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Microsoft already on defense, cites "Apple Tax" in new emails - Page 2

post #41 of 91
10/14/08 at 9:37am
Microsoft makes great arguments with regard to the hardware...

But if I manufactured a car that crashed as many times a year as Windows crashes, I'd have been sued out of business years ago. I use windows on my Mac because I HAVE to for a couple of business programs I use... I own a first gen. MacBook Pro and it has ONLY ever crashed since I've owned it... in Windows. Luck? I think not... BTW, I once bought a Toshiba from a large box store to separate my business activities from my MAC... Out of the box, brand new from the manufacturer, I installed 2 anti virus programs, ran them and it found 3 viruses and one keystroke logger... Nuff Said. I will continue to thank Microsoft for their work on the Office suite, which I do use in MAC with few problems, but I'd never rely on a windows machine for anything, period! Bottom line, I don't care that Macs cost more, THEY WORK! Already looking forward to MacWorld in S.F.!!!
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post #42 of 91
10/14/08 at 9:43am
MS seems to not understand or choose not to understand that computers today are not like computers 10 years ago in term of function. Back then not everyone carried a laptop and not every house had a computer. Today, computers are the most important device at any house. With everything going digital (cameras, camcorders, music.. etc) people want their machines to be reliable and durable and cheap PCs are neither. This is why Mac sales are up faster than the competition. Apple being a HW and SW company can offer much better solutions (such as TC and TM worry free backup) that many customers are welling to pay higher price for. MS should start looking at their own products and how to improve them instead of trying to point out to the obvious.

We all know that Apple is more expensive than most PCs the same way BMW and Mercedes Benz are more expensive than most cars (even more expensive than SsangYong Chairman which used Mercedes Benz engines and transmission back in the late 1990s).
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post #43 of 91
10/14/08 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

Yeah, and the WinTel tax is to pay for antivirus and anti-malware software on a yearly basis and slow down your brand new system by 20% right out of the box.

Not to mention the confusing array of packaging/pricing for the OS. Leopard is 1 price, currently $103.99 on Amazon for the "Pro" version. Vista ultimate runs $179.99...or is it $267.49...or maybe $399.99 (not sure which to buy ) for the same level of features.
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post #44 of 91
10/14/08 at 9:44am
Microsoft is McCain to Apple's "Obama". Erratic campaign, accusations of elitism, recycled talking points detached from reality, and bad assumptions that people don't know what they're getting.
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post #45 of 91
10/14/08 at 9:48am
Hey, whatever gets Apple to stay competitive the better. The only reason the iPods dropped so quick was because of the Zune. I love OSX and really hate using Windows but Apple does charge to much, they don't give me a lot of choices for hardware, especially since I hate glossy screens. So I hope M$ pushes further and gets Apple to lower prices, offer a pro-sumer Mac for use poor designers and puts Blu-Ray in their machines instead of hoping we all switch to the iPhone and Apple TV.
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post #46 of 91
10/14/08 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iReality85 View Post

Riiight... here's where we que the sarcasm:

because Apple's plastic coated iPhones and Macbooks have never cracked...

and Apple's white Macbooks have never stained...

and combo drives are fantastic

and we all, of course, look at the bottoms of our laptops every chance we get...

and Apple manufactures its own batteries...

and chicklet keys are pleasing and aesthetic.

I think I made my point.

All plastic stains, but weak frames make the notebooks crackle.

I was criticizing tray-loading DVD players.

When carrying a notebook you can see the bottom, and PC bottoms look hideous.

I didn't say Failing batteries, I said Falling. Many of the PC's I receive from friends and family to repair, have a problem with the batteries faLLing, especially the Toshiba's. Yeah the latch fails after a while, never had that problem with my mac laptops and I owned 6.

I don't think Apple has chicklet keys, instead the letters in the keyboard are punched out from the keys and filled with a semi-transparent plastic for backlighting.

Ron Paul

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Ron Paul

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post #47 of 91
10/14/08 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic_Al View Post

Microsoft is McCain to Apple's "Obama". Erratic campaign, accusations of elitism, recycled talking points detached from reality, and bad assumptions that people don't know what they're getting.

You mean Microsoft to Apple is more like this?

