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Apple announces new 13-inch MacBook - Page 13

post #481 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Yes but %60 of them add Firewire. I don't mind if Apple takes the feature away and I just have to pay for it but they've taken a feature away that cannot be added. Fact.

Apple thwarts internal expansion so we must be more strict about missing features.

Well, there are USB converters out there. For most PC laptops under $1K, you have to get an express card for FW, so I suppose you could get a USB converter. I don't disagree with many of the complaints here. If FW were truly as useless as Apple claims, then very few people would complain, but there are tons of unhappy prospective buyers. I can understand their frustration.
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post #482 of 518
they need an upgrade to the old 12" powerbook, give us firewire 800 and an express card slot, but with the 12" footprint

the macbook pro's are nice, but they are too big for some things, even photographers at work are holding onto their trusty 12" powerbooks that go everywhere with them, they are already bringing along a ton of gear and require a full featured, fast, reliable apple computer

at least this will drive down the price on the previous generation, refurbs will be nice, the $999 white one isn't bad either, too bad it's white though

c'est la vie, apple gives and apple takes...
post #483 of 518
they need an upgrade to the old 12" powerbook, give us firewire 800 and an express card slot, but with the 12" footprint

the macbook pro's are nice, but they are too big for some things, even photographers at work are holding onto their trusty 12" powerbooks that go everywhere with them, they are already bringing along a ton of gear and require a full featured, fast, reliable apple computer

at least this will drive down the price on the previous generation, refurbs will be nice, the $999 white one isn't bad either, too bad it's white though

c'est la vie, apple gives and apple takes...
post #484 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by desides View Post

Trouble is, the MacBook is a consumer level product.

I've been thinking about that. Looking at how it is constructed, the hardware it has, and the price point it meets, it is NOT a consumer notebook by any stretch. It competes with 13" "pro" notebooks like the Dell XPS and Sony Vaio SR. Consumers, in general, don't spend $1600 on a notebook anymore. Nothing about it says "price conscious."
post #485 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebook View Post

Well, there are USB converters out there. For most PC laptops under $1K, you have to get an express card for FW, so I suppose you could get a USB converter.

An expresscard is literally portable PCI Express card. It's like adding a FW card to a Mac Pro. A USB converter (if one existed) is... a converter and won't even work for most of the uses that most people are mentioning here.
post #486 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

I've been thinking about that. Looking at how it is constructed, the hardware it has, and the price point it meets, it is NOT a consumer notebook by any stretch. It competes with 13" "pro" notebooks like the Dell XPS and Sony Vaio SR. Consumers, in general, don't spend $1600 on a notebook anymore. Nothing about it says "price conscious."

Hear hear $1600 is NOT consumer pricing.

$800 is a "nice" laptop to most consumers. I think that the $1599 Macbook should have been a Pro model but then let's look at this logically. Could they have shoe horned in an expresscard slot and discrete graphics?

I think form has hampered function here preventing a small MBP.
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post #487 of 518
WOW... is this thread gonna hit 500 posts? Amazing.

Oh, and check out my sig.

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post #488 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

How many of the people defending lack of Firewire in the MacBook actually believe what they are saying? If Apple had continued to offer Firewire in the MacBook, these same people would be praising Apple because:

"Firewire is so superior to USB"

"MacBook offers high end features not found on bargain basement laptops"

"Target Disk Mode make Macs so much superior to PCs"

But now that Apple dropped Firewire, these same people will just say "Who needs it anyway?"

No matter what Apple does, the Apple defenders will be right there to rationalize and defend them. If Apple completely changes direction, the Apple defenders will also change their story and contradict themselves right along with Apple. Instead of flip-flopping back and forth, why don't you stand by your beliefs?

There will be no video iPods. Nobody wants to watch video on iPods.

Apple will not make a cell phone.

Apple will never switch to Intel processors.

Who needs automatic memory allocation? Just click Get Info and change the memory yourself.

Who needs preemptive multitasking or memory protection since Macs never crash?

