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Jobs responds to outrage over MacBook's missing FireWire - Page 31

post #1201 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross View Post

what's telling about quoting mac on the front page... we all know mac is good, in many cases better than PC.

What it tells you is that the Mac represents a significant FW base.

Quote:
i concur on the placement of this model in the scheme of things - it's certainly not consumer market camera... but then of course Sony in all their wisdom would not put a dying interface on their expensive flagship model. That would makes no sense at all.

Sony persisted with beta for a long time and beta persisted as a pro format for a long time. No one has said that the pro market would abandon FW as quickly or as much as the consumer market...especially any tape based unit.

If you look at the Sony HDD and flash models they no longer have iLink (Firewire) but USB2.

That's their flagship "prosumer" model actually. Not quite pro level. Yes, the pro models still have iLink and yes, they are still tape based.

Quote:
if you follow those links you'll find some stats:

how many macs does apple sell per year? at around 2.6 million per quarter that's only 10million per year (if we're being generous since the 2.6 is based on Apple's best quarter to date) - which is less than 25% of the firewire equipped PCs sold annually

Well, if Mel's number is correct up to 16% of the laptop sales just went poof for FW. But hey, lets just call it 10% of firewire notebook shipments...3.3M (about a third of the 10M total mac shipments). So instead of 33M laptops going out with FW a year it's now 29.7M.

So 67M total devices dropped to 63.7M. If the 0.2% expected growth held true, FW just suffered a significant loss (5%) because now we're not talking miniscule growth but real total unit decline in FY2009 and not in FY2011.

Probably the biggest hit it has taken since Apple stopped shipping iPods with FW.

Quote:
i think someone might be overestimating the impact of removing FW from one single model of Apple notebook...

oh sorry, this must be marketing data

I find the 14M firewire camcorders shipped an interesting number. I wonder what the total market size is. I'm not willing to pay $4500 for a market report to find out though.

As far as overestimating...FW just took a 5% hit on total units shipped by losing one product.
post #1202 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross View Post

Vinea if you could please combine this line on Apple MB being about WoW
to your best line so far (which is "i only need USB2") ??

it doesn't get much better than this...

brilliant

Yes, for the MB market: gamers > audio pros

Amazing isn't it? That there are more college kids than audio pros? Who would have thought that?
post #1203 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross View Post

if you follow those links you'll find some stats:

There are millions of devices shipped each year with FireWire:

• 11 million Desktop PCs (which is roughly 10% of total PC market) are shipped annually with FireWire.
• 36 million Laptop PCs shipped annually have FireWire
• 6 million external storage devices have a FireWire interface
• 14 million Digital Camcorders have FireWire

The stats for the number of USB devices in use would absolutely dwarf these FW stats.
post #1204 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Yes, for the MB market: gamers > audio pros

Amazing isn't it? That there are more college kids than audio pros? Who would have thought that?


As for college kids, this is just one of numerous articles that say the same thing.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1349.../highered.html
post #1205 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The stats for the number of USB devices in use would absolutely dwarf these FW stats.

Those stats also tell me that most PCs shipped with Firewire have never had a FW device plugged into them.
post #1206 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The stats for the number of USB devices in use would absolutely dwarf these FW stats.

And the stats for the number of PCs absolutely dwarfs Mac stats. It's a fact but I wouldn't read too much into it.
post #1207 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avon B7 View Post

And the stats for the number of PCs absolutely dwarfs Mac stats. It's a fact but I wouldn't read too much into it.

I'm not sure of the point you are attempting to make. What does the number of Mac vs PC have to do with the number of FW vs USB devices?
post #1208 of 1657
The fact (and nobody can deny it is a fact) doesn't mean much at all.

We know that USB operates at both the very low data rate and high data rate. Firewire doesn't, and never has operated at the low end. It's perfectly obvious the number of USB devices dwarfs the number of firewire devices. Firewire mice and keyboards, USB BlueTooth dongles etc have never existed as firewire products.

Remarkably firewire has done very well on the Mac (even without taking into account the PC world). Apple has put more and more ports on the market over the years and more and more mainstream disk manufacturers are not only catering to this market but some of them are even pre-formatting their disks for mac.

The new 'policy' by Apple to exclude FW on its machines (I think the MacBook is just the start) throws a spanner into the works in this growing area.

My guess is that if there were no market for firewire drives on the mac then Iomega, Western Digital, Seagate and Fujitsu etc wouldn't be producing firewire drives (and much less targetting them at mac users). Note that I didn't include companies like LaCie in that list who have a tradition of offering firewire support.

