Apple releases new 15" MacBook Pro - Page 6

Fiasco? Some disappointing things, but not a fiasco. Many people here have had only good things to say, along with those who seem to find only bad things.

In my experience teaching computer lessons, which I described in an earlier post, I'm not looking for reflections. I'm looking for content on my student's screen and it's almost impossible to see due to the glare. When two people are looking on the same screen, there's no screen angle or laptop position that can solve the problem, so I alternate between craning my neck uncomfortably and just giving up on reading the screen and faking it. I don't see why this is a good thing, when my matte screen is perfectly usable in the same lighting environment.

I'm glad to hear that some people enjoy their glossy screens; but it doesn't make sense for those people to deny that glossy screens could cause problems for others. I know it's hard to believe, but really, what's more plausible: some people have legitimate issue with glossies, or those people are all imagining a non-existent problem?

By the way, I'm not commenting on the new MB/MBP screens specifically, which none of us have yet used, but on glossy laptop screens in general, which most of my students have.

I agree with your point except for # 3. Sony did this years ago. I'm not crazy about the black bezel and keyboard, either. I have to see the new MBP in person before I can say if I like it better aesthetically than the older models.

As I've stated over and again, I'm not denying that will be times when a few people will have a problem with a glossy screen. That's obvious.

The question is just how many people will have a problem, and how often.

Of course, the best would be to offer both. But there are likely financial reasons for not doing so. How would Apple split production?

What is the percentage who won't buy the machine because of the screen? 20%, 10%, 5%, 1%?

As the percentage comes down, it becomes more difficult to offer both. At some point, it will cost the company more money to offer it than to not get the sales. I know that sounds cold, but thats the way it is.

How Apple works with its dealers is also at stake. Many dealers won't handle options. Look at one of Apple's biggest resellers, Amazon, to see that.

Years ago, when Apple had the first colored iMacs, some colors sold very well, and others hardly sold at all. Best Buy argued with Apple that they should be able to order only the amount of colors they could sell, but Apple insisted they buy one of each, every time. That resulted in BB dropping the entire line. I can understand that.

So if retailers find that almost all of their customers buying MB and MBPs alike are asking for glossy, they won't want to carry a matte machine. Shelf space costs money, and they have to carry the cost of that non seller on their books. So they won't order them from Apple.

Most of those coming in wanting a matte machine will buy a glossy one if that's all they can get, so Apple will be producing even less of them.

It's like the 4GB iPhone. so few people were buying them that they quickly discontinued it. Same thing with other models.

Apple seems to think they've learned their lesson with matte screens, and have stopped producing them.

A few people will be unhappy, and that's sad. But they likely made the right choice. Time will tell.

You're right. I seem to recall that all the Quantel boxes I saw back in the day had glossy screens in semi-dark rooms. Most of the video post production work I've been involved with used glossy screens as well. I opted for a glossy screen on my MacBook Pro, but I guess my 15 years in the business are invalidated by my choice of a glossy screen on my laptop. I wouldn't even think of doing color correction on a laptop anyway. I guess that's why I paid so much money for 2 NEC MultiSync 2690 displays and an i1 display calibrator. You people screaming at the top of your lungs about glossy screens seem like you just picked up a meme and now get to bitch about it. How can anyone complain about glare from using a screen outside while also complaining about it not be color correct. Who color corrects outdoors with a laptop?

I don't notice it on a conscious level, but the brain is working nevertheless.
For instance, I suffer from very slight astigmatism. I don't have to use glasses, I see just fine without them. Yet, if I have a long day and I am already slightly tired, I can get some major headaches. I don't if I use my glasses. As far as my vision go, I see little difference with or without them. But without, my brain is just straining throughout the day to correct my vision.
That's the same problem with glares. They put a constant strain on the eyes and brain. That won't prevent me from working, but that will ensure I won't enjoy a headache free evening.


I know, I do the same thing with photography. It's actually some work for your brain, I know i had to train for quite some time for it. The difference is that my other eye doesn't blank, since its purpose it to be situation aware while my over eye is composition aware.

