or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › How Has The Wall St. Meltdown Affected You?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

How Has The Wall St. Meltdown Affected You?

post #1 of 199
Thread Starter 
Anyone invested heavily? I myself have "lost" a few thousand dollars. My retirement is a pension that I believe is secure in the long term. My 403b and college fund (TAP 529) for my daughter are both down 20%. In fact, my 403b is down 10% TODAY. Wow.

I'm mostly long-term, so I'm OK. That said, I had considered liquidating my 403b at least partially to shore up some cash for the next 12 months. But now...I don't know. I purchased a home and I've known that the first year is going to be the toughest (long story, but true). I think with the way things are I'd be better working out another arrangement to cover for the year.

Your thoughts?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #2 of 199
All I know is that I've been getting shares for cheaper than usual.
post #3 of 199
My stocks lost 25%, so I chickened out on buying a house (we were set to make an offer the day after the dow dropped 777 points, so I said forget it for a year or so).

I still seem to be employable, though - just landed a job starting next Monday.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #4 of 199
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #5 of 199
Don't sell that barrel.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #6 of 199
It made me realize even more strongly that McCain is not ready to be president, as he will do anything and everything to not talk about the issue. His lame attempt to deal with the problem didn't achieve anything, either, and, well... Part of me wants to laugh at his antics, another part is scared at the prospect that he is still as high as he is in the polls even after the crisis and thus still has a small chance of gaining the WH.

---

Personally, I don't own stock, never have, never will. I make plenty of money working a good job and don't need the risks involved with stocks.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #7 of 199
My stocks are off >20% than when I bought them four years ago...

Not real happy about it, waiting until I think the market has bottomed out to push in more money -- I need to see that the fed has made a rate cut, banks that were lost have found buyers, assets that were frozen due to the illiquidity get moving again before I even think about buying. Probably one-two months...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
post #8 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

It made me realize even more strongly that McCain is not ready to be president, as he will do anything and everything to not talk about the issue. His lame attempt to deal with the problem didn't achieve anything, either, and, well... Part of me wants to laugh at his antics, another part is scared at the prospect that he is still as high as he is in the polls even after the crisis and thus still has a small chance of gaining the WH.

---

Personally, I don't own stock, never have, never will. I make plenty of money working a good job and don't need the risks involved with stocks.

Not even for retirement?
post #9 of 199
wow... "lost" over 100k in value from one month ago. Oh well.
I've no need to liquidate any of that stuff, and I'm pretty confident that it'll still be way ahead of the game 15 or 20 years down the road.
Stocks/funds are a long-term thing for me... I'd go nuts trying to "day-trade" my way to a fortune.

But from a political standpoint, I don't think EITHER Obama or McCain have any idea what to do about this imagined "crisis". I still know people who are going to Disney World, who are buying new cars (NOT economy cars either), who are moving up to larger houses.... So it seems from my viewpoint to be about 10% real economic downturn/correction and about 90% hype by media/politicians.
Our beloved politicians managed to increase our national deficit by an additional 700B overnight... that spending was entirely OUTside the "budget." Now they're scrambling to see how much of that 700B they can bring "home" as pork!!! (I can only imagine how much of it it will be in the form of high-interest loans to people who shouldn't be borrowing money to begin with )
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
post #10 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

wow... "lost" over 100k in value from one month ago. Oh well.
I've no need to liquidate any of that stuff, and I'm pretty confident that it'll still be way ahead of the game 15 or 20 years down the road.
Stocks/funds are a long-term thing for me... I'd go nuts trying to "day-trade" my way to a fortune.

But from a political standpoint, I don't think EITHER Obama or McCain have any idea what to do about this imagined "crisis". I still know people who are going to Disney World, who are buying new cars (NOT economy cars either), who are moving up to larger houses.... So it seems from my viewpoint to be about 10% real economic downturn/correction and about 90% hype by media/politicians.
Our beloved politicians managed to increase our national deficit by an additional 700B overnight... that spending was entirely OUTside the "budget." Now they're scrambling to see how much of that 700B they can bring "home" as pork!!! (I can only imagine how much of it it will be in the form of high-interest loans to people who shouldn't be borrowing money to begin with )

Sounds like you are one of the well-off that wouldn't be seeing the effects of this economic downturn directly...

Doesn't mean a damn thing though for the 750000 people who lost their jobs this year and the hundreds of thousands more who weren't able to find work...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
post #11 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

Not even for retirement?

Interesting remark, is that a common thing to do in the US?
post #12 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutch pear View Post

Interesting remark, is that a common thing to do in the US?

I don't know how common or uncommon, but it's certainly smart to invest in stocks for long-term investments like retirement.
post #13 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by dutch pear View Post

Interesting remark, is that a common thing to do in the US?

Common?

