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Jobs responds to outrage over MacBook's missing FireWire - Page 8

post #281 of 1657
"Actually, all of the new HD camcorders of the past few years use USB 2,"

Unfortunately your Steveness forgot one small detail.

May I refresh your obvious memory loss?
Until the release of iMovie 08 and an FCP6 it was NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE to edit material from these AVCHD camcorders - at least not on a Mac with Mac software (you could do it on a PC though!)...
And that was how long ago? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that long overdue AVCHD update for FCP came finally around June 07 and iMovie 08 in August 07.
You call this a few years?!?!

Get this straight: Most Mac users were practically FORCED by Apple's LACK OF AVCHD SUPPORT to buy a HDV camcorder with FW instead!

Thank you for screwing us all over again!
But guess what. You can keep that useless piece of gorgeous looking switcher crap and choke on it!

Although it's really sad, because with FW800 the new Macbook could have been the perfect notebook I have been waiting for years.
Without FW the frickin' thing is just playing in the Acer league.

A brick indeed...

post #282 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

How the FW suddenly became a pro feature when it was universal?

It is becoming rarified - and appropriate to pro use. Face it.

And as for my objection to personal brickbats being thrown at Jobs, read this from an interview with him by Betsy Morris:

"We've got 25,000 people at Apple. About 10,000 of them are in the stores. And my job is to work with sort of the top 100 people, that's what I do. That doesn't mean they're all vice presidents. Some of them are just key individual contributors. So when a good idea comes, you know, part of my job is to move it around, just see what different people think, get people talking about it, argue with people about it, get ideas moving among that group of 100 people, get different people together to explore different aspects of it quietly, and, you know - just explore things."

Clearly, if you believe posters to this forum, they are all stupid and know nothing.

Time will indeed tell.
post #283 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon T View Post

It is becoming rarified - and appropriate to pro use. Face it.

Rarified and phased out, yes, I can take that. But suddenly pro feature (when it was not) for which you have to pay a heavy premium , no, it is unacceptable.
post #284 of 1657
Seems to me that a significant number of Apple buyers are the kind of people who find it more comfortable to follow a dictator and justify his actions instead of using their own brain.

That's not meant to be rude, it's just what happens in this thread.

And:

No, I would have the money to buy the Pro version

yes, I'm dependend on FW and matte displays
post #285 of 1657
Mr. jobs needs to go home.
What a condescending a~*hole he has become...
post #286 of 1657
yeah, sad but true. Too much success in a short period of time seems to destroy certain brain cells in the heads of the affected people
post #287 of 1657
geez, well since you guys are VERY UNHAPPY with this, have you all sent your feedback form to Apple yet? Cause if you don't then what you guys are whining here is useless. And like some other people say, not happy with the new MB or MBP? Wait for the next revision, Im hinting next year MW.
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post #288 of 1657
I have just one question for STEVE :

Let's agree with you, OK, True, Firewire is not important anymore...

Then, STEVE, why do you keep a FireWire port on the new MacBook Pro?... why didn't you tossed out this one too?

Why do you keep an outdated port on the MacBook Pro (like the FireWire as you said) and don't provide a faster eSata either?
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post #289 of 1657
I guess the FW port on the MBP couldn't be left out because there was not enough space left to leave it out!!

Right, if you dump an outdated standard...provide us with the new standard. I mean...when DVI was left out we luckily got a display port as a replacement....
post #290 of 1657
Steve has too much disposable income. Methinks he's out of touch with the typical consumer, who isn't able to replace his entire technology layer for the privilege of owning the latest Mac computer. Dang it, I need to continue to use the cameras, hard drives, and A/D converters I already own. No, I'm not a video professional. No, I can't afford to move up the product line. The net effect is that I've just become a long-time Apple user who can no longer afford Apple hardware.



This ethos trickles down to the Apple sales force in higher ed. Instead of building a Windows GUI client for Podcast Producer (housed in OS X Server), they suggest that we replace our Windows computers with Macs. Seriously? That's seriously their answer. So, now they're not going to be selling any Xserves to my institution, because the prevailing attitude around here is that everything Apple does has an Apple Tax associated with it. Instead of offering a $6000 entry point into Podcast Producer, we're faced with something well north of that. Crazy. And though I'm an ardent supporter of their core technology, there is no bloody way I can legitimately support that kind of closed system thinking. The entire corporate computing infrastructure is moving towards open systems; Apple once again trails there. Their only saving grace is, as one of my colleagues wryly noted, "at least we can install linux on that XServe if this doesn't pan out". Without support in the Windows client, that just may be the only thing it's good for.
I got nothin'.
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I got nothin'.
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post #291 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

So if you want professional port for professional job you want a professional macbook. The Macbook Pro.

So what is the big deal?

The big deal is that I am a home user with an older miniDV camera that only has FireWire. I also have a few hard drives and an external DVD burner that I bought with FireWire because of the perceived benefits. These components have a very long use life. I take care of my stuff and it keeps working. No need to buy more.

Apple just told me to buy not only a new, spiffy laptop, but also replace all my perfectly good FireWire peripherals. I take that as a slap in the face for supporting a port that Apple has been pushing for a long time.

