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Jobs responds to outrage over MacBook's missing FireWire - Page 39

post #1521 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Apple has a teeny tiny market in comparison to Windows. But the Mac market is healthy enough to support itself. Likewise the prosumer market obviously.

Is it significant? Mostly from the perspective that Apple has a lot of mindshare as well.

mindshare is one thing apple is losing - and fast.
lucky they still have monopoly on their OS to keep people stuck to their hardware.

Quote:
Sure. For it's pro model. And it does. Frankly the MB is still a great laptop for that market. DSLR folks shouldn't have much issue with a MB beyond the same issues that any TN panel has with colors.

yaaaaah - read up what i said earlier
(no DSLR user worries about firewire - i'm using the stats to show a trend)
Quote:
Yah right. The average consumer buys $1900 camcorders. Whatever.

your article - quote it, own it.

Quote:
The cameras are here today and make up 7/10ths of the top ten on the list you posted.
But hey, you choose to ignore that eh?

not ignoring it at all - as i pointed out those people buying cheaper cameras will probably be buying cheaper notebooks too...
a region apple is not so competitive in.

the "years to wait" was for your USB2 to finish transferring 16GB of data :/

Quote:
Yah, eSATA.

no you wouldn't because if you were in the field (or on a plane or in an airport or in a crowded cafe)
because there wouldn't be power - so eSata and its associated wall wart wouldn't work
(not to mention that FW800 is as fast as the current HDD write speeds... but you choose what you like \)
post #1522 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross View Post

mindshare is one thing apple is losing - and fast.
lucky they still have monopoly on their OS to keep people stuck to their hardware.

Apple is losing mindshare.

Quote:
not ignoring it at all - as i pointed out those people buying cheaper cameras will probably be buying cheaper notebooks too...
a region apple is not so competitive in.

Those cameras are not cheaper. The HF10 is about the same price as the HV30.
post #1523 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross View Post

mindshare is one thing apple is losing - and fast.
lucky they still have monopoly on their OS to keep people stuck to their hardware.

What evidence is their that Apple is loosing mindshare. Outside of you placing a sequence of words together that say so.
post #1524 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

What evidence is their that Apple is loosing mindshare. Outside of you placing a sequence of words together that say so.

talk about stringing words together... \
check all the mac forums - the mindshare repercussions of this latest release
won't be (able to be) measured for a while
and it's not just firewire, it's pricing, screens, DRM, mobile me, hardware issues, lacklustre product releases etc etc

do you honestly think apple is gaining mindshare in the segment?
either amongst their staunchest fans or elsewhere?

(but yes no question of them gaining within the smartphone segment)
post #1525 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross View Post

do you honestly think apple is gaining mindshare in the segment?
either amongst their staunchest fans or elsewhere?

If they are talking about Apple it means they are thinking about Apple. Mindhsare is lost when no one is talking or thinking about you anymore.

People complaining on the internet doesn't accurately define what the larger market feels. The better Apple does the more nameless faceless people on the lists and boards complain.
post #1526 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

If they are talking about Apple it means they are thinking about Apple. Mindhsare is lost when no one is talking or thinking about you anymore.

People complaining on the internet doesn't accurately define what the larger market feels. The better Apple does the more nameless faceless people on the lists and boards complain.

I hate to be a nit-picker but let's be reasonable here. The point was that Apple was losing mindshare. There's a difference between losing (having less and less) and what you're comparing to (having none).

How is Apple doing 'better' exactly (apart from sales and profits)? I ask because few are complaining about those aspects (sales/profits).
post #1527 of 1657
Again what evidence is there that Apple is loosing mind share at all? Every event that happens with Apple is reported across the entire web. Place any tag into a Google search with Apple and you get 10 pages of reports about the most mundane detail.

Sales/profits are the barometer of how we judge the wellness of a company. People on the internet don't reflect the larger consumer market. If anything I would say these internet lists are not at all in step with the larger consumer market. This is the only place I see where anyone really cares about firewire.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Avon B7 View Post

I hate to be a nit-picker but let's be reasonable here. The point was that Apple was losing mindshare. There's a difference between losing (having less and less) and what you're comparing to (having none).

How is Apple doing 'better' exactly (apart from sales and profits)? I ask because few are complaining about those aspects (sales/profits).
post #1528 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gon View Post

I get the feeling that when you say "professional", what you mean is "media professional". All of your examples are from that world, anyway.

