year.
post #62 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by iDave View Post

Apple uses back-to-school to clear out old inventory before the release of new portables, apparently. It's been like this every year.

Yes they do and have done for over a decade.
post #63 of 131
People seem to not know that Intel intentionally cripples system RAM options to differentiate between Xeon and Core2Duo lines.

There is nothing keeping the Core2Duo from having 32GB of Motherboard System RAM, it's just that Intel wants those folks to be targeting Xeon only systems and thus the more expensive ECC setups.

When Mac Pros move to 64 GB or 128GB you'll see 8GB or 16GB iMac/Macbook/Macbook Pro options. Hell, Apple has intentionally limited the Mac mini RAM options from 4GB -> 2 GB.

This is how they create hardware market segments.
post #64 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

That's an over-generalization If I ever heard one. Nvidia had a temporary problem with their manufacturing process that led to some of their boards having problems, but this has been corrected. As far as running "hot", we'll have to wait and see. These Intel-platform chipsets are brand new and will be using low-power integrated graphics. I think overall this is an excellent development. Nvidia's integrated graphics are many times more powerful than Intels, and have much superior H264/VC1 video decoding and enhancement. Also, because the GPU will be based on the Nvidia standard GPU architecture, this should give the Macbook future compatibility with Snow Leopard's OpenCL.

I track these things rather closely, and I've heard little good said about Nvidia boards other than that they are SLI enabled. Even the newer 8200G (newest Nvidia integrated chipset) runs hot and has a ton of bugs, vs the AMD and Intel chipsets. Performance is good, better than Intel and about on par with AMDs 780G chipset.
post #65 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

People seem to not know that Intel intentionally cripples system RAM options to differentiate between Xeon and Core2Duo lines.

There is nothing keeping the Core2Duo from having 32GB of Motherboard System RAM, it's just that Intel wants those folks to be targeting Xeon only systems and thus the more expensive ECC setups.

When Mac Pros move to 64 GB or 128GB you'll see 8GB or 16GB iMac/Macbook/Macbook Pro options. Hell, Apple has intentionally limited the Mac mini RAM options from 4GB -> 2 GB.

This is how they create hardware market segments.

It isn't that it's intentionally done for nefarious reasons. The memory designs are different, and the Xenon's use different memory as well. If Intel were to have all their chips of the present generation have the ability to use more RAM, they would all be using FB-DIMMS. Would you want that? I don't think so.

Cpu's and their chipsets that are designed for high end use in servers, and expensive workstations, have larger power supplies and cooling systems. Owners of such machines have a larger energy budget, and well as a higher budget in general.

Intel is doing what they have to. To keep costs down for mainstream machines, they have to cut somewhere. The same thing is true for power and heat.

The new Nehalem chips are the same there. The Xeon weight line will have three memory channels, while less expensive machines will have two.

If you want more, you will have to pay for it. Those are the design considerations that must be made.

It isn't that Intel is screwing the lower end user. Rather, it's that Intel is giving them lower cost systems from the cpu and through. That's what people want, and need.
post #66 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

this really would be a killer feature in a laptop. especially for those of us that run multiple virtual machines... i'd snap one up immediately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

Of course. A "pro" who needs it for work will pay any price. And anyone else... doesn't need it.

Plus DDR3 prices are going to fall a long way over the next 12 months.

Yup. If you need portability and 8GB of RAM in a laptop, a sweet MacBook Pro with 8GB would be worth the cost, compared to lugging a Mac Pro around.

Yeah, in about one year's time 4GB RAM sticks will be quite normal, just as 2GB is now, and how 1GB is close to becoming as worthless as 512MB sticks.
post #67 of 131
Here's a reliable tip if ever I heard one:

http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/10/03...ng-october-14/

"My boyfriend who works at Nvidia last night showed me pictures on his iPhone of the unreleased nvidia based MacBook. He said it is scheduled to be released by Apple on October 14th. There is no design changes just speed bumps as well as the new Nvidia based video, getting rid of the Intel based video cards"."

I personally hope it's true that they haven't messed with the design if the black + silver look is where they would have gone. I actually don't think there's anything wrong with the current design.

The news about the new manufacturing process make me wonder about the Macbook Pro images that were posted a while back. They said that the process would allow them to avoid using screws to hold it together.

The case here clearly has screw-holes on it:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._revealed.html

Not sure how they would avoid using screws but I imagine they could have access to some of the main computer parts via the keyboard opening. In the event of a motherboard failure, maybe they will simply seal it in and replace the entire bottom shell. It could be more cost effective to do that than have an engineer unscrew it all, replace the mobo and put it all back again.
post #68 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post

Thats not really good news. If you look in the PC world, Nvidia chipsets are known for running extremely hot, and as being less reliable than Intel chipsets.

This is untrue. Like every hw some models can have problems, but NVidia is famous for better performance. Much more better than the GMA series which can be ok but on OSX we haven't decent drivers.
post #69 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I personally hope it's true that they haven't messed with the design if the black + silver look is where they would have gone. I actually don't think there's anything wrong with the current design.

Me too. I need a new laptop, and I've been waiting for this release, hoping it's not a clone of the 6+ year-old aluminum design.

