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How Has The Wall St. Meltdown Affected You? - Page 2

post #41 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

250k insurance is very relevant! As for me, I had run out and pulled money from my accounts that were higher than 100k. This put more strain on the banks, many people did as I did. I would have not reacted this way if the FDIC was already insuring accounts larger than 100k.

Yes, but the increased insurance is illusory. Should the bank go under, accounts are covered by a higher amount of dollars which don't exist. Print more money, money's worth less, repeat.

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post #42 of 199
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

6.1% seems pretty high to me, look at this graph for comparison



And also, the trend it the worrysome bit.


Unemployment is going up because the economy is slowing. That's not shocking. I disagree that 6.1% is high. It's been much higher in the past.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

I don't have to point out that unemployment is a measure of the number of people seeking jobs which is highly dependent on how confident they feel they can get jobs...

No, you don't, because it's a point that's purely academic. If unemployment being 6.1% means nothing, then unemployment being 3% means nothing.
It's a measure of the economy. One must take it for what it's worth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Yes, but the increased insurance is illusory. Should the bank go under, accounts are covered by a higher amount of dollars which don't exist. Print more money, money's worth less, repeat.

I think that's overstated. The money exists because the government is potentially borrowing it. That in itself does tend to deflate the value of our currency, but not by 1-1 proportions by far. Additionally, the dollar has gone up in the midst of the financial meltdown. So it's a bit more complicated than saying the insurance is illusory. If your bank goes under, you get up to $250,000 to cover your account. It's not like you get it and it's worth $150,000 the next day, or the next year or the next 5 years. It does affect inflation, of course.
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post #43 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

No, you don't, because it's a point that's purely academic. If unemployment being 6.1% means nothing, then unemployment being 3% means nothing.
It's a measure of the economy. One must take it for what it's worth.

Um, no, actually, if we took it at its "worth" it would be academic, as in discussing meaningless numbers in an unaffected bubble. Rather, the value of the unemployment number cannot be separated from the number of jobs created. Less jobs created, lower unemployment = people are giving up. More jobs created, higher unemployment = people are beginning to look for work again. etc. The unemployment number does not stand on its own.
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post #44 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post

Lives in a paid off house and doesn't owe anyone anything.

The old "I'm alright Jack, why aren't you" philosophy.

Colin Cowherd of ESPN Radio said it best: it's a YOU problem.

Being Chinese myself, I've always been taught to "save up for the bad times." That's why I scour the 'Net for bargains all the time, buy products that won't cost me an arm and a leg, and as such I'm ready to ride out this crisis.

This is why I support a true consumption-based tax system like FairTax--it encourages Americans to save and invest because of no tax consequences to job income, interest income, dividend income, capital gains, etc.
post #45 of 199
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Um, no, actually, if we took it at its "worth" it would be academic, as in discussing meaningless numbers in an unaffected bubble. Rather, the value of the unemployment number cannot be separated from the number of jobs created. Less jobs created, lower unemployment = people are giving up. More jobs created, higher unemployment = people are beginning to look for work again. etc. The unemployment number does not stand on its own.

So you're claiming that unemployment actually is an inverse indicator wrt job creation?
It's not a meaningless number. A lot goes into the number...and certainly we must take into account those who have "stopped looking." But in general, unemployment is a good economic indicator. In other words, more people are working at 3% than at 6%. The economy is better at 3% than at 6%. Agreed?
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post #46 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Yes, but the increased insurance is illusory. Should the bank go under, accounts are covered by a higher amount of dollars which don't exist. Print more money, money's worth less, repeat.

You can say that at any time not at this particular time. We have been printing more money since banks decided to do the 1 - 10 rule. (if you have $ 10 you can loan $ 100 and charge interest on it).

If it is only psychological or not, it made me feel better and I am letting my latest energy income sit in only one bank.
post #47 of 199
Things for me have worked out pretty much like I thought they would have. My networth has been pretty seriously dinged because the stocks I own and the properties I own and manage are all currently stuck in a deflationary loop. Since I don't eat or sleep my networth it hasn't done my any harm. Everything I own is about cashflow month to month and they not only are doing that, but are doing it on an inflation adjusted basis. The smallest apartment in my complex rented for $485 a month in 2002. It now rents for $690. So my standard of living hasn't changed for now.

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post #48 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

So you're claiming that unemployment actually is an inverse indicator wrt job creation?
It's not a meaningless number. A lot goes into the number...and certainly we must take into account those who have "stopped looking." But in general, unemployment is a good economic indicator. In other words, more people are working at 3% than at 6%. The economy is better at 3% than at 6%. Agreed?

It depends upon how the rest of the economy is doing.