There are plenty of programmers and managers who want solid, quality laptops but also want them small, low weight and long on battery life.
Raw CPU power, GPU power, color correctness are not huge concerns for this group.

I don't count myself as a pro, but I share those priorities. The 12":s were the last Apple hardware that was designed to fit them.
Incidentally, this year I also bought my first Windows desktop in ~8 years. OS X' value is not infinite, and the gaps Apple has built into its hardware lineup are not small.

My problem is not the weight so much as the size. I travel via airplane several times a year and I tend to travel light. I have one piece of luggage-a carry on bag-which I take with me. It has a detachable backpack that I put under the seat in front of me. It's that backpack that usually contains my laptop. The 12" Powerbook/iBook fit into it quite nicely and the 13" MacBook just barely fits into it. Which means the 15" MacBook Pro is out of the question for me. I just can't take it with me and I don't see any reason why I should have to buy 2 different sized laptops to cover all situations.

I've been meaning to get back to this thread for a few weeks but I've been busy. I had an experience earlier this month where I had to migrate the contents of a 12" iBook to one of the new MacBooks. I was looking at transferring about 28-29 GB worth of data from one computer to another via a 802.11g network connection. It was awful! I was at it over 3 hours and I still didn't get everything. I'm currently shopping around for a USB drive to carry around with me in those situations but when I think about how much faster the transfer would have been via FireWire I become annoyed with what Apple did buy leaving FireWire off the new computer. I bet the new MacBook owners would have been willing to pay the extra $$ to Apple for the FireWire port if it meant they would have had to have paid me less money to do the transfer. (I had to boot the old computer into Target Disk Mode, plug it into mine since the Airport on the old computer was broken.)(Oh, and the ethernet was broken as well.)
post #1529 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by night9hawk View Post

I've been meaning to get back to this thread for a few weeks but I've been busy. I had an experience earlier this month where I had to migrate the contents of a 12" iBook to one of the new MacBooks. I was looking at transferring about 28-29 GB worth of data from one computer to another via a 802.11g network connection. It was awful! I was at it over 3 hours and I still didn't get everything. I'm currently shopping around for a USB drive to carry around with me in those situations but when I think about how much faster the transfer would have been via FireWire I become annoyed with what Apple did buy leaving FireWire off the new computer. I bet the new MacBook owners would have been willing to pay the extra $$ to Apple for the FireWire port if it meant they would have had to have paid me less money to do the transfer. (I had to boot the old computer into Target Disk Mode, plug it into mine since the Airport on the old computer was broken.)(Oh, and the ethernet was broken as well.)

You also have the option of data transfer through Ethernet connection. Which is faster than Firewire, significantly faster than Wifi.
post #1530 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

You also have the option of data transfer through Ethernet connection. Which is faster than Firewire, significantly faster than Wifi.

If you notice I mentioned the Ethernet port on the unit was dead.
post #1531 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

It's not that just all of those FW-based peripherals for which the MacBook (and iBook before it) were designed to be used with (in concert with iLife, per Apple) are now relegated to the scrapyard, it's that there's no new technology that's out there that can do the same job as FW has been doing. If you're going to replace a technology, replace it with something better. People can understand that kind of path toward obsolescence but not the kind of path Apple has taken this week.

I think Apple was between a rock and a hard place so Steve Jobs had to make an executive decision, which is very similar to what happened when Apple first started using Intel processors. I am sure Apple would have preferred every Mac using Intel processors to start off 64-bit, but they had to start somewhere. I can still recall the complaints about the iMac going from 64-bit PPC to 32-bit x86.

The good news is, at least according to Wikipedia, the USB 3.0 specifications are complete as of November 17, 2008, and hardware manufacturers can start working on peripherals. The MacBook was updated with a Penryn processor just four months after it was updated with Santa Rosa so I expect Apple to get USB 3.0 into the MacBook and MacBook Pro ASAP.
post #1532 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by night9hawk View Post

If you notice I mentioned the Ethernet port on the unit was dead.

And if the FW port was broken you'd have the same issue. So what?
post #1533 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by troberts View Post

I think Apple was between a rock and a hard place so Steve Jobs had to make an executive decision, which is very similar to what happened when Apple first started using Intel processors. I am sure Apple would have preferred every Mac using Intel processors to start off 64-bit, but they had to start somewhere. I can still recall the complaints about the iMac going from 64-bit PPC to 32-bit x86.

