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Apple calls on lawyers in logo spat with Canadian school - Page 2

post #41 of 65
Apple might be reaching a bit, but the blue and the single football shaped leaf look very similar.
post #42 of 65
I thing that Apple should not get so mad over VSBT since they have Macs and soon they will have iPhones. I think that Apple should just try to encourage them to buy more of there products and see what idea's VSBT has more Apple.
post #43 of 65
If you don't act on infringement you can lose your right to your trademark. So, maybe Apple is being a bully, or maybe they are doing what they have to do to maintain their trademark.

Quoted from wikipedia:
Trademarks rights must be maintained through actual lawful use of the trademark. These rights will cease if a mark is not actively used for a period of time, normally 5 years in most jurisdictions. In the case of a trademark registration, failure to actively use the mark in the lawful course of trade, or to enforce the registration in the event of infringement, may also expose the registration itself to become liable for an application for the removal from the register after a certain period of time on the grounds of "non-use". It is not necessary for a trademark owner to take enforcement action against all infringement if it can be shown that the owner perceived the infringement to be minor and inconsequential. This is designed to prevent owners from continually being tied up in litigation for fear of cancellation.

So the question is, is this minor and inconsequential.
post #44 of 65
From article.

Quote:
Christopher Boag, vice president of VSBT, said he was in "total shock" when he received Apple's threat, arguing that the apple is a "traditional representation of education." He maintains the school came up with the "100 percent original" design through "a flow and a process," and never once has anyone confused it the Apple logo since its inception back in 2005.

Looks to me as though the "through a flow and a process" consisted of taking the Apple logo and slowly making changes to it until they think it no longer looks like the Appple logo they started with. First they took the "byte" out. Then they added another hump at the top. Slightly change the angle and shape of the leaf. And finally added the moutain and another color in the middle. If they had done this before Apple computer switched from the old multi-color apple logo to the new single color one, they would have a case. But it's a stretch to call the VSBT logo "100 percent original" when Apple been using their new logo for over 5 years before VSBT supposely "designed" their's.
post #45 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchalaZeal View Post

Highly ironic, and somewhat hypocritical on Apple's part, considering it was once on the receiving end of a similar claim from Apple Records/Apple Corps Ltd.

Hm.

And Apple Computers actually met with Apple Corps. and settled out of court. They came up with a mutually agreed contract as to when, where and how each of the Apples (Computers and Corp) can use their name and logo.
post #46 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There is a significant difference in the way the Apple Computer, Inc. and Apple Corps logos looked. And Apple wasn't in any music-related business at the time, while this company is education and technology.



Of course you don't comprehend the phrase "similar situation" that he mentions. Nowhere did he mention a logo. And this company is a school!!!
post #47 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Apple might be reaching a bit, but the blue and the single football shaped leaf look very similar.

A little too much like Stewie Griffin's head.
post #48 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post

And Apple Computers actually met with Apple Corps. and settled out of court. They came up with a mutually agreed contract as to when, where and how each of the Apples (Computers and Corp) can use their name and logo.

They settled big time cause they didn't want to piss off Yoko Ono- let's get real here.
post #49 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Of course you don't comprehend the phrase "similar situation" that he mentions. Nowhere did he mention a logo. And this company is a school!!!

It's amazing how your mind works. If your comments on this forum are anything like how you interact with the rest of society it would be a spectacle to watch. Perhaps you should get your own show: The Teckstud Sad-But-True Comedy Hour.
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post #50 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It's amazing how your mind works. If your comments on this forum are anything like how you interact with the rest of society it would be a spectacle to watch. Perhaps you should get your own show: The Teckstud Sad-But-True Comedy Hour.

It's quite appalling the comments you make.
It's all about the Solipism-Sloppy-Self Serving Show.
post #51 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

They settled big time cause they didn't want to piss off Yoko Ono- let's get real here.

They settled for $80,000. Though it was rumored to be in the tens of millions.

They settled again in 1991 when Apple Corp. accused Apple Computers of entering the "music business" with MIDI on Macs. Which they saw as a violation of the original agreement they drew it in 1981. Apple Computer paid Apple Corp. around $26 million for a new contract that re-defined "music business".

Apple Corp sued again in 2003 over the iTunes Store. But this time Apple Computers (Inc.) prevailed as the iTunes store was allowable under the redrawn 1991 contract.
post #52 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post

They settled for $80,000. Though it was rumored to be in the tens of millions.

They settled again in 1991 when Apple Corp. accused Apple Computers of entering the "music business" with MIDI on Macs. Which they saw as a violation of the original agreement they drew it in 1981. Apple Computer paid Apple Corp. around $26 million for a new contract that re-defined "music business".