If for instance, there have been no jobs created for the last twenty years, and 97% of people have just stopped looking for jobs, then a 3% unemployment is meaningless.

It isn't a number you can quickly look at and get a sense of how the economy is doing.
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post #49 of 199
I rebalanced everything 6 months ago with the idea that this kind of thing was coming. I'm down, but not nearly as much as many others. I went heavy international and I'm thinking about jumping back into the America as we have some fantastically low stock prices.

I'm still scared, though, so my international focus remains.

I'm no genius, but the retirement funds are still looking decent considering (1) how much in the shitter things are and (2) I'm not retiring for 30 years at least.
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post #50 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

I rebalanced everything 6 months ago with the idea that this kind of thing was coming. I'm down, but not nearly as much as many others. I went heavy international and I'm thinking about jumping back into the America as we have some fantastically low stock prices.

I'm still scared, though, so my international focus remains.

I'm no genius, but the retirement funds are still looking decent considering (1) how much in the shitter things are and (2) I'm not retiring for 30 years at least.

Besides Warren Buffet many high rollers look like they are getting ready to get back in on the ground floor of US stocks. I just bought another handful of AAPL at the recent dip. I think also HP and T are drastically undervalued. Good time to buy while everyone else is in a panic.

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post #51 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

So you're claiming that unemployment actually is an inverse indicator wrt job creation?
It's not a meaningless number. A lot goes into the number...and certainly we must take into account those who have "stopped looking." But in general, unemployment is a good economic indicator. In other words, more people are working at 3% than at 6%. The economy is better at 3% than at 6%. Agreed?

I don't really understand why the unemployment rate that's most commonly used is such a stupid measure, but economists often use other numbers, like this one, called "U6." It's much closer to a measure of the percent of the working-age population that is unemployed. I don't think it even goes back any further than 1994.

post #52 of 199
My international stocks have lost over half their value really paling my domestic losses. I'm trying to buy buy right now just to bring down my average price paid per share.
post #53 of 199
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

I don't really understand why the unemployment rate that's most commonly used is such a stupid measure, but economists often use other numbers, like this one, called "U6." It's much closer to a measure of the percent of the working-age population that is unemployed. I don't think it even goes back any further than 1994.


It looks like it parallels the standard measure, though.

Quote:
It depends upon how the rest of the economy is doing.

If for instance, there have been no jobs created for the last twenty years, and 97% of people have just stopped looking for jobs, then a 3% unemployment is meaningless.

That example is completely unrealistic.
Quote:

It isn't a number you can quickly look at and get a sense of how the economy is doing.

I disagree. What you'll find is that the number is directly proportional to other indicators, though it trails them. Show me 4% unemployment and I'll show you a good economy....show me 8% and I'll show you a bad one historically speaking. It might not be accurate as far as the number of people without jobs goes, but it's still a good indicator.
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post #54 of 199
Thread Starter 
By the way, I'm now down 30%. Ouch. Fortunately both accounts I've mentioned are long term, but I was thinking of using some funds from one account. Guess not.
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post #55 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

That example is completely unrealistic.

It doesn't have to be realistic to prove a mathematical point and prove it I did.

Quote:
I disagree. What you'll find is that the number is directly proportional to other indicators, though it trails them. Show me 4% unemployment and I'll show you a good economy....show me 8% and I'll show you a bad one historically speaking. It might not be accurate as far as the number of people without jobs goes, but it's still a good indicator.

No economist worth his salt would ever say that unemployment is proportional to anything...
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post #56 of 199
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

It doesn't have to be realistic to prove a mathematical point and prove it I did.

But it's a completely academic point. It has no application to reality.

Quote:

No economist worth his salt would ever say that unemployment is proportional to anything...

History says differently. The economy has been good while the unemployment rate has been low. I'm not saying it's good because it's low, just that other data/indicators are positive when unemployment happens to be down.
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post #57 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

By the way, I'm now down 30%. Ouch. Fortunately both accounts I've mentioned are long term, but I was thinking of using some funds from one account. Guess not.

Quite the tax hike.....
Believing costs a lot more money than knowing.
post #58 of 199
All I can say is that I'm relieved that my current gig (a Cartoon Network show) is currently funded by King Abdullah of Jordan (via Rubicon). I never thought in a million years I'd be happy my payroll is secured by Middle Eastern cash. Some friends of ours down the street working on a different C/N show just got notice that their season is being slashed in half (they're funded with British Pounds and the Brits simply cannot afford the exchange rate anymore). Ouch. I feel bad for those folks because they're going to be in a world of hurt soon. Production funding is drying up quickly around here.

Unemployment here we come!!!! Woot!!!!

I'm currently shopping for cardboard boxes. You know, just in case.
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post #59 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

But it's a completely academic point. It has no application to reality.