The good news is, at least according to Wikipedia, the USB 3.0 specifications are complete as of November 17, 2008, and hardware manufacturers can start working on peripherals. The MacBook was updated with a Penryn processor just four months after it was updated with Santa Rosa so I expect Apple to get USB 3.0 into the MacBook and MacBook Pro ASAP.

what rock and which hard place?

finding the (correct) answer to that question is the entire point of this thread.

USB3 in the notebook line would be great (to replace USB2 - still can't replace FW obviously)
but as I replied to your other post in one of the 'future' threads (and has been stated here a number of times)
it won't be out for a while (late 2009 / early 2010)

Intel have only (just) released their draft host controller spec
...so you're right, it's only the peripheral makers who can start work just now
post #1534 of 1657
Wow ..can't believe some of y'all still have the energy to fight this battle.

Everyday I'm reminded of just how out of touch Apple has become.

$1300 Macbook with USB and Ethernet as the primary connectivity.

NOT HOT

http://www.macopinion.com/index.php/...aps_they_will/

Lenovo Netbook




You've gotta be kidding. When Lenovo can put a USB port on a Netbook and Expresscard34 slots Apple has not one freakin' excuse.
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post #1535 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Wow ..can't believe some of y'all still have the energy to fight this battle.

Everyday I'm reminded of just how out of touch Apple has become.

$1300 Macbook with USB and Ethernet as the primary connectivity.

NOT HOT

http://www.macopinion.com/index.php/...aps_they_will/

Lenovo Netbook

image: http://www.macopinion.com/images/uploads/T71ports.jpg

You've gotta be kidding. When Lenovo can put a USB port on a Netbook and Expresscard34 slots Apple has not one freakin' excuse.

There is a major difference between the machines, so much so that outside of being notebooks they aren't even comparable. The processing abilities, the quality, size & type of the major components used are vastly superior in the MBA over any netbook. Because Lenovo makes a really thick notebook doesn't mean that Apple should. I wonder which company has gained more net profit from their efforts?
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post #1536 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Wow ..can't believe some of y'all still have the energy to fight this battle.

You've gotta be kidding. When Lenovo can put a USB port on a Netbook and Expresscard34 slots Apple has not one freakin' excuse.

"The excuse has been floated that there simply wasn't room for FireWire or an ExpressCard slot in the slimmed-down unibody case, but I find it difficult to buy that. Of course the old school MacBook had no ExpressCard slot either, and the preceding iBook no CardBus slot -- more a matter of market placement than lack of room."

Even if Apple makes a netbook it sure as hell won't have an expresscard 34 slot. And I really doubt an Apple netbook. I get the impression that as far as Apple is concerned the iPhone/iTouch fills that segment of their lineup.
post #1537 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

[I]
Even if Apple makes a netbook it sure as hell won't have an expresscard 34 slot.

This is Apple. We mustn't put anything past them.

What if they brought out a cheap barebones NetBook which only had an ExpressCard slot?

You would just order the NetBook and add the necessary cards (Apple manufactured of course) to your order. eSATA, USB, Firewire, Card Readers, Solid State etc. Just imagine having your OSX setup sitting on a SSD in an ExpressCard module. True Plug and Play.

Now that I think about it, the idea is growing on me. The only problem would be getting Apple to do the impossible: get the pricing right!
post #1538 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avon B7 View Post

This is Apple. We mustn't put anything past them.

What if they brought out a cheap barebones NetBook which only had an ExpressCard slot?

You would just order the NetBook and add the necessary cards (Apple manufactured of course) to your order. eSATA, USB, Firewire, Card Readers, Solid State etc. Just imagine having your OSX setup sitting on a SSD in an ExpressCard module. True Plug and Play.

Now that I think about it, the idea is growing on me. The only problem would be getting Apple to do the impossible: get the pricing right!


This is the logical scenario that has escaped Apple. They are so dogmatic about their design choices and getting you to see their way of thinking it has hampered the very essence of computing. One size does not fit all. I'm fine with running a USB hub I don't need a plethora of USB ports on my computer. I'd rather have Expresscard34 cards to fit my personal needs.
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post #1539 of 1657
Apple has been missing quite a few "intelligent" and "desired" things in their lineup for years. From an engineering standpoint not having expresscard in all of their laptops is butt stupid. Likewise xMac, docking stations, thicker batteries and your favorite product that Apple doesn't make.

