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Jobs responds to outrage over MacBook's missing FireWire - Page 6

post #201 of 1657
Firewire in not just for camcoders. Its a must have when using external HD's with laptops !!!
post #202 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

Hmm, have you looked at something like http://www.bombich.com/software/netrestore.html - just carry an Airport Extreme, hook up the machine in question to the network and install away?

Nope, I didn't try this software yet but I will give it a try. I think it will be very useful since it looks simple to use yet powerful.

Also they have: Carbon Copy Cloner that is also useful. Mike Bombich has done a great job there

Thank You Very Much!
post #203 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

Well, I have received an offer today with the 2GB RAM, 250 GB HD configuration for a total of 1450 USD (including 3 year international warranty) from my dealer. And, no matter how I look at it, it is tempting.

That's a special deal and not what it costs from Lenovo. A third party dealer could do the same thing with a Mac if they chose to.

Quote:
How I figure it kills the MacBook? Well, the primary market for a 13" device is people wanting a small (and maybe affordable) laptop, not a workstation replacement. I do need things in a small laptop that I require outdoors or at a customer's location (like UMTS if they do not allow me on their network, the ability to capture video and photos) in the smallest package possible. Based on this requirement the MacBook fails on all accounts (almost as much as the MBA)... no UMTS (and no means to add it via ExpressCard), thanks to the iPhone lockdown no tethering there either, no ports, but a stupid optical drive I have not used in a lifetime (as it is substandard anyhow). Just a lot of weight and shiny metal for big money... a price point at which you can get fully equipped 17" workstations elsewhere (a lot uglier, I know). I love OS X and I accept a certain Apple premium, I just think that this time they went far too far. And I have a certain impression that they have lost track of their line-up as well.

You've narrowed your requirements down to some very specifics that the X200 can provide. In turn down playing the advantages of the MacBook. This is called stacking the deck.

If the X200 is a better tool for your specific needs that's fine. But that does not make it an over all better machine than the MacBook.

People too often like to throw out PC's as cheaper with better specs. When you actually look at them. The reality is they have compromised somewhere the same as Apple has had to compromise somewhere with the Mac. The idea is to find the compromise that fits your need.
post #204 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by heretakis View Post

Firewire in not just for camcoders. Its a must have when using external HD's with laptops !!!

valid point...

many of them also use to utilize the port (remember there are only two USB ports) lots of mac users (us) specifically look for firewire external hard drive, so use that fire wire as well

Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

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Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

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post #205 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Speaking of...
What do you think the move to NVIDIA means for Apple's long-game? Attracting PC gamers seems pointless. I'm thinking that they have have high expectations of OpenCL being about to really boost the performance for their machines, but do you have a better idea?

PS: As much as I like the new machine method and the performance 'statements' of the NIVIDIA chips, I have doubts about both and will be waiting a couple months until I update my current Mac notebook. Mostly, I don't trust NVIDIA enough to jump into a new Mac right now.

I think that 10.6 has something to do with it. But if they are right, and Nvidia approched THEM, which seems likely, as Apple is the first to not only get this chip, but to have even SEEN it, then Apple might have said "Yum, we can use that".

Yeah, I don't trust Nvidia. The rumors that have been flying around is that they were getting out of the chipset business altogether. I guess not.

If they pull a cheapie fast one again like they did with the solder connections on ALL of the current chips (not these new ones), then that will be a problem.

This could attract PC game COMPANIES. Then the gamers will follow. After John Carmack, and others have been loudly complaining about the graphics performance for years, this will cut down on one of their complaints about Apple.

I think its a good move. It's been brought up that this could inspire Intel to increase their work on integrated graphics as well.

It did help to increase the price of the new Macbooks, though I think that a big component of that was the new cases.

Apple has been sued before over the fact that they would advertize new features on the OS, but older machines, or lower end machines couldn't utilize them, or they just ran damned slow.

This could also be an attempt to alleviate that problem when 10.6 does come out next year.
post #206 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

I thought Macs were supposed to be user-friendly. Removing Target Disk Mode de-friendly-izes them so much it makes owners obtain and use an obscure screwdriver and other geek tools.