My BlackBook has been one of the best portables I have ever owned. After numerous metal PowerBooks & MacBook Pros, I love having almost double the WiFi range that the plastic enclosure delivers. I would be totally bummed having to return to aluminum's limited WiFi functionality!
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post #70 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

You don't buy PA Semi who can do what Apple needs to separate their systems from general Intel specs and then turn to Nvidia for the solution.

False.

I don't think that PA Semi/Apple even has a license to produce chipsets for Intel processors. AFAIK, only NVIDIA and SiS have licenses for producing Intel-based chipsets. And AFAIK, PA Semi has no experience with building a competent, ATI/NVIDIA-class mobile graphics processor.

So your comment has little cred.
post #71 of 131
That Apple would use nvidia GPUs on the MacBook: I can believe that. Especially if those GPUs can be effectively used by Snow Leopard in the long run.

That Apple would use nvidia chipsets on the MacBook (or other Macs): I can also belive that, but not the MCP7A-U which is a DESKTOP chipset in the class of Intel's G45 chipset. If Apple was to use a nvidia chipset on the MacBook, it would be the MCP79.

I don't believe Apple would let prototypes or even final MacBooks go outside Apple, if they needed nvidia engineers to work on them, they would have ask them to go to Cupertino under heavy NDA.
post #72 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by pooped View Post

there are a lot of photographers and filmmakers who do on location editing for things like photoshoots, news items, music festivals etc.
the portability of a laptop is very important but also the graphics card.
as it is now I can edit a movie on my macBook, but have to find a macpro to bounce to tape for exporting the video.
if there are better graphics involved, I'll be very tempted to sell the blackBook and buy a new one.

I just hope it won't be the horrible, horrible aluminium shell with a black keyboard.
I really don't like that look..

i definitely agree with you. I want the more portable computer but i also want professional power.
i dont understand why other people dont get this point


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

But then you buy a professional machine, and that has a gpu.

Macbooks aren't meant for professional graphics use of any kind. They are usable for Photoshop, because it doesn't require much there, and the screen resolution helps, but otherwise, no.

Indeed they are made for the every day consumer, but*, There are professionals such as myself who need a smaller notebook and must be very portable. The power can be put into the macbooks without a doubt. Apple for some reason doesnt want to put another small pro model out.

for the record. I think the best laptop design they've released was the 12" powerbook.
post #73 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikir View Post

This is untrue. Like every hw some models can have problems, but NVidia is famous for better performance. Much more better than the GMA series which can be ok but on OSX we haven't decent drivers.

You cannot compare Nvidia's dedicated GPUs to Intel's integrated chipsets. Look at Nvidia integrated chipsets. Then go to a PC forum where they recommend motherboards for a HTPC, nobody will recommend Nvidia, they'll say, Intel or AMD. Why? First of all, as I stated the Nvidia chipsets run hot. For example, the Intel G31 ran about 60ºC, while the Nvidia 8200G chipset would run in the 80ºC range. Sure its better, graphically, but is it a good chipset? Not if you want a notebook that isn't melting down or having the fans running at 5000+ RPM all the time.
post #74 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

If the world is coming to an end, might as well get a sweet rig while I still can.

If I am the only human with a MacBook post-apocalypse, I will rule the world!

Right up until your battery runs out
post #75 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

Intel's PM45 northbridge supports 8GB of RAM. Nvidia's competitor most likely will too, whether it is used by Apple or not. Have fun looking for 4GB SODIMMS.

From what I read online, people did try putting over 4GB into a Intel 965 MacBook but only 4GB were used by the system. Everything above 4GB was ignored. There are limitations in other non-chipset hardware areas, as I understand.
post #76 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

If I am the only human with a MacBook post-apocalypse, I will rule the world!

Quote:
Originally Posted by freakboy View Post

Right up until your battery runs out


If you were the last person on the planet, you could scavenge batteries from all the other MacBooks in the world.

Or you could get a generator and run it off of all the fuel sitting in the tanks at the gas stations around the world.

Or you could set up a solar system to charge your batteries.

Or you could set up a wind turbine, or a water turbine

Or, or, or

I am sure if you were the last person on the planet, you could find a way to provide power for your electronics for the rest of your (lonely) life
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post #77 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by iijuanii View Post

for the record. I think the best laptop design they've released was the 12" powerbook.

My first Mac.

For the record, it's the most complicated computer to service I've ever seen. The suction cups needed for the aluminum iMac are more convenient than that.
post #78 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by probably View Post

My first Mac.

For the record, it's the most complicated computer to service I've ever seen. The suction cups needed for the aluminum iMac are more convenient than that.


well, i was referring to a 12" pro aluminum model. very compact and sleek
post #79 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I actually don't think there's anything wrong with the current design.

Point of interest: Time's coverage of the G4 flat-panel iMac's genesis includes an interview with Ive where he describes showing Jobs his renderings/models of the successor to translucent iMac and Jobs told him that there was "nothing wrong with it," which Ive explains means "total fail."

It was basically a much much thinner version (i.e. LCD instead of cathode tubes), he described.

I'm actually blocked from visiting the link itself right now, but reading about how they arrived at the final design is crazy.

www.time.com/time/covers/1101020114/
post #80 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by iijuanii View Post

well, i was referring to a 12" pro aluminum model. very compact and sleek

...right. The PowerBook.
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