Apple announces new 13-inch MacBook - Page 9

if you would have read my post two pages ago and above quote you would know that people who work with audio can't buy a hub. it just wouldn't work.
everybody here just dismisses the use for firewire because external HD work with USB and that FW-cameras are on their way out, but seriously: you can post links to HD cameras that use USB or audio interfaces who do (that are crap) all you want, but it all comes down to the same thing:

either you use your old interfaces/cameras and buy a 2000 euro macBook, or:
you buy a 1200 macBook and replace all of the above for easily more that 1000 euro's
either way you are out of a lot of extra money that really shouldn't have been like that



right: so according to you 0.5% of new mac buyers will own FW peripherals, eventhough I question that number, you are also forgetting about mac owners who were waiting to upgrade.
say that makes somewhere between 1-4% of macBook users.
this article about the air states there are 1.433 million portable Macs sold per quarter, that's roughly 6.million portables per year.
1-4% of that is 60-thousand to 240-thousand new macBook users that need a firewire port each year!!!!

firewire might have lost in the external drive department, but for (semi)pro audio and (semi)pro video equipment it is even more a standard than it was.
and with consumers wanting to buy pro products more that they would need it, just for the name (hello macBook "pro"), I'd say that there really is a substantial need for a sub $1500 FW laptop from apple.

I have meanwhile edited my post and added some consideration on the file systems, that may corrupt any attempt to do meaningful measurements.

As for the installation: http://wiki.netbsd.se/How_to_install...ook_w/core2duo

And I'm planning some work to improve support of the new hardware in the current version of NetBSD if applicable.

No Firewire in a consumer laptop?

That's a joke right?

My five year old iBook just became a better video editing option than the latest Macbook.

Since Apple Support is now deleting threads on the topic, it's clear that a huge proportion of Mac users are expressing displeasure at the removal of Firewire and there will be implications of this in the sales numbers of the new laptops.

This is the kind of ham-fisted nonsense that Apple could have easily prevented.

• If Firewire is done as a mass consumer interface, just say so.
• If the interface was left off until the new 3200 standard is ready, just say so.
• If it will remain on all desktops and just high end laptops, just say so.
• If a USB version of Target Disk mode is in development, just say so.

The guessing game is going to hurt more than anything.
Apple just basically killed the consumer Firewire peripherals market.

If they had replaced Firewire's usefulness with USB3, then that would be one thing.
But to switch the most useful interface with a lesser quality one - and then ask for a premium price - is ridiculous.

Don't know about noticeable difference, but the fact that the price difference between the 2 processors to a company buying in Apple's volume is only $20, and the fact the backlit keyboard can't be more than $15 extra, HD difference not more than $10, should be enough to anyone not drinking the koolaid to deter them from not falling into this trap.

Sure Apple should be making money, but $300 on $45 worth of upgrades? C'mon $150 would have been fine, Apple could have made a 200+% profit on these 3 little bumps, but $300 is pretty much asinine.

I can agree Apples silence in such cases can be counterproductive and frustrating.


The expensive CPU and chipset is what accounts for most of the price of the MacBook.

Apple charged more for the black Macbook simply because it was black and people bought them.

I don't think it's a guess anymore. Apple has removed Firewire from their just released computer. The Macbook was their top selling computer. Firewire was their technology. Firewire has been dumped by Apple.

I want to know how many of you use Macbook as the only Mac in the household?

Apple's action is very logical - Macbook's market is totally different from MBP. MBP is likely to be the primary (or only) Mac in the house, so it gets all the goodies and more expensive. On the other hand, MB is a secondary laptop. Most likely you have another Mac in the house, which you can use to do the heavy duty work (like editing movies), or at least use that to get the DV tape to your mac.

So, my question is very simple - to all the existing Macbook owners, do you have another Mac in the household?

Yes. It would have helped though, if some media genius had asked if this was the case during yesterday's Q&A session.

By the way, the different between Firewire vs USB is almost the same as SCSI vs IDE.

Firewire has intelligence on the device, thus faster but more expensive than USB2. SCSI has intelligence on the device, thus faster but more expensive.

