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Apple HDTV rumors resurface

post #1 of 121
Thread Starter 
Years-old rumors that Apple will roll out a line of Internet-connected displays have resurfaced in reports that suggest the company will bundle its Apple TV product within a new line of HDTVs.

In a report referencing a rumor floated by Mahalo chief Jason Calacanis, who claims that he knows "first-hand" that Apple is working on what's described as a networked television, CNET writer Nate Lanxon noted that the assertion "isn't surprising" given Apple's 30-inch Cinema Display.

Back in January 2007, American Technology analyst Shaw Wu supported such rumors with a research note stating that the company was working on "large screen" technologies within its development labs. "We are not certain on timing but our analysis indicates that AAPL is beyond prototype on large-screen technologies (for a larger monitor or possibly Apple-branded HDTV)," he advised clients at the time.

However, that was nearly two years ago. Since then, Apple has continued to sell video projectors from Epson and NEC in both its online and physical retail stores but does not sell HDTVs in either, indicating that the company hasn't exactly rushed to enter the HDTV market. A number of cost and usefulness factors have likely come into play.

Cinema Display vs HDTV

Apple already faces tough competition in its high-end Cinema Display line. Apple's largest 30" display costs $1800 and requires a "Pro" level Mac with Dual Link DVI graphics in order to drive the screen's 2560x1600 resolution. A name brand 32" HDTV costs closer to $700, because it uses inexpensive parts to deliver a much lower resolution picture.

Apple TV is designed to target those simpler TV displays. It can theoretically deliver a 1920x1080 (1080p) signal, but most content is typically supplied at 1280x720 (720p), or roughly a quarter the resolution of the 30" Cinema Display. Apple's HD iTunes content is distributed at the lower standard HD resolution, as is most HD cable and free HD broadcasts. There is next to no content delivered at 1080p outside of Blu-ray discs, which have yet to make a significant impact on the market outside of a videophile niche.

The majority of HDTVs under 40 inches are also "only" 720p resolution, as full 1080p resolution displays are considerably more expensive but only deliver a visible superiority on sets larger than 50 inches. Some networks also favor the 720p standard for its smoother image quality in fast moving sports programming, including ABC, FOX and ESPN; other networks supply their HD programming in 1080i, including CBS, NBC, HBO, and Discovery, which provides a sharper picture in low motion still shots.

Apple TV provides nominal support for 1080i video, but content it delivers from iTunes is 720p, while most podcasts are either 720p, standard definition 640x480, or even lower quality. YouTube supplies 320x240 video, although Google is beginning to roll out a higher quality 448x336 encoding option.

Mind the (price) gap

The vast difference in price and quality between Cinema Display computer video resolutions and the relatively low resolution HDTV market means that HDTVs are a far more competitive, commoditized mass market. That results in little room for Apple to differentiate itself as a TV vendor.

Instead of selling its own low margin, high volume TV sets, Apple has shipped the Apple TV appliance as a device that can work with any modern HDTV set from any manufacturer. In the direct-to-TV arena, Apple TV compares with HP's $350 MediaSmart box, or Sony's $300 Sony Bravia Internet Video Link module tied to Amazon's Unbox service.

No manufacturer has seen any runaway success in selling an Internet-connected HDTV for streaming downloads, photos, music and related content like Apple TV. HP's strategy of attaching its MediaSmart box to its own HDTVs has not resulted in any particular success, and Sony's incorporation of its Bravia Internet Video Link module has faired roughly as well.

Much of this challenge stems from the cost. Putting a $229 Apple TV into an HDTV costing $700 or more would add 32 percent to the price of the set. In a market where price is often the primary consideration, this may be a difficult sell.

Low Margin HDTV + Low Margin Apple TV = Win?

Price breakdowns indicate that Apple's margins on the Apple TV are already razor thin, particularly when compared to Macs, the iPod, and the iPhone. That gives Apple little room to strip the price down further, even if it were incorporated directly into an HDTV set. It simply includes too many expensive components. Apple sells the unit as nearly a loss leader to gain a foothold in the slowly emerging market for direct TV downloads.