Yeah... investments be they in the stock market or otherwise are the only real way to save for retirement. Putting money away in a savings account doesn't generate enough growth to support any sort of lifestyle...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
post #14 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Doesn't mean a damn thing though for the 750000 people who lost their jobs this year and the hundreds of thousands more who weren't able to find work...

Has there EVER been a year in which people didn't loose jobs?

As for not finding work... well... God forbid they take something a little less glamorous than they had hoped for! Work is easy to come by.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
post #15 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

I don't know how common or uncommon, but it's certainly smart to invest in stocks for long-term investments like retirement.

Ah, I see. Where I live most (average income) people just take part in one of the national pension funds that guarantee their income after retiring. Owning stocks as an individual is really uncommon. Although some people do invest through bank-run stock funds, most find the risk factor too scary.
post #16 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

Has there EVER been a year in which people didn't loose jobs?

As for not finding work... well... God forbid they take something a little less glamorous than they had hoped for! Work is easy to come by.

Perhaps you don't understand what I mean by lost jobs -- the economy has reduced the available jobs by 750000. That means that 750000 people cannot be employed that could be employed before this year not to mention the fact that each month more people enter the workforce and there are NOT jobs being created for them.

Now, I can understand why someone who doesn't blink at losing 100K wouldn't be concerned about the economy -- but this doesn't mean that it is easy to find jobs that pay enough to live...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
post #17 of 199
This is the largest tax ever paid by US citizens.
The Bush TAX = 2500 point loss in the stock market = around $ 5 trillion
$ 5 trillion - 1 trillion for war - 1 trillion bailout - 10 trillion debt (before raise) = 17 trillion + 1.4 trillion surplus from Clinton =
$ 18.4 TRILLION The single largest tax increase in the history of mankind!! wowsers!!


I have not lost anything. My windmills are still turning, the sun is still shining.
250k FDIC insurance is a good thing.
post #18 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Perhaps you don't understand what I mean by lost jobs -- the economy has reduced the available jobs by 750000. That means that 750000 people cannot be employed that could be employed before this year not to mention the fact that each month more people enter the workforce and there are NOT jobs being created for them.

Now, I can understand why someone who doesn't blink at losing 100K wouldn't be concerned about the economy -- but this doesn't mean that it is easy to find jobs that pay enough to live...

Could it be the old, "I'm alright Jack, why aren't you" mentality.

Or,
http://www.financialpost.com/news/story.html?id=866284
Quote:
AIG spent US$440,000 on spa, resort after bailout, lawmakers say

Why can't they see this really doesn't look good.

For some people it's just all about them isn't it.
post #19 of 199
I had to start selling my body to attractive co-eds at the University of Houston campus....



... sometimes.... more than one at a time...

proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #20 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post

wow... "lost" over 100k in value from one month ago. Oh well.
I've no need to liquidate any of that stuff, and I'm pretty confident that it'll still be way ahead of the game 15 or 20 years down the road.
Stocks/funds are a long-term thing for me... I'd go nuts trying to "day-trade" my way to a fortune.

But from a political standpoint, I don't think EITHER Obama or McCain have any idea what to do about this imagined "crisis". I still know people who are going to Disney World, who are buying new cars (NOT economy cars either), who are moving up to larger houses.... So it seems from my viewpoint to be about 10% real economic downturn/correction and about 90% hype by media/politicians.
Our beloved politicians managed to increase our national deficit by an additional 700B overnight... that spending was entirely OUTside the "budget." Now they're scrambling to see how much of that 700B they can bring "home" as pork!!! (I can only imagine how much of it it will be in the form of high-interest loans to people who shouldn't be borrowing money to begin with )

I'm running about 1/2 of your paper losses, and agree 100% about this manufactured crisis. Ron Paul pretty much told it like it was going to happen and was ignored as usual. I'll be supporting any and every effort to replace every member of Congress (with the exception of Paul and a few others) and the House of Representatives.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #21 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

I had to start selling my body to attractive co-eds at the University of Houston campus....



... sometimes.... more than one at a time...


Shouldn't you be smiling instead?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #22 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I'm running about 1/2 of your paper losses, and agree 100% about this manufactured crisis. Ron Paul pretty much told it like it was going to happen and was ignored as usual. I'll be supporting any and every effort to replace every member of Congress (with the exception of Paul and a few others) and the House of Representatives.

How did they manufacture it? And why is it affecting multiple countries? (Illuminati?)
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #23 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

This is the largest tax ever paid by US citizens.
The Bush TAX = 2500 point loss in the stock market = around $ 5 trillion
$ 5 trillion - 1 trillion for war - 1 trillion bailout - 10 trillion debt (before raise) = 17 trillion + 1.4 trillion surplus from Clinton =
$ 18.4 TRILLION The single largest tax increase in the history of mankind!! wowsers!!