Apple Corp sued again in 2003 over the iTunes Store. But this time Apple Computers (Inc.) prevailed as the iTunes store was allowable under the redrawn 1991 contract.

Thanks but this article states another $50 -$100 million on top of that original $26mil.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020501387.html
post #53 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Thanks but this article states another $50 -$100 million on top of that original $26mil.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020501387.html

That was in 2007 when Apple Inc. bought all rights to the "Apple" name and logo from Apple Corp. It was not a settlement as there was no lawsuit involve. What it settled was any more disputes these two "Apples" would have going forward. Apple Corp. must now seek permission from Apple Inc. if they want to use the Apple name and logo for any other purpose besides what's already agreed upon. At the time Apple Inc. had over $15 Billion in cash. $100 Million for all rights to the "Apple" name and logo was a good investment.

I see it as a from of "payola" for the exclusive rights to the Beatles catalog when it becomes available online.
post #54 of 65

deleted


Edited by kellya74u - 7/24/13 at 10:54am
post #55 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellya74u View Post

IBut you gotta ask yourself one question....does Apple have an agreement with Prosoft engineering for Apple to create the iTunes "genius logo, as it looks rather similar to Prosoft's Mac disk repair Utililty, "Drive Genius."

Some questions that come to mind...
  1. How does the excessive prior art of the atom symbol play into this?
  2. Is the Genius symbol on the iPod or in iTunes easily mistaken for the Prosoft product. Can the Prosoft product be mistaken for Apple's Genius?
  3. Has Prosoft trademarked their product's logo? Has Prosoft ever defended it's logo from being used by others?
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post #56 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addison Huy View Post

I thing that Apple should not get so mad over VSBT since they have Macs and soon they will have iPhones. I think that Apple should just try to encourage them to buy more of there products and see what idea's VSBT has more Apple.

It doesn't work that way.
post #57 of 65
deleted

Edited by kellya74u - 7/24/13 at 10:57am
post #58 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellya74u View Post

Most Mac users are familiar with both & have looked them up, but I'll help you out...

#1 view site- http://www.prosoftengineering.com/pr...ive_genius.php
#2 get iTunes (Mac or PC)
#3 launch itunes
#4 compare the images
#5 answer questions #1 & 2
#6 view site in #1 & answer question #3
#7 conduct research & provide the answer to question #4, in terms us regular folk can understand.
I would have posted the images in the forum but didn't want to get baited into a copyright/trademark violation & have Apple after me too.

You can show them for educational purposes, as long as no money is being made from the use of it. Otherwise, you must ask.

For news, it's different. You can make money from the article, or broadcast, without asking permission. It's done all the time.
post #59 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellya74u View Post

Most Mac users are familiar with both & have looked them up, but I'll help you out...

#1 view site- http://www.prosoftengineering.com/pr...ive_genius.php
#2 get iTunes (Mac or PC)
#3 launch itunes
#4 compare the images
#5 answer questions #1 & 2
#6 view site in #1 & answer question #3
#7 conduct research & provide the answer to question #4, in terms us regular folk can understand.
I would have posted the images in the forum but didn't want to get baited into a copyright/trademark violation & have Apple after me too.

The basic symbol for an atom is non-tradmarkable. You need to make it significantly different from a standard atom symbol. Prosoft added a hard drive (?) where the nucleus would be in a basic atom symbol. Thus they can most likely tradmark it. But the basic atom symbol can still be used by anyone. Apple most likely can not tradmark their atom symbol unless it includes the word "Genius" with it. As their atom symbol is not unique enough and is nearly identical to all atom symbols being used out there.


In case you're not familar with a basic atom symbol

http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...num=1&ct=title

The same for an "apple". Apple Inc. does not have exclusive rights for an image of an "apple" as a logo. An apple by itself is non-trademarkable. It is only when you change the image of the apple in a unique way that makes it trademakable. Apple Inc. apple has a certain shape, leaf, no stem, color and of course they took a "byte" out it to make it unique. Thus they have a trademark on their logo. Not a trademark on an apple.