But it is training and it doesn't come naturally. For photography, it has a real purpose. Being both composition and situation aware makes it so I'm not surprised by objets getting into my composition or that I can spot something interresting going on outside of the narrow field of view. Kind of what like people with a Leica do with one eye.
But here, the training was worth it. I don't see the point of training myself to go past the drawbacks of a technology. I do believe that computing is past the day were the human was supposed to do the adaptation. I think it should be the other way around. Actually, wasn't it the selling point of Apple? Why should I be required to adapt myself to something unnatural and without benefits to me?


The problem is that you don't have to *think*. It's part of your survival wiring : something moves outside of your active field of vision (the *very* narrow spot where you see clearly), it draws your attention. Because it might be some kind of danger.
Actually, why do you think many pro photographers put gafer on the brand logo of their camera? Because they're all into "no-logo"? Nope... Because the white letter make a high frequency moving target that is *sure* to attract attention and make your subjects less spontaneous. Hide the logo under black gafer, and the camera just becomes a black fuzzy mass.
That's also why the military slash their face with a few streaks of dark green/gray. Just a couple of lines are enough to break the face recognition patterns of the brain if it isn't looking directly at it.

That's why mirror finish is bad. It just reflects really without breaking it. So, you get plenty of lines and high frequencies moving around on your screen, and this kicks into your brain priority list way higher than low frequencies mass on a matt screen...

Right...with all the discussions about the glossy display (which sucks IMO), we all forgot to mention the other hardware specs...which are....leaving the design things aside...mor than dissapointing. I mean...there's a better graphics CPU which combines dedicated and integrated graphics (right, Sony does this for some years now)...and that's it? No real speed bump.

All in all - underwhelming...I'd been waiting for half a year to replace may MBP..but..there's simply no product to buy.

I think people are getting out of sorts about appearance.

No matter how "bad" Apple's machines may look to some, they still look better than most all others.

While I'm not thrilled about the black keys, it really doesn't matter, and they don't look dirty as quickly as the white ones do. The bezel doesn't bother me at all.

I'm not really sure I get the big deal about these things.

Sony's dual GPU situation wasn't a full Nvidia chipset with the integrated GPU on the same die. This is all new stuff.

One more thing:

The new MBP is a bit wider and deeper in dimensions then the old one. Weight is the same. Is that progress?

The Macbook at 2 Kg lost a bit of weight. And looks like the MBP...it should be a small MBP.

So there's only the missing Firewire as a difference beteween MP and MBP. Thats stupid.

I definitely understand this. The only problem is that it's not quite fair to look at sales numbers alone to determine which options to offer. Most people don't realize that on the showroom floor, the downsides of a glossy screen are less apparent, so in a side-by-side comparison in that environment, a consumer might well choose the glossy screen. That same consumer goes home and has big glare problems in their living room and just figures that's how all laptops work -- you have to pull the shades and dim the lights. Few of these people are complaining because they don't realize there's an alternative, and in a snowball effect that alternative diminishes to the point where it has now disappeared for Mac laptop users.

Apple is usually the company that offers what it believes to be the most usable solutions, despite what the majority of consumers ask for (one-button mouse anyone?). In this case it seems to have sided with the mass market, lowest common denominator user base and left a lot of experienced users with distinct preferences out in the cold.

Well, hopefully someone will get the new machine tomorrow and post "this is amazing, the colors are deep and rich and they've somehow reduced the glare problem too!" and then this will all be irrelevant.

The muscles controlling your eyes, and the constant attempt of your eyes to find the proper focus is what's tiring you out. I wear glasses, and have the same problem with screens, with their brightness and fine type.


If glare is really bad, then you could have a problem, but usually, it's at a low level, and we do quickly ignore it. But, some people can't, and they have more problems. When I mentioned the one eyed microscope viewing, I didn't mention that there were always a few people who couldn't work with one eye. They needed t grey card in front of the other eye, and some couldn't do it at all.


Most people do this without thinking about it. A few can't. For them, it might always be a problem.


I think that;s an exaggeration of this problem. Rarely is the reflection going to flash around the screen causing problems.

You might note that even matte graphics monitors often come with "blinders" for the screen (or offer them as accessories), to keep the reflections away, that cause saturation, color change, and contrast reduction, that all matte screens are subject to to a high degree.