Yes, those same drives offer USB2.0 (which, btw, also gives USB a leg up on stats) but my guess is that most mac users prefer the firewire port over the USB2.0 port on those disks.
post #1209 of 1657
I think a lot of the blame is placed on Apple for this move but I actually reckon Intel has a part in this. They wrote the spec for USB3. This is one thing that's becoming increasingly obvious the more that computer hardware is progressing.

Take all the components that go into a computer and think of what parts we can do without. The only companies we really can't make a computer without are the CPU manufacturers, mainly Intel and AMD, and Intel have a large majority. We need the parts from the other manufacturers but they are independently expendable.

Other companies like Nvidia were recently angered by the fact that Intel were in control of the USB3 spec because they couldn't add support without it and they were claiming Intel were doing it deliberately to get their chipsets done first.

Now consider where else Intel are going with Larrabee and SSD. Their SSD drives are the fastest you can get now and their intention for Larrabee will be to have the fastest graphics chips.

If they have the fastest storage, they control the USB3 spec, they have the best graphics and they control the CPU, very soon we may have one company who calls all the shots and it's not Apple.

We all know how hard Apple pushed firewire. The fact that it is so prolific today, more so in specialized domains shows that they did their part to push it forward.

Perhaps it was Intel who pushed for a firewire drop and a move to their own USB3 leading to a jump to Nvidia chipsets. If Intel dropped support from their future chipsets, Apple wouldn't be worse off switching to Nvidia but would criticize Intel for doing so and also gain a lot in terms of integrated graphics performance.

This doesn't prevent Apple keeping firewire but clearly they see where the industry is going and sometimes they just have to go along with the flow too. Apple were backing UDI at one point not displayport and now displayport is on Apple devices. They clearly don't like Blu-Ray right now but the industry has decided that it's the format we're going with so Apple will eventually just have to suck it up.

Even if these decisions are made without Apple's approval, it's very hard for them to say things like 'we don't like this but we're going with it' because that removes the element of their control. They are not in control of everything but the illusion that they are gives them the air of being industry leaders and not followers and they need to maintain this.

When people question why Apple do something, Steve has little choice but to justify it. No apologies, no excuses, no weaknesses. It's the same reason they get rid of complaints on the Apple forums without public acknowledgments of issues. Mindshare is a very important thing that keeps Apple alive and many other brands.
post #1210 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avon B7 View Post

The fact (and nobody can deny it is a fact) doesn't mean much at all.

What fact is this? You didn't quote any previous message. BTW, facts aren't necessarily correct, to be a fact something has to be considered indisputable, but you only need a group of people with a like mind to find something indisputable. There is a long history of things we thought were facts which turned out to be false. That is a fact!

Quote:
We know that USB operates at both the very low data rate and high data rate. Firewire doesn't, and never has operated at the low end. It's perfectly obvious the number of USB devices dwarfs the number of firewire devices. Firewire mice and keyboards, USB BlueTooth dongles etc have never existed as firewire products.

This low and high data rate is odd without quantification. FW400 is the low end of FW and bests USB's current high high for sustained speeds. I don't get the reason for this paragraph as promotes USB as a viable, low cost solution.

Quote:
The new 'policy' by Apple to exclude FW on its machines (I think the MacBook is just the start) throws a spanner into the works in this growing area.

This really isn't a new policy. Apple has been removing FW support from it's devices slowly over several years. They have also offered more USB ports than FW ports on almost all their machines.

I only find model using MacTracker that they had 2xFW400 and 2xUSB1.0. That was their very first PowerBook Pismo released in February 2000. That was the very last G3 PB. When they released the G4 Powerbook less than a year later they had brought the number of FW ports down to one while maintaining two USB1.0 ports.

It's never been more popular than FireWire on Macs or otherwise or they would have included more support for it.

Quote:
My guess is that if there were no market for firewire drives on the mac then Iomega, Western Digital, Seagate and Fujitsu etc wouldn't be producing firewire drives (and much less targetting them at mac users). Note that I didn't include companies like LaCie in that list who have a tradition of offering firewire support.

It's not about not having 'a' market, but having a large enough market to be worth maintaining. FW400 on the MB is an obvious dead-end for the future of Apple.

Quote:
Yes, those same drives offer USB2.0 (which, btw, also gives USB a leg up on stats) but my guess is that most mac users prefer the firewire port over the USB2.0 port on those disks.

