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Third Debate Blow by Blow - Page 3

post #81 of 191
It ain't swiftboating if it's true.

The only person swiftboating Joe the Plumber is Joe the Plumber.
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post #82 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

It ain't swiftboating if it's true.

The only person swiftboating Joe the Plumber is Joe the Plumber.

Exactly.

Has a single past acquaintance of Joe the Liar stepped forward to denounce Joe the Liar's words, actions, or deeds during his youth?

I know that that hasn't happened yet.

Maybe Joe the Liar is actually Joe the Cook since it is implied by me that he ran a meth lab in his youth.
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post #83 of 191
Blame the victim.
post #84 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Blame the victim.

No one's blaiming Obama.

The blame fully belongs to the perps doing the perp talk show walk, Joe the Liar and John the Liar.
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #85 of 191
post #86 of 191
LOL. Mc Cain is expressive.
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Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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post #87 of 191
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Except this is exactly backwards. "The media" was eager to award the debate to McCain, and it's the polls (as in, voters) that gave Obama the edge.

I don't agree with that at all. The media was talking about how much of "game changer" McCain needed to deliver. They set an impossible standard, then said he didn't meet it.

Speaking of polls, I'm feeling better today. Joe the Plumber has apparently made a real impact. AP is 44-42 Obama and Gallup 49-47. The AP poll surveyed 200 more Dems than Republicans (D=873, R=650). I think the "spread the wealth" comment might undo Obama.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #88 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I don't agree with that at all. The media was talking about how much of "game changer" McCain needed to deliver. They set an impossible standard, then said he didn't meet it.

Speaking of polls, I'm feeling better today. Joe the Plumber has apparently made a real impact. AP is 44-42 Obama and Gallup 49-47. The AP poll surveyed 200 more Dems than Republicans (D=873, R=650). I think the "spread the wealth" comment might undo Obama.

I'm sure it will. Just like the contested and divisive convention did, just like "bittergate" did, just like disaffected Hillary voters did, just like Wright did, just like Ayers did....
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #89 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I don't agree with that at all. The media was talking about how much of "game changer" McCain needed to deliver. They set an impossible standard, then said he didn't meet it.

Speaking of polls, I'm feeling better today. Joe the Plumber has apparently made a real impact. AP is 44-42 Obama and Gallup 49-47. The AP poll surveyed 200 more Dems than Republicans (D=873, R=650). I think the "spread the wealth" comment might undo Obama.

Gallup is 51-45 today, and you might want to reconsider the significance of that AP poll

The national polls are on average pretty much right where they've been, with a roughly 6.5-7% Obama advantage.
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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post #90 of 191
Bittergate and Plumbergate are the same in that Obama said exactly how he feels but those feelings don't win elections.
post #91 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I don't agree with that at all. The media was talking about how much of "game changer" McCain needed to deliver. They set an impossible standard, then said he didn't meet it.

Speaking of polls, I'm feeling better today. Joe the Plumber has apparently made a real impact. AP is 44-42 Obama and Gallup 49-47. The AP poll surveyed 200 more Dems than Republicans (D=873, R=650). I think the "spread the wealth" comment might undo Obama.

post #92 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Bittergate and Plumbergate are the same in that Obama said exactly how he feels but those feelings don't win elections.

I'm not sure what "Plumbergate" is. I'm guessing Obama's controversial support of our progressive tax code?

If so, I think we can safely assume the whole "-gate" formulation is officially meaningless.

In that spirit, WHY WON'T THE MCCAIN CAMPAIGN LEVEL WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ABOUT TONGUEGATE???!!!
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #93 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I'm not sure what "Plumbergate" is. I'm guessing Obama's controversial support of our progressive tax code?

If so, I think we can safely assume the whole "-gate" formulation is officially meaningless.

In that spirit, WHY WON'T THE MCCAIN CAMPAIGN LEVEL WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ABOUT TONGUEGATE???!!!

I think they're hoping that the press will be distracted by crazy-roll-eyes-gate.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #94 of 191
You know, I take it back. If this campaign has shown us anything, it's the right's ability to seize on a series of wingnut code issues with the fervor of a drowning man clutching at every bit of flotsam that floats his way, absolutely sure that each waterlogged splinter is a fully equipped lifeboat.

Plumbergate it is. Tell your friends.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #95 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I'm not sure what "Plumbergate" is. I'm guessing Obama's controversial support of our progressive tax code?

No it's Obama's support for wealth redistribution via progressive taxes and tax rebates.
post #96 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

I think they're hoping that the press will be distracted by crazy-roll-eyes-gate.

SIGHGATE! SNORTGATE! AIRQUOTESGATE! OLDGATE! STUPIDGATE!

McCain is furious about his neighbor's rusty gate! GATEGATE! Palin seems to undermine his position! GATEGATEGATE!

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #97 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

No it's Obama's support for wealth redistribution via progressive taxes and tax rebates.