You are making the big mistake of using reason here. Apple fanboys will justify any nonsense on Apple's behalf, even if a deaf, dumb and blind person would be able to identify them as nonsense.

People list what they need FW for (all reasonable) and get all kinds of friendly condescending bullshit: Move your FW disks into a USB case, buy a bigger Mac, buy a heavier Mac, buy a more expensive Mac, buy an old Mac, use eBay, get an engineering degree and mess with the guts of the damn thing yourself, anything and then some... barely a single person with the decency, reason and attitude to even imagine others could have a reasonable need and - HE forbid - Apple might have made a mistake. Just imagine all these great lemmings would be with Scientology... measuring the brain activity of tomatoes would be more popular than baseball.
post #207 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

DVCPRO HD from tape or p2? Because your unfairly skewing the argument under the assumption that the OP knows nothing of what you speak. Obviously taking dvcpro hd files through usb from a p2 reader is nothing to write home about, that isn't real time transfer the way you need for dv or hdv from tape. Your post is misdirection.

Its not misdirection. This argument is about transferring video over USB. I'm pointing out it is possible.

Yes transferring a digital file is not real time like running a tape. Its not real time because data transfer is much faster. But that's just an advantage of that method.
post #208 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

One can't provide confidence, but the Torx costs $4, and is available as a tip for a couple of bucks in almost any hardware store. The SATA case costs $29.95, and can be bought in a number of places.

I have to say though, that most of the time, if the disk is corrupted enough so that the machine won't boot from it or the drive won't mount, it's also too corrupted for target disk mode as well. I've tried it a number of times on people's machines, and it only worked a few times. The other times, I had to take the disk out, use equipment to do a bit by bit copy to another drive (putting the contents in a folder). Then I used software to try and extract files. Not easy, and lots of stuff gets lost forever, unless you want to spend in the high three figures, or four figures, to get it recovered.

For just transferring information, Ethernet works best, and is faster than FW 800, if you use GB Ethernet, which is pretty cheap, and common, these days.

You sure about that? On paper gigabit ethernet is faster but my experience copying large amounts of data is that they're either about the same of FW800 is faster.
post #209 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Hmmm! Interesting point.

'murch, he's got you on that one.

If you work as photographer for several Vogue magazines in the world (as I did) it's the wrong color and material. And 15" is too big.
post #210 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakboy View Post

Again, some of this shock and outrage would have been molified if apple just told people to never buy firewire devices years ago and just said 'we're keeping this for legacy stuff'.

Then we'd all have known not to buy firewire 400 drives or other things.

To me, it's a bit of a slap in the face. I have a firewire 800, 400, USB external RAID backup that I use for all sorts of things. Its awesome. for kicks once, I tried using it on USB.

LOL. USB SUCKS.

I kind of wish my external raid used esata b/c it's faster than fw 800, but i figured apple wouldn't ever obsolete firewire, so i'd be ok. I even stupidly figured eventually MBs would get firewire800, so i could just keep using it.

I'd have ponied up the extra 50 or 100 bucks to get esata if i'd known they were going to stop using it.

Am I alone? Evidently not. Apple screwed the pooch and they should fix this ASAP. Preferably by adding FW800 instead of 400.

Never, ever figure that an interface standard won't be replaced. Never, ever!

Apple pioneered SCSI for mainstream computers for many years, then they dropped it like a hot potato. You want me to tell you of the problems that ensued?

I have two FW towers, now in the Attic of Old Machinery Museum I maintain upstairs.

I don't miss them. I much prefer my E-SATA.

Goodby to FW. RIP in lower priced machines.

It will live on in the pro machines for a while yet.

But, next year comes USB 3, far superior to USB 2, and even in some respects FW.

Then also next year comes Power Over SATA and E-SATA, which kills FW cold for drives.

When those two are out, Apple should take them up, as pro equipment will.

We should start seeing them on Apple's machines next year, along with Duispay Port.

It's going to be a whole new world of connectors out there, learn to love it, we will have several years before they all change again.
post #211 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawhead View Post

BTW, I've already spoken with two of my DJ/creator pals in Tokyo, and while they are both disappointed about the lack of FW in the new MacBooks, they understand the move, are not going bonkers over it, and one is already committing to buy a new MBP, and the other is contemplating snatching up the 2.4GHz black MacBook while supplies last. Really, that is the attitude some of you need.

rawhead if Apple had left the black Macbook @ $999 I probably would have but I think I detest the white plastic Macbook more than having a alu Macbook without Firewire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Hmmm! Interesting point.