I have not lost anything. My windmills are still turning, the sun is still shining.
250k FDIC insurance is a good thing.

The $250K FDIC insurance is irrelevant, it's a psychological band-aid. The Fed is basically printing the money to pay for this trillion dollar bailout, so every dollar you own is devalued. Economically speaking, this is a Depression-level event that may affect the US for a decade or more. It's really the currency devaluation that is at the core of the market tumbling further and further.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #24 of 199
Well as you may know I work at a local college and for some of us our retirement annuity if based on TIAA CREF. So it rides the stock market. I know since the 90's it's decreased and I'm afraid to look now. I hear a lot of people rethinking retirement.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #25 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Perhaps you don't understand what I mean by lost jobs -- the economy has reduced the available jobs by 750000. That means that 750000 people cannot be employed that could be employed before this year not to mention the fact that each month more people enter the workforce and there are NOT jobs being created for them.

Now, I can understand why someone who doesn't blink at losing 100K wouldn't be concerned about the economy -- but this doesn't mean that it is easy to find jobs that pay enough to live...

As long as it's possible to cut back on one's spending, including selling the house and moving to a cheaper state, it is possible to find a job to cover expenses. Spending is not a constant and there are usually alternatives.

On the other hand, if one is hit with catastrophic medical expenses, no job will help anyway.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #26 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Shouldn't you be smiling instead?

Not if he's "doing" co-eds so "attractive" that they have to PAY for it.......





eye
bee
BEE
Reply
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
post #27 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

How did they manufacture it? And why is it affecting multiple countries? (Illuminati?)

Sorry, I'm not into fringe conspiracy theories. The crises was manufactured thanks to the Fed creating "free money" for the financial markets, which in turn made questionable loans to people of questionable credit-worthiness, which helped to collapse the overheated housing sector which had been on a unsustainable growth curve, which became a bubble. Once the bubble burst, the loans came due and they could not be paid. It was a house of cards created by the Fed.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #28 of 199
Apart from the same kind of 401(k) hit everyone is taking, no effect so far except some tension about our new house. We started the process of building a new house months ago, our old house has already been sold (we were sooooo lucky selling it quickly, to the first people who looked at our house, for only a few K under asking), but now we're living in a crappy apartment waiting for our new house to be finished.

It doesn't seem very likely anything can screw this up any more, with only about two weeks left until completion. Our mortgage has already been approved, the only conditional elements being the certificate of occupancy and an insurance binder for the property once the last details are completed. With the passage of the the bailout bill, the over-$100K amount sitting in the bank from the sale of the old house is now insured up to $250K.

I still find myself worrying, however, that a major crash between now and when we close could screw the whole deal -- the bank where we have the mortgage approved collapses, the builder goes bankrupt, I lose my job, etc.

All I ask is that the financial world hold steady for another 2-3 weeks, then it can go to hell if it really feels like it must.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
post #29 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerLurker View Post

Not if he's "doing" co-eds so "attractive" that they have to PAY for it.......






As Ted Danson's character in the TV show "Cheers" once said, and I'm paraphrasing..."We're all seventeen in the dark".

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #30 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Well as you may know I work at a local college and for some of us our retirement annuity if based on TIAA CREF. So it rides the stock market. I know since the 90's it's decreased and I'm afraid to look now. I hear a lot of people rethinking retirement.

I'm also on TIAA-CREF, and I'm 100% stocks. But I've got a couple of decades left, and I figure I'm just buying cheap right now. (And have been for the past 7 years...)

But I have a regular poker game with a group of mostly economists (bad idea, by the way), and several of them are in their 50s and will retire in a few years. About a month ago, a couple of them were talking about how they were pulling out of all their stocks funds. One of them was 100% in stocks and took it all out and put it in 100% money market/cash. I thought it sounded stupid, because you're always told you're supposed to gradually change over. But it seems like pretty damn good idea now.
post #31 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

The $250K FDIC insurance is irrelevant, it's a psychological band-aid. The Fed is basically printing the money to pay for this trillion dollar bailout, so every dollar you own is devalued. Economically speaking, this is a Depression-level event that may affect the US for a decade or more. It's really the currency devaluation that is at the core of the market tumbling further and further.


I agree, inflation is rampant. I have a few 100,000,000 Reichsmark notes from Nazi Germany. They bought a liter of milk at the time (if you could find it). We might see some of $ notes like this soon.

250k insurance is very relevant! As for me, I had run out and pulled money from my accounts that were higher than 100k. This put more strain on the banks, many people did as I did. I would have not reacted this way if the FDIC was already insuring accounts larger than 100k.
post #32 of 199
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

It made me realize even more strongly that McCain is not ready to be president, as he will do anything and everything to not talk about the issue. His lame attempt to deal with the problem didn't achieve anything, either, and, well... Part of me wants to laugh at his antics, another part is scared at the prospect that he is still as high as he is in the polls even after the crisis and thus still has a small chance of gaining the WH.

