AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Jobs responds to outrage over MacBook's missing FireWire
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Jobs responds to outrage over MacBook's missing FireWire - Page 5

post #161 of 1663
10/16/08 at 9:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Why would an iPod need to have Firewire? It has it's only battery so the bus power of FW
isn't needed and the bidirectional benefits of FW do not come into play either.

The smart choice was to move the iPods to USB though that does not mean that USB is
always the smart choice over Firewire.

If we rewind memory, there was a huge outcry. The reason was very similar to today.

Syncing over FW was faster than USB, way way faster than USB1, and when Apple pulled FW, a lot of not-so-old (1 or 2 year old) Macs had USB 1.1 (not 2.0).

Just to refresh some memory, this is the first article I found regarding the issue (Apple not including FW cable, as the first step)
http://news.cnet.com/Apple-takes-a-s...3-5587951.html

I believe later 2005, Nano comes with USB only.

I am just saying the writing was on the wall for years now (3 years, to be exact). Give it another two years, I think you will agree with me.
Reply
Reply
post #162 of 1663
10/16/08 at 9:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

??? Pardon, I am not sure I can make any sense out of this... Apple is out of control designing their own notebooks? (Well, uh, whatever. In this case it does make sense to talk 15 minutes about torturing aluminum instead...)

Every single Apple user I know is using Firewire - and even if you only use it once to transfer your data and settings from the previous Mac... so the real figure should be closer to 100% than 2%. And performing this transfer over LAN/WiFi is not an equal option at all (unless you have nothing else to do in life).

Apple used to be about people who change the world and think different - that's INDIVIDUALS... they were better at that than at assuming what the majority might use. There is no financial or logical or engineering argument why you cannot put a FW port (or a small ExpressCard slot) into a laptop of that size (if I remember correctly they were doing just that until 3 days ago). It is just blackmailing users to buy the next bigger thing. I would happily pay them the price of the 15" MBP for a 13" MB with Firewire (even if this would be a complete rip off). As it stands all the marvel of Apple engineering can do today is create a 13.3" laptop that is more restricted than the 12" PowerBook several years ago. Fatigue?

I am not alluding everything else is the same, except for the lack of OS X the X200 beats the crap out of all MacBooks and MacBook Airs Apple has on offer and is quite a bit cheaper. The only thing it lacks is a nice aluminum shell. If Apple cannot build any decent machine being smaller than 15.4" and weighing 5 lbs - they should license their OS to somebody with this ability.

Those 12" Powerbooks.. great machine
Reply
Reply
post #163 of 1663
10/16/08 at 9:39pm
Look, I don't want to argue over this -- I'd just like some practical information: how -- specifically -- do I now transfer large files from my black MacBook to a new (non-FW) MacBook? For years the only really solid, reliable and fast way to do that has been to connect a FW cable between Macs and restart while pressing the T key.

Despite claims made here by some, that just doesn't work reliably with USB -- so please, just explain what we should do now?

Thank you.
Reply
Reply
post #164 of 1663
10/16/08 at 9:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iedsri View Post

Look, I don't want to argue over this -- I'd just like some practical information: how -- specifically -- do I now transfer large files from my black MacBook to a new (non-FW) MacBook? For years the only really solid, reliable and fast way to do that has been to connect a FW cable between Macs and restart while pressing the T key.

Despite claims made here by some, that just doesn't work reliably with USB -- so please, just explain what we should do now?

Thank you.

What do you mean it doesn't work RELIABLY with USB? It doesn't work AT ALL.

Copy over ethernet.

Or do what I do....use a 4GB USB key.
Reply
Reply
post #165 of 1663
10/16/08 at 9:44pm
I don't think it's a mistake. We will get over it.
Apple had me at scrolling
Reply
Apple had me at scrolling
Reply
post #166 of 1663
10/16/08 at 9:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post


I am just saying the writing was on the wall for years now (3 years, to be exact). Give it another two years, I think you will agree with me.

Oh I agree with you. In my case hindsight is 20/20 here and I began to notice a couple of years ago that Apple really didn't have much Apple branded FW gear. I do agree that their interest in pushing it as a consumer interconnect waned years ago.

They will continue to focus on it within their Pro lineup and I bet we see FW 3.2Gbps in the Nehalem Mac Pros.