Instead, Apple has been incrementally improving the software of the Apple TV to features such as HD video downloads, support for Dolby Digital 5.1, and most recently HD TV programming from iTunes and Remote features that integrate with the iPhone and iPod touch. Apple has taken dominant market share in video downloads as existing rivals, including Vongo, have failed and new competitors such as Vudu have struggled to match Apple's aggressive price cuts.

If anything, Apple's best bet may be to work out a deal to bundle Apple TV units with the HDTVs sold by manufacturers, or else striking deals with partners such as Best Buy to sell the unit as an accessory with the new HDTV units it sells. Given that Apple hasn't shipped its own HDTV set incorporating Apple TV features over the last two years of reportedly investigating the possibility, it would seem likely the company is taking its time investigating alternatives to jumping into the risky HDTV business all on its own.
post #2 of 121
Apple will not start selling HD monitors. That's a commodity market, already saturated by companies with WAY more experience and focus than Apple. Takes up LOTs of warehouse space which Apple doesn't have in its retail chain.
They REALLY will not start selling Monitors with AppleTVs built in.
The market for all-in-one TVs with built-in everything died years ago, and I don't see anyone who wants to have their digital technology (DVR, DVD, etc) tied to their monitor. Even cable-cards have died a quiet death.
post #3 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Apple will not start selling HD monitors. That's a commodity market, already saturated by companies with WAY more experience and focus than Apple. Takes up LOTs of warehouse space which Apple doesn't have in its retail chain.
They REALLY will not start selling Monitors with AppleTVs built in.
The market for all-in-one TVs with built-in everything died years ago, and I don't see anyone who wants to have their digital technology (DVR, DVD, etc) tied to their monitor. Even cable-cards have died a quiet death.

Commodity? You could say the same thing about computers and mobile phones. They didn't drop Computer from their name for nothing. It's been a long time since the Cinema Displays were updated, and I'd say the HDTV thing has a lot to do with it.

Interfaces and remotes have become a nightmare for people trying to watch TV. Look for Apple to make it easier.
post #4 of 121
Quote:
There is next to no content delivered at 1080p outside of Blu-ray discs, which have yet to make a significant impact on the market outside of a videophile niche.

Sorry but that is pure crap statement, mainly because of the existance of the PS3, which has sales numbers in the millions and are not a "videophile niche".
post #5 of 121
People need to go back into Apple's history and see what Jobs was thinking years ago. An Apple TV is not far fetched.
post #6 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Price breakdowns indicate that Apple's margins on the Apple TV are already razor thin,

This surprises me, as the one thing that really stands out to me is that the Apple TV is grossly overpriced for what it does. If this is true, they really need to figure out a way to make them less expensive to build.
post #7 of 121
I would buy an Apple HDTV in a heartbeat. I'm sure it would include all sorts of extra goodies. Maybe even let me use it as a monitor.... wirelessly. It would be even more awesome if they integrated a DVR into it (VERY VERY VERY doubtful). I'm tired of my POS Comcast cable box freezing and mucking up my recordings.
post #8 of 121
I'm confused...is this article actually suggesting that Apple will drop the cinema displays in favor of HDTVs???? While obviously HDTVs are much cheaper, they are (as pointed out ) of much less resolution. There are some of us out here who like our cinema displays for the resolution...crisp, clear, and bright. Apple can go ahead and introduce a tv...I think it would have to be something VERY revolutionary...iPhone revolutionary...in order to have any type of success, there's just too many HDTVs out there. Like the article said, price is the bottom line not aesthetics or ability to stream content from your computer (haven't AppleTV sales proven this???). Anyways, I don't care if Apple releases a TV, just that a TV doesn't replace my Cinema Display!!
post #9 of 121
What content is on the PS3 that is 1080p and isn't BD? (Not talking about the games here) Do they deliver TV shows at 1080p? The PS3 hasn't sold millions because it's a BD player - it certainly helps justify the expense but that's still not the primary reason most buy PS3's.