From a product market management standpoint...it seems to work better than any other strategy. Not Sony, Dell, HP, Lenovo etc has done a better job. Apple gets the job done with fewer sku's, less cost, higher growth and more profit.

This is why engineers typically make crappy business folks.
post #1540 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avon B7 View Post

This is Apple. We mustn't put anything past them.

What if they brought out a cheap barebones NetBook which only had an ExpressCard slot?

You would just order the NetBook and add the necessary cards (Apple manufactured of course) to your order. eSATA, USB, Firewire, Card Readers, Solid State etc. Just imagine having your OSX setup sitting on a SSD in an ExpressCard module. True Plug and Play.

Now that I think about it, the idea is growing on me. The only problem would be getting Apple to do the impossible: get the pricing right!

I hadn't thought of that.

That's actually a VERY good idea!

Hmmm!

You could get any port you wanted. You could get two or even three on one card, and switch them in and out as needed.

Hmmm!

I wonder if any companies are doing this, or are thinking about it?
post #1541 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I hadn't thought of that.

That's actually a VERY good idea!

Hmmm!

You could get any port you wanted. You could get two or even three on one card, and switch them in and out as needed.

Hmmm!

I wonder if any companies are doing this, or are thinking about it?

No, it's not a very good idea. You end up with the ports sticking out of the slot because it's too thin. A USB plug does slide into the space of the expresscard slot but you have to allow for SOME amount of casing and the slot is thinner than the USB ports on my MBP.

Maybe the mini versions of ports would work.
post #1542 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

No, it's not a very good idea. You end up with the ports sticking out of the slot because it's too thin. A USB plug does slide into the space of the expresscard slot but you have to allow for SOME amount of casing and the slot is thinner than the USB ports on my MBP.

Maybe the mini versions of ports would work.

Yeah, for versatility, it would be kinda cool, but I always hate any cards sticking out over the edge of my MBP (or the previous PowerBook, etc.) -- seemed more clumsy and breakable that way. If they could find a way to make the cards (and their ports) flush, that would be completely modular-ly great.
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post #1543 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

No, it's not a very good idea. You end up with the ports sticking out of the slot because it's too thin. A USB plug does slide into the space of the expresscard slot but you have to allow for SOME amount of casing and the slot is thinner than the USB ports on my MBP.

Maybe the mini versions of ports would work.

No, I think it's great. There will be developers who will come up with good implementations.

The idea of ports on Express cards and the older PC cards have been around for a while. I don't know of any symptomatic problems here, do you?
post #1544 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post

Yeah, for versatility, it would be kinda cool, but I always hate any cards sticking out over the edge of my MBP (or the previous PowerBook, etc.) -- seemed more clumsy and breakable that way. If they could find a way to make the cards (and their ports) flush, that would be completely modular-ly great.

It may seem that way, but where is the evidence for it?

You don't need to have the card plugged in when it's not being used.
post #1545 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It may seem that way, but where is the evidence for it?

You don't need to have the card plugged in when it's not being used.

I understand your point, but usually, say I'm on the set, we get done with a shot, we move to another set (or worse, on location, we up and drive somewhere for an afternoon shot). I usually just dump my laptop in my bag and go. I always worry about catching an over-edge card when doing that, and it also ruins the aesthetics. I had to use a firewire card years ago, and a SCSI card as well. Always hated them. Glad when I didn't have to use them anymore... which should put me into the "why'd they drop the firewire port" camp, though it doesn't.

Extra effort to be plugging and unplugging cards. It's why I like wireless backup. No muss, no fuss. But that's just me. As I said, I could see the versatility of it (and if I needed a rugged do-anything laptop for, say, astronomical imaging -- which I like -- that would be a cool thing), but I don't like it for other reasons. Sounds like it's subjective at this point. So... there is no evidence either way.
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post #1546 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post

I understand your point, but usually, say I'm on the set, we get done with a shot, we move to another set (or worse, on location, we up and drive somewhere for an afternoon shot). I usually just dump my laptop in my bag and go. I always worry about catching an over-edge card when doing that, and it also ruins the aesthetics. I had to use a firewire card years ago, and a SCSI card as well. Always hated them. Glad when I didn't have to use them anymore... which should put me into the "why'd they drop the firewire port" camp, though it doesn't.

I remember the days when I shot the Clairol Summer Blonde ads for Tv. If we hadn't locked up a location, we might do the same thing.

Of course, back then, it was "throw the Mitchell" in the van, and let's get going. Sometimes, it was also: "where's that damn Nagra?"