History says differently. The economy has been good while the unemployment rate has been low. I'm not saying it's good because it's low, just that other data/indicators are positive when unemployment happens to be down.

Why are you defending the use of a single statistic to evaluate the economy? It simply makes no sense why you are arguing this.

Unemployment is a horrible horrible number that isn't directly correlated with any useful means of measuring the health of the economy. It is a single measurement that cannot replace and is diminished by other measures (in this case, the number of jobs created/removed)...
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post #60 of 199
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Why are you defending the use of a single statistic to evaluate the economy? It simply makes no sense why you are arguing this.

Unemployment is a horrible horrible number that isn't directly correlated with any useful means of measuring the health of the economy. It is a single measurement that cannot replace and is diminished by other measures (in this case, the number of jobs created/removed)...

I am not using a single statistic to evaluate the health of the economy. I'm saying that it correlates to the health to the economy. You seem to be discounting it totally, saying it counts for nothing. But this is not true. While it might not measure the number of people "out of work," it does correlate to the relative strength of the economy, which itself is measured in other ways.
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post #61 of 199
Georges Legacy in numbers

SDW2001 please defend this for me. Tell me how wonderful this is. Please.
post #62 of 199
The latest rumor is that Obama is single-handedly causing the fall of the stock market...

It couldn't be the fact that banks just don't trust each other? No. It's Obama's fault.

"In a fit of cruel irony, the last remaining thinking conservatives ate their brains in an attempt to slander the liberal presidential candidate."
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post #63 of 199
[to JAMAC's link]

That link has one decent 'monoblog' post then a whole slew of ultra-conservative nuts spewing idiocy . . . . can people ctually blame this collapse on taxes? utterly pathetic, utterly.
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post #64 of 199
[QUOTE=Northgate;1319860]All I can say is that I'm relieved that my current gig (a Cartoon Network show)[\\QUOTE]

If it is "the Venture Brothers" then I am absolutely in awe of you.
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post #65 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

All I can say is that I'm relieved that my current gig (a Cartoon Network show) is currently funded by King Abdullah of Jordan (via Rubicon). I never thought in a million years I'd be happy my payroll is secured by Middle Eastern cash. Some friends of ours down the street working on a different C/N show just got notice that their season is being slashed in half (they're funded with British Pounds and the Brits simply cannot afford the exchange rate anymore). Ouch. I feel bad for those folks because they're going to be in a world of hurt soon. Production funding is drying up quickly around here.

Unemployment here we come!!!! Woot!!!!

I'm currently shopping for cardboard boxes. You know, just in case.

You're an animator? Really? That's so cool.

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post #66 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfflam View Post

[to JAMAC's link]

That link has one decent 'monoblog' post then a whole slew of ultra-conservative nuts spewing idiocy . . . . can people ctually blame this collapse on taxes? utterly pathetic, utterly.

Just like the quacks round the dying man's bed arguing that they have not applied enough leaches.
post #67 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

SDW2001 please defend this for me. Tell me how wonderful this is. Please.

I'm sure that there's some way that this mess is mostly Bill Clinton's fault for starting it, and Congressional Democrats fault for not fixing the mess Bill Clinton started during the last two years.
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post #68 of 199
[QUOTE=e1618978;1319941]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

All I can say is that I'm relieved that my current gig (a Cartoon Network show)[\\QUOTE]

If it is "the Venture Brothers" then I am absolutely in awe of you.

Sorry, no. I'm actually working on the new Pink Panther show.
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post #69 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

You're an animator? Really? That's so cool.

I'm an editor, which is nowhere near as cool as being an animator. I'm the lead-editor and head of post production. I'm also doing all the sound-design on the show. This is C/N's first big HD production. So we're all struggling with a new HD workflow and 5.1 audio. But we're very proud of how it's turning out. Should air sometime next year.
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post #70 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

Georges Legacy in numbers

SDW2001 please defend this for me. Tell me how wonderful this is. Please.

The national debt (so far) under the Certified Worst President Ever (CWPE), aka George W. Bush, for fiscal years 2002 (10/1/2001) through 2009 (9/30/2009) per OMB definition.

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06
10/08/2008 $10,245,247,740,307.50

Elapsed time so far 7.023 years, in other words we haven't seen the last full year of the CWPE financial fiasco.

Average annual increase of the national debt under the CWPE $632 billion/year

In the last year alone the national debt has increased by $1,191 trillion, with half that total occurring in the last 21 days alone.

Investors must be dumping their stocks and buying up T-Bills or something.

CBO estimated the national debt (in early September of this year) at the end of fiscal year 2009 (09/30/2009) as $10.277 trillion, similarly the OMB estimated the national debt (in late July of this year) at the end of fiscal year 2009 as $10.413 trillion.