"BD's have yet to make a significant impact on the market outside of the videophile niche" is about as accurate as you're going to get - until the prices come down to the DVD prices and the players drop to $100 range it's not going to take off and become mainstream.
post #10 of 121
Would use of the rumored line of NVDIA chips in a TV make any sense?
post #11 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post

Sorry but that is pure crap statement, mainly because of the existance of the PS3, which has sales numbers in the millions and are not a "videophile niche".

I think what was being said was that virtually the only source of 1080p HD content is from BDs. Yes, PS3 has a Bluray drive, but has it increased demand 1080p content? The answer to that is probably not. I know a few people with PS3s and none of them even have any Bluray movies...
post #12 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple TV provides nominal support for 1080i video, but content it delivers from iTunes is 720p, while most podcasts are either 720p, standard definition 640x480, or even lower quality.

1080i? Not in any spec I've ever seen. Unless you just mean upscaling 720p to 1080i, but that's not "video" playback.
post #13 of 121
Well regardless, hopefully it will be a big update soon - as Yahoo is already cranking on their TV box/Widget platform:
http://connectedtv.yahoo.com/
http://connectedtv.yahoo.com/partners/att
post #14 of 121
Cablecards have died?

http://www.tru2way.com/

Will Apple create a HDTV? That depends on what technologies they can bring to the field. I think that there's room for improvement in HDTV where interfaces are concerned. Can Apple leverage their talents here is unknown to me.

The HDTV market is no different that computers.

You have the low end/low margin entry level.

You have the mid price monitors

You have the high end/high margin monitors

We know Apple is not going to be a player in the low end. If they do enter the HDTV field they won't be competing with the Magnavox or low end Visio stuff.

I think we're still a generation or two of SoC chips aways from embedding an Apple TV into a HDTV but overall it makes sense once the BoM is down to just a few chips and memory.
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post #15 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Years-old rumors that Apple will roll out a line of Internet-connected displays have resurfaced in reports that suggest the company will bundle its Apple TV product within a new line of HDTVs.

In a report referencing a rumor floated by Mahalo chief Jason Calacanis, who claims that he knows "first-hand" that Apple is working on what's described as a networked television, CNET writer Nate Lanxon noted that the assertion "isn't surprising" given Apple's 30-inch Cinema Display.

So you took some rumor about "networked television" and somehow turned that into Apple making HDTVs? Maybe it's just a better version of the current Apple TV.

That said, I am left wondering if the new video port on the Mac might be HDMI and we'll see a new line of displays Apple that'll take HDMI including from the Apple TV.
post #16 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

This surprises me, as the one thing that really stands out to me is that the Apple TV is grossly overpriced for what it does. If this is true, they really need to figure out a way to make them less expensive to build.

I've always thought that! Either Apple is not taking full advantage of the AppleTV hardware or they have other plans for it. I really believe that Apple should consider opening AppleTV for gaming if possible or to think about it in the next AppleTV hardware upgrade (whenever that will be).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariofreak85 View Post

I would buy an Apple HDTV in a heartbeat. I'm sure it would include all sorts of extra goodies. Maybe even let me use it as a monitor.... wirelessly. It would be even more awesome if they integrated a DVR into it (VERY VERY VERY doubtful). I'm tired of my POS Comcast cable box freezing and mucking up my recordings.

I wondered why no one released a WiFi LCD HDTV yet! I've heard about LG releasing one last year but nothing since. An HDTV with something similar to AppleTV (mainly a replaceable HDD and a processor) built in is not that bad if you consider that people keep their TVs for long time. At least this will reduce wiring and the number of remote controls.
The problem I see here is that not many people who already own an HDTV will be welling to pay another $1000+ for a TV. So this might not be viable option for Apple now.
post #17 of 121
The main problem I see is that the Apple TV is vastly overpriced - especially in the UK. I owned for a while but, whilst it was a nice piece of kit, it didn't do enough to justify the price tag. Especially when a £150 Xbox 360 has almost identical functionality and a whole lot more.