'murch, he's got you on that one.

Yeah..I realize there's no right or wrong ..it all depends on the persepective but every now and then you gotta let a little nerd rage out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtdunham View Post

does anyone remember the audience applauding at any point during the announcements? I remember several pregnant pauses, ones i thought were built-in in anticipation of an audience response, that were met with silence. I know this wasn't a mac fanboy mwsf keynote audience, but i've seen earlier press event video and the audience showed its approval at numerous points. this time, not so much...

Yes...I kind of new this was coming when Apple moved to Intel hardware. The surprise or belief that "anything can come" was gone. Everyone who follows computing closely knows Intel's roadmap and thus we already know what Apple's going to go with. Though the nvidia transition was interesting.
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post #212 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Never, ever figure that an interface standard won't be replaced. Never, ever!

Apple pioneered SCSI for mainstream computers for many years, then they dropped it like a hot potato. You want me to tell you of the problems that ensued?

I don't think they will really listen to anything you've said.

The answer will come accusing you of mindlessly going along with whatever Steve Jobs tells you.
post #213 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

What do you mean it doesn't work RELIABLY with USB? It doesn't work AT ALL.

Copy over ethernet.

Or do what I do....use a 4GB USB key.

You can use ethernet and a 4gb key to transfer files before your mac hits the OS? Amazing! Or you're yet another person that doesn't understand the advantage of target disk mode.
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post #214 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by plokoonpma View Post

Nope, I didn't try this software yet but I will give it a try. I think it will be very useful since it looks simple to use yet powerful.

Also they have: Carbon Copy Cloner that is also useful. Mike Bombich has done a great job there

Thank You Very Much!

I recommend SuperDuper over CCC. CCC sometimes has problems with Permissions amongst others, though it's generally pretty good (and cheap). But SuperDuper is more reliable.
post #215 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

You are making the big mistake of using reason here. Apple fanboys will justify any nonsense on Apple's behalf, even if a deaf, dumb and blind person would be able to identify them as nonsense.

People list what they need FW for (all reasonable) and get all kinds of friendly condescending bullshit: Move your FW disks into a USB case, buy a bigger Mac, buy a heavier Mac, buy a more expensive Mac, buy an old Mac, use eBay, get an engineering degree and mess with the guts of the damn thing yourself, anything and then some... barely a single person with the decency, reason and attitude to even imagine others could have a reasonable need and - HE forbid - Apple might have made a mistake. Just imagine all these great lemmings would be with Scientology... measuring the brain activity of tomatoes would be more popular than baseball.

Ah, they do this in the PC world as well. You can't even get FW on most PCs.

Used your parallel printer lately?
post #216 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakboy View Post

You sure about that? On paper gigabit ethernet is faster but my experience copying large amounts of data is that they're either about the same of FW800 is faster.

Not in my experience. You can connect two Macs with an Ethernet cable (buy a CAT 5e or 6), and it works quickly.
post #217 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by corinhorn View Post

All that I know for sure is I will not spend one bloody dime on an Apple notebook until FireWire is back on the MacBook. I'm not going to spend an extra $500 to get the MacBook Pro.

I've been a Mac user for 10 years, and for the first time ever I am considering buying a Dell.

Hey, think about it. That's the best way to get back at a vendor. Buy from someone else and tell them too bad you pissed me off! As I'll always say that if HP, Sony etc. are using the FW port then Apple should too. Hey HP makes several laptops in the sub $900 range, and maybe lower, that have FW. And as for target mode it's saved me many times. You can talk about USB and Intel, but Microsoft is one of the biggest fans of USB. I guess Apple is tying to act like them too. Hell Apple might as well bring the great Satan himself, Bill Gates on board so he and Steve can be buddy-buddy. Think back to the first 15" Macbook Pro. It only had one firewire port. It wasn't long until it was back. If everyone who's not happy will voice their opinion on Apple's website maybe they'll listen. Sometimes the best way to let them know is just don't buy their crap. Buy from their biggest competitor. As for me no second FW port on the MBP and none on the MB = I'm not buying their crap. Maybe Apple as seller has forgotten the big rule THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT! What the consumers want they SHOULD get, NOT rammed down their throat. The only way to make them learn we're not gonna take it any more is hit them in their wallets.
post #218 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Its not misdirection. This argument is about transferring video over USB. I'm pointing out it is possible.