I'm not totally against matte screens, but if Apple thinks they don't have enough customers who really want them, and so can't provide them, one must make do. More PC laptops are also going glossy up and down the lines. At some point, it may be impossible to find a matte model anywhere.

Except you're not sitting down, and the laptop display is angled back more than it should be, and people don't usually operate a laptop computer 3+ feet away while standing up.

Furthermore, with a camera you can take a picture with a far greater depth of field than your eyes provide under the same lighting conditions. At normal working distance (~20") and typical ambient lighting intensities (not camera flash intensities), objects that are likely to be reflected in a glossy display will be far enough away that they'll be out of focus to your eyes and, hence, interfere less than you might imagine (and less than what was captured here with a camera and flash). Reflections will interfere more as ambient light levels increase, because the iris then closes down, which increases the depth of field. Counteracting the reflections, though, when ambient light levels increase and the iris closes, anything reflected gets dimmer; and if you can boost the intensity of the display, the reflection then interferes less.

This is all happening because people have been selecting glossy machines over matte models. This isn't an Apple thing.

If a fair number of people weren't happy with their new glossy machines, the movement towards them would have slowed down, or stopped altogether. It hasn't. It's accelerated.

Maybe Apple is again a bit ahead of the trends, or maybe not.

Certainly, if they felt their pro market still wanted matte in any more than small numbers, they would have continued to offer it. This isn't like discontinuing the floppy drive, or serial ports. They have nothing to gain in a technology sense from this.

Hi.

I am quite happy with the update, and in fact, I have just ordered my first MBP. YAY! Can't wait for it to arrive The order confirmation said it would be shipped in eight days, however, the estimated delivery date was November 3rd og 4th. Hope they aren't going to need a week to ship it from Ireland to Denmark :-|

However, one thing about the update bugs me: The Mini DisplayPort. I would so much rather have had a HDMI. But now that I haven't gotten that, what do I do, when I want to hook my MBP up to my Panasonic PZ85 plasma (42" 1080p)?

Is the Mini DisplayPort plug something Apple invented themselves? I would love to find a third-party Mini DisplayPort -> HDMI cable, instead of having to buy Apple's own Mini DisplayPort to DVI adapter (grr) and a DVI-HDMI cable.

Thanks in advance.

Rasmus

Question to those lazy gits who have enough time to wander around Central London during the day - are the new machines already on display at Regent st.? Want to go and check them for myself later on tomorrow (that is ... today ... Wednesday).

At first glance, this essentially external redesign of the new MBP 15" is somewhat disappointing as there are no improvements on the previous MBP in terms of the processor speed, weight, battery life, connectors ... I mostly surf and edit documents/presentations/spreadsheets and do no graphic work, so I don't care that much about the new NVIDIA chipset, nor do I care about the glossy screen as I am among those few 'lucky' ones being able to adapt my workplace according to the lighting - I understand the pain of the rest of you though for the lack of matte option

More importantly, this update has 1066 DDR3: the fact that very few - if any - have so far mentioned (having gone back thought the previous posts, I now see that only one person mentioned it ...). The new memory set is imho the most notable internal improvement over the old line, or any laptop for that matter.

But I still find the new line mostly appealing purely design-wise; in particular, the solution for the unique body, accommodating the screen and the tampered edges a la iPhone, and no ugly frames as per Macbook Air - albeit few aesthetic reasons can be put forward to justify the extremely annoying black keyboard

The glass touchpad also promises to be one of those things to add to the general ergonomics.

In this context, it seems that the winner may be ... the new MB 13" which has almost all the externals and internals of the 15" minus a hefty sum of money. If only they could beef-up the processor speed to at least 2.2GHz, I would have probably been a taker even at GBP 950. Yet to be seen...

Thanks. I have what is now called the i1Basic. So, can I safely assume that you do not have reflectivity issues or glass coatings "tricking" the spectrophotometer, or do you use a method to compensate for that. I have up to now avoided glossy displays.

The newer Nvidia card would perform slightly better. Go with the new 2.4.