When SCSI was eliminated, there was also an outcry. One of the reason people love SCSI was exactly the same - ability to boot from external drive, and ability to run Powerbook as an external SCSI drive (remember Powerbook 100? the first of this kind). When Apple switched to IDE, it wasn't possible to boot from external USB drive. Firewire was the answer to that.

But as I can remember, the outcry against eliminating SCSI was as loud as (if not louder) today.

Well, life goes on. Apple moves on. technologies move on. Not all superior technologies survive.

And by the way, I still prefer SCSI. Much much much faster.... but 99% of the population don't care.

Personally, I would rather complain about the lack of USB ports (only 2?) than the lack of 1394.

They should have kept at least 4 pin firewire on the macbooks. If anything needed to go it was ethernet, they've been selling a dongle for over year because "notebook users use wireless", that's what they did with the macbook air. They could have kept firewire and just chucked their usb to ethernet dongle in the box.

I've got 4 non-professional firewire devices on my desk right now and wanted the new macbook. Instead it looks like I might cave and buy the white one, which more than pisses me off.

Maybe they'll do like they did with the second revision macbook pro and add it back if everyone complains enough.

Anyone who compares Firewire to SCSI has no real experience with SCSI.

SCSI was so frustrating I think I've repressed most of my memories of ever using that standard.
Having to put peripherals in a certain order, huge connectors that wouldn't connect...etc.

Firewire has been a dream by comparison.

Also there are lots of Firewire camcorders out there, not just hard drives.

Well, it's not Apple that is killing Firewire. All the wire protocols are going to fade away quickly. Wire will be replaced by waves. The Time capsule is the real future. In two years, everybody will have to switch to IPv6. Your desktop computer, your laptop, your camcorder, your iPod and your time capsule will have their own IP address. You will have a wireless connexion available almost everywhere: no need for flash memories anymore, no need for Blueray disks or mobile storage devices like Firewire-HD : your camcorder will be in direct connexion to your personal Timecapsule via IPv6 and a wireless 3/4G connexion. You will be able to upload/download data in real-time from/to home, even if you are 10 000 miles away.

Back at home, you'll maybe plug your Timecapsule to a Gb Ethernet router, if the WiFi 802.11n+++ throughput does not meet your needs...

Hi -

I writing this on my Gateway 14.1 inch wide-screen that I bought, new, at BB in March 2007 for $399. I wanted a MacBook, but couldn't justify the $1499 price. It's been a good unit, does everything that it is required to do for my personal and business applications and use, plus my middle school child uses it for all school related assignments. It cost $399.

So, when news of a sub-$900 MacBook began to circulate, I thought, "okay, I'll buy one". Yes, I was disappointed to read the released pricing schedule, $1,000 for the old Mac, $1,300 to $1,600 for the newest unit. Can't blame Apple, as the "rumored prices" were from others, and the new units may indeed be worth the asking prices. I cannot technically evaluate the units, but as a consumer, this $399 laptop doesn't need to be replaced as I was inclined to do just 48 hours ago. Will the prices drop as with the iPhone??

Regards,

I ordered one of the new 13" Macbooks last night only to cancel a few minutes later: no firewire? Seriously? I'm on my second 12" g4 powerbook, and due to a coffee mishap this week, will be looking for my 3rd. The rep at a local Apple Store told me to hold out; something better might be on the way. I was disappointed with the Air and now this...

Why not build a 13" Macbook Pro? Space? Heat? Scrap the internal optical drive and make it work!

j

So why not remove Ethernet?

True, but that's 5 to 10 years away. If firewire 800 is good enough for the Macbook Pro line it's good enough for the Macbook line. Either include Firewire in both lines, or make a 13" Macbook Pro.

j

We can now buy the best selling macbook ever, the white, with Firewire and Superdrive for less $$$.

People all over the intraweb are going nuts about lack of FireWire, and rightly so.
Best form of protest (besides contacting Apple directly) is NOT TO BUY ONE.

Leave 'em on the shelf until such times as Apple see the light and 'revise' with FireWire.

Such a farce.

For a very simple reason : because not everybody is WiFi-equipped these days. The building of the U I'm teaching at (that's why I've got an educational rebate) has no WiFi. So I have to use a good old Ethernet cable instead. WiFi is installed, but it does not work, for unknown reasons. I'm sure it'll be fixed some day, but when?

Ditto the glossy-only screen options.