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post #489 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

I've been thinking about that. Looking at how it is constructed, the hardware it has, and the price point it meets, it is NOT a consumer notebook by any stretch. It competes with 13" "pro" notebooks like the Dell XPS and Sony Vaio SR. Consumers, in general, don't spend $1600 on a notebook anymore. Nothing about it says "price conscious."

"Consumer notebook" is not synonymous with "budget pricing."
post #490 of 518
AI is a site for computer enthusiasts.

I think the reality is that I'm a computer enthusiast and
even though I may not utilize the technology in the same
way as others here I realize that a premium brand like Apple
should be delivering technology that is superior. Jobs loves
to state that Apple makes the best computers available but
what exactly does that mean?

Fierwire is superior technology that was available to anyone
who chose a Mac. Now for the sake of design..we've lost
FW and that doesn't sit well with me or others that are actually
seeing the benefits of this superior technology.
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post #491 of 518
Ok, what about the white macbook? Price/value wise where is it among other notebooks?

First time to touch this thing at apple store, and I guess its love at first sight!! It is a heck of a sturdy notebook, my only worry is that the screen is a one piece thing, besides being glass, so you break it you.........

Why is everybody comparing the higher end of the MB with other pcs I mean why are not you comparing the aluminium MB entry price to other MB?!
post #492 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnaAhlawy View Post

Ok, what about the white macbook? Price/value wise where is it among other notebooks?

First time to touch this thing at apple store, and I guess its love at first sight!! It is a heck of a sturdy notebook, my only worry is that the screen is a one piece thing, besides being glass, so you break it you.........

Why is everybody comparing the higher end of the MB with other pcs I mean why are not you comparing the aluminium MB entry price to other MB?!


The white Macbook isn't a horrible value but it's not that good either. I think that it's reasonable to expect graphics performance that's on par with the avg notebook in 2009 and with the X3100 graphics in the WMB you're behind the pack.

Yes ..do not break the new Alu Macbook glass or you're in for a world of hurt. While the unibody chassis is probably stronger and less impervious to damage the screen is going to cause a lot of warranty battles between customers and Apple.
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post #493 of 518
Well since firewire doesn't matter to me because I have an iMac at home, I went to the Apple Store tonight to touch and caress the new MacBooks and see them in person. Honestly, they're spectacular. Sturdy. Gorgeous. Sleek in design and use. The trackpad is a real innovation. After using that for a few minutes I tested out the old white machine and I was actually annoyed I had to press a separate button on the trackpad.

So it's on order. And I can't wait. I can definitely understand the angst of those of you with a bunch of FW peripherals, and sorry I couldn't stay with you in no-purchase solidarity, but I need it... and I think it's the perfect machine for me.
post #494 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiMac View Post

The MacBook Air is such a niche product that it may very well die in a years time.

Its a funny thing, I've been an avid supporter of Apple products over the years and have bought many pieces of Apple kit as well as recommending Macs to friends and family alike.
Now here's the thing. Just recently I have been asked for an honest opinion and purchasing advice as regards a home computer for a school child. While I really wanted to be able to recommend an Apple purchase I really could not due to three main factors.

1: The market domination of Windows PC's in schools.
2: The increasingly frustrating trend of Macs becoming more form over function (you get a better deal on a PC tech wise) , which brings me to...
3: Price. That is the real deal breaker. Never mind running Windows on a Mac via BootCamp et al. Money talks.

So the purchase of a new HP Pavillion with dual core etc. etc. was made and you know what... the thing is, it's a beautiful piece of kit and half the price of a Mac! Damn I hate myself.

The current debacle over the 'new' MacBook less FireWire has done nothing to shore up any faith that I may have had left in Apple. It looks like they are heading down the wrong path with Steve blindly leading the way, It's a one way street. HIS way. Pissing off your loyal user base is certainly not the way to go, neither is overpriced, under specced machines. "But its sooo pretty!" Who cares! Maybe it's time for Steve to go.