So that would be the same wealth redistribution that we've had for the last 100 years.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #98 of 191


IT IZ TEH SUK.
post #99 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post



IT IZ TEH SUK.

Shitdisturbers.
post #100 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Fuck. Democrats are so stingy over any criticism they have to swift boat Joe the Plumber.

You're funny. Last I checked it was the media that camped itself outside "Joe's" house. It was the media that dug into his past and vetted his story.

But you can wax on about how the big ol' meanies, the Democrats.
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #101 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

You're funny. Last I checked it was the media that camped itself outside "Joe's" house. It was the media that dug into his past and vetted his story.

But you can wax on about how the big ol' meanies, the Democrats.

Actually if you look into it on your own you'll notice that the unions in ohio dug into their membership roles and swift boated Joe the Plumber for Obama at lightening speed.
post #102 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Actually if you look into it on your own you'll notice that the unions in ohio dug into their membership roles and swift boated Joe the Plumber for Obama at lightening speed.

C'mon. They didn't need to assert themselves much against a clearly disillusioned, moronic, tax evading dreamer destined for a life of disappointment and failure anyway.

and...

Quote:
I would, if you believe him, I would be receiving his tax cuts, Wurzelbacher said.

Next?
post #103 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Actually if you look into it on your own you'll notice that the unions in ohio dug into their membership roles and swift boated Joe the Plumber for Obama at lightening speed.

I suppose this is pointless, but how do you figure "noting that a guy isn't in a particular union" amounts to "swiftboating"?

And now that Joe admits that he would, in fact, be receiving a tax cut from Obama, is he "swiftboating" himself?

Does "swiftboating" now mean "exposing any information about an individual, no matter how factual"?

Would you say the Alaska legislature "swiftboated" Sarah Palin? When McCain notes that Obama is from Chicago, that is "swiftboating", no?

I'm swiftboating the thread even now. I myself am a swiftboat, in fact. It's swiftboatgate. I wish this election was over.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #104 of 191
[CENTER]
Joe the Pedophile[/CENTER]
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #105 of 191
I have to say, I think that getting into Joe the Plumber's personal life and business is pretty distasteful.

He just asked Obama a question, someone happened to film it, the conservative blogs picked it up and made it viral, and then McCain jumped on the bandwagon, making Joe famous. Yeah he's obviously a conservative Republican, so what? I'm trying to imagine me throwing McCain a tough question, maybe bending some facts a bit (like Joe buying a $270,000 business) because I didn't think anyone would ever know, and then people all over the country get into my personal life. Yuck.

What gets me most about it is that I don't see how anyone who watches the actual footage of Obama's conversation with this guy can come away thinking it's going to hurt Obama. Even if you disagree with Obama, you can't watch that and think anything but that Obama took this guy's question seriously and tried to answer it honestly. The righties latched onto one off-hand comment about "spreading the wealth," which I didn't even catch when I first watched it a few days ago, because Obama otherwise explained in detail his tax proposals. It was a good moment for Obama, not a bad one.
post #106 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I suppose this is pointless, but how do you figure "noting that a guy isn't in a particular union" amounts to "swiftboating"?

And now that Joe admits that he would, in fact, be receiving a tax cut from Obama, is he "swiftboating" himself?

Does "swiftboating" now mean "exposing any information about an individual, no matter how factual"?

Would you say the Alaska legislature "swiftboated" Sarah Palin? When McCain notes that Obama is from Chicago, that is "swiftboating", no?

I'm swiftboating the thread even now. I myself am a swiftboat, in fact. It's swiftboatgate. I wish this election was over.

The point being, which I didn't start someone else did, that Obama's union pals started the swift boating of Joe, not the media.

Now the liberal bloggers are painting Joe as a racist. Let's hold our breath until Obama calls off the attack on Joe.
post #107 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Actually if you look into it on your own you'll notice that the unions in ohio dug into their membership roles and swift boated Joe the Plumber for Obama at lightening speed.

I looked into it, and it didn't happen in any way, shape, or form as per your assertion above.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #108 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

No matter the questioner Obama committed the perfect gaffe. That being when a politician says something they shouldn't but is also exactly their true feelings. The purpose of the tax increase on people making $250K is to take their money and give it to people that make a lot less. "Share the wealth."

So I guess they won't want the socialist funded police to attend a break in by the "people that make a lot less" when they unilaterally decide to "Share the wealth."
post #109 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

The point being, which I didn't start someone else did, that Obama's union pals started the swift boating of Joe, not the media.

Now the liberal bloggers are painting Joe as a racist. Let's hold our breath until Obama calls off the attack on Joe.

They are not Obama's union pals and they did not swiftboat Joe the Liar.

Liberal bloggers are not painting Joe the Liar as a racist.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #110 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Now the liberal bloggers are painting Joe as a racist.

Where?

Quote:
Let's hold our breath until Obama calls off the attack on Joe.