I don't prefer FW on those drives after having Time Machine backup issues and iMac startup issues when using FW on those machines, yet USB2.0 works fine. Doesn't the fact that you can buy plenty of inexpensive external HDDs with only USB2.0 on them, but have to spend considerably more for FW access, which also comes with USB2.0, tell you something about FW vs. USB in the consumer market?
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post #1211 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What fact is this? You didn't quote any previous message.

I thought it better not to quote as I was responding to the post immediately before mine. I couldn't see the point of having the same line quoted 4cm from the original message.


Quote:
I don't prefer FW on those drives after having Time Machine backup issues and iMac startup issues when using FW on those machines, yet USB2.0 works fine. Doesn't the fact that you can buy plenty of inexpensive external HDDs with only USB2.0 on them, but have to spend considerably more for FW access, which also comes with USB2.0, tell you something about FW vs. USB in the consumer market?

I've never had to spend considerably more for such a drive. A bit more would be more precise (around 30 euros last time I checked this week and I think that drive had FW800). USB is cheaper but slower (much slower if you are using FW800) but I prefer to have options open to me. I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for a quad interface drive but they seem to be a little expensive right now.
post #1212 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avon B7 View Post

The fact (and nobody can deny it is a fact) doesn't mean much at all.


My guess is that if there were no market for firewire drives on the mac then Iomega, Western Digital, Seagate and Fujitsu etc wouldn't be producing firewire drives (and much less targetting them at mac users). Note that I didn't include companies like LaCie in that list who have a tradition of offering firewire support.

One simply only has to look at the fact that their are many peripherals that FW has never been used for. Currently most all of the devices that made primary use of FW are moving to USB.

These hard drives you mention offer multiple ports: USB, FW, and eSATA. Their are no hard drives that are FW only. Their is a growing market for hard drives that are USB only and are cheaper for the same amount of storage.
post #1213 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

These hard drives you mention offer multiple ports: USB, FW, and eSATA. Their are no hard drives that are FW only. Their is a growing market for hard drives that are USB only and are cheaper for the same amount of storage.

Here is one easy to read example that shows that it's either just USB or it's a combo of USB/FW/eSATA.
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/index.asp?cat=8
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post #1214 of 1657
Well, we have a MBP at home. If I bought this (just released) drive. Which port do you think I would use? I think I'd prefer that drive over a USB only one even if it cost a bit more.
post #1215 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avon B7 View Post

Well, we have a MBP at home. If I bought this (just released) drive. Which port do you think I would use? I think I'd prefer that drive over a USB only one even if it cost a bit more.

That is pretty slick looking.
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post #1216 of 1657
@ Avon B7,

Here is a 1.5TB external drive for $185 with only USB2.0 and eSATA. I haven't seen that before, but I wonder if this will be a greater trend in external drives, especially when USB3.0 comes out and if eSATA gains some traction.
http://www.goharddrive.com/ProductDe...11&Click=46325
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post #1217 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The stats for the number of USB devices in use would absolutely dwarf these FW stats.

what would you do with USB stats anyway - surmise on the growth of the mouse and keyboard market?
the issue isn't the competition of FW with USB and anyone who tries to put the two in competition is clearly missing the point.

we obviously need USB2+ on our macs.... but the point is why apple removed the FW and didn't replace it with anything.
post #1218 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross View Post

we obviously need USB2+ on our macs.... but the point is why apple removed the FW and didn't replace it with anything.

UGH!
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post #1219 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

As for college kids, this is just one of numerous articles that say the same thing.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1349.../highered.html

yes Mel, please read the comments below the article you post
and then provide some proof that students who want macs actually buy them
especially after they find out the price has increased significantly since last year...
post #1220 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross View Post

especially after they find out the price has increased significantly since last year...

In what reality does a $1099 MB with a Combo Drive become a significant price increase when it dropped to $999 and now includes a Super Drive?
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post #1221 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

UGH!

if the UGH is for USB2 then i totally agree \
but then until the end of 2009 what am i going to plug my logitech mouse into ??

on a side note, on the new macbook how does anyone add a USB mouse
+ a USB drive which requires two ports for power (such as the iomegas)?

does one have to carry a usb hub permanently?
post #1222 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

In what reality does a $1099 MB with a Combo Drive become a significant price increase when it dropped to $999 and now includes a Super Drive?

good call - and they get FW !
lucky apple didn't remove the old models

....or they could have just dropped the price and not updated \
post #1223 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross View Post

if the UGH is for USB2 then i totally agree \
but then until the end of 2009 what am i going to plug my logitech mouse into ??

on a side note, on the new macbook how does anyone add a USB mouse
+ a USB drive which requires two ports for power (such as the iomegas)?

does one have to carry a usb hub permanently?