I still dream of a Mac mini with 1TB HDD and HDMI output. That would be my perfect TV media player.
post #18 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel84 View Post

I know a few people with PS3s and none of them even have any Bluray movies...

if anything, the number of bluray movies sold should be an indication. And it's still orders of magnitude lower than DVD sales. Maybe it's not exactly videophiles, just people with enough money.
post #19 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel84 View Post

I think what was being said was that virtually the only source of 1080p HD content is from BDs. Yes, PS3 has a Bluray drive, but has it increased demand 1080p content? The answer to that is probably not. I know a few people with PS3s and none of them even have any Bluray movies...

Well Iron Man just sold 500,000 on Blu-Ray, how many of those are going to be watched on PS3s do you think? My primary argument was that Blu-Ray is not a "videophile niche", although I wouldn't argue that its a small part of the market right now. "Videophile niche" makes it sound like something no non-videophile would bother with which is simply not true, not compared to the niche products like DVD-A in the Audiophile market are, for example.
post #20 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post

Sorry but that is pure crap statement, mainly because of the existance of the PS3, which has sales numbers in the millions and are not a "videophile niche".

Including the sales of all PS3s are Blu-ray players the number of Blu-ray drives compared to DVD drives is quite low. WE'll have to wait until the calendar Q4 results are in before we'll be able to see how well BRDs are doing in comparison to DVD and digital downloads. It is still very much a 'videophile niche' as most people are okay with up-converting DVDs and the "good enough" quality of instant access to streaming HD content. Time and time again, convenience and price has shown to be the most important aspects to consumers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CREB View Post

People need to go back into Apple's history and see what Jobs was thinking years ago. An Apple TV is not far fetched.

Considering that the AppleTV already exists, I'm assuming you are referring to an Apple-branded HDTV. But this offers too many issues. How many sizes do they offer? Do they use plasma, LCD, projection, or the up-and-coming OLED? Have you seen the size of the TV sections of department and electronic stores? Apple making their own TV makes no sense and you then you run into the issue of the HDTV or Apple's media extender breaking before the other components do, like with the all-in-one VHS/DVD TVs

The best option is to go with an industry standard that allows for the AppleTV to be secured to the back of the HDTV, like with HP's failed media extender. The only issue is that Apple would have to get with TV manufacturers to get the AppleTV's IR receiveror the USB port on the backto connect to and respond to the HDTVs IR receiver.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

This surprises me, as the one thing that really stands out to me is that the Apple TV is grossly overpriced for what it does. If this is true, they really need to figure out a way to make them less expensive to build.

WHAT! Name a cheaper media extender? For $229 you get 802.11n, 100BASE-T (wish it was 1000BASE-T), 40GB HDD, 1GHz Intel CPU, 256MB DDR2 RAM, Nvidia 7300, HDMI 1.3, Component, analog and optical audio. You can also buy and rent audio and video right from the device which makes it very convenient.

Granted, it's not for everyone, but after seeing the $215 Popcorn Hourthe one that most closely matches the AppleTV HW specsnot work because of Vista, not to mention the complete lack of both a HDD and WiFi the AppleTV is an exceptional deal. The only crutch is that you need to perform the simple and quick task of installing the appropriate codecs via the USB port on a flash drive.
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post #21 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post

Well Iron Man just sold 500,000 on Blu-Ray, how many of those are going to be watched on PS3s do you think? My primary argument was that Blu-Ray is not a "videophile niche", although I wouldn't argue that its a small part of the market right now. "Videophile niche" makes it sound like something no non-videophile would bother with which is simply not true, not compared to the niche products like DVD-A in the Audiophile market are, for example.