I believe that Mac fans have every right to complain but I don't see Apple capitulating here.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
post #167 of 1663
10/16/08 at 9:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Correct...FW800 will indeed disappear by the time USB 3.0 comes out. Firewire 3200 will be shipping as the high end FW of choice then.

FW3200 should be out before USB3.0, and it uses the same port as FW800.

FireWire S1600 and S3200
In December 2007, the 1394 Trade Association announced that products will be available before the end of 2008 using the S1600 and S3200 modes that, for the most part, had already been defined in 1394b. The 1.6 Gbit/s and 3.2 Gbit/s devices will use the same 9-pin connectors as the existing FireWire 800 and will be fully compatible with existing S400 and S800 devices. It will compete with the forthcoming USB 3.0.
[edit]FireWire S800T (IEEE 1394c-2006)

Something interesting I found at Wikipedia (unconfirmed) about FW over RJ-45 (Ethernet)

FireWire is enhanced to share gigabit Category 5e cable
IEEE 1394c-2006 was published on June 8, 2007.
It provides the following improvements
A new port specification which provides 800 Mbit/s over the same RJ45 connectors with Category 5e cable which is specified in IEEE 802.3 clause 40 (gigabit Ethernet over copper twisted pair)
An automatic negotiation that allows the same port to connect to either IEEE Std 1394 or IEEE 802.3 (Ethernet) devices.
Various minor updates to IEEE 1394b
Though the potential for a combined Ethernet and FireWire RJ45 port is intriguing, as of December 2007, there are no products or chipsets which include this capability.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

??? Pardon, I am not sure I can make any sense out of this... Apple is out of control designing their own notebooks? (Well, uh, whatever. In this case it does make sense to talk 15 minutes about torturing aluminum instead...)

You can't that Apple "cannot", I was larking that the correct term is that they "won't", as they surely can do it they wanted to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iedsri View Post

Look, I don't want to argue over this -- I'd just like some practical information: how -- specifically -- do I now transfer large files from my black MacBook to a new (non-FW) MacBook?

Do a Software Update. Migration Assistant has been updated (40MB) to work over WiFi, USB, and Ethernet.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #168 of 1663
10/16/08 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

the Pro model is there for your professional needs.

Show me a 13" MacBook Pro and I'll buy it immediately. The 15" model is not an option. Neither is the last model with it's pathetic excuse for a graphics card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

I wish Apple had standardized on FW800 for all their Macs, but I can accept that the lower end will only offer USB.

Lower end? Are you joking? Apple does not make anything "lower end". The Macbook is at best midrange and it's features as well as it's price bear that out. If you think $1299 is lower end, you need to get out more.
Reply
Reply
post #169 of 1663
10/16/08 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

I am not alluding everything else is the same, except for the lack of OS X the X200 beats the crap out of all MacBooks and MacBook Airs Apple has on offer and is quite a bit cheaper. The only thing it lacks is a nice aluminum shell. If Apple cannot build any decent machine being smaller than 15.4" and weighing 5 lbs - they should license their OS to somebody with this ability.

The Lenovo X200 is configured so differently from the Macs its somewhat difficult to make a comparison. For $1099 it has a faster processor, but comes with 1GB of RAM, an 80GB HDD, no bluetooth, and Intel GMA X4500. Compared to the stock MacBook it lacks more than only the aluminum shell.

It has some pluses and minuses. Graphics being a big minus. To configure it more in line with the stock MacBook costs $1,402

I'm not sure how you figure this kills the MacBook.
Reply
Reply
post #170 of 1663
10/16/08 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by plokoonpma View Post

Sorry man, I wont write something if it didn't happened to me, thats how I use to say things, thru personal experience. I have lost 3 USB 2.0 externals cause the drops and 2 internal HD's on the Mac itself. I gave USB 2.0 cases and standard a very good try for 2 years and didn't worked almost as flawless Firewire has been doing. The only disk I ever lost over a Firewire case was totally my fault cause I dropped the case from 4 feet high.