Quote:
Extra effort to be plugging and unplugging cards. It's why I like wireless backup. No muss, no fuss. But that's just me. As I said, I could see the versatility of it (and if I needed a rugged do-anything laptop for, say, astronomical imaging -- which I like -- that would be a cool thing), but I don't like it for other reasons. Sounds like it's subjective at this point. So... there is no evidence either way.

I think we're mostly talking about a MB as opposed to a MBP.
post #1547 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I remember the days when I shot the Clairol Summer Blonde ads for Tv. If we hadn't locked up a location, we might do the same thing.

Of course, back then, it was "throw the Mitchell" in the van, and let's get going. Sometimes, it was also: "where's that damn Nagra?"

Ahhh, Nagras... recorder of choice for in-the-field documentaries and John Lennon.



Quote:
I think we're mostly talking about a MB as opposed to a MBP.

Yeah, I know -- I was just talkin' generally. As I said, I could see a really versatile notebook that was uber-modular specifically. Would be cool. For the normal laptop (MB or MBP), I personally wouldn't want it. Just subjective.
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post #1548 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross View Post

what rock and which hard place?

Perhaps... We know the macbook and mbp (in particular) lines needed reinvigoration, design-wise. The new unibody case is here for the next 3-4 years. With USB2 to be supplanted by USB3 during this time - perhaps only a little more than a year after the introduction of the new case - and the writing on the wall for FW400 in terms of broad-appeal consumer peripherals, design decisions had to be made now - in order to save the cost of redesign/re-tooling, especially considering it being a new process.
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post #1549 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

No, I think it's great. There will be developers who will come up with good implementations.

The idea of ports on Express cards and the older PC cards have been around for a while. I don't know of any symptomatic problems here, do you?

Primarily snapping off the ports or getting them caught on something. Ever use one of the old ethernet pccards? Either you have a delicate port on the side of your laptop or this annoying adapter cable that likes to fall out a lot.

Is it a HUGE issue? No, but it screws with aesthetics and functionality in comparison to normal ports. It's great for expansion but no so hot for everyday use of a USB port.

You COULD go with a non-standard sized expresscard slot that is deeper and able to have embedded ports. That doesn't help you much though if you need a normal USB port AND want to have a normal expresscard in there...like a 3G modem. So you keep the regular 2xUSB and ethernet and add a expresscard slot for any other use so 90% of the users never have to muck with the thing. Arguably you can dump ethernet too.

Perhaps you can afford to dump all ports in favor of a single slot once wireless usb becomes common place and a travel sized hub is available.
post #1550 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Primarily snapping off the ports or getting them caught on something. Ever use one of the old ethernet pccards? Either you have a delicate port on the side of your laptop or this annoying adapter cable that likes to fall out a lot.

Is it a HUGE issue? No, but it screws with aesthetics and functionality in comparison to normal ports. It's great for expansion but no so hot for everyday use of a USB port.

You COULD go with a non-standard sized expresscard slot that is deeper and able to have embedded ports. That doesn't help you much though if you need a normal USB port AND want to have a normal expresscard in there...like a 3G modem. So you keep the regular 2xUSB and ethernet and add a expresscard slot for any other use so 90% of the users never have to muck with the thing. Arguably you can dump ethernet too.

Perhaps you can afford to dump all ports in favor of a single slot once wireless usb becomes common place and a travel sized hub is available.

If the breakage problem issue was a large one, then I could agree. But the truth is that I also see port breakage with standard ports, when someone either pulls the cable improperly, or the computer itself. I don't know if the expressport designs have much more of a problem with their ports.

But, I can say one thing about it. I'd rather have to replace a cheap Express card because of a broken port than have to send my computer in because of a broken port.

As far as esthetics goes, that's in the eye of the beholder, as it's said. I wouldn't keep it in all the time, only when I needed it. I would keep them with the cables, no loss issue for me, as I'm pretty good about that.

The advantage of having the ability to add any port I wanted to, no matter what Apple was thinking, would, by far, outweigh any disadvantages it would add, which, to me right now, seem to be minor.

One more thing, as someone sometimes says.

The issue of esthetics is interesting in this context. We see here how many guys complain that Apple is concerned too much with esthetics, and not enough with practicality. Now I see two guys saying that this idea wouldn't be esthetic enough, even though it would be practical (other that the POSSIBLE breakage issue).