And they sold over 7 million regular DVD's and I'll bet the regular DVD sales won't drop off quite as quickly as the BD. So the most popular movie to release to-date on BD sells about 1/14th the # of DVDs. The general numbers aren't anywhere near this kind of performance for BD either. The movies that are special effects heavy are going to sell better on BD than something like the Notebook but until people are convinced that watching some like the Notebook on BD is a better idea DVD is going to remain atop the heap.
post #22 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...Blu-ray discs, which have yet to make a significant impact on the market outside of a videophile niche.

Blu-Ray discs are accounting for up to 13% of DVD sales, which is more than double what it was in March. A niche yes, but a rapidly growing niche that puts internet-based movie series like Apple TV to shame. Apple won't even separate their movie sales from rentals, instead saying that they rent or sell 50,000 movies a day. I would estimate at least 90% of those are rentals, but even 25% would only be 87,500 movie sales a week. By contrast, Iron Man alone on Blu-Ray sold half a million copies in seven days.
post #23 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Granted, it's not for everyone, but after seeing the $215 Popcorn Hour—the one that most closely matches the AppleTV HW specs—not work because of Vista, not to mention the complete lack of both a HDD and WiFi the AppleTV is an exceptional deal. The only crutch is that you need to perform the simple and quick task of installing the appropriate codecs via the USB port on a flash drive.

The Popcorn Hour has a WiFi option for around $17. It also takes standard IDE/SATA HDDs, which are very cheap these days and go up to 1.5TB in size. Codec support is also exceptional and supports 1080p playback.

It's an "enthusiast" device though. The UI is incredibly slow and there's quite a few niggling issues with it.
post #24 of 121
Quote:
There is next to no content delivered at 1080p outside of Blu-ray discs, which have yet to make a significant impact on the market outside of a videophile niche.

That's a ridiculous and biased comment if ever there was one. Blu-ray halted HD DVD and that's not significant? All studios and most electronics companies with the exception of Apple (yet- watch Wed) have a significant commitment in blu-ray- that's not an impact??

And wait until after the 4th Q, a lot of people will be eating their words.
post #25 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmjoe View Post

1080i? Not in any spec I've ever seen. Unless you just mean upscaling 720p to 1080i, but that's not "video" playback.

AppleTV provides nominal support for 1080i. Since the output resolution is offered, it is supported and the statement is correct.

AppleTV doesn't have a display where you could apply the phrase "native resolution", any content that doesn't match the selected output resolution will be scaled.

That's the way the device should work.

Of course it would be nice for Apple to upgrade their hardware, but without useful 1080p content online, that would be completely worthless.

The limited usefulness of any of those mentioned devices can be blamed on the studios not releasing their content in fear of cannibalizing their DVD sales, not Apple, Sony, etc. It's that simple.
post #26 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Blu-Ray discs are accounting for up to 13% of DVD sales, which is more than double what it was in March. A niche yes, but a rapidly growing niche that puts internet-based movie series like Apple TV to shame. Apple won't even separate their movie sales from rentals, instead saying that they rent or sell 50,000 movies a day. I would estimate at least 90% of those are rentals, but even 25% would only be 87,500 movie sales a week. By contrast, Iron Man alone on Blu-Ray sold half a million copies in seven days.

In the case of "Iron-Man" Apple can't even sell the HD version or even rent the movie in either format. This is why statistical comparisons are so worthless at this point.

Each market/channel works under different rules driven by content providers. Online always comes last...
post #27 of 121
If AppleTV had a DVD player (or better yet, a BluRay player) then I would replace my existing DVD player with that in a shot. My TV only has so many inputs, and while I'm more than willing to give movie rentals and purchases from the iTunes store a go, I have *a lot* of DVDs that I'm not going to give up any time soon.

I don't have any burning need for BluRay discs but if I am going to invest in another home entertainment gadget at this point it ought to add something to what I can already do so I'm future-proofing myself to some extent. Better still would be a Mac Mini with BluRay...