I thought it was McCain that held up Joe as a target, to throw the dogs off McCain's scent.
post #111 of 191
post #112 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

The point being, which I didn't start someone else did, that Obama's union pals started the swift boating of Joe, not the media.

Now the liberal bloggers are painting Joe as a racist. Let's hold our breath until Obama calls off the attack on Joe.

Again, in what sense did the union "swiftboat" the guy? My understanding is that they took note that he isn't in a union.

If you want to assign blame for the scrutiny coming his way (and I agree with Northgate that it's pointless and stupid to besiege the guy) then ask the McCain campaign why they decided to make him everyman in a nationally televised debate. They knew full well that singling someone out that way would lead to a lot of media scrutiny, it is, unfortunately, how things are done.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #113 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

I have to say, I think that getting into Joe the Plumber's personal life and business is pretty distasteful ... because I didn't think anyone would ever know, and then people all over the country get into my personal life. Yuck.

Sam/Joe was more than happy to talk about his personal life nationally before the debate. Here he is on fox early in the week talking about himself and his life in detail, even though a lot of what he's saying is, we now know, exaggerated.

Sam/Joe made a national issue out of his own personal life. He is the one who repeatedly used his (exaggerated) personal details to push an agenda in the national press.
Quote:
What gets me most about it is that I don't see how anyone who watches the actual footage of Obama's conversation with this guy can come away thinking it's going to hurt Obama. Even if you disagree with Obama, you can't watch that and think anything but that Obama took this guy's question seriously and tried to answer it honestly. The righties latched onto one off-hand comment about "spreading the wealth," which I didn't even catch when I first watched it a few days ago, because Obama otherwise explained in detail his tax proposals. It was a good moment for Obama, not a bad one.

Indeed. The title in the reddit submission before the debate: "Plumber asks Obama spontaneous question. Obama spends four minutes giving him a detailed, cogent, respectful answer. Good stuff."

The point was that Obama can actually talk about the issues in detail and respectfully even to people who disagree with him, and that it's refreshing to see a nice, adult debate between a politician and a citizen.

Of course, it turns out that Sam/Joe was just trolling, and he immediately turns around and starts doing sensationalist interviews making claims about himself that aren't entirely true, and the McCain campaign used him as a poster boy for their agenda. And, frankly, the combination of it happening so quickly and Sam/Joe being so completely on message makes it absolutely reek of being manufactured.

The whole incident illustrates exactly how far the republican party has devolved into a hodgepodge of fanatical infants.
post #114 of 191
"Hodgepodge of fanatical infants" would be an excellent band name. HOFI to their fans.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #115 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

The point being, which I didn't start someone else did, that Obama's union pals started the swift boating of Joe, not the media.

Now the liberal bloggers are painting Joe as a racist. Let's hold our breath until Obama calls off the attack on Joe.

You know what I love? I love how Obama's "pals" and what they do means Obama is directly responsible. Which is kinda hypocritical, is it not?

I mean, you guys get red faced when McCain is held to account for the actions of his own precinct captains and party heads. You go on and on and protest that McCain can't be held to account for a the actions of others.

But boy oh boy you don't hesitate for single second to apply Obama's hand to EVERYTHING.

So I tell you what. Fine. If you want Obama to be responsible for everything then you'll have to agree that McCain is to? Agreed?
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post #116 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

No it's Obama's support for wealth redistribution via progressive taxes and tax rebates.

Progressive taxes are not wealth redistribution.
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post #117 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Progressive taxes are not wealth redistribution.

What? Is this some new form of 1984 style doublespeak? Why are they not wealth distribution?
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post #118 of 191
The money taken via income taxes are not given to poor people.

It is not wealth redistribution.
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post #119 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

What? Is this some new form of 1984 style doublespeak? Why are they not wealth distribution?

Why aren't even flat tax rates, which are a percentage of income, wealth redistribution? When you use a percentage, rich people are paying more than others. The only way it wouldn't be wealth redistribution, using your apparent definition, is if you charged everyone the same amount - say, everyone has to pay $10,000/year.
post #120 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

The money taken via income taxes are not given to poor people.

It is not wealth redistribution.

No, it is spent on services given to everyone, part of which is money given directly to poor people (via welfare, tax credits, etc). If I pay double taxes, and my neighbor pays nothing, then he is getting his road maintenance at my expense - my wealth is being redistributed to him, and if he gets a tax credit, then the wealth distribution is even more direct.

I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but to say that progressive taxation is not wealth redistribution is weird. Are you just trying to avoid a negative connotation or something? What is your motivation for your argument?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

Why aren't even flat tax rates, which are a percentage of income, wealth redistribution? When you use a percentage, rich people are paying more than others. The only way it wouldn't be wealth redistribution, using your apparent definition, is if you charged everyone the same amount - say, everyone has to pay $10,000/year.

A flat tax is also wealth redistribution. Anything other than direct "pay for services used" is.
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