What if you have 3 or 4 or 5 USB accessories to plug in? I don't see many people using a more than 2 USB ports or using external mice on a notebook. Of course, that is anecdotal so the reality of the situation could be very different, but I figure Apple has done their homework on this to make their machine usable for their primary demographics.

As for the Omega, I have seen plenty of external 2.5" drives that have 2 USB ports and none of them have needed more than one USB plug for power on a modern Mac. Perhaps that 2nd port is for underpowered USB ports on lesser PCs or perhaps one should get an external 2.5" HDD that requires more than 500mA to run.


Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross View Post

good call - and they get FW !
lucky apple didn't remove the old models

....or they could have just dropped the price and not updated \

It is a good call if you want FW and a cheap 13" Mac notebook. But I think you are being sarcastic. To quote a previous post from Melgross to you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

But, by complaining about the MB, you show that you DON'T need more POWERFUL technology, you just want something newer, and cooler.

I expect the current $999 MB will remain for 2 update cycles before being retired to the refurbished section. By then I would think Apple will have refined the milling operation enough to bring back the $1099 MB. Or they could just drop it entirely. The previous generation of MBs only had 2 CPU options, but had 3 models, because one was black. I think once the newness of the MB case design wears off and it has run the gamut, they should consider iPod Nano colours. Or perhaps they could do a PRODUCT (RED) option with maxed out HDD and RAM for a higher price, but I doubt it.
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post #1224 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What if you have 3 or 4 or 5 USB accessories to plug in? I don't see many people using a more than 2 USB ports or using external mice on a notebook. Of course, that is anecdotal so the reality of the situation could be very different, but I figure Apple has done their homework on this to make their machine usable for their primary demographics.

As for the Omega, I have seen plenty of external 2.5" drives that have 2 USB ports and none of them have needed more than one USB plug for power on a modern Mac. Perhaps that 2nd port is for underpowered USB ports on lesser PCs or perhaps one should get an external 2.5" HDD that requires more than 500mA to run.



It is a good call if you want FW and a cheap 13" Mac notebook. But I think you are being sarcastic. To quote a previous post from Melgross to you...

not at all - that was actually a question from a friend with a 17" macbook pro
who often uses all 3 ports for his external iOmega 2.5" drive plus mouse... if he didn't have the 3 ports he'd use his FW port on the drive.

anyway regarding my own needs i already responded to Mel a number of times (did you see them?) saying that i only wanted the standard MB problems fixed and due to my home MP have no need for a more powerful machine - just the same with the heat problems and flickering screen fixed (which weren't fixed in the latest plastic books). Given that I bought mine in 2006 a CPU upgrade shouldn't be hard for Apple to throw in too...
post #1225 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross View Post

who often uses all 3 ports for his external iOmega 2.5" drive plus mouse... if he didn't have the 3 ports he'd use his FW port on the drive..

My biggest issue with the new MB design isn't the lack of FW, but the loss of the 3rd I/O port. I was using my FW400 and both USB ports, even though the FW400 was such a PITA for TM backups. I am actually considering dropping $20 on a USB squid hub, which is easy to pack, so I do understand that loss. But I am certain I am more of a power user than the average MB customer so I don't begrudge Apple.
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post #1226 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

Those stats also tell me that most PCs shipped with Firewire have never had a FW device plugged into them.

Very good point:

47M computers shipped with FW but only 20M devices that use FW shipped.
post #1227 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Very good point:

47M computers shipped with FW but only 20M devices that use FW shipped.

Any info on how USB accessories shipped?
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post #1228 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

These hard drives you mention offer multiple ports: USB, FW, and eSATA. Their are no hard drives that are FW only. Their is a growing market for hard drives that are USB only and are cheaper for the same amount of storage.

My little LaCie is FW only. Oddly it has a USB dongle thingy for power...something I never understood. I guess it's for 4 pin FW or something.
post #1229 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Any info on how USB accessories shipped?