-Rolf
post #28 of 121
I tell ya what, it would be pretty cool if Apple released their own TV sets as long as they use the eye candy you expect from Apple when channel hopping. For the UK, built in FreeView tuners are a must or possibly built in FreeSat tuners. I'm hoping this isn't just going to be bundling an Apple TV with regular TVs as that would be stupid. The current Apple TV is generally useless unless you hack it to bits so you can play videos that aren't quicktime formats.

Xbox Media Centre TV. Now THAT would be awesome.
post #29 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

That's a ridiculous and biased comment if ever there was one. Blu-ray halted HD DVD and that's not significant? All studios and most electronics companies with the exception of Apple (yet- watch Wed) have a significant commitment in blu-ray- that's not an impact??

And wait until after the 4th Q, a lot of people will be eating their words.

Eating what words? The average consumer appears satisfied with watching upscaled DVD's in a $50 player instead of spending $10 more for a BD disk.

The commitment of the electronics industry is really of little relevance here. Unless BD disk prices drop to near the price of standard DVD's, you will not see phenomenal shifts (and certainly not by 4Q)
post #30 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I wondered why no one released a WiFi LCD HDTV yet! I've heard about LG releasing one last year but nothing since.

Yes, you are sort of right. I have one of those LG WiFi-enabled LCD HDTVs (LN46A750 -- nice TV, btw). Unfortunately, streaming content from a computer is limited to wired ethernet connections (using DLNA which does not work very well -- I've tried it using Twonky, a commercial DLNA server with mixed results). Their WiFi protocol provides very limited content (e.g. weather). A fully-fledge wireless system from Apple to work with Samsung televisions would be great.
post #31 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmjoe View Post

1080i? Not in any spec I've ever seen. Unless you just mean upscaling 720p to 1080i, but that's not "video" playback.


Alot of Cable TV stations broadcast in 1080i. Basically the bandwith of digital cable today only alows for either 720p or 1080i.

Most stations go with 720p but a few go with the much higher resolution 1080i. (interlaced) Unfortunately you only get to see half the picture at a time, resulting in a little more flicker.

1080p though is THE ONLY FUTURE FOR TV and the sharpness is incredible. Apple knows that, and they know that nobody else provides an easy way to get content.

So i believe (and hope) Apple will make a TV!
post #32 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post

Eating what words? The average consumer appears satisfied with watching upscaled DVD's in a $50 player instead of spending $10 more for a BD disk.

The commitment of the electronics industry is really of little relevance here. Unless BD disk prices drop to near the price of standard DVD's, you will not see phenomenal shifts (and certainly not by 4Q)

And certainly not given the current state (actual or perceived) of the economy. People aren't going to be thinking about paying $10 more PER DISC when they are scrapping for gas money. DVD sales might be ok and movie tickets will do very well (historically speaking recessions/depressions spur huge box office numbers) but the push to BD is going to be slower than Sony (and others) had hoped.
post #33 of 121
I think the fact that Apple doesn't sell HDTVs in it's stores while it does sell projectors, cameras and other media peripherals is proof that they have plans to develop their own HDTV product at some point.
post #34 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Apple will not start selling HD monitors. That's a commodity market, already saturated by companies with WAY more experience and focus than Apple. Takes up LOTs of warehouse space which Apple doesn't have in its retail chain.
They REALLY will not start selling Monitors with AppleTVs built in.
The market for all-in-one TVs with built-in everything died years ago, and I don't see anyone who wants to have their digital technology (DVR, DVD, etc) tied to their monitor. Even cable-cards have died a quiet death.

I would agree with you - but that's exactly what many said about Apple entering the cell phone market. Given the success the iPhone has had, it wouldn't be all that crazy to enter the TV market. However, the time may not be right yet, especially given current economic issues. I am certain there is a strategy to do it when the time is right. My guess is that the AppleTV was really testing the waters and that the endgame is an HDTV with all its features.
post #35 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhowarth View Post

If AppleTV had a DVD player (or better yet, a BluRay player) then I would replace my existing DVD player with that in a shot. My TV only has so many inputs, and while I'm more than willing to give movie rentals and purchases from the iTunes store a go, I have *a lot* of DVDs that I'm not going to give up any time soon.