I personally love the new MBP and am going to order one ASAP. The thing is that everyone on here was hoping for way too much from apple. *(Aw man, I hope it has a touch screen track pad and bluray and it can fly. That would be awesome.)* No matter what would have been released today, not everyone would have been happy. At least they didn't ditch firewire which is what everyone was crying about two days ago. Even with its flaws the new MBP is sleek, powerful, and is going to give people the quality that apple has always given.

does anyone know if there is a difference is "glossiness" level between the glass-covered iMac and the plastic covered macbook pros [previous model] ???

since the new macbook pros are covered in actual glass like the iMacs.
[ I ask because i have thought that the iMacs were much more glossy than the glossy macbook pros, is this correct, or am i smoking crack and they are the same?]

the notebook displays are glass now so ive heard.

Just ordered a MBPro, the $2,000 one. Will this thing be able to run Call of Duty 4 any good? Not going to game much on it but it would be nice to try this one out...

exactly.
i know how the older plastic covered glossy screens look on the last model of macbook pros.
[and they aren't too bad, but the iMacs with glass always look bad when ever i see or try them]

that is why i am asking if others have noticed this, or if it is just the circumstances in which i have seen/tried the other product...i havent had the chance to compare side by side.
the apple store near me is always a real circus, not even worth trying to go in there

Not on high settings, but it should run decently with the correct settings (probably the middle ones).

For me at least, fps should be averaged around 30 to be playable.

I'm disappointed today. I understand how the new environmentally friendly unit has to cost more, but it's disappointing in a world where other brands of laptops have significantly cut prices to see Apple raising prices. Outside the US some of the increases are substantial. A token $100 drop in the old plastic MacBook is really insignificant and in most places outside the US translates to no drop at all.

Ditching FireWire from the MB seems to be a clear case of being penny wise and pound foolish. It's a symptom of Apple making machines that are just "good enough", a philosophy usually attributed to PC clones and a certain software company in Redmond, WA.

Not only have we lost use of our FireWire drives and camcorders, losing FireWire eliminates a truly useful and friendly part of the Mac experience: target disk mode. I still find it surprising Apple chose to remove it from the MBA and now the MB.

I'm certainly happy to see some decent integrated graphics in the machines. The 9400 isn't particularly powerful, but it's better than Intel graphics and it's reasonably energy efficient. I'm not surprised that the Pro option is merely a 9600. Apple has a long history of putting one generation old, mid-range graphics into their pro systems.

While Display Port may be a forward looking interface I don't like the proliferation or little adapters for everything. It's also a subtle way of raising prices for everyone. If you use DVI it'll cost $30, if you also use projectors it's another $30 and if you need dual link DVI it'll set you back $100 and cost you one of your USB ports.

Why Apple ever designed the Mac mini to use a different motherboard than the one in the iBook/MacBook is beyond comprehension. It could be more powerful, less expensive and provide Apple with better margins if they hadn't been so focused on making it small. Today's 24" display announcement gives me a tiny bit of hope that there'll be a new mini before Thanksgiving. I don't expect a new Mac Pro before January and don't expect any headless machine in the $1000-2000 range as long as Steve Jobs lives.

Other brands are cutting prices by using cheaper/inferior components.

Apple continues to use expensive components and manufacturing processes. As a way to differentiate itself from the others.

I will not get into the matte vs. glossy debate. Honestly, I understand the glossy complaint. I'm sure the covers to fix this will be of minimal cost.

Any aren't more people outraged that the fact that if we purchase a new MBP, we have to pay another $99 for an adapter to use our 30-inch Apple Display.

Apple couldn't include the adapter for its high-end notebook line?

Everyone else is ok with the extra 99 bucks for an adapter that should be included?? 99 bucks???

This is how I feel. I am not a photgrapher or printer, so am not too concerned about color reproduction, but with the glossy screen I had to lean forward slightly and squint.

I do not discount others who find glossy to be fine, but for me it changes my eyes from a state of relaxation to a state of effort. So anyway Apple will be happy because I sold my Alu iMac and got a Mac Pro with 3rd party screen. It didn't make me abandon Mac, just change my choice of Mac.

I don't understand why Apple still does not offer Blu-Ray drives in their laptops or Imacs? I have a MBP that is about 3 years old and was hoping to buy the new model which was released today but was disappointed when I found out they were not going to be offered with Blu-Ray drives.

