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How Has The Wall St. Meltdown Affected You? - Page 5

post #161 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

You should teach economics at a University. I'm always surprised how granular your understanding of all this is. I may not always agree with your conclusions, but I do find I learn a lot about the details from your posts.

Ok. Gotta put my partisan hat back on...

I agree. I always enjoy listening to Nick's comments on economics.

uh. wait. Um.

That is, WHEN HE'S NOT HATING AMERICA!
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #162 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Thanks. That's what I thought. My point, in response to Floorjack, is that you can't just say "well, if the subprime thing hadn't exploded, the bubble would've continued" when, in fact, the subprime thing was a big chunk of what made the bubble bubble.

Toil and trouble.

Well no. If the subprime mortgages had not been offered there would have been no bubble to pop.
post #163 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Well no. If the subprime mortgages had not been offered there would have been no bubble to pop.

WTF are you even talking about anymore?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #164 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

WTF are you even talking about anymore?

I'll try to explain it so that even you can understand it. What I'm talking about is the idea that had there been no subprime mortgages to make the amount that one can borrow go higher and higher then house prices would not have sky rocketed like they did and thus there would not have been a housing bubble. There wouldn't have been a gold rush of new homes and thus no over supply that later lead to a crash.
post #165 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

I'll try to explain it so that even you can understand it.

Just preserving this for posterity.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #166 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

I'll try to explain it so that even you can understand it.

Explain it so even I, a worse dumbass than he is, can understand it.
--Johnny
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--Johnny
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post #167 of 199
Here are two very good discussions of how all this happened. But then, despite lundy's humility, I suspect I'm a far bigger dumbass.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #168 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Here are two very good discussions of how all this happened. But then, despite lundy's humility, I suspect I'm a far bigger dumbass.

Two very good hours except that Ira left out the role of the government in the whole thing. No mention of Fan/Fred or CRA? I guess they don't want to bite the hand that feeds them?
post #169 of 199
Oh and only NPR could make us feel sorry for a homeowner that gets a $500K home equity loan to pay for something that ... he tell us about.
post #170 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Two very good hours except that Ira left out the role of the government in the whole thing. No mention of Fan/Fred or CRA? I guess they don't want to bite the hand that feeds them?

It's true; failure to adhere to bullshit wingnut talking points equals propaganda. Which is why ya'll are well advised to finish your complete withdrawal from consensual reality and gather round the Fox 'n blogger hearth.

Fox just picked up Glenn Beck, so the distillation proceeds apace.

And here's the payoff: in the '12 election, you can run a campaign that appears to most Americans to be obscure performance art, complete with a secret, made-up language.

I mean, how fun will that be? We can watch, mystified, as angry mobs go berserk at rallies when the candidate says things about "home town jump shots" and "the revenge of Yellow Jim."

I am so there.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #171 of 199
And the great Ronald Reagan.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #172 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

First, they didn't foreclose on a home worth $109,000. They forclosured on a home worth $49,000 with a $109,000 loan on it.

It was sold by the bank for $20,000 because it likely was not left in new or sellable condition or else the bank would not have left $30k on the table. The bank is not going to rehab it because they are in the lending business, not the remodeling business. The bank does service the mortgage or else they wouldn't have been able to foreclose.

The family gets to walk away from an overpriced asset with no debtors prison or other nonsense hanging over their head. There is no judgement or garnishment of their future earnings. They get a little mark on their credit.

In two or three years after renting a house at a reasonable price rather than paying too much for an overpriced mortgage, they now buy a home with their repaired credit and with 20% down. They will probably pay a whole quarter to half percent more on their interest rate as "punishment" for their sins.

I don't know about you but I would much rather pay 6.5% on a $50k note than 6% on a $109k note.

God Bless America indeed.

They foreclosed on a home with a $109,000 mortgage on it that was affordable before the interest rates doubled, tripled.

But like so many foreclosures, there was no recourse to renegotiate because there was no single mortgage holder.

The house was sold at auction for $20,000 and listed by the new owners at $49,000.
Likely not in sellable condition is spin, you don't know this as fact.

Do they get to walk away?
Deficiency doesn't come into play because the bank lost money in the public auction?
http://www.foreclosures.com/pages/state_laws.asp

Defaulting on a mortgage in the States takes only two or three years to repair your credit?

You didn't reply to renters caught in all this.
There are renters that wanted to buy the property that landlords defaulted on but banks weren't interested.
They were told to vacate and bid when the property is auctioned off.
Why?
In whose interest would it be to gamble, in a sluggish market, that an auction would recover a significant portion of the loan?

Makes you wonder who's gobbling up these homes at fire sale prices.
post #173 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Makes you wonder who's gobbling up these homes at fire sale prices.

I wouldn't be surprised if Nick picked up a couple.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #174 of 199
Actually I'm a bit concerned about Nick... maybe the reason he disappeared is because he really went off the deep end... I don't mean in his usual way, but in a seriously extreme way.