Yes transferring a digital file is not real time like running a tape. Its not real time because data transfer is much faster. But that's just an advantage of that method.

Yeah that's an advantage. However most people's argument isn't about transferring video over usb, its about transferring video over usb from devices that need realtime, something that isn't possible with usb at all. Something that tons of camcorders old and new support.

I used to tell people "you should have a bought a mac, any camcorder can work with a mac" when they showed me firewire camcorders and owned pcs that didn't have them. Now it looks like the shoe is on the other foot.

Say what you want about firewire's longevity, but now was much too soon.
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post #219 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimdorr View Post

If you work as photographer for several Vogue magazines in the world (as I did) it's the wrong color and material. And 15" is too big.

Really? Welcome to the club, in the early '70's I did work for Vogue here in the states with Scavullo. Never got a cover though.
post #220 of 1657
Yeah, with all the "down with the old standards" going on, I want to ask - why is there still a frecking COMBO DRIVE in Mac Mini? I mean, ALL OF THE OPTICAL DRIVES HAVE BEEN ABLE TO WRITE DVD FOR YEARS! Yet they're okay with that as long as it fits Apple. But firewire - oh no, we gotta remove it quick.
post #221 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Ah, they do this in the PC world as well. You can't even get FW on most PCs.

Used your parallel printer lately?

Its used also in RIPS but those live long attached to PowerMacs or Mac Pros.
post #222 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I don't think they will really listen to anything you've said.

The answer will come accusing you of mindlessly going along with whatever Steve Jobs tells you.

I'm used to it.

Ducks back and all of that.
post #223 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Never, ever figure that an interface standard won't be replaced. Never, ever!

Apple pioneered SCSI for mainstream computers for many years, then they dropped it like a hot potato. You want me to tell you of the problems that ensued?

I have two FW towers, now in the Attic of Old Machinery Museum I maintain upstairs.

I don't miss them. I much prefer my E-SATA.

Goodby to FW. RIP in lower priced machines.

It will live on in the pro machines for a while yet.

But, next year comes USB 3, far superior to USB 2, and even in some respects FW.

Then also next year comes Power Over SATA and E-SATA, which kills FW cold for drives.

When those two are out, Apple should take them up, as pro equipment will.

We should start seeing them on Apple's machines next year, along with Duispay Port.

It's going to be a whole new world of connectors out there, learn to love it, we will have several years before they all change again.

Fair enough on those points, but without expresscard or esata on the macbooks apple hasn't left anyone who owns a gen 1 alu macbook with those options.

Do you really think it's fair for apple to remove it now because in a year or two other models may have those things?

if I bought a new macbook they wouldn't retrofit usb3 or esata onto it at a later date, anyone who buys now is going to be left in the cold.
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post #224 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by retroneo View Post

All you need is a simple cable

USB to Firewire

The cable you link to seems to be a product that converts DV to a USB mpeg stream -- it doesn't get raw DV into the machine. For some reason no one sells a generic USB/Firewire bridge adapter. This must be hard to do, which is surprising since other adapters exist that plug into USB and bridge to other protocols such as bluetooth, SATA/PATA, etc..
post #225 of 1657
this is worth reading if you're considering replacing a mini-DV tape, firewire camcorder with one of the newer models Mr Jobs boasts of requiring USB...

(David Pogue on mini-DV):

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/...gue.php?page=1
post #226 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by dposxfan View Post

Hey, think about it. That's the best way to get back at a vendor. Buy from someone else and tell them too bad you pissed me off! As I'll always say that if HP, Sony etc. are using the FW port then Apple should too. Hey HP makes several laptops in the sub $900 range that have FW. And as for target mode it's saved me many times. You can talk about USB and Intel, but Microsoft is the big fan of USB. I guess Apple is tying to act like them too. Hell Apple might as well bring the great Satan himself, Bill Gates on board so he and Steve can be buddy-buddy.