But the best selling Mac ever, with firewire and superdrive, has comes down from $1299 to $999. It comes with an OS that has a level of stability and security that you cannot buy on a PC at any price, plus apps that are easier and more integrated to use than anything on a PC - and it's $300 cheaper than ever before.

Isn't anybody happy about that?

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #495 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by applebook View Post

The fact remains that most consumer PC laptops do not have firewire.

Yes they do, but most have 4-pin FW 400.

Most PC laptops are the 15.4" variety, so it's trivial to include ExpressCard, S-Video/VGA out, more USB ports (3-4), Ethernet/modem, some have HDMI out as well.
post #496 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness View Post

Yes they do, but most have 4-pin FW 400.

They don't come with it automatically. Generally you have to add it. 4 pin FW isn't all that useful.

Quote:
Most PC laptops are the 15.4" variety, so it's trivial to include ExpressCard, S-Video/VGA out, more USB ports (3-4), Ethernet/modem, some have HDMI out as well.

With all those ports they are thicker, heavier, and made of clunky plastic hat creaks.
post #497 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

They don't come with it automatically. Generally you have to add it. 4 pin FW isn't all that useful.



With all those ports they are thicker, heavier, and made of clunky plastic hat creaks.

While my laptop may be thicker, it doesn't creak, and the weight/size is a decent trade-off to have an affordable 15 inch laptop with plenty of ports, but it's fine to have lots of style, just don't bitch when Apple takes away your options or changes $2000 to get those ports back.

With my $700 laptop, I still have 4 USB ports, VGA/S-video out, ethernet/modem (which I haven't used 56k in 10 years, 4-pin FW (which is still FW, but it lacks the power pins), and an ExpressCard slot. And a 8x DVD burner, which up until recently, Apple still charged a premium for on the MB. It's like a $25 part, you can even buy them online and install them in older PC laptops if you wanted to.

While I love OSX, all the style in the world doesn't mean shit to me if I don't see a good value in that $1300 MB. 160 GB and 2 GB of RAM is BS for that price, the 9400 isn't that great (better than Intel, but that still not saying much - it's worse than the 8600M), but it's so thin and purdy, and I think that's all that matters to Apple and most people anymore, or at least they are putting up with losing some features, I'm surprised that they just didn't pull the DVD drive while they were at it, people would rationalize that too, to defend Apple.
post #498 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmaster View Post

Well since firewire doesn't matter to me because I have an iMac at home, I went to the Apple Store tonight to touch and caress the new MacBooks and see them in person. Honestly, they're spectacular. Sturdy. Gorgeous. Sleek in design and use. The trackpad is a real innovation. After using that for a few minutes I tested out the old white machine and I was actually annoyed I had to press a separate button on the trackpad.

So it's on order. And I can't wait. I can definitely understand the angst of those of you with a bunch of FW peripherals, and sorry I couldn't stay with you in no-purchase solidarity, but I need it... and I think it's the perfect machine for me.

edmaster...no problem brother. You have an iMac and so you still have access to what you need should a FW product be the best choice. For me...I have a Mac mini but I don't want to try to do audio/video. In the future my needs may change and I could afford to have a laptop with USB only but right now I cannot afford it functionality wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness View Post


While I love OSX, all the style in the world doesn't mean shit to me if I don't see a good value in that $1300 MB. 160 GB and 2 GB of RAM is BS for that price, the 9400 isn't that great (better than Intel, but that still not saying much - it's worse than the 8600M), but it's so thin and purdy, and I think that's all that matters to Apple and most people anymore, or at least they are putting up with losing some features, I'm surprised that they just didn't pull the DVD drive while they were at it, people would rationalize that too, to defend Apple.