What a massive shame. Fantastic products with fatal, and completely avoidable, flaws.

Agreed. And it's sad that Apple Support is trying to suppress ppl expressing their viewpoints on this. It'll just make customers madder, and it won't really fix the prob. \

Also, read my sig.

...

Whoa, I actually agree with you for once.




Wow... what're we trying to say here? That the two most expensive things on the MacBook are the Core2Duo CPU and FireWire, and that the cost of having FW is comparable to the cost of the Intel CPU?

Seems very unlikely. Didn't they use to have FW on iPods?

...

+100000000. And I've seen it come down like this a number of times.

You know what I think it is, this time? Steve thinks he's 'seen the future' and it's the MacBook Air.

So, the future of the MacBook is now

- remove any port that Steve deems 'unnecessary'. Absolute minimalism here.
- remove the optical drive
- sacrifice all else for 'thin, thin, thin'. Fashion statement uber alles.


Thing is, not everyone wants that, necessarily. Maybe even most don't want that. The MB Air is a niche product, more or less. It may become mainstream eventually, but it isn't there yet. So it's suitability as a template for the consumer line is questionable at this point in time.

But Steve, as per usual, is dragging everyone into HIS future, quite a bit earlier than they'd like. He's done it before. Sometimes it works out great, sometimes it doesn't.

-

You know I have to admit ...amidst the Steve Jobs' health scare a part of me
hoped that he'd retire.

Steve is Jekyll and Hyde. As a visionary he can take your breath away with some of his deft decision making but the luddite in him causes the most boneheaded decision.

The Macbook Pro has to stand on its own. You cannot continue to hobble other products in deferrence to the MBP.

if people want a 15"+ screen - MBP
If people want a discrete GPU- MBP
if people want ExpressCard- MBP

That and other MBP features are more than enough to create a line of demarcation betwen
Macbook and Macbook Pro.

Steve Jobs reality is one of those parable stories in which a person asks for something wonderful and gets it ...albeit in a most twisted and uncouth way.

I think you're probably right and I don't think this is gonna work out great.

I've been using Macs for almost 20 years now and in every previous clanger of a gear change, the reasoning behind it has involved technological and ease-of-use improvements.

If Apple had taken away Firewire and given us USB 3, that would have made sense. If Apple had taken away the matte option as standard and made pros pay for it, that would have been annoying but, again, it would have made sense.

To strip away basic, vital functions from professional and standard consumer machines makes no sense at all. Many people - pros or not - simply will not buy laptops with glossy screens because they're harder to look at, harder to work with and are great for triggering tension headaches.

Complaints are all over the web about the firewire and screen issues now - everyone from self-proclaimed fanboys at MacWorld to Jason O'Grady, not to mention the scores of mac users on forums.

I'm sitting here with £3000 in my pocket and wondering what the hell to do with it now. I'd imagine enough other people are in the same boat to make this, at the very least, a slightly disappointing launch day for Apple. Judging by the post deletions on their own forum, I'd say it might even have been a very disappointing day.

There's a big difference between inspired leadership and vainglorious leadership.

The MacBook Air is such a niche product that it may very well die in a years time.

Its a funny thing, I've been an avid supporter of Apple products over the years and have bought many pieces of Apple kit as well as recommending Macs to friends and family alike.
Now here's the thing. Just recently I have been asked for an honest opinion and purchasing advice as regards a home computer for a school child. While I really wanted to be able to recommend an Apple purchase I really could not due to three main factors.

1: The market domination of Windows PC's in schools.
2: The increasingly frustrating trend of Macs becoming more form over function (you get a better deal on a PC tech wise) , which brings me to...
3: Price. That is the real deal breaker. Never mind running Windows on a Mac via BootCamp et al. Money talks.

So the purchase of a new HP Pavillion with dual core etc. etc. was made and you know what... the thing is, it's a beautiful piece of kit and half the price of a Mac! Damn I hate myself.

The current debacle over the 'new' MacBook less FireWire has done nothing to shore up any faith that I may have had left in Apple. It looks like they are heading down the wrong path with Steve blindly leading the way, It's a one way street. HIS way. Pissing off your loyal user base is certainly not the way to go, neither is overpriced, under specced machines. "But its sooo pretty!" Who cares! Maybe it's time for Steve to go.