If it would happened once I would say it was random, but several times is not right

I did not mean to say you were making something up - if it did sound like that I do apologize. I just assume that the reasoning may be flawed, in a sense of confusing cause and effect. A system restore for sure does not fail because of a dropping data rate - that is technically impossible, I have restored systems through coupled dial-up connections using Ghost - no USB drive can be any slower. There must be a reason for the drop and the failure and it is not unlikely to be related to USB (e.g. if you have more than one USB device connected the bus may run out of power at some point, especially with external USB cases with poor controllers, even a malfunctioning mouse can bring down the entire bus), but still the drop in speed cannot cause the failure - the drop in speed is a symptom of the same failure.
Reply
Reply
post #171 of 1663
10/16/08 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Wow..you're really struggling with your argumentation aren't you?
I've articulated the technical reason why Firewire is suitable for audio applications over USB and the best you can do is launch ad hominem attacts and , blah blah blah


Don't even try being patronizing; I was already making music on my LC575 in the early 90s. I fully understand the benefits of FW over USB. What I am saying, and it's astonishing that I have to spell it out for you, is that if you absolutely need those benefits---this is different from *wanting,* do you understand?––then you are a pro. If you are NOT a pro, then you don't NEED it. Period.


Because if you did, then you would buy the MacBook Pro in a nanosecond, and not waste any of your precious creative hours on this board bitching about the lack of FW400 on the new MacBooks.


Now, why don't you go ahead and address the other, very valid point I make; why can't you settle for a white 2.4GHz MacBook that is pretty much on par, spec-wise, with the higher end new MacBook (since you won't be using that 9400M much when working in audio apps), that you can get for $600 cheaper? Which will not become obsolete for several years, at which point this will be a total non-issue??
Reply
Reply
post #172 of 1663
10/16/08 at 9:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You use Gigabit Ethernet, which I find to be very necessary for my home network.



Windows only and $86? Not an ideal soltuion by any means.

At that price you can get a pci-e 800 card or a $12-$20 pci-e card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The cheapest MacBook that Apple sells with FW400 costs $999, and it's a fine machine that is tried and true.


Problem solved, spend $300 less for a MacBook with FW400.

or plan b efix for laptops when it comes out.
Reply
Reply
post #173 of 1663
10/16/08 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iedsri View Post

Look, I don't want to argue over this -- I'd just like some practical information: how -- specifically -- do I now transfer large files from my black MacBook to a new (non-FW) MacBook? For years the only really solid, reliable and fast way to do that has been to connect a FW cable between Macs and restart while pressing the T key.

Despite claims made here by some, that just doesn't work reliably with USB -- so please, just explain what we should do now?

Thank you.

Hi, You can hook'em up over a ethernet or a network and transfer the data you want. You can clone almost all your system to a new macbook but is kind of more work for somebody is not used too.
I can do clones of machines without the setup assistant over firewire but is a lot of copying.

So lets keep it simple, ethernet/network then transfer. Hope it helps a bit
Reply
Reply
post #174 of 1663
10/16/08 at 9:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawhead View Post

Now, why don't you go ahead and address the other, very valid point I make; why can't you settle for a white 2.4GHz MacBook that is pretty much on par, spec-wise, with the higher end new MacBook (since you won't be using that 9400M much when working in audio apps), that you can get for $600 cheaper? Which will not become obsolete for several years, at which point this will be a total non-issue??



BTW, I've already spoken with two of my DJ/creator pals in Tokyo, and while they are both disappointed about the lack of FW in the new MacBooks, they understand the move, are not going bonkers over it, and one is already committing to buy a new MBP, and the other is contemplating snatching up the 2.4GHz black MacBook while supplies last. Really, that is the attitude some of you need.
Reply
Reply
post #175 of 1663
10/16/08 at 9:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

It adds $10 to the machine.
Does it make sense to make everyone pay $10 extra?

In order to have their data salvageable when their Mac doesn't boot, yes, yes it does make sense.

It is the same as paying extra on your car for airbags when only a small percentage of us will ever get into a head-on accident. It's insurance against loss, provides peace of mind, and is just plain smart.
Reply
Reply
post #176 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon View Post

or plan b efix for laptops when it comes out.

EFiX is pretty cool, but the chip has to be tailored to each MoBo, which is going to be a tough battle. I think it's pretty cool tech and can't wait to see it splayed out. Unlike Psystar, I see no violation of Apple's patents or copyrights, just their EULA, which means nothing. So it looks like Apple's can only recourse is to out tech them with future versions of OS X.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #177 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawhead View Post

Now, why don't you go ahead and address the other, very valid point I make; why can't you settle for a white 2.4GHz MacBook that is pretty much on par, spec-wise, with the higher end new MacBook (since you won't be using that 9400M much when working in audio apps), that you can get for $600 cheaper? Which will not become obsolete for several years, at which point this will be a total non-issue??