Maybe he lost his nest egg in this crisis and his head exploded like Robot Santa trying to logic his way out of the fact that Bush and the Republicans are fully to blame.

Maybe he finally figured out that he was wrong this whole time.

Maybe he simply couldn't handle anything at all anymore.
post #175 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

I wouldn't be surprised if Nick picked up a couple.

I've heard a number of fellow Canadians have made the trek south to pick up some deals.

I don't have the cash for such endeavours though.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #176 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I've heard a number of fellow Canadians have made the trek south to pick up some deals.

I don't have the cash for such endeavours though.

Cash? Who needs that?



I think I would pick up a vacation place if I had some cash for a down payment. Maybe I can take out a CDS on my wife's credit cards? It seems the housing market may take years to recover fully so single family homes may not be a good investment right now.
post #177 of 199
Could this be true?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/21/op...1stein.html?hp
Quote:
Although there are many things to like about the governments plan, the failure to suspend dividends is not one of them. These dividends, if they are paid at current levels, will redirect more than $25 billion of the $125 billion to shareholders in the next year alone. Taxpayers have been told that their money is required because of an urgent need to rebuild bank capital, yet a significant fraction of this money will wind up in shareholders pockets and thus be unavailable to plug the large capital hole on the banks balance sheets.

So, as much as 1/5 of taxpayer funds will go to shareholders, with government approval.

Forget that investing is a gamble, apparently some are above this concept.

Like the AIG fiasco, it's business as usual.

God Bless the real America.
post #178 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Cash? Who needs that?

I think I would pick up a vacation place if I had some cash for a down payment. Maybe I can take out a CDS on my wife's credit cards? It seems the housing market may take years to recover fully so single family homes may not be a good investment right now.


But isn't that the kind of thinking that got the world into this mess?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #179 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Could this be true?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/21/op...1stein.html?hp

So, as much as 1/5 of taxpayer funds will go to shareholders, with government approval.

Forget that investing is a gamble, apparently some are above this concept.

Like the AIG fiasco, it's business as usual.

God Bless the real America.

For every action there is a reaction. If they were to suspend dividends then the banks' stock prices would fall for sure. I would guess that would suck even more cash out of the banks and may negate the effort to recapitalize.

Ever get the sense that no one really knows the right thing do to but everyone is an expert on the wrong thing to do.
post #180 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

But isn't that the kind of thinking that got the world into this mess?

No it was deregulation. Borrowers are blameless.
post #181 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

For every action there is a reaction. If they were to suspend dividends then the banks' stock prices would fall for sure. I would guess that would suck even more cash out of the banks and may negate the effort to recapitalize.

Ever get the sense that no one really knows the right thing do to but everyone is an expert on the wrong thing to do.

You didn't read the article did you.
post #182 of 199
<tin foil hat>The GOP is throwing this election because the upcoming credit card and derivatives crashes are going to make the home mortgage crash look like a boom.</tin foil hat>

Think about it.
post #183 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

You didn't read the article did you.

It's an op-ed and not a news article and I did read it so do you have a point to make about what I posted or are you just being passive aggressive?
post #184 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

It's an op-ed and not a news article and I did read it so do you have a point to make about what I posted or are you just being passive aggressive?

The banks where already in the process of failing, hence the tax payer funds.

Paying dividends with tax payer money to insure what? More investment in the banks that had to be bailed out?
Right, there's an investment opportunity.

The money was meant to recapitalize the banks, not reimburse gamblers and the banking elite.
Quote:
Moreover, given their own equity stakes, the officers and directors of the nine banks will be among the leading beneficiaries of the dividend payout. We estimate that their personal take of the dividends will amount to approximately $250 million in the first year.

At the least, it's the perception that your money is being used to reward the careless disregard of sound financial policy shown by financial institutions.

Foreclose on the marks, auction at a loss and get rewarded with a government bailout with a payout.

If I didn't know better, it sounds like a plan.

But hey, if it's alright with you, as an American, Hurrah.
post #185 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Okay so what I've learned is that you don't the basic knowledge of the topic to be able to discuss it.

Nice.
I'd say by the amount of time that's passed, and your posting in other threads since, you haven't found anything anywhere to counter the argument, opinion, in an op-ed written by,
Quote:
David S. Scharfstein is a professor of finance at Harvard Business School. Jeremy C. Stein is a professor of economics at Harvard.

Yeah, these two don't have any knowledge on the subject.
I happened to agree with the premise that bailing out banks and rewarding those without penalty is a waste of money.

Kinda like the McCain plan to keep homeowners in their homes, buy out mortgages at full value from the banks, replace them with mortgages at market value.

Who loses, not the banks.
post #186 of 199
Has everyone had enough now? Or is someone still going to vote for McSame?

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/22/mark...ion=2008102210

Quote:
Another stock battering
Dow ends down 514 points, Nasdaq at 5-year low as weak earnings, slumping oil prices add to recession fears.

What a lovely mess the republicans and Bush have left us with.