I can't even figure out how many camcorders shipped. Some things are easy to find. Others require more google-fu than I possess. I am only a nidan in google-fu.
post #1230 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avon B7 View Post

Well, we have a MBP at home. If I bought this (just released) drive. Which port do you think I would use? I think I'd prefer that drive over a USB only one even if it cost a bit more.

PC USB version (250 GB) $109

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...648&CatId=2420

PC USB version (320 GB in red) $139

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...653&CatId=2420

PC USB version (500 GB) $179

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...654&CatId=2424

Mac FW version (250 GB) $149

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?EdpNo=4183650

Mmmm...$40 isn't much but it IS $10 more for a smaller drive.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1357...?lsrc=rss_main

"We tested the drive using FireWire 800, USB 2.0, and FireWire 400 on a MacPro. In our Copy 1GB test, the drive took 41 seconds on average with the FireWire 800 connection, 51 seconds for the FireWire 400 and 45 seconds with the USB 2.0. Compared with other drives we've tested, the times are only slightly slower than desktop drives but marginally faster than competing portable drives.

The duplicate test results were even more impressive. It only took 50 seconds to duplicate a 1GB file with the FireWire 800; 1 minute, 16 sixteen seconds with the FireWire 400; and 1 minute, 31 seconds with the USB 2.0 connection. These times, along with the low memory Photoshop test results (FireWire 800, 1 minute, 38 seconds; FireWire 400, 1 minute and 45 seconds; and USB 2.0, 1 minute, 48 seconds) are not only faster than most portable drives we've seen, but comparable to many larger desktop drives."

Give me the 70GB extra space for $10 less or double the space for $30 more. The FW400 connection is not much faster (6 sec slower on one test, 15 sec faster on the second and 3 seconds faster on the third) considering I do a lot more copies than duplicates.

Heck, even for FW800 the speed difference isn't all that. 41 seconds FW800 vs 45 seconds USB2 on a 1 GB copy?

Real world use:

"AutoGK 2.45

Here we have some real world testing. We ran AutoGK 2.45 to transcode a 2-1/2 hour DVD into an avi with 100% quality.

I was happy with the times I saw, when using the FreeAgent Go as the target drive the Asus G2S X1 was able to transcode a 2-1/2 hour movie from DVD to AVI in 1 hour, 22 minutes and 35 Seconds, this is just over 2 minutes slower than using the local drive and more than acceptable on the hardware in use."

"Virtual Machines:
To add some fun items in I ran two VMs that I commonly run off of the FreeAgent GO. One is a Vista Ultimate x86 VM and the other is a Mandriva Linux VM.
Even with these running at the same time there was no performance impact on file transfer, encryption/decryption, Transcoding, or even raw throughput, very impressive indeed.
Below are screen shots of raw through put as measured by Sandra 2009 and Everest with 2 VMs running."

http://www.planetx64.com/index.php?o...1&limitstart=4

2 minutes slower vs the internal drive I can live with. That the FW400 might only be 1 minute and 30 seconds slower I don't really care given I have an extra 70GBs to use.

Running VMs is the other thing I do with external drives other than backup or as a place to stick my large video files.
post #1231 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

I can't even figure out how many camcorders shipped. Some things are easy to find. Others require more google-fu than I possess. I am only a nidan in google-fu.

Over 2B USB enabled devices shipped in 2006

Check out the graphs under "Ubiquitous USB"
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post #1232 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avon B7 View Post

And the stats for the number of PCs absolutely dwarfs Mac stats. It's a fact but I wouldn't read too much into it.

I would, because it matters greatly.

Like it or not, 95% of the people around the world do not use a Mac, and most third party equipment is therefore sold to them.

As many fewer FW ports are sold on those vast numbers, the fort is mostly held by Apple, less so by Sony, and even less so by Hp.

When they see Apple discontinue FW on their most popular model, they will wonder more than ever if it pays to continue putting them on the few of their own models that do have them. They then could save some money, which for most PC manufacturers is the main point of their existence.

As they also look around, and see that the most popular use for FW is disappearing (inexpensive camcorders), that will enhance their feeling that FW is a waste for them.

As that happens, those camcorder manufacturers will speed up what they have already been doing, which is to move off tape, and onto flash, or HDD recording, which has no need for FW.

A downward spiral. It's already happening. The trend will accelerate.

The fact that some equipment will continue to have FW in some form doesn't really matter. If this equipment is high end, as is sometimes being pointed out, it simply justifies what I, and others are saying, which is, that the MB won't need FW, but for a while, at least, the pro machines will.