We can see how Apple must tread that fine line. They can't make everyone happy at the same time.
post #1551 of 1657
Ummmmm, i think its time to make this thread a Sticky...... its never going to end!
post #1552 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan330 View Post

Ummmmm, i think its time to make this thread a Sticky...... its never going to end!

Or rather, lock the thread.

This will be an issue until 1) Apple brings back FW; 2) No new FW400 accessories are made and enough time has passed that people have upgraded their FW accessories to USB; 3) FWoE gets made; 4) Apocalypse.
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post #1553 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Or rather, lock the thread.

This will be an issue until 1) Apple brings back FW; 2) No new FW400 accessories are made and enough time has passed that people have upgraded their FW accessories to USB; 3) FWoE gets made; 4) Apocalypse.

I liked the "upgraded to USB" part.
post #1554 of 1657
Mitchells and Nagras!

Was this back when Melgross had long hair, wore tight plaid slacks, and drove a Mercury Cougar

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Of course, back then, it was "throw the Mitchell" in the van, and let's get going. Sometimes, it was also: "where's that damn Nagra?"
post #1555 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Mitchells and Nagras!

Was this back when Melgross had long hair, wore tight plaid slacks, and drove a Mercury Cougar

Let's see.

I've had long hair since I was thirteen. Indeed, I've had a fairly long ponytail for quite a few years.

I only had one pair of tartan plaid slacks, in the 80's.

Only owned a Fleetwood. Haven't driven for years (long story, but nothing due to an accident, or illegality).

But, yeah, this was from the early '70's.
post #1556 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Or rather, lock the thread.

This will be an issue until 1) Apple brings back FW; 2) No new FW400 accessories are made and enough time has passed that people have upgraded their FW accessories to USB; 3) FWoE gets made; 4) Apocalypse.

Not everyone is willing to just dump a technology that is both faster and more useful (TDM) just so Apple can shave off a couple of millimeters of thickness. There are those of us who chose the Mac for other than social reasons. Once upon a time, the Mac was actually about getting things done, now its just about being different or cool.
post #1557 of 1657
Yeah, I cannot see how Apple can possibly resist this rational explanation and reverse course on firewire. They cannot seem to understand that their increase in sales is based more on empty popularity than people actually being able to get work done on their machines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Not everyone is willing to just dump a technology that is both faster and more useful (TDM) just so Apple can shave off a couple of millimeters of thickness. There are those of us who chose the Mac for other than social reasons. Once upon a time, the Mac was actually about getting things done, now its just about being different or cool.
post #1558 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Not everyone is willing to just dump a technology that is both faster and more useful (TDM) just so Apple can shave off a couple of millimeters of thickness. There are those of us who chose the Mac for other than social reasons. Once upon a time, the Mac was actually about getting things done, now its just about being different or cool.

No one is asking you to dump a technology. Their are are current MB and MBPs that have FW, as well as all the options on their refurbished site or other Pc vendors with 4-pin and 6-pin FW. You aren't required to get a new Mac just because Apple releases one. If you can't find a machine that fits your aging FW400 accesories and felt that a unibody MB is the only option for you, except the criminal lack of FW400, then it sounds to be that you are wanting a Mac and FW simple to make yourself more elitist.

PS: How are Macs more about being different and less about productivity when they are focusing on a ubiquitous data transfer tech over a comparitively unknown and unused technology for their entry level notebook category? You have that backwards.
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post #1559 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

No one is asking you to dump a technology. Their are are current MB and MBPs that have FW, as well as all the options on their refurbished site or other Pc vendors with 4-pin and 6-pin FW. You aren't required to get a new Mac just because Apple releases one. If you can't find a machine that fits your aging FW400 accesories and felt that a unibody MB is the only option for you, except the criminal lack of FW400, then it sounds to be that you are wanting a Mac and FW simple to make yourself more elitist.

I bought Macs because they used to offer better designs and functionality above what you find in the PC world. They're getting rid of that functionality and selling only a name. They are becoming no more than the Ikea or Abercrombie. If its elitist to have a computer that actually does just work or have technology to recover files easily should something go wrong, than admit it, I'm elitist. Yes, I have actually been in a position where I have had to use target disk mode in an emergency. I would rather add 3mm of thickness than have to drive to madison and pay a couple hundred to the Apple store to get my files. I'll pay a bit more for a superior computer. Apple used to offer such computers until they found out they could sell a bunch to teenagers and college students on image alone.