Actually, it was Apple that got USB up and working on the first iMacs. Before that, Microsoft and Intel couldn't get it to work reliably.

First, it was supposed to work on Windows 3.1. Then it needed PCI. But they then said that 95 would do it. But, wait, 98 was the one!

Well, AFTER Apple had it up and running just fine, and sold a lot of machines with it, iMacs and others, and after all the USB accessories in the world came out in iMac colors, MS came out with 98 part 2, and finally got it working, sort of.

I have to give credit to Apple for this, even though some here are too stuck up about these things to realize what it means.

Apple has been accused over and again through the years of not using standard interfaces, only their own special stuff.

When they do move to standard things, things that are usually better than what they had been using, the fanboy reaction is to think that its a betrayal. It's not.

Apple went to USB at first to eliminate their problematical connector, and interface for the keyboard and mouse, which could blow the machine if removed when the machine was on.

That was a very good reason. It opened up a whole world of mice, trackballs, keyboards, and everything else that uses USB, but that would never come to Apple without it.

WE benefit from this.

I do think Apple should have waited until USB 3 and Power Over E-SATA comes out next year, but Apple has a history of NOT waiting.

We all know that. So while this is a surprise in that it happened now, it shouldn't be too big of a surprise, except for those who don't keep up on the latest and greatest.
post #227 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by plokoonpma View Post

Its used also in RIPS but those live long attached to PowerMacs or Mac Pros.

Good one, but most RIPS these days also work over Ethernet.

When Apple dropped some critical parts of the SCSI spec in 10.3, my Fuji Pictography machines stopped working. I had to downgrade two Macs to 10.2.8 to get them to work again.

What did Fuji do as they couldn't get them to function? The newer machines had Ethernet.

That's the way it works.
post #228 of 1657
Folks, the problem with dropping FireWire is simple to understand. Type in "transferring files" in Help and this is what you get -- this is ALL you get (i.e. the ONLY option that Apple recommends):

Transferring files between two computers using FireWire:

You can use a FireWire cable to connect your computer to another Mac and have one of the computers appear as an external hard disk on the other computer. This is sometimes called Target Disk Mode. To transfer files using FireWire: Shut down the computer to be used as a disk. Leave the other computer on. Connect the two computers with a FireWire cable.
Start up the computer to be used as a disk, then open System Preferences, click Startup Disk, and click Target Disk Mode. (Or, start it up while holding down the T key.) A disk icon appears on the desktop of the other computer. Transfer files by dragging them to and from the disk.
Eject the disk by dragging its icon to the Trash. (While you drag, the Trash icon changes to an Eject icon.) On the computer you used as a disk, push the power button to shut it down, and then disconnect the FireWire cable. If one of the computers is running Mac OS 9, it must have FireWire version 2.3.3 or later installed. Use Apple System Profiler (in the Utilities folder of the Applications folder) to check the version of FireWire installed. If it is an older version, get an update at the Apple FireWire website.


The reason this is the only method Apple Help explains is because it's by FAR the best, simplest, most reliable and fastest way to transfer files.

All of the other methods that have been suggested in this thread are TERRIBLE compared with FireWire.

You've even got people here suggesting -- apparently without a hint of irony -- that we should all start dismantling the innards of our machines and removing the hard drives to make a simple file transfer! Talk about PC thinking! It reminds me of my Dad back in the '80s insisting on building his old 6080 (or whatever) from a Heath kit because it was a few pennies cheaper (naturally he never got the kit to actually work. Both it and he were, after all, PCs.)

That is all.
post #229 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post

Apple's thinking is and always will be slightly ahead of consumers' thinking. Sure, we hate to lose Firewire, a technology that has a cool name, great performance, and bragging rights, since Apple invented it. But if you stop and think about it... the MacBook (which no longer has Firewire) is targeted to a market that probably won't ever use Firewire. The vocal minority here are the ones that should be looking at a MacBook Pro anyway, which still has their beloved port.