And Apple's trademark is for the image of the apple by itself. It doesn't have to include any words with it. And that's the sign of a great logo. When all it takes is the logo for everyone to know that it represents Apple Inc. It's conveys "Apple Inc." in all languages. Other great logos are, the Chevolet sign, RCA Nipper the dog, Mercedes "cross", Olympics "rings", Columbia Pictures "torch lady", and the blue and white "badge" of BMW.
post #60 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post

That was in 2007 when Apple Inc. bought all rights to the "Apple" name and logo from Apple Corp. It was not a settlement as there was no lawsuit involve. What it settled was any more disputes these two "Apples" would have going forward. Apple Corp. must now seek permission from Apple Inc. if they want to use the Apple name and logo for any other purpose besides what's already agreed upon. At the time Apple Inc. had over $15 Billion in cash. $100 Million for all rights to the "Apple" name and logo was a good investment.

I see it as a from of "payola" for the exclusive rights to the Beatles catalog when it becomes available online.

Very interesting- thanks for the clarification. The pecking order reversed.
post #61 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Very interesting- thanks for the clarification. The pecking order reversed.

Of course, we don't know if Apple will get exclusive rights to the catalog, we can just hope.
post #62 of 65
The funny thing is that they did a feature on this on the news here and they interviewed the head guy from the school in a room full of iMac's at the school.
post #63 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel0418 View Post

Both apple and this guy I quoted are ridiculous. Come on first of all the school doesn't threaten your company or provide any competition at all. Second the apple is completely different. The colors are different. The shape is different. The leaf is tilted different. The apple doesn't even have a bite out of it. We get it apple wants to protect their logo which is fine but The Curpentino based company does not own the apple. The apple is a fruit you cannot control all variations of an apple that is absurd. Apple you should be worrying about fixing your crappy products and all of their problems not worrying about the fact that the fruit came before the company.

I agree with you Daniel. The logos are different and they are not a threat to Apple. Plus they're supporting Apple by buying up their products! Hey, if the similarities of their logo and their usage of Apple's products make people associate them a bit, fantastic! All the better for both of them I say.
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post #64 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel0418 View Post

Both apple and this guy I quoted are ridiculous. Come on first of all the school doesn't threaten your company or provide any competition at all. Second the apple is completely different. The colors are different. The shape is different. The leaf is tilted different. The apple doesn't even have a bite out of it. We get it apple wants to protect their logo which is fine but The Curpentino based company does not own the apple. The apple is a fruit you cannot control all variations of an apple that is absurd. Apple you should be worrying about fixing your crappy products and all of their problems not worrying about the fact that the fruit came before the company.

You're analyzing the logos in the wrong way. There can be a hundred differences and it doesn't mean a thing if there's just one similarity that can cause a confusion as to what company logo it is. You can create a logo in the shape pear, that is purple with three leaves on top. But if it has a "byte" taken out of it on the right side, chances are you would be in violation of Apple's trademark. (At the least you would not be able to use it with a tech company.) That's because the first thing anyone would think of is Apple Inc. when they see it. And in reality, no company in their right mind would want a logo that makes people think of some other company first. It's not just how different the logo is. It also matters what company people think of when they first see it.

That's why the company (VSBT) rep is full of crock when he said that they came up with a "100% percent original logo through a flow and a process." The first thing you would want in a logo is for it to be different from all the other logos out there. The last thing you want in your logo is for people to think of another company when they see it. If you own a restaurant chain, would you use an apple in you logo? No matter how different you make it (the apple in the logo), people are going to first think of Applebee.

A logo is meant to identify a company with just a glance. That's the purpose of having one. If you have a logo that people has to stare at in order to try to figure out whose logo it is, it's time for a new logo. That's why Apple Inc. (any company really) is so adamant (and rightly so) about protecting their logo. It does Apple no good if people have to stare at a logo for any length of time before they figure out whether or not it represents Apple Inc. It is easy for anyone to sit here and compare the two logos side by side and come to the conclusion that they don't look alike. But glance at the window of VSBT while driving down the street. Can you tell for sure that it's not the Apple Inc. logo? (With out having to stop and look at your iPod. ) What happens when you receive a fax from VSBT with the logo on it and it's now in black and white? Will it first remind you of Apple Inc.?

And of course there may be a reason why VBST would want people to think Apple Inc. when people see their logo. It makes it seem that some how Apple Inc. is endorsing their products. Along with Microsoft and Abode and the others logos they paster around theirs. They made it difficult to tell where one logo ends and another begins. Here in the US, our sue happy lawyers would already be on them with a class action suit for falsely misrepresenting who's endorsing their products. And Apple would be named in the suit because they knowingly allowed VSBT to use a logo that they knew could be easily confused with their Apple Inc. logo.
post #65 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post

You're analyzing the logos in the wrong way.
[...]
And Apple would be named in the suit because they knowingly allowed VSBT to use a logo that they knew could be easily confused with their Apple Inc. logo.

Great post!
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