Hmmm! Interesting point.

'murch, he's got you on that one.
Reply
Reply
post #178 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

I did not mean to say you were making something up - if it did sound like that I do apologize. I just assume that the reasoning may be flawed, in a sense of confusing cause and effect. A system restore for sure does not fail because of a dropping data rate - that is technically impossible, I have restored systems through coupled dial-up connections using Ghost - no USB drive can be any slower. There must be a reason for the drop and the failure and it is not unlikely to be related to USB (e.g. if you have more than one USB device connected the bus may run out of power at some point, especially with external USB cases with poor controllers, even a malfunctioning mouse can bring down the entire bus), but still the drop in speed cannot cause the failure - the drop in speed is a symptom of the same failure.

Its ok man, not anyone had that bad luck with those USB 2.0 as me.
It is just it will make my work harder. Almost all those new switcher has no experience on Macs and they tend to complicate too much simple stuff. Since the macbook is the best selling computer.... that only means for me that I will service exponentially more of those and now I will have to create a new system to do it cause the old methods wont work.

I probably will end up paying for a script to automatize copy of data over the affected machine, that will make more easier to transfer data manually and clone the damaged comp more easier.
Reply
Reply
post #179 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:02pm
Upon examining the MB chassis and logic board it's clear to me there was no technical basis for removing the Firewire. There's room for FW and including it would only increase the cost of the Macbook incrementally.

That leave me to conclude AAPL crippled the Macbook strictly for marketing purposes. In so doing they pissed off a lot of users (like me) who have taken AAPL's lead and invested heavily in Firewire. It's also unlike AAPL to downgrade to an inferior technology like USB in their new products. Remember, a CD-ROM was a step-up from a floppy drive -- not a step down!

I predict AAPL may reincorporate FW in the MB because in the past AAPL has admitted and remedied former missteps. The $600 iPhone, for example. I know it's a long shot but we'll see. I left feedback with AAPL to this effect.
Reply
Reply
post #180 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

Lower end? Are you joking? Apple does not make anything "lower end". The Macbook is at best midrange and it's features as well as it's price bear that out. If you think $1299 is lower end, you need to get out more.

He's obviously talking about the lower-end for Apple's notebooks. We all know you can buy an HP or Dell notebook for $400. And by your definition the most expensive 17" MBP isn't high-end either as there are plenty of notebooks that cost many more times its cost.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #181 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

What do you mean it doesn't work RELIABLY with USB? It doesn't work AT ALL.

And that's the huge question nobody seems to know the answer to:

Why has Apple not created a USB Target Disk Mode to replace Firewire Target Disk Mode?

It should be technically possible.
Reply
Reply
post #182 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Hmmm! Interesting point.

'murch, he's got you on that one.

Even better, a refurbished Macbook Pro for $1350, just $50 more than the new low end Macbook, with larger screen, 2 Firewire ports (400 and 800) and ExpressCard slot.

Extremely tempting....
Reply
Reply
post #183 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

And that's the huge question nobody seems to know the answer to:

Why has Apple not created a USB Target Disk Mode to replace Firewire Target Disk Mode?

It should be technically possible.

Well....why bother? With the new Macbook, getting the HD out is extremely easy. Take it out, put into an external 2.5" HD case, essentially you get the Target Disk Mode.
Reply
Reply
post #184 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

Upon examining the MB chassis and logic board it's clear to me there was no technical basis for removing the Firewire. There's room for FW and including it would only increase the cost of the Macbook incrementally.

That leave me to conclude AAPL crippled the Macbook strictly for marketing purposes. In so doing they pissed off a lot of users (like me) who have taken AAPL's lead and invested heavily in Firewire. It's also unlike AAPL to downgrade to an inferior technology like USB in their new products. Remember, a CD-ROM was a step-up from a floppy drive -- not a step down!

I predict AAPL may reincorporate FW in the MB because in the past AAPL has admitted and remedied former missteps. The $600 iPhone, for example. I know it's a long shot but we'll see. I left feedback with AAPL to this effect.

this is absolutely correct. As part of a normal upgrade cycle for people who have mac laptops, a firewire port represents an ability to use countless periferals. If the macbook had any other expansion option (firewire, FW800, or an expansion card slot), this would all be a non-issue.

I understand why apple did it, but it just sucks. All of my mac friends who were ready to pull the trigger had to really stop and think: Is my g4 12 inch really that bad? At least I can still use my external drive.