---

Personally, I don't own stock, never have, never will. I make plenty of money working a good job and don't need the risks involved with stocks.

One might say McCain doesn't get it, but....does Obama get it any more? I don't see a credible argument that he does. In fact, he's proposing tax increases, which cannot possibly help the situation. In our current predicament one must ask: Why raise taxes? To deal withe deficit? Well guess what...it's not the time for that and the deficit is not the root of the problem. To fund new programs? We can't be doing that right now, either. We need not tax increases, but spending cuts. What other reason is there...class warfare?



Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Sounds like you are one of the well-off that wouldn't be seeing the effects of this economic downturn directly...

Doesn't mean a damn thing though for the 750000 people who lost their jobs this year and the hundreds of thousands more who weren't able to find work...

Unemployment is still really low. At least for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

This is the largest tax ever paid by US citizens.
The Bush TAX = 2500 point loss in the stock market = around $ 5 trillion
$ 5 trillion - 1 trillion for war - 1 trillion bailout - 10 trillion debt (before raise) = 17 trillion + 1.4 trillion surplus from Clinton =
$ 18.4 TRILLION The single largest tax increase in the history of mankind!! wowsers!!


I have not lost anything. My windmills are still turning, the sun is still shining.
250k FDIC insurance is a good thing.

Glad to see we're not being hyper partisan!


Quote:
Originally Posted by shetline View Post

Apart from the same kind of 401(k) hit everyone is taking, no effect so far except some tension about our new house. We started the process of building a new house months ago, our old house has already been sold (we were sooooo lucky selling it quickly, to the first people who looked at our house, for only a few K under asking), but now we're living in a crappy apartment waiting for our new house to be finished.

It doesn't seem very likely anything can screw this up any more, with only about two weeks left until completion. Our mortgage has already been approved, the only conditional elements being the certificate of occupancy and an insurance binder for the property once the last details are completed. With the passage of the the bailout bill, the over-$100K amount sitting in the bank from the sale of the old house is now insured up to $250K.

I still find myself worrying, however, that a major crash between now and when we close could screw the whole deal -- the bank where we have the mortgage approved collapses, the builder goes bankrupt, I lose my job, etc.

All I ask is that the financial world hold steady for another 2-3 weeks, then it can go to hell if it really feels like it must.

I think you'll be OK. Care to say who the lender is? As long as they don't fold or you don't have big credit changes, you should be good.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #33 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Unemployment is still really low. At least for now.

6.1% seems pretty high to me, look at this graph for comparison



And also, the trend it the worrysome bit.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #34 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

6.1% seems pretty high to me, look at this graph for comparison


It's amazing how someone can construct charts that make the point they want to make. What say we look at this data over a longer period of time:

http://www.miseryindex.us/urbymonth....=Create+Report
post #35 of 199
it us not the stock=market as such, but I have been trying to sell music gear that I could ordinarly sell easily, I haven't had a buyer in a long time, except a Magnatone speaker that I just sold for way less than usual.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #36 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

It's amazing how someone can construct charts that make the point they want to make. What say we look at this data over a longer period of time:

http://www.miseryindex.us/urbymonth....=Create+Report

6.1% seems pretty high with your data also - the only times it was higher were during extremely sucky periods of the 70s and 80s.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #37 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Unemployment is still really low. At least for now.

I don't have to point out that unemployment is a measure of the number of people seeking jobs which is highly dependent on how confident they feel they can get jobs...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
post #38 of 199
Since I live in a paid-off house and don't owe a dime to anyone, I'm still okay so far.

However, it's time that we need to "think way out of the box" to solve this problem permanently. A major factor in this problem is our current income tax system--it affects ALL your economic decisions, and some parts of the Federal tax code actually contributed mightly to the sub-prime mortgage meltdown in the first place.

It's time we ditch our income tax system and start all over again with a consumption-based tax system such as the proposed FairTax. Since under FairTax there are no taxes on income, bank savings interest, dividends or even estate, it would 1) encourage Americans to actually save money and 2) return several trillion US dollars held by American citizens and financial companies outside the country just to avoid the IRS, which would provide a spectacular liquidity injection that would at once stop the collapse of our stock markets and provide the basis for creating new lines of credit and loans. And since there are no taxes on capital gains, interest income and dividend income, it would encourage foreigners to invest in the USA because it essentially creates the world's largest tax haven.

(getting off soapbox)
post #39 of 199
[aside]Oh, god, another one[/aside]
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
post #40 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

[aside]Oh, god, another one[/aside]

Lives in a paid off house and doesn't owe anyone anything.

The old "I'm alright Jack, why aren't you" philosophy.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › How Has The Wall St. Meltdown Affected You?