I don't get it. Does anyone know what's behind the thinking of this?

The Microsoft trollls, the DELL trolls and their likes, certaintly are roaming these forums today!!!

It´s a marketing gimmick from the competition... Just ignore it/them!

I´m not saying that all is good, but the only thing that might be a let down for me is the glass screen. BUT!... It´s not a disaster! Come one people!... The new glossy screens might even have much better control over the lighting konditions then the previous ones! Who knows? Apple is aware of the problem.

Apple is innovating all the time. Some products you will like, some you won´t. If they make a product you don´t like, DON´T BUY IT!!!

I like this one!!!

YOU WHIIIIINERS!!!

Apple would have to add more and unwanted DRM to OS X.

The current slot loading Blu-ray drives that the MacBook would use are too big, too slow, consume too much energy, and too expensive.

Few people give a crap about Blu-ray.

I really don't Understand why are you so serious about it hehe

If you compare it to $899 23" Cinema Display the new 24" has Great Value cause it has LED wich is brighter and good on consumption, It has an iSight and Speakers that are the same size of an iMac that provide good output thru the bouncing.

So at the end you have a bigger, better, brighter NEW Cinema Display without a firewire port plus the iSight & audio at the same price point current line 23" . For me it fulfills the whole meaning of upgrade.

About Remote and Front Row, does any of the Displays include one, does any Display render the definition of Media Hub aka Apple TV? Answer = NO

NO F.I.R.E.W.I.R.E 4.0.0.

.....W.T.F?


How do i use my $2000 MOTU FW audio interface now?!

You have the choice of any computer other than the MacBook or Air.

I think there is a direct correlation between the glossiness of the new macbooks(pros) and Jony Ive's head.

Tell me I'm wrong! I dare you.

I'm not trying to be sarcastic when I say that anyone here should not hire webhead for serious graphic work if he actually thinks that glossy displays (with equivalent specs to matte ones) are superior in color reproduction and image quality.

great post. it amazes me that "professional" people are complaining about the suitability of the mpb's screen for color (be it print, web or video) and are using or toting similarly imperfect solutions.

some "professional" people here seemingly have no idea as to what the correct set-up should be, or at least know the limitations of their set-up.

Why do you even bother trying to explain to these A*Holes on here that matte is better?

These new offerings are a joke.

I use to perfer apples because they knew exactly what I wanted or offered what I wanted as a configuration option. Examples (back in the day) include Bluetooth, small footprint/low weight, widescreen LCD, and Firewire.

Looking at the apple store, there are almost ZERO configurable options. Furthermore, the list of features keeps shrinking and shrinking.

Has anyone here looked at the VAIOs? For something that weighs LESS and is SMALLER than an MacBook Air, they have managed to pack in a full array of ports into the TT series.

While the TT series does have a smaller LCD (11.1), Sony was able to pack in the following options that allude Apple:
VGA Port
HDMI Port
2x USB 2.0
4 Pin iLink (Firewire)
10/100/1000 Ethernet
SD Card Reader
ExpressCard32
Biometric Fingerprint Sensor
Microphone Jack

Oh did I forget IT HAS AN INTEGRATED BLU-RAY DRIVE?

Oh ya and it also has higher resolution screen.

How is it that Sony is able to fit all of this into a SMALLER package and Apple can't figure it out?

COME ON, THE NEW MODELS DON'T EVEN HAVE BLU-RAY.

If they had Blu-Ray I might feel different, but that is a deal breaker for me. Not only have I only purchased Blu-Ray movies for the past ~2 years, but we use Blu-Ray at work. 3rd parties charge up to 1000 for these drives.

Ever since Apple when "main stream" it seams like they have stopped trying. Their customer service is a joke, and now they are lax on their product line up.

I have been buying Apple products since the Apple IIc
. I was looking forward to replacing my aging MacBook. Now I have some hard choices to make.

The Blu-Ray model? $4400 and not shipping yet. The base model is $500 more than the base Air, starting at 1.2GHz CPU. The number of screen dots are actually pretty close, Air 1.024,000 pixels vs 1,049,088 pixels, a 2.5% difference.