For some people this is no big deal. If you have a couple of external FW drives, and any other more exotic FW devices like a camcorder, the new macbook is a no go.

Why didn't they just add the damn thing? or at least give us some warning: BTW, we're phasing out firewire. tell us maybe a year ago or whenever you decided that it wasn't going to be important to us. WTF.
Reply
Reply
post #185 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawhead View Post

Now, why don't you go ahead and address the other, very valid point I make; why can't you settle for a white 2.4GHz MacBook that is pretty much on par, spec-wise, with the higher end new MacBook (since you won't be using that 9400M much when working in audio apps), that you can get for $600 cheaper? Which will not become obsolete for several years, at which point this will be a total non-issue??

what will happen when the Snow Leopard comes which requires greater graphic power, u r investment on $999 (just for firewire) macbook will vanish once Snow leopard announced (next 6 to 12 months) ...

when people say they want firewire, it is their valid point ... 90% may not need that, but still 10% needs them, remember all these guys/girls are loyal apple customer.

Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

Reply

Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

Reply
post #186 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:18pm
Geez, what a bunch of whiners. Firewire is dead. Mourn it if you want, but sooner or later you'll all have to move on.

Anyway, if you have a recent Mac (Intel), it'll be good for at least a couple more years. That's plenty of time for you to replace anything you have that "needs" Firewire.
Reply
Reply
post #187 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

Upon examining the MB chassis and logic board it's clear to me there was no technical basis for removing the Firewire. There's room for FW and including it would only increase the cost of the Macbook incrementally.

Of course it's all about marketing. Other vendors go the other way by adding every point they can think of to make the tech specs look more impressive., but ho needs VGA, HDMI, Serial and Parallel Ports. I saw new PC notebook that had all that. Different goals for different Co.'s.

Quote:
That leave me to conclude AAPL crippled the Macbook strictly for marketing purposes. In so doing they pissed off a lot of users (like me) who have taken AAPL's lead and invested heavily in Firewire.

There have been years of evidence of Apple letting go of FW400 which was clearly obsolescing.

Quote:
It's also unlike AAPL to downgrade to an inferior technology like USB in their new products. Remember, a CD-ROM was a step-up from a floppy drive -- not a step down!

Not true. The PowerBooks had DL-burning SuperDrives, The 15" MBPs that replaced them only a SL-burning SuperDrive for 2 revisions, until the tech advanced to allow DL-burning on the 9.5mm optical drives.

Quote:
I predict AAPL may reincorporate FW in the MB because in the past AAPL has admitted and remedied former missteps. The $600 iPhone, for example. I know it's a long shot but we'll see. I left feedback with AAPL to this effect.

That was a price reduction after the surge had died down, they did no change to the HW midstream. The cases you see in the MB and MBP will be pretty much the same for the next 3-4 years. Hopefully, they will add the chip(s) that allow FW400/800 over Ethernet as I posted above in an earlier post. That could probably be done cheaply, and be beneficial, but we can do Migration Assistant over any of the ports now, so that is a plus.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #188 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

Even better, a refurbished Macbook Pro for $1350, just $50 more than the new low end Macbook, with larger screen, 2 Firewire ports (400 and 800) and ExpressCard slot.

Extremely tempting....

Sure, there are a number of ways to do it.

I'm not thrilled they removed FW either. Though just 6 months ago, on another forum here about the new 3200 FW spec, I was saying that FW's life was about over. That it was a loser compared to SATA on transfer speeds and reliability, and as soon as power over SATA and E-SATA comes out (the spec is finished) next year, the need for FW will be less than ever. I got pounded for that (as whenever I say something unpopular).

But, Apple is doing it again. They don't see the need. This will likely speed the use of USB 2 or 3 for more machines in PCland that now use FW, and there ain't many!

I've dropped my FW towers for E-SATA towers, and I'm much happier for it. FW is a pain.

We just need better A/D boxes that work over USB 2 or 3 instead of the FW models (of which I have two).
Reply
Reply
post #189 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

Even better, a refurbished Macbook Pro for $1350, just $50 more than the new low end Macbook, with larger screen, 2 Firewire ports (400 and 800) and ExpressCard slot.

Extremely tempting....

after the stock runs out what happens? all of the customer should buy laptop now and keep in the drawer?

Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

Reply

Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

Reply
post #190 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanmugam View Post

what will happen when the Snow Leopard comes which requires greater graphic power, u r investment on $999 (just for firewire) macbook will vanish once Snow leopard announced (next 6 to 12 months) ...

when people say they want firewire, it is their valid point ... 90% may not need that, but still 10% needs them, remember all these guys/girls are loyal apple customer.

Most people do work that doesn't need graphics firepower, 10.6 or not.

Otherwise, the Macbook wouldn't BE Apple's hottest selling machine, slow graphics and all!
Reply
Reply
post #191 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The Lenovo X200 is configured so differently from the Macs its somewhat difficult to make a comparison. For $1099 it has a faster processor, but comes with 1GB of RAM, an 80GB HDD, no bluetooth, and Intel GMA X4500. Compared to the stock MacBook it lacks more than only the aluminum shell.

It has some pluses and minuses. Graphics being a big minus. To configure it more in line with the stock MacBook costs $1,402

I'm not sure how you figure this kills the MacBook.

Well, I have received an offer today with the 2GB RAM, 250 GB HD configuration for a total of 1450 USD (including 3 year international warranty) from my dealer. And, no matter how I look at it, it is tempting. It is smaller than any Apple notebook in existence, it has more features than even the 17" MacBook Pro and Lenovo at least has working support in Germany (Apple's in Germany is not even laughable). It does have Bluetooth and an integrated Webcam, the GPU is not bothering me - ingesting videos and photos in the field does not require any GPU power at all. For tasks that require GPU power I have a Mac Pro.

How I figure it kills the MacBook? Well, the primary market for a 13" device is people wanting a small (and maybe affordable) laptop, not a workstation replacement. I do need things in a small laptop that I require outdoors or at a customer's location (like UMTS if they do not allow me on their network, the ability to capture video and photos) in the smallest package possible. Based on this requirement the MacBook fails on all accounts (almost as much as the MBA)... no UMTS (and no means to add it via ExpressCard), thanks to the iPhone lockdown no tethering there either, no ports, but a stupid optical drive I have not used in a lifetime (as it is substandard anyhow). Just a lot of weight and shiny metal for big money... a price point at which you can get fully equipped 17" workstations elsewhere (a lot uglier, I know). I love OS X and I accept a certain Apple premium, I just think that this time they went far too far. And I have a certain impression that they have lost track of their line-up as well.
Reply
Reply
post #192 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:22pm
15" is too big for me. The white/black plastic MacBook does not fit my fashion style (which is important if one is a fashion photographer).

Many people continue to use their old 12" Powerbook because it is very easy to always keep with you.
Those of us that thought we had finally foulnd a replacement are very disappointed.

I always carry a small external firewire disk that needs no external power supply with me that I can boot off in case there is a problem.

I use chained firewire disks to assure that I have automatic backups of photos, music and movies.

What used to be simple would no longer be simple.
Reply
Reply
post #193 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

... The Press is getting tired of Apple "special" events only to walk out bored. When they walk in and get the Jobs Spin they know they've been had. ...

does anyone remember the audience applauding at any point during the announcements? I remember several pregnant pauses, ones i thought were built-in in anticipation of an audience response, that were met with silence. I know this wasn't a mac fanboy mwsf keynote audience, but i've seen earlier press event video and the audience showed its approval at numerous points. this time, not so much...
Reply
Reply
post #194 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

Well....why bother? With the new Macbook, getting the HD out is extremely easy. Take it out, put into an external 2.5" HD case, essentially you get the Target Disk Mode.

How does this method help:
1. MacBook Air owners,
2. MacBook owners lacking a Torx-5 driver, an external HD case, and/or confidence in popping out an HD.

I thought Macs were supposed to be user-friendly. Removing Target Disk Mode de-friendly-izes them so much it makes owners obtain and use an obscure screwdriver and other geek tools.

Does Apple want to become Dell? They sure seem to be moving that way. Apple differentiated (past tense) itself by having cool features, useful features, features you never wanted to be without again once you discovered them. Target Disk Mode is definitely one of those features.

And it didn't have to be like that. All they had to do was migrate Target Disk Mode to the USB ports. I'm sure they have the engineering skill in Cupertino to pull this off.
Reply
Reply
post #195 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtdunham View Post

does anyone remember the audience applauding at any point during the announcements? I remember several pregnant pauses, ones i thought were built-in in anticipation of an audience response, that were met with silence. I know this wasn't a mac fanboy mwsf keynote audience, but i've seen earlier press event video and the audience showed its approval at numerous points. this time, not so much...

i wish they announce new products on MWSF or WWDC or just online update ... the kick of watching keynote also disappearing ...

Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

Reply

Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

Reply
post #196 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by plokoonpma View Post

Its ok man, not anyone had that bad luck with those USB 2.0 as me.
It is just it will make my work harder. Almost all those new switcher has no experience on Macs and they tend to complicate too much simple stuff. Since the macbook is the best selling computer.... that only means for me that I will service exponentially more of those and now I will have to create a new system to do it cause the old methods wont work.

I probably will end up paying for a script to automatize copy of data over the affected machine, that will make more easier to transfer data manually and clone the damaged comp more easier.

Hmm, have you looked at something like http://www.bombich.com/software/netrestore.html - just carry an Airport Extreme, hook up the machine in question to the network and install away?
Reply
Reply
post #197 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Most people do work that doesn't need graphics firepower, 10.6 or not.
Otherwise, the Macbook wouldn't BE Apple's hottest selling machine, slow graphics and all!

Speaking of...
What do you think the move to NVIDIA means for Apple's long-game? Attracting PC gamers seems pointless. I'm thinking that they have have high expectations of OpenCL being about to really boost the performance for their machines, but do you have a better idea?

PS: As much as I like the new machine method and the performance 'statements' of the NIVIDIA chips, I have doubts about both and will be waiting a couple months until I update my current Mac notebook. Mostly, I don't trust NVIDIA enough to jump into a new Mac right now.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #198 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

How does this method help:
1. MacBook Air owners,
2. MacBook owners lacking a Torx-5 driver, an external HD case, and/or confidence in popping out an HD.

I thought Macs were supposed to be user-friendly. Removing Target Disk Mode de-friendly-izes them so much it makes owners obtain and use an obscure screwdriver and other geek tools.

Does Apple want to become Dell? They sure seem to be moving that way....

One can't provide confidence, but the Torx costs $4, and is available as a tip for a couple of bucks in almost any hardware store. The SATA case costs $29.95, and can be bought in a number of places.

I have to say though, that most of the time, if the disk is corrupted enough so that the machine won't boot from it or the drive won't mount, it's also too corrupted for target disk mode as well. I've tried it a number of times on people's machines, and it only worked a few times. The other times, I had to take the disk out, use equipment to do a bit by bit copy to another drive (putting the contents in a folder). Then I used software to try and extract files. Not easy, and lots of stuff gets lost forever, unless you want to spend in the high three figures, or four figures, to get it recovered.

For just transferring information, Ethernet works best, and is faster than FW 800, if you use GB Ethernet, which is pretty cheap, and common, these days.
Reply
Reply
post #199 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I've captured 50Mbps DVC-Pro HD across USB. It does work.

DVCPRO HD from tape or p2? Because your unfairly skewing the argument under the assumption that the OP knows nothing of what you speak. Obviously taking dvcpro hd files through usb from a p2 reader is nothing to write home about, that isn't real time transfer the way you need for dv or hdv from tape. Your post is misdirection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleinsider vBulletin Message

You have been banned for the following reason:
Three personal attacks in one post. Congratulations.
Date the ban will be lifted:...
Reply
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleinsider vBulletin Message

You have been banned for the following reason:
Three personal attacks in one post. Congratulations.
Date the ban will be lifted:...
Reply
post #200 of 1663
10/16/08 at 10:33pm
Again, some of this shock and outrage would have been molified if apple just told people to never buy firewire devices years ago and just said 'we're keeping this for legacy stuff'.

Then we'd all have known not to buy firewire 400 drives or other things.

To me, it's a bit of a slap in the face. I have a firewire 800, 400, USB external RAID backup that I use for all sorts of things. Its awesome. for kicks once, I tried using it on USB.

LOL. USB SUCKS.

I kind of wish my external raid used esata b/c it's faster than fw 800, but i figured apple wouldn't ever obsolete firewire, so i'd be ok. I even stupidly figured eventually MBs would get firewire800, so i could just keep using it.

I'd have ponied up the extra 50 or 100 bucks to get esata if i'd known they were going to stop using it.

Am I alone? Evidently not. Apple screwed the pooch and they should fix this ASAP. Preferably by adding FW800 instead of 400.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Mac Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Jobs responds to outrage over MacBook's missing FireWire