Ron Paul

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Ron Paul

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post #48 of 91
10/14/08 at 9:55am
"$1,100 for extra software"? I bet they mean M$ Office and some other premium software that normal consumers don't use (Adobe Creative Suite, for example).
Too bad MS failed to mention that for Vista, most of the cheaper models don't run anything except Home Premium which is similar to XP Home (more holes than swiss cheese and I can't think of anyone who doesn't use XP Professional), where there are less security features. I bet a portion of that $1,100 also goes to a stronger OS, if your hardware can support it.
Too bad a laptop isn't upgradable as much as a desktop because a stronger version of Windows OS may not run on a cheap PC. Factor in low battery life (ads stating a whopping 2hrs, 15 mins. and a la Aero) and some extra weight (5.4 lbs. MBP compared to 6-7 lbs. PC), and there's no contest. I didn't get a Mac for just prettiness, but for the power, simplicity, and additional productivity.

M$, solve your problems and don't even comment on hardware until your software's system requirements actually run on hardware that's "Vista-Capable" or "Vista-Ready"!
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post #49 of 91
10/14/08 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeonit View Post

redmond forgets to mention that macs come with a huge software package preoinstalled... out of the box PCs don't include that sotware... thus the original pricing of PCs must be adjusted for that... and they forget to mention resale value, and cost of ownership... a used mac is worth money after 2-3 years, a used PC is hard to sell... most people are happy to give them away for free, if there's someone who wants it, LOL...

Most new PCs come with a bunch of crappy teaser applications that the companies who specialize in PC application software pay the manufacturers to put there. Much of it is utterly useless and the only practical way to get rid of it all is to start by reformatting the disk and reinstalling the OS. But that requires that you have a copy of the OS on DVD-ROM. Almost no PC manufacturer will supply you with that DVD these days, and the reason why they do not has nothing to do with cost. They don't do it because if they did, the application software companies would be less inclined to pay them to pre-install the teaser applications. I would never, ever buy a PC without a clean copy of the OS on DVD, and people who do are idiots.
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post #50 of 91
10/14/08 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

M$, what are YOU scared of?

Perhaps the Mac experience? Get a Mac, it just works! The horrible Windows and M$ experience?

Or perhaps this?

Next Apple moves will be Books and Games
http://spidouz.wordpress.com/2008/09...oks-and-games/

M$, BEWARE YOUR DAYS ARE COUNTED, because the day 25% of people use Mac, Windows and M$ will be history in three years. MS is only maintained by ignorance and inertia.

I love looking at these mockups and dreaming..... if only Apple made this or that one.

Why are the mockups always so much better than the real thing?
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post #51 of 91
10/14/08 at 10:02am
It is true that Windows Machines are easier to upgrade. There are hundreds of differently configured machines that run windows and it is easy to upgrade just about any component. But most people don't. Most people - if they do anything at all - add ram. Most people will get someone else to add a network card, or whatever is required, which in itself carries a cost. As usual it is not the price of the machine that counts but the TCO both in terms of the $'s and hassle. If Apple found that they were losing significant sales because they made their machines hard to upgrade, as opposed to gaining sales because their machines are ready out of the box, Apply would change its ways. Beyond a fundamentally different philosophical approach to hardware and software design that dictates Apple's direction at all times, Apple also carries out a lot of research and makes sound business choices based on that research. For that reason Apple will never appease the gaming enthusiasts who wants a completely configurable low cost Apple Tower. Not only does the concept run against Apple's design philosophy, but there just isn't enough money in it. So whilst MS and others can rant and rave, and often they have a point, it makes little difference. Apple will always march to its own beat no matter how much it pisses MS off.
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post #52 of 91
10/14/08 at 10:03am
You can cite all these examples of "standards" that WinTel boxes have, but the question boils down to something very simple: what good is it?

For the end-user, Apple products are simple, intuitive, and reliable. They sell BECAUSE they aren't loaded with gazillions of ports, connectors, wires, and other nonsense that people don't understand or need. Pro or power users who do need all the extra bells, horns, and whistles can buy a Mac Pro, and they're willing to pay for it because it is an investment in their business or hobby.