Also, how the hell can you accuse me of being here for social reasons? I actually use my Mac as a tool. From the unwavering support you give Apple when they take something away, I can't venture that you use yours for anything above general computing. You also seem to consider Apple's marketing tactics to be some sort of real world distinction between consumers and Pros. Spend a good money on a machine that cannot do what the five year old half dead Mac that it replaces and you might start to appreciate things. Computers are not about image, or some us vs them thing, they are a tool, nothing more, nothing less. If your screwdriver breaks and the ones at the hardware store can't work with your screws for aesthetic reasons, you wouldn't be very happy.

You guys thinks that if Apple doesn't give us more practical options, we can leave, just like that. It isn't that simple. First, Windows through Vista sucks. Windows 7 might be alright, but it doesn't exist yet. Second, I have hundred of dollars invested in Mac OS X software. Since Apple won't let anyone else make computers based on that operating system, I would have to spend hundreds of more dollars to get the same or similar software on windows. The tree in your backyard may be growing 50s instead of leaves, but the rest of us aren't so lucky. Third, I don't see anything on windows that can use iLife or iWork files. What does that all mean? It means for many of us, we're stuck on this platform.

Quote:
PS: How are Macs more about being different and less about productivity when they are focusing on a ubiquitous data transfer tech over a comparitively unknown and unused technology for their entry level notebook category? You have that backwards.

$1300 IS NOT ENTRY LEVEL. Get off the koolaid for a minute and look around. The Macbook is a premium notebook. Not only do I expect more from a machine in that price range, I expect more from Apple. Why? Because Apple used to give us more. No other computer company could give you very usable tools for video, music, and photos with the ports to use the accessories of your choice. Apple used to be the computer for the more demanding user. Now they're just Dell for the Eddie Bauer crowd. From the software to hardware, everything is getting features deleted instead of adding new ones.
post #1560 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

I bought Macs because they used to offer better designs and functionality above what you find in the PC world. They're getting rid of that functionality and selling only a name. They are becoming no more than the Ikea or Abercrombie. If its elitist to have a computer that actually does just work or have technology to recover files easily should something go wrong, than admit it, I'm elitist.

There you go! We know get tot he crux of why people want to FW400 even though it's a dying port interface technology.

Quote:
I'll pay a bit more for a superior computer. Apple used to offer such computers until they found out they could sell a bunch to teenagers and college students on image alone.

Then, according to your posts, you should be happy because you can now by a superior computer for less money.


Quote:
$1300 IS NOT ENTRY LEVEL.

Their refers to Apple. Notebook refers to non-desktop-grade AIOs. Entry level refers to Apple's cheapest notebook category. Hence my comment, "their entry level notebook category".

Quote:
Get off the koolaid for a minute and look around.

Kool-Aid would refer to those that expect Apple to make product to only suit their needs, not to make products that make them money. Which one of us will buy a machine because it suits our needs and which one of us wants Apple to go against its grain to offer a dying port interface just so we can have a more elitist machine? Which one of us is apparently not happy with the $999 MB with FW400 because it doesn't have the new case design so we can show off how elitist we are?

I'll reiterate: If Apple isn't making a product that fits your needs then find another company that does. Apple has been moving away from FW400 for years now so expecting them to reverse direction now seems very unlikely.

Quote:
The Macbook is a premium notebook.

Only if you compare it to cheap notebooks, but do you really think it's fair and genuine to compare Apple's cheapest offering to HP's cheapest offering?

Quote:
Not only do I expect more from a machine in that price range, I expect more from Apple. Why? Because Apple used to give us more.

No, they didn't. This machine is much more powerful better built than any other MB or iBook before it, even the ones that cost more. The new Nividia graphics are now powerful enough to best many of the discrete GPUs that offered on their previous flagship notebooks.

Quote:
No other computer company could give you very usable tools for video, music, and photos with the ports to use the accessories of your choice. Apple used to be the computer for the more demanding user. Now they're just Dell for the Eddie Bauer crowd. From the software to hardware, everything is getting features deleted instead of adding new ones.

Since when has Apple been about adding HW features and Dell is about deleting HW features. I bet I can find Dell machine that still have VGA ports and PCMCIA slots. Apple has always been about seeing where the future of computing is going and heading that way, sometimes even creating the path as they go.

Again: If you are too elitist to get a MB with FW400 and just have to use FW400, then by a non-Mac PC that does have FW400. Buy products that fit your needs.
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