(Firewire has saved my butt many times over with Target Disk Mode, but I understand that the landscape changes, and so will our products. Just look at the myriad of display/video ports we've gone through in the past few years).

wow. Shocker. Not. Jobs once again screws the pro looking for a cheap alternative. Heck even my mac genius buddies say they can't belive it. Give you a machine that plays games and motion. But you can't use it for pro audio nor video. WIW JOBS DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS? A real shocker. What he wants is for you to buy the pro and all glossy I might add. LONG LIVE EFI-X.
post #230 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I recommend SuperDuper over CCC. CCC sometimes has problems with Permissions amongst others, though it's generally pretty good (and cheap). But SuperDuper is more reliable.

Well, this used to be true - since CCC is at 3.1 I never had these problems again. Unfortunately now it has a nasty bug with scheduled tasks - if the external drive is not available at backup time, it creates a folder with the same name under /Volumes and fills your disk neatly.
post #231 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

Fair enough on those points, but without expresscard or esata on the macbooks apple hasn't left anyone who owns a gen 1 alu macbook with those options.

Do you really think it's fair for apple to remove it now because in a year or two other models may have those things?

if I bought a new macbook they wouldn't retrofit usb3 or esata onto it at a later date, anyone who buys now is going to be left in the cold.

I did say here twice, and in another forum the other day, that I'm disappointed they removed it now.

I agree that they've been hasty. I don't agree with what a couple of people have said about them wanting to force people to buy MBPs.

Most people will simply keep their machines longer.

But within a year, all things will change. I'm hoping that Apple will jump upon the new interfaces as soon as possible, as they have with Display Port (just as prices for the chips have come down).

Lets face it, most drives are available with E-SATA. For the desktop, external power is fine, just as it is for FW towers. For portable use, it's a bitch right now, but not for sometime next year.

For Camcorders, it;s true that mosr newer ones use USB 2. I've been checking this out. Others are using disks, cards.

FW IS becoming less important there. With Apple moving away from FW, I'm willing to bet that more camera manufacturers will as well. As far as digital still photography is concerned, USB 2 is pretty much it.

I do have a FW 800 SanDisk reader, and some UDMA 6 cards, which is much faster than USB 2. But if you're a pro, you're most likely to go MBP anyway, and the FW reader over 400 is not better than a fast reader over USB 2. I've tested it, as have others.

There is less reason for FW every day. I would imagine that Apple is pushing the limits as they have done so many times in the past.

In the end, they've been proven correct.
post #232 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanPhantom View Post

Why that is the most idiotic statement yet. Why is everyone so up in arms about this decision that Apple has made about this? Most of the people who buy these entry level "Consumer" grade computers don't need firewire. If you are one of those people who need it, cough up the extra money and get a MacBook Pro. Otherwise, I'm SURE there will be a market that opens up for PCI Express cards JUST for the macbooks to allow for the firewire.

Keep in mind, Apple caters to the majority, if you are a hardcore Music maker or a videophile, get a refurbished macbook or upgrade and get the MacBook macdaddy Pro.

If you are still pissed enough to ditch your mac and go get a DELL, well have a nice day. That grass is definitely NOT greener, as a matter of fact, it's a yard full of rocks and crab grass.

LanPhantom

To my knowledge, Dell doesn't sell a 13" notebook with FW. Neither does HP for that matter. Yeah, that guy is screwed. I suppose there's always Acer.

When I have to help someone that ultimately lambasts my company and threatens to go to a rival, they're either lying (and we continually have to deal with them) or we don't want their business anyway (and we can turn our attention to the other 99.9999% of our customers that are happy with how we run our business instead).
When a company stops chasing profit and start chasing the betterment of their products, services, workforce, and customers, that will be the most valuable company in the world.
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When a company stops chasing profit and start chasing the betterment of their products, services, workforce, and customers, that will be the most valuable company in the world.
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post #233 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by iedsri View Post

Folks, the problem with dropping FireWire is simple to understand. Type in "transferring files" in Help and this is what you get -- this is ALL you get (i.e. the ONLY option that Apple recommends):

Transferring files between two computers using FireWire:

You can use a FireWire cable to connect your computer to another Mac and have one of the computers appear as an external hard disk on the other computer. This is sometimes called Target Disk Mode. To transfer files using FireWire: Shut down the computer to be used as a disk. Leave the other computer on. Connect the two computers with a FireWire cable.
Start up the computer to be used as a disk, then open System Preferences, click Startup Disk, and click Target Disk Mode. (Or, start it up while holding down the T key.) A disk icon appears on the desktop of the other computer. Transfer files by dragging them to and from the disk.
Eject the disk by dragging its icon to the Trash. (While you drag, the Trash icon changes to an Eject icon.) On the computer you used as a disk, push the power button to shut it down, and then disconnect the FireWire cable. If one of the computers is running Mac OS 9, it must have FireWire version 2.3.3 or later installed. Use Apple System Profiler (in the Utilities folder of the Applications folder) to check the version of FireWire installed. If it is an older version, get an update at the Apple FireWire website.


The reason this is the only method Apple Help explains is because it's by FAR the best, simplest, most reliable and fastest way to transfer files.

All of the other methods that have been suggested in this thread are TERRIBLE compared with FireWire.

You've even got people here suggesting -- apparently without a hint of irony -- that we should all start dismantling the innards of our machines and removing the hard drives to make a simple file transfer! Talk about PC thinking! It reminds me of my Dad back in the '80s insisting on building his old 6080 (or whatever) from a Heath kit because it was a few pennies cheaper (naturally he never got the kit to actually work. Both it and he were, after all, PCs.)

That is all.

You're wrong, and you're not reading what we've been saying.

Ethernet works very well, and is very easy. I do this all the time. I just did it again when I bought my wife and daughter their new 24" iMacs. And this was from old G4 towers.

The only time you need to take the drive out is when it's in poor shape, when transfer won't work anyway.
post #234 of 1657
YOU DO NOT GET IT.

Firewire is needed on ALL Macs for repairs and troubleshooting via Target Disk Mode. That simple. And it costs a mere 25 cents to implement as many Firewire ports as you want on a machine.

Therefore the excuse of price is not valid. The excuse of space on the Mac Book Air (which is expensive) does not stand either, since tiny and cheap devices like the Kanguru Fire Flash (pen drive) have a Firewire connection:

http://www.kanguru.com/fireflash.html

THERE IS ONLY ONE ANSWER TO THIS ABUSE: stop buying ANY Apple product. Then and only then they will place Firewire on the MacBook and on the MacBook Air (which our University wanted to purchase when and only when has Firewire for repairs and troubleshooting).

Do not get me wrong. I am a Mac evangelist and have been for almost 20 years now. But this serious error-flaw must be fixed ASAP!
post #235 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Ah, they do this in the PC world as well. You can't even get FW on most PCs.

Used your parallel printer lately?

Actually I can install FW on almost any PC in existence (slot, PCMCIA or ExpressCard), Sony has FW on quite a few (most?) of their machines. If I want to add anything to any Apple device fun starts at 2k.

Your impression about PC users is a bit flawed - they do often have wrong ideas and little knowledge about Apple and OS X, but they are quite critical with MS and very demanding with the hardware makers, they just lack taste though - at least I do not know many PC users that would pay half the prices for some of the articles in the Apple ecosystem. 100 USD to connect an Apple display to an Apple laptop? It requires qualified maniacs to swallow that.

I have no more parallel printers, but still proudly own an Okidata needle printer (serial) that I need for a program I have written in 1987 (the great days when 640KB were enough for everything).
post #236 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

Well, this used to be true - since CCC is at 3.1 I never had these problems again. Unfortunately now it has a nasty bug with scheduled tasks - if the external drive is not available at backup time, it creates a folder with the same name under /Volumes and fills your disk neatly.

What I've found with CCC is that it's just not reliable when copying a startup drive. I wouldn't use it. There always eeems to be some problem that can result in a corrupt drive. Copying secondary drives seems to be fine. But then, what's the point?

SuperDuper is just safer. It's never had any of these problems.
post #237 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

YOU DO NOT GET IT.

Firewire is needed on ALL Macs for repairs and troubleshooting via Target Disk Mode. That simple. And it costs a mere 25 cents to implement as many Firewire ports as you want on a machine.