I don't have any burning need for BluRay discs but if I am going to invest in another home entertainment gadget at this point it ought to add something to what I can already do so I'm future-proofing myself to some extent. Better still would be a Mac Mini with BluRay...

-Rolf

That's definitely not going to happen. The whole concept of the machine is to deliver digital content (via Internet/network), not physical media.
And it would push AppleTV to a price point where simply too few people would buy it.

The PS3 is a perfect example. Sony has been choking on the cost of the device for a long time, trying to sell a console that was simply too expensive for many. And that was even based on a model where the console is already sold at/below costs to sell high-margin games.

I don't think even the lower-end XBox 360 has made a single buck for Microsoft.
post #36 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Blu-Ray discs are accounting for up to 13% of DVD sales, which is more than double what it was in March. A niche yes, but a rapidly growing niche that puts internet-based movie series like Apple TV to shame. Apple won't even separate their movie sales from rentals, instead saying that they rent or sell 50,000 movies a day. I would estimate at least 90% of those are rentals, but even 25% would only be 87,500 movie sales a week. By contrast, Iron Man alone on Blu-Ray sold half a million copies in seven days.

This is just hyperbole.

The article states that BluRay is a niche at this point and you reply with ... yes it is.
Then you quote all these obviously "managed" industry numbers after the fact.

Sure Iron Man "sold" a half a million copies, but I remember when DVD first came out in North America and "Lost in Space" sold a ridiculously high amount of copies also. In fact you couldn't buy a DVD player without having a copy of "Lost in Space" tossed in the bag with it at the time. These early sales figures generated by the industry itself are full of loss-leader items and promotional arrangements that have very little to do with the actual popularity of the medium.

Ask anyone who works at a Bookstore what the Best Seller list really represents. DVD's and BluRay are no different.
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post #37 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by carloblackmore View Post

I think the fact that Apple doesn't sell HDTVs in it's stores while it does sell projectors, cameras and other media peripherals is proof that they have plans to develop their own HDTV product at some point.

A point that many overlook in retail is that TV's are not a cash cows anymore and deliver incredibly low margins.
That combined with expensive shelf/storage space, reasonably high return/damage rates doesn't make a compelling argument to carry, let alone manufacture a HDTV.

When selling a single 23" Cinema Display, Apple makes a more money than Best Buy selling a 46" HDTV.
post #38 of 121
Apple should (and I think will) boost the current Apple TV product up a notch or two. But no chance of Apple shipping their own brand of TV. As others have indicated - it's a saturated market with little if any way of differentiating yourself.

It would be nice if a TV existed with the existing Apple TV's functionality, plus an iPod dock. They'd sell a few, but not enough to sustain the product(s).

Best to give the existing product a big boost (3.5" hard drive, maybe an optional BD drive, bluetooth, SDK) and let Best Buy push it with every TV no matter what size or brand.

So: Would be cool, but won't happen.
post #39 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post

A point that many overlook in retail is that TV's are not a cash cows anymore and deliver incredibly low margins.
That combined with expensive shelf/storage space, reasonably high return/damage rates doesn't make a compelling argument to carry, let alone manufacture a HDTV.

When selling a single 23" Cinema Display, Apple makes a more money than Best Buy selling a 46" HDTV.

And that 23" or 30" ACD is often being used with one of Apple's MBPs or Mac Pros, which only enhances the sale of the two products.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #40 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post

AppleTV provides nominal support for 1080i. Since the output resolution is offered, it is supported and the statement is correct.

[...]

Of course it would be nice for Apple to upgrade their hardware, but without useful 1080p content online, that would be completely worthless.

The rest of that statement was about video playback resolutions. As far as I know, Apple TV does not support 1080i playback, which is what the statement implied. It's pretty much required to support input/output scaling between 720p and 1080i to be considered an HDTV compatible device.

I can record 1080i right now off my cable box or various USB tuners. I don't need 1080p content to be online for it to be useful.
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