What Pavillion did you get. I noticed this one is pretty popular and it absolutely embarasses the wackbook in comparison.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....de=23-750059-2

Less than $1300 gets you

15.4" screen
2Ghz C2D processor
4GB of RAM
320GB drive
Blu-ray playback
Digital Media Reader
256MB Dedicated video memory
Modem
HDMI and eSATA/USB combo port
Expresscard 34
Firewire

I still have an iBook, which is my only Mac, and when my iBook dies I will replace it with a Macbook. I have no problem whatsoever with the lack of Firewire, and I like the glossy screen. I have other computers, though, but no other Macs.

Man I would kill if the higher end Macbook would have a 1440 by 900 resolution option. I'd be willing to even pay a few extra hundred for that. Also Firewire, I hardly knew thee....

You know, for those with the last generation Macbooks and Macbook PRos? I say wait for REV B. Maybe Apple could pleasantly surprise us!

Yes these def should have been bumped upto 1440 x 900.

EDIT: WOW, I've never really paid attention or looked at the macbook pro's as I would never even think of buying something that big or heavy, but I guess I assumed since they are always touted so highly that they would be rocking 1920 x 1200. I just looked on Apple's site and it says they are 1440 x 900. WTF??? The only 15" notebook I ever bought was a mid-grade Dell back in 2003/2004 and that had 1920 x 1200. And that was 4-5 years ago!!!

I'm typing this on an iBook G4 that has a cracked screen so it is hooked up to an old HP monitor, and I couldn't be happier. Does that convince anyway that these new laptops are nothing special?

Here are my 2 Cents on the new MacBook.

The MacBook is a consumer product. It always has been and it always will be. It won't have all of the features of a Pro model. We should all be thankful that the new Macbooks were even given such great graphics among MANY other very very nice upgrades.

For me, and I would only assume many other people, the lack of a firewire is a NON ISSUE. I am a college student. I have an external hard drive and a digital camera, both of which have USB cords. Along with my printer, those are the only peripherals I use. To the average consumer, I would assume that is about all of the types of peripherals one might use. I have never once in my life needed a firewire cord other than when using old school iPods.

I don't think Steve would go out on a whim and delete a firewire port from his BEST SELLING PRODUCT EVER without extensive market research. Clearly, his research must have shown than on the whole, not a great deal of his consumers use firewire. People who are heart broken over the firewire issue are either a minority of computer users or are expecting too much out of a compact consumer apple product.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Panasonic AG-HMC150

Panasonic's new AVCHD prosumer camera that records 1080i. Uses HDMI and USB ports, NO FIREWIRE.

Its always telling when someone talks about some great PC. How often people don't tell which PC it is.

"The Macbook is a consumer product" nonsensical statement. Every Macbook until October 14th has had Firewire thus any correlation you attempt to make between Firewire being a Pro only feature will be easily repudiated.

Assuming anything is foolhardy. Technicians use Firewire often to rescue hard drives or transfer files easily using Target Disk Mode. TDM is one of those features that you might not realize the power until it saves your bacon or makes transferring files much easier. It's not gone.

All the market research in the world doesn't ameliorate the simple facts. Preceding Macbooks have always had Firewire. The relative cost of the technology must be low as Apple created the format and purchased Zyante

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._5/ai_84450485

The best selling HP Pavillion has Firewire, card reader and Expresscard 34 slots. What's Apple's excuse for removing a feature that is on most PC consumer laptops?

I think it's very telling that the excuses given for the removal of a feature that was replaced with nothing center around silly anecdotes or banal logic and correlations.

With connectivity ..more is almost always preferrable to less.

I understand your points about the old MacBook, but I think you failed to understand my points about the new MacBook. Steve Jobs is not an idiot. He single handedly leads the computer industry. If he made a choice to drop a certain type of port from his best selling line of computers of all time, he must have had good evidence to support his decision. If firewire is the only means of rescuing harddrives and transferring data, then clearly this would have been a bad decision. Apple is not that stupid, however. I am not a computer EXPERT, so I can't rattle of different means of doing what you described off the top of my head, but i guarantee you there are ways to solve those issues without a firewire port. The times are changing in the computer industry and Apple clearly feels as though its time to phase out firewire.