I think Microsoft is missing the point here.
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post #53 of 91
10/14/08 at 10:04am
people make the switch because of their own personal preference, there aren't that many mac ads being run in the UK and I've not once been into an empty apple store.

Microsoft are just pissed and defensive because Apple are doing what Microsoft could NEVER do, create great end to end products that "just work", we have 5 windows laptops in our house, none of which can share files, music and photos on the network as easily as a group of macs can. Trying to get these Windows machines to talk to each other just reminds me why I made the switch. I'm sure no one would be complaining if the price was lower, but that's just it, it isn't, and it's up to every one to make their own personal choice as to which system is best for them, if shelling out £1000's of pounds to migrate is what they want to do, no amount of counter ad campaigns are going to stop them.

As for the defects, name me ONE manufacturer in general that hasn't put a product out on the market that doesn't fail at some point? I'm happy that Apple produce a limited amount of products at a higher cost to help develop future products (I can afford it, I don't care, I could have bought a top of the line Windows machine but I didn't), because I know I'll more than likely buy those products in the future.
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post #54 of 91
10/14/08 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

You know, for half the price or less I'm willing to deal with "ugly". Sorry, but I'd much rather spend my cash and get a bigger monitor, better specs, or more features than pay more just for "pretty". For me, the only reason to buy mac hardware is because it's the only legit way to get OSX.

I know somebody who is exactly that budget-conscious. Which is why he doesn't have a single piece of Apple hardware. But he does run OS X that he bought from the Apple Store.
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post #55 of 91
10/14/08 at 10:08am
I also think that Microsoft's jabbing at Apple's hardware is fairgame. Apple has stated many times in their "I'm a Mac" commercials that it is because of their combined hardware + software that Macs "just work" (there by implying that both Windows and 3rd party hardware (Dell, Sony, etc.) are crap). It doesn't matter that MS is software-only as opposed to Apple. Apple invited the attacks and MS is justified in its criticism.
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post #56 of 91
10/14/08 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic_Al View Post

Microsoft is McCain to Apple's "Obama". Erratic campaign, accusations of elitism, recycled talking points detached from reality, and bad assumptions that people don't know what they're getting.

glad you told us whom you vote for. so relevant to the apple story here.
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post #57 of 91
10/14/08 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

I know somebody who is exactly that budget-conscious. Which is why he doesn't have a single piece of Apple hardware. But he does run OS X that he bought from the Apple Store.

that's not being budget conscious. you don't buy the same hw for less. you spend the same money and get more advanced hw, like 2 SLI nvidia highend video cards.
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post #58 of 91
10/14/08 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"Repurchasing software to make your Mac do all the things your PC does will cost you hundreds of dollars," the company said. "Buying a Mac means scrapping your software and buying new applications (for up to $1,100) that run on Mac, just to do what you can still easily do on a new PC with the applications you already have."

Microsoft also lambasted Apple for withholding a slew of hardware features from its Mac line that have been available on Windows PCs "for years," such as HDMI, Blu-Ray, eSATA, MediaCard Readers, built-in 3G, Fingerprint readers, and TV Tuners.

OK they are off target for the software bit - or have they forgotten BootCamp ?

But they are spot on for the hardware extensibility bit. Ever tried upgrading an iMac other then for memory? Replacing memory and HD in a MacBook is OK though.
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post #59 of 91
10/14/08 at 10:22am
MS just doesn't get it. They're ALWAYS in denial.
2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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post #60 of 91
10/14/08 at 10:25am
Hey Microsoft - thanks for the tip - without such an insightful note I would not have realized that all the various Apple computers that I have used over the years were such garbage by comparison. Whew I can finally give up paying for things that actually not only work but do what I want them to do.
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post #61 of 91
10/14/08 at 10:28am
From today's Apple Event:



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Thanks for listening to your...
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post #62 of 91
10/14/08 at 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic_Al View Post

Microsoft is McCain to Apple's "Obama". Erratic campaign, accusations of elitism, recycled talking points detached from reality, and bad assumptions that people don't know what they're getting.

Can you please keep your political cr4p out of this? Thanks.
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post #63 of 91
10/14/08 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

Microsoft are under attack from three directions and, whichever way they turn, they have someone behind them eating their lunch.
.