So we are almost at a national debt that wasn't expected to occur until almost a year from now.

By the time the CWPE, et. al. are done with their disastrous fiscal policies they could leave the national debt at twice the value they started with.

Of course, this isn't as bad percentage wise as the Reagan-Bush years, where the national debt increased by a factor of 4.37

One can only come to the conclusion that the Republican administrations are fully intent on driving the government into the ground faster than McCain can fly a jet into the ground.
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post #71 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

The latest rumor is that Obama is single-handedly causing the fall of the stock market...

It couldn't be the fact that banks just don't trust each other? No. It's Obama's fault.

"In a fit of cruel irony, the last remaining thinking conservatives ate their brains in an attempt to slander the liberal presidential candidate."

Actually, what scares investors is Senator Obama wanting to raise income taxes and capital gains taxes, the LAST we need to do to save our economy. We should do the EXACT opposite and ditch our current income tax system in favor a true consumption tax system, where there are NO taxes on income and capital gains. That would result in trillions of US dollars, Euros, etc. flowing into the USA in new liquidity, which would stop the market slide in almost a blink of an eye.
post #72 of 199
Ok. Back to reality....
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post #73 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I'm an editor, which is nowhere near as cool as being an animator. I'm the lead-editor and head of post production. I'm also doing all the sound-design on the show. This is C/N's first big HD production. So we're all struggling with a new HD workflow and 5.1 audio. But we're very proud of how it's turning out. Should air sometime next year.

So you're the one in charge of putting in the subliminal dirty pictures?
post #74 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

So you're the one in charge of putting in the subliminal dirty pictures?

Shhhhh. You're not supposed to know these things.
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post #75 of 199
I guess now we're admitting that total national debt (incuding the inter-governmental holdings) is what we should be counting.

So we can put to rest this bullshit mythology that Clinton ever had a real surplus of any kind.
post #76 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SactoMan01 View Post

Actually, what scares investors is Senator Obama wanting to raise income taxes and capital gains taxes, the LAST we need to do to save our economy. We should do the EXACT opposite and ditch our current income tax system in favor a true consumption tax system, where there are NO taxes on income and capital gains. That would result in trillions of US dollars, Euros, etc. flowing into the USA in new liquidity, which would stop the market slide in almost a blink of an eye.

Heheheh...

You've got to stop drinking the koolaid...

Obama has actually stated that if push came to shove he would forgo the tax increases (really, reversions) on the quarter-million plus set and push forward his tax decreases for the 95% of tax payers who actually drive the economy.

But never mind the details, after all you have a POINT to make. A falsehood, but a point nonetheless...
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post #77 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SactoMan01 View Post

We should do the EXACT opposite and ditch our current income tax system in favor a true consumption tax system, where there are NO taxes on income and capital gains.

It would be a great day if they ever did such a thing. But I mean seriously, if you did that, you wouldn't be able to play one class against another at election time. You can't demonize the rich and tell everyone how your going to soak them for more money. What fun would that be.
post #78 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by SactoMan01 View Post

Actually, what scares investors is Senator Obama wanting to raise income taxes and capital gains taxes, the LAST we need to do to save our economy.

Obama has already ditched his tax plan, and does not plan on letting the Bush tax cuts expire until we are out of recession.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

Cutting capital gains rates to zero would cause a stock market crash, due to everybody trying to
realize long term capital gains while the getting is good.
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post #79 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Obama has already ditched his tax plan, and does not plan on letting the Bush tax cuts expire until we are out of recession.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1



This guy must be a fucking genius:

Quote:
Democrat Barack Obama says he would delay rescinding President Bush's tax cuts on wealthy Americans if he becomes the next president and the economy is in a recession, suggesting such an increase would further hurt the economy.

What about increasing taxes on the wealthy?

"I think we've got to take a look and see where the economy is. I mean, the economy is weak right now," Obama said

So let me see if I have this right. We're going to hold off on raising those taxes on the rich because it might further hurt the economy. So we'll wait until the economy is better to (try to) soak the rich (and then hurt the economy at that time).

Priceless.




Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Cutting capital gains rates to zero would cause a stock market crash, due to everybody trying to realize long term capital gains while the getting is good.

Not if the cut was permanent.
post #80 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post


So let me see if I have this right. We're going to hold off on raising those taxes on the rich because it might further hurt the economy. So we'll wait until the economy is better to (try to) soak the rich (and then hurt the economy at that time).

Priceless.


Kind of like Clinton raised taxes on the rich when coming out of a recession, and we had a seven year bull market afterwards? And there is no such thing as a permanent tax cut - the poor people will push for capital gains taxes eventually.
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