Therefore the excuse of price is not valid. The excuse of space on the Mac Book Air (which is expensive) does not stand either, since tiny and cheap devices like the Kanguru Fire Flash (pen drive) have a Firewire connection:

http://www.kanguru.com/fireflash.html

THERE IS ONLY ONE ANSWER TO THIS ABUSE: stop buying ANY Apple product. Then and only then they will place Firewire on the MacBook and on the MacBook Air (which our University wanted to purchase when and only when has Firewire for repairs and troubleshooting).

Do not get me wrong. I am a Mac evangelist and have been for almost 20 years now. But this serious error-flaw must be fixed ASAP!

That's ridiculous. I suppose the other 96% of the worlds computers can't be repaired because they don't have FW disk transfer?
post #238 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

Actually I can install FW on almost any PC in existence (slot, PCMCIA or ExpressCard), Sony has FW on quite a few (most?) of their machines. If I want to add anything to any Apple device fun starts at 2k.

Your impression about PC users is a bit flawed - they do often have wrong ideas and little knowledge about Apple and OS X, but they are quite critical with MS and very demanding with the hardware makers, they just lack taste though - at least I do not know many PC users that would pay half the prices for some of the articles in the Apple ecosystem. 100 USD to connect an Apple display to an Apple laptop? It requires qualified maniacs to swallow that.

I have no more parallel printers, but still proudly own an Okidata needle printer (serial) that I need for a program I have written in 1987 (the great days when 640KB were enough for everything).

Quite a few PC laptops don't have any media slot that can be used for FW. Some do. More and more lower cost PCs can't be upgraded any more than most of Apple's.

Things are moving in this direction.

I would love to see Apple make a less expensive upgradable machine, but that's not their thing. So be it.

FW is dying. That's the way it is.
post #239 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's ridiculous. I suppose the other 96% of the worlds computers can't be repaired because they don't have FW disk transfer?

Again, you do not get it. Without Target Disk Mode you cannot repair. Full stop. Or else open the case, place the disk elsewhere for Target Disk Mode, waste your time, break something and increase repair costs. How can people be so BLIND!!!??? It just costs 20 cents to implement Firewire!

APPLE: NO FIREWIRE, NO PURCHASE. The decision is yours.
post #240 of 1657
Maybe the real issue here is about Apple's insistence that it knows what's best for it's consumers. I guess what gets me is the fact that they could offer more options. People here keep saying, "Well, if you want a pro machine, then get a MBP!" That's not the point. The point is that a lot of people want more options. I want a 13inch laptop with a dedicated video card with HDMI or Display Port out? Why? Because there's proof that Intel's integrated solutions don't adequately fun Hi-Def video or games. Even if the new Nvidia integrated GPU is more powerful than Intel's solutions, it's still not as powerful as a dedicated 256mb or 512mb video card. That was proven on the Spore videos on Gizmodo's website. (it may be even more relevant once the external Blu-Ray drives become available)

People here want a smaller laptop to carry around...and even if the current 15inch MBP fits in a MB bag, there's still the fact that the MB has a smaller footprint and weighs less than the MBP. But, Apple has dictated that the smaller laptop is only for consumers interested in making documents and surfing the internet. Would it really kill them to produce a "Pro" model with a 13inch screen and a dedicated GPU? Not really. Hell, they could charge a premium for it and the people that want it would pay it. There's also the "buy an Air" crowd, but that still doesn't erase the fact that the Air is a neutered laptop. Yeah, it's sexy, but it's for a totally different purpose than the MB or the MBP.

On the other side, I'd like a 15inch Macbook. Something with a big screen without the Pro features I'll never use. Hell, you can get a Lenovo Ideabook with a 15inch screen and DDR3 graphics for just over a grand. No, it doesn't have an all aluminum enclosure, but then, I don't pick my laptop up by the corner and wiggle it so see if it actually flexes. (though I don't understand why they put a 1280X800 screen in it...)

See the point? It's about options. Maybe Apple doesn't provide as many as the big boys because it's more worried about the bottom line still. Once it gets more market share then maybe it'll start worrying about options and catering to a larger crowd of consumers. I'm on the fence. The quality of the new machines is spectacular, but I'd still like more options.
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