Well said. What does a scared animal do before saturating itself with its own urine and whimpering? It grandstands and makes a lot of noise.

Once again, as I'd like to see Microsoft thrive in a competitive ecosystem, my advice to shareholders is to start a movement to oust Ballmer and trim a layer or two of middle management.
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post #64 of 91
10/14/08 at 10:44am




Nice, but so much for rumors of $800 or $899 MacBooks.

Actually, it's a pretty big anticlimax, as Apple should've been hitting this pricepoint for a long time now. They used to.

Wonder if the stock is gonna take a mini-beating over this? \

...
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
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Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
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post #65 of 91
10/14/08 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by emulator View Post

glad you told us whom you vote for. so relevant to the apple story here.

Actually, could be relevant if the economy worsens by socialistic policies of the government that causes further tightening of the people's purse strings. We'll see...

But hey, it is only 21 days left until the election!

With that said, from an earlier post...

Sound like Mc Cain Tactics

(Originally Posted by AppleInsider)
made repeated (eight) accusations of an "Apple Tax."

Breeze: "Just Like the Mc Cain tactics- Do they really think everyone is that dumb?"

Not everyone, just certain supporters of the other candidate...

Besides, can't handle the truth about Obama's tax increases?

And should you get your change. Only you won't believe it, I'll be sure to remind you...

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #66 of 91
10/14/08 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Actually, could be relevant if the economy worsens by socialistic policies of the government that causes further tightening of the people's purse strings. We'll see...

But hey, it is only 21 days left until the election!

With that said, from an earlier post...

Sound like Mc Cain Tactics

(Originally Posted by AppleInsider)
made repeated (eight) accusations of an "Apple Tax."

Breeze: "Just Like the Mc Cain tactics- Do they really think everyone is that dumb?"

Not everyone, just certain supporters of the other candidate...

Besides, can't handle the truth about Obama's tax increases?

And should you get your change. Only you won't believe it, I'll be sure to remind you...

Look, I'm glad you like John McCain. Feel free to campaign for him...

...elsewhere.

Thanks. Same goes to Obama supporters.
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post #67 of 91
10/14/08 at 11:11am
Only real question left regarding the campaign is, will McCain merely lose, or will he get landslided?

...
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
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Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
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post #68 of 91
10/14/08 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Nice, but so much for rumors of $800 or $899 MacBooks.

Actually, it's a pretty big anticlimax, as Apple should've been hitting this pricepoint for a long time now. They used to.

Wonder if the stock is gonna take a mini-beating over this? \

...

I have the feeling that this will help Apple's college campus sales. The $1000 price barrier has long been broken by PC notebooks. This lower price point, combined with the education discount, may just see even greater penetration numbers for Apple on campuses.

Given the significant revamp in Apple's notebook lineup, I expect the stock price will be fine.
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post #69 of 91
10/14/08 at 11:19am
AAPL's down 7.05, to 103.21, as of this writing. Fair to say that the event underwhelmed?


....
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
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Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
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post #70 of 91
10/14/08 at 11:21am
Whats amazing is just how deeply Microsoft loves Macs and how apparently short of cash they are. It appears they are grumbling about the cost of filling their Mac needs.

Right on, MS, we all feel the pull of these amazing new Macs.

Microsoft -- here are some common-sense money saving tips to help you through this situation

* Don't be afraid to root through dumpsters -- there are many nice things that are just a little dirty! Clean them off and use them. Then you can use the saved money to buy a proper computer like a Mac running Leopard

* Turn the lights off when you're not in the room

* Cheaper cable TV

* Did you know the average person spends hundreds per year on nothing but coffee?

* There is no shame in WIC programs and food stamps. Microsoft employees should never go hungry.

* Many faith-based assistance centers can help you out with your financial and cognitive difficulties. Ask for help for what you can't handle.

* With the right assistance, you too can become a success and find the $50 or $100 premium it costs to get a reliable Apple computer. Never give up hope, Microsoft, good times are ahead.

STAY STRONG MICROSOFT..
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post #71 of 91
10/14/08 at 11:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

AAPL's down 7.05, to 103.21, as of this writing. Fair to say that the event underwhelmed?