While I think Apple rushed a bit, by the end of next year, FW will have little reason for existing on cheap computers, no matter who makes them.
post #1233 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross View Post

yes Mel, please read the comments below the article you post
and then provide some proof that students who want macs actually buy them
especially after they find out the price has increased significantly since last year...

Yes, I did read the article, and it doesn't do anything for you, just for my point.

Ther have been MANY articles that show that college students ar moving to Macs in huge numbers. You don't want to think that, then you are living in a world of your own.

The number of audio professionals who buy Macbooks is a very small percentage of the Macbooks sales.

Since you apparently don't believe that, why don't YOU provide a link or three that show otherwise?

Apple sells thousands of Macbooks a year to audio pros, and likely thousands more to video pros as well.

But they sells millions to other people.
post #1234 of 1657

I bow to you. Now find number of total camcorders shipped. That was the stumper.
post #1235 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The fact that some equipment will continue to have FW in some form doesn't really matter. If this equipment is high end, as is sometimes being pointed out, it simply justifies what I, and others are saying, which is, that the MB won't need FW, but for a while, at least, the pro machines will.

While I think Apple rushed a bit, by the end of next year, FW will have little reason for existing on cheap computers, no matter who makes them.

last point is good - given that SJ already stated that Apple wasn't interested in producing a cheap computer...

what do you define as a cheap computer? and do you really believe that the $1300 MB is cheap for your average consumer?

Quote:
Vinea

read the comments and results table in the macworld article carefully - you've got your 45 and 51 seconds for USB vs FW backwards.
post #1236 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Yes, I did read the article, and it doesn't do anything for you, just for my point.

Ther have been MANY articles that show that college students ar moving to Macs in huge numbers. You don't want to think that, then you are living in a world of your own.

The number of audio professionals who buy Macbooks is a very small percentage of the Macbooks sales.

Since you apparently don't believe that, why don't YOU provide a link or three that show otherwise?

Apple sells thousands of Macbooks a year to audio pros, and likely thousands more to video pros as well.

But they sells millions to other people.

why is it that when i ask you where you get your ideas
you respond by making assumptions / accusations about what i think
did i ever indicate that i thought audio professionals outnumbered anyone ?

a simple "i'm surmising" or "i don't know" would have sufficed \
post #1237 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Yes, I did read the article, and it doesn't do anything for you, just for my point.

Ther have been MANY articles that show that college students ar moving to Macs in huge numbers. You don't want to think that, then you are living in a world of your own.

The number of audio professionals who buy Macbooks is a very small percentage of the Macbooks sales.

Since you apparently don't believe that, why don't YOU provide a link or three that show otherwise?

Apple sells thousands of Macbooks a year to audio pros, and likely thousands more to video pros as well.

But they sells millions to other people.

He evidently did not read the article, just skimmed it looking for some loophole. If he HAD read it then he would have read this line and not asked that question:

"The Mac's popularity may not be that much of a surprise given Apple's reputation for thriving in the education market. In its most recent quarter, Apples education division saw its best quarter ever for K-12 sales as well as well as the best June quarter for higher education Mac sales."

Obviously, Apple is incapable of converting interest into sales.
post #1238 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross View Post

read the comments and results table in the macworld article carefully - you've got your 45 and 51 seconds for USB vs FW backwards.

No, MacWorld has confused their text and table. Assuming 51 secs for USB2 vs 45 secs for FW400 still isn't much delta for 70GB extra space for $10 less money or double the space for $30 more.

Something you avoided discussing eh?
post #1239 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Obviously, Apple is incapable of converting interest into sales.

you obviously skimmed my response and are just looking for a dig...

i was pointing out that by removing features and increasing the cost by nearly 20%
apple will make it more difficult for themselves to convert interest to sales

do you disagree ?
post #1240 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

No, MacWorld has confused their text and table. Assuming 51 secs for USB2 vs 45 secs for FW400 still isn't much delta for 70GB extra space for $10 less money or double the space for $30 more.

Something you avoided discussing eh?

whatever, you were obviously just skimming

i've already said that if pure data transfer is your game, USB2 is fine
and saving a few seconds is not such a big deal
i don't really hear anyone arguing about that except you

oh and did you care to look what machine the tests were performed on??
a Mac Pro Quad 2.66... yeah that's like so applicable to a little MB
everyone on this thread knows that if you increase the power of the CPU the performance of USB increases
care to tell us when the next quad core MB is to be released ?
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