I think this sums it up nicely. I like OS X a lot but it's not that much superior to Vista to forgo on much better hardware on the PC side. I think at times Apple calls our bluff and frankly for many of us they will not win this game of chicken. Sure they'll make millions of sales but I've been on the sales side of the process and consumers are often unaware of the long term limitations of their purchases but in a few years when the aluminum case is rather passe and USB 3.0 is all the rage today's Macbook owners may feel a bit closed in and envious. We'll see.
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post #499 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness View Post

While I love OSX, all the style in the world doesn't mean shit to me if I don't see a good value in that $1300 MB. 160 GB and 2 GB of RAM is BS for that price, the 9400 isn't that great (better than Intel, but that still not saying much - it's worse than the 8600M), but it's so thin and purdy, and I think that's all that matters to Apple and most people anymore, or at least they are putting up with losing some features, I'm surprised that they just didn't pull the DVD drive while they were at it, people would rationalize that too, to defend Apple.

Really? Lenovo has a notebook with 80GB HD, 1GB RAM, 800MHz FSB, no bluetooth, slower Intel graphics for $1,200.
post #500 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by desides View Post

"Consumer notebook" is not synonymous with "budget pricing."

Fair enough, but it doesn't have the specs of a consumer notebook either. It's a prosumer/executive notebook at best.
post #501 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

With all those ports they are thicker, heavier, and made of clunky plastic hat creaks.


O RLY?

Seriously T, if Apple put out a MacBook with a 15" screen, card slot, and a generous number of ports (including FW), the only thing you'd have to worry about is how many Apple Store employees will get trampled by the mobs of consumers rushing into buy 'em.

I don't think anyone reasonable doubts that.

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post #502 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

The white Macbook isn't a horrible value but it's not that good either. I think that it's reasonable to expect graphics performance that's on par with the avg notebook in 2009 and with the X3100 graphics in the WMB you're behind the pack.


Yah, the graphics performance is quite pathetic with the white PlastiBook. That said, the new price and the fact that it still has FW make it more attractive to me than Steve's new MetalBooks.

And yes, I have played with the MetalBooks at my local Apple Store. Like the casing, new glass & LED-backlit screen, and the four-finger trackpad gestures, but Steve's yanking of FW ultimately forces me to give him a one-finger gesture.

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post #503 of 518
Another year, another batch of bitchy whiny babies.
post #504 of 518
Well, I think from a marketing poit of view (and I am not a pro in that )Apple did a nice thing, I mean they clearly seperated their customers to "consumer-level" and "pro", so if you need the FW go pro

I think the MB is much more beautiful than the MBP, as it has less empty space all around the keyboard, besides the weight of course.

Maybe January 09 will bring along something new to replace the white MB . Also, I think apple are clever enough to provide all the functionality FW used to present or even more using either the new display port (and the necessary cables and adaptors), moreover, I think the 15" and 17" MBP will get another performance kick with the intro of snow leaopard in Jan 09. So as usual, patience is a virtue with apple.
post #505 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by KamiNoYadoru View Post

Another year, another batch of bitchy whiny babies.

Simplistic. And even if it was true, you'd be guilty of bitching and whining about "bitchy whiny babies".

See my sig.

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post #506 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnaAhlawy View Post

Well, I think from a marketing poit of view (and I am not a pro in that )Apple did a nice thing, I mean they clearly seperated their customers to "consumer-level" and "pro", so if you need the FW go pro.

Yeah, it's a shakedown, I think most of us get that. Cripple up the MacBook good and proper, so that more ppl have to shell out $2000+ for the MB Pro. Well, that is, if they don't get pissed and go back to Windows.

Just 'cuz we understand the reasoning, doesn't mean it's not a shakedown.

See my sig.

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post #507 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

O RLY?

Seriously T, if Apple put out a MacBook with a 15" screen, card slot, and a generous number of ports (including FW), the only thing you'd have to worry about is how many Apple Store employees will get trampled by the mobs of consumers rushing into buy 'em.

I don't think anyone reasonable doubts that.

...

I'm having trouble making the corrolation between notebook sales and the number of ports. Could that be because their is no correlation.
post #508 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I'm having trouble making the corrolation between notebook sales and the number of ports. Could that be because their is no correlation.

Way to selectively ignore most of the post.

Read my sig.

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post #509 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Way to selectively ignore most of the post.

Read my sig.

...