Oh! I forgot! Nothing is the Republican's fault! They were just running the show while this happened.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #187 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Oh! I forgot! Nothing is the Republican's fault! They were just running the show while this happened.

NOTHING is ever the Republicans fault. They're the victims. Always.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #188 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Has everyone had enough now? Or is someone still going to vote for McSame?

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/22/mark...ion=2008102210



What a lovely mess the republicans and Bush have left us with.

Oh! I forgot! Nothing is the Republican's fault! They were just running the show while this happened.

So nice of Waxman to schedule the Fan/Fred hearing for SOME FUCKING TIME IN JANUARY. That's real leadership.

Oh wait I forgot. Nothing is ever the Democrats' fault.
post #189 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

So nice of Waxman to schedule the Fan/Fred hearing for SOME FUCKING TIME IN JANUARY. That's real leadership.

Oh wait I forgot. Nothing is ever the Democrats' fault.

Actually the hearing is November 20th.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #190 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Actually the hearing is November 20th.

Waxman is such a prince of a man. Always putting what is best for the country ahead of what is best for the Democratic party. No sense in bothering the poor voters with the GSOs during this busy time before the election.[/SARCASM]
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #191 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Actually the hearing is November 20th.

My bad. SOME FUCKING TIME IN NOVEMBER (after Obama is elected)!
post #192 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

(after Obama is elected)!

Acceptance is, after all, one of the key stages in the grief process.
eye
bee
BEE
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eye
bee
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post #193 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Waxman is such a prince of a man. Always putting what is best for the country ahead of what is best for the Democratic party. No sense in bothering the poor voters with the GSOs during this busy time before the election.[/SARCASM]

Yeah, that Rep. John Mica should host a show on Comedy Central. That dude slings some seriously funny shit.

Oh, and I think their more commonly referred to as GSE's.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #194 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerLurker View Post

Acceptance is, after all, one of the key stages in the grief process.

No grieving for me. Just promise no violence if Obama happens to lose.
post #195 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

No grieving for me. Just promise no violence if Obama happens to lose.

Yeah. Because the white hot eliminationst rhetoric about how terror loving traitors are poised to take over the country and suspend the constitution is certainly coming from the people with all the guns.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #196 of 199
Well well well,
For those that believe in free markets and one member here who stated a lack of regulation wasn't the problem,
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/bu...4panel.html?hp
Quote:
Facing a firing line of questions from Washington lawmakers, Alan Greenspan, the former Federal Reserve chairman once considered the infallible maestro of the financial system, admitted on Thursday that he made a mistake in trusting that free markets could regulate themselves without government oversight.

But in a tense exchange with Representative Henry A. Waxman, the California Democrat who is chairman of the committee, Mr. Greenspan conceded a more serious flaw in his own philosophy that unfettered free markets sit at the root of a superior economy.

I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organizations, specifically banks and others, were such as that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders and their equity in the firms, Mr. Greenspan said.

Referring to his free-market ideology, Mr. Greenspan added: I have found a flaw. I dont know how significant or permanent it is. But I have been very distressed by that fact.
post #197 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Well well well,
For those that believe in free markets and one member here who stated a lack of regulation wasn't the problem,
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/bu...4panel.html?hp

Is there anyone here that believes in an absolute free market? That doesn't exist anywhere on the planet.

I think the member you're referring to was answering an allegation when he said that deregulation by the Republicans was not the problem.

Which is true. Most of the parts of the financial industry involved in creating this crisis have never been regulated.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #198 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Is there anyone here that believes in an absolute free market? That doesn't exist anywhere on the planet.

I think the member you're referring to was answering an allegation when he said that deregulation by the Republicans was not the problem.

Which is true. Most of the parts of the financial industry involved in creating this crisis have never been regulated.

SSlarson believes an unfettered free market would be nirvana and SDW stated deregulation, no regulation wasn't the problem.

Don't expect sslarson to respond unless you quote me, by my past replies, questions, I'm on his ignore list.
post #199 of 199
Good news from the Wall Street traders, maybe,
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sh...race-tightened
Quote:
CNBC's Maria Bartiromo on Thursday excitedly told viewers that an intra-day rally which had brought the Dow Jones Industrial Average from down about 275 to up over 170 was caused by rumors that the presidential race had tightened.

I wonder if these rumors will get reported by Obama-loving press members.

I guess we know what side her toast is buttered on.
Quote:
With about fifteen minutes to go in the trading session, the camera found a suddenly happy Bartiromo on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange gleefully saying the following

Welcome back, down here on the floor with Dylan. Just walking around, hearing some rumors about one of the reasons that this market bounced off the bottom is there are rumors in the market, speculation that the race for the White House is getting tighter. And one trader telling us just moments ago that he thought the reason that the market was so low was when Obama had the lead because he's gonna raise taxes. And then when things got tighter, things bounced off the bottom. At some point you have to believe this market starts trading on the White House. [...]

There you go, a vote for Obama is bad for Wall Street.

FloorJack, I consider it an honor to be on your ignore list.
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