....

This is why Warren Buffett is a rich man. He buys when everyone else is fearful or doutful. The stock will go back up.
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post #72 of 91
10/14/08 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboNerd View Post

This is why Warren Buffett is a rich man. He buys when everyone else is fearful or doutful.

The stock will go back up.


No doubt. But for reasons other than today's event.


...
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To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
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post #73 of 91
10/14/08 at 11:54am
When Microsoft is Right... THEY ARE RIGHT.

As a Macbook owner... I am underwhelmed. I wanted Blu-ray. My last laptop had fingerprint scanner, touch screen. Businesses love both these tools. They decreased the spec on the $1299 Macbook in terms of the processor. Steve calls Touchscreen useless but then says multitouch is better. I don't see it. Windows 7 will push touchscreens. You would think Apple would use their iPhone expertise to release a tablet...

Nokia Lumia 920, iPhone, Surface RT, Intel i3 Desktop with Windows 7 & Hackintosh, Power Cube G4

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Nokia Lumia 920, iPhone, Surface RT, Intel i3 Desktop with Windows 7 & Hackintosh, Power Cube G4

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post #74 of 91
10/14/08 at 12:00pm
In related news, nobody I know is buying a Hyundai Genesis.

It's still a Hyundai. I'll pay more for a Lexus because it's a Lexus.

A PC is still a PC, and they all suck.

I bought a Mac, loaded Windows XP on it, and it runs faster and better than any PC I've had to use in the past 12 years.

Microsoft, go F yourself. I hope you die a slow, painful death. Go dump more money into your R&D department so they can come out with BOB 2.
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post #75 of 91
10/14/08 at 12:01pm
I dunno... the macbooks look pretty good to me.

Nothing particularly evil about them. I hope the hard drive replacement instructions come out sooner than later. The 2.4ghz 13" model is catching my attention. Not enough HD, but it will last long enough until the 750GB drives come out and replacement can happen.

Overall, not a bad release. Not bad at all. 4GB maximum on the 13" is also very welcome. A very strong 13" machine under 2,000 is exactly what i want and they just released it today. The top-line machines also look strong. Quit whining.
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post #76 of 91
10/14/08 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

I dunno... the macbooks look pretty good to me. Nothing particularly evil about them.


No FireWire.


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Thanks for listening to your...
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To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
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post #77 of 91
10/14/08 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post

When Microsoft is Right... THEY ARE RIGHT.

As a Macbook owner... I am underwhelmed. I wanted Blu-ray. My last laptop had fingerprint scanner, touch screen. Businesses love both these tools. They decreased the spec on the $1299 Macbook in terms of the processor. Steve calls Touchscreen useless but then says multitouch is better. I don't see it. Windows 7 will push touchscreens. You would think Apple would use their iPhone expertise to release a tablet...

Oh goodness don't start with the tablet again...

Jimzip
"There's no time like the present, and the only present you'll never get, is time." - Me
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"There's no time like the present, and the only present you'll never get, is time." - Me
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post #78 of 91
10/14/08 at 1:14pm
Gosh what pathetic fools. At least Apple has a point to make whilst arguing their side.
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post #79 of 91
10/14/08 at 1:30pm
They've got a point.

For $600 plus the price of an ExpressCard, you can get a cheap Dell laptop with FireWire support. With Apple, you'll have to pay $1999 for this (yes, I know the old MacBooks are still available for now - but that won't last).

If MacBooks had any kind of expansion, the removal of FireWire would be a non-issue. But they don't. Why do Macs have to have hardware that's exponentially less useful than PCs that are less than half the price?
Proud member of AppleInsider since before the World Wide Web existed.
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Proud member of AppleInsider since before the World Wide Web existed.
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post #80 of 91
10/14/08 at 1:39pm
I think it goes without saying that there are a number of extra things you get when you purchase an Apple computer. Just take a look at their design video.

However, when reading this report, I quickly thought of a few issues that are spurred specifically from being a PC - nothing new really. I think its sort of sad how shallow MS statements are. There are obviously a ton of negative side effects that they fail to mention (costs of constantly upgrading your computer, time spent in maintaining a PC with all of the virus/spyware that's found online nowadays).
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