What else did you say?
post #510 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

What else did you say?

The illiterate says, "What?"

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post #511 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

O RLY?

Seriously T, if Apple put out a MacBook with a 15" screen, card slot, and a generous number of ports (including FW), the only thing you'd have to worry about is how many Apple Store employees will get trampled by the mobs of consumers rushing into buy 'em.

They do. It's the new 15" Macbook Pro. 15" screen, card slot and FW800.

The 13" MBP doesn't have a card slot or FW800 and has an integrated but decent GPU. On the other hand, it's also $400 cheaper. Oh sorry, added a Pro on there by mistake. Funny...looks just like it's Pro big brother. Hey lookie...it even drives a 30" ACD.

I bet a good number of graphic pros are thinking that's a pretty sweet update even with a $99 cable requirement.
post #512 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

The illiterate says, "What?"

...

Because you didn't say anything else. What are you going to do if the new MB is wildly successful?

There's little difference between the MBP and MB anymore. Only if you need a port the MB doesn't have or need better graphics do you need to get a MBP now. Okay, it wont play Crysis but it does manage a lot of other games pretty well.

http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/app...08-models.html
post #513 of 518
Quote:
They do. It's the new 15" Macbook Pro. 15" screen, card slot and FW800.

The 13" MBP doesn't have a card slot or FW800 and has an integrated but decent GPU. On the other hand, it's also $400 cheaper. Oh sorry, added a Pro on there by mistake. Funny...looks just like it's Pro big brother. Hey lookie...it even drives a 30" ACD.

I bet a good number of graphic pros are thinking that's a pretty sweet update even with a $99 cable requirement.

I think you are absolutely right. I will wait till Jan before grabbing my UMB (unibody ) I hope by then I can get it with Snow Leo and the necessary cables, besides I think its usually the safest thing with apple, ain't it?
post #514 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Oh sorry, added a Pro on there by mistake.

And that kinda detonates the whole point of your post.

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post #515 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Because you didn't say anything else.

I did, actually. Wow... the functional illiteracy is spreading.

Maybe it's pointless trying to discuss things on AI. Ppl see what they wanna see, read what they wanna read. Ah well.


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post #516 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Seriously T, if Apple put out a MacBook with a 15" screen, card slot, and a generous number of ports (including FW), the only thing you'd have to worry about is how many Apple Store employees will get trampled by the mobs of consumers rushing into buy 'em.

I don't think anyone reasonable doubts that.

...

It's important to keep your wishes grounded in reality though.

Jobs hates expansion options because he wants the customer to upgrade every 2-3 years.
That's why he limits PCI slots on the Mac Pro, and why a MacBook will never get a card slot.

I get that. I understand where he's coming from. This is why the lack of FW800 on the MacBook is such a big deal.
If you're going to lock up the expansion option, you can't take out an interface that reduces the supposedly upmarket Apple notebook to the same level as a useless PC wannabe.

I mean, if you can't use Firewire for Time Machine or Target Disk, can't use mid to pro level audio and video stuff, and have to use the default USB connection on peripherals like the Drobo, why spend the extra for a Mac?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #517 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

And that kinda detonates the whole point of your post.

...

Why? Because you can't understand that the two lines are barely seperated now?

Ooooh...it doesn't have FW800 or an expresscard slot. Two things I bet only a minority of MBP owners actually use.

If the 9400M works as well as the X1600 in my current MBP then I could use a MB ALU in place of my MBP for work.

What you wrote were the specs for the new MBP so go buy one. Otherwise you're just whining about price. Which has always been higher for Apple.

So your whole argument is essentially you wished to buy the MBP for $1299. Wah.
post #518 of 518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I mean, if you can't use Firewire for Time Machine or Target Disk, can't use mid to pro level audio and video stuff, and have to use the default USB connection on peripherals like the Drobo, why spend the extra for a Mac?

Oh, I dunno...because OSX works well? For all the students that purchased a MB without ever using FW the MB just became a much better deal.

Obviously FW is not the be all and end all of the Mac experience.
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