I guess one silver lining is that this move will keep the resale value of existing MacBooks higher.

- Jasen.
post #292 of 1657
vista = virus inside switch to apple
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vista = virus inside switch to apple
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post #293 of 1657
I don't like Steve Ballmer, but this time he was right - leaving out features like FW and Blue-Ray is simply a way to get a higher margins. And support mainly consists of "better buy a new machine". Thank you.

Maybe at Apple they got scared that every John Doe would soon own a Mac so they had to raise the "Apple Tax". Seems to be only the chosen few 5% of the worlds' notebook users should be intitled to own a Mac to keep it exclusive to users and not too tempting for developers of adware and viruses...
post #294 of 1657
Quote:

That's the way, and don't forget to encourage people to send feedback form to Apple :thumbsup:
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post #295 of 1657
Hi,

From some of the comments here, it sounds like Jobs himself showed up and brutally ripped the FW port out of people's macbooks.

Thats not the case. I think it's very reasonable for Apple change new products to reflect evolution of technical standards.

/Daniel

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post #296 of 1657
can you just use one of these connectors?


http://www.firewiretousb.com/?gclid=...FQOuFQodJWoyMA

http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-Cable-To-IEE...:B:SRCH:US:101



seems simple and cheap enough if these work.



Juan
post #297 of 1657
http://www.adobe.com/products/creati...on/systemreqs/

Quote:
OHCI-compatible IEEE 1394 port for DV and HDV capture, export to tape, and transmit to DV device

Adobe's CS4 requirements list the presence of Firewire as a requirement on the PC side while it isn't listed on the Mac side since every recent Mac up to now except the Air has had Firewire. I guess they'll have to add a Firewire requirement for the Mac side as well. It's ironic that this MacBook refresh added better IGPs to better target the requirements for applications like Adobe CS4 with hardware acceleration, but ends up being deficient in other areas.
post #298 of 1657
all current models...

http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/ultralite-mk3

http://www.rolandus.com/products/pro...x?ObjectId=731

http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/traveler

there goes my idea of upgrading my portable 12" PB audio recoding editing suite...


Apple, you've lost the plot. And many sales.


Form over function twits!



(and only TWO usb ports? are you joking?!... you're takin the piss big time.)
post #299 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalMacRat View Post

Apple is already going to Windows.

Has anybody realize that with DisplayPort you can connect either the MacBook, MacBook Air also MacBook Pro to a 30" Cinema Display.

MacBook got back-lit keyboard!

You got a Glass-Display with LED well as a Glass-Touchpad with gestures!

on New Aluminum MacBooks you got more features then the last MacBook, I would traded Firewire to do the above.
post #300 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcommander.data View Post

http://www.adobe.com/products/creati...on/systemreqs/


Adobe's CS4 requirements list the presence of Firewire as a requirement on the PC side while it isn't listed on the Mac side since every recent Mac up to now except the Air has had Firewire. I guess they'll have to add a Firewire requirement for the Mac side as well. It's ironic that this MacBook refresh added better IGPs to better target the requirements for applications like Adobe CS4 with hardware acceleration, but ends up being deficient in other areas.

Then buy a MacBook Pro what idiot would run a high end audio/video editing with a MacBook? That's why they made a MacBook Pro line to begin with!
post #301 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcommander.data View Post

http://www.adobe.com/products/creati...on/systemreqs/


Adobe's CS4 requirements list the presence of Firewire as a requirement on the PC side while it isn't listed on the Mac side since every recent Mac up to now except the Air has had Firewire. I guess they'll have to add a Firewire requirement for the Mac side as well. It's ironic that this MacBook refresh added better IGPs to better target the requirements for applications like Adobe CS4 with hardware acceleration, but ends up being deficient in other areas.

Is this True?

CS4 is of interest only to professional PC users then?

Apple answered the many criticisms of poor video performance in the MB and therefore had to find a new reason to (censored). Voila - Firewire is only for professional use? \

Apple still employs Firewire and to my knowledge, has not said that it won't in future. Therefore, statements to the effect that 'the writing was on the wall' are really saying that 'the graffiti was on the bus shelter'.
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post #302 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon T View Post

Remember the iMovie 08? What outrage there was. Again, my guess is there are lots of "video producers" here today who were on their high horses then.

Yes. And in response to that outcry, Apple made iMovie HD available for download. And I did. And I did at my church that uses iMovie to record sermons, because iMovie 08 is crippled compared to iMovie HD.

I'll agree that the percent of people who use FireWire may be small. But for many of them it is very important for what they use their Macs for. FW400 is a superior connection to USB 2 for many uses. Apple has always been viewed - IMHO - as the company who does things better. USB 2 is not better than FW400. Dropping it was a mistake.

- Jasen.
post #303 of 1657
Uh..ah...ok...so you're not allowed to run a imaging software on a Macbook, right? I can tell you want kind of idiot would install Photoshop on a Macbook. It's all the idiots who don't want to lug around 2,5 Kg all day when they're out shooting, wether as a hobby or professionally.

I could ask you something: What idiot would buy a 1299+ notebook only to surf the web or do some video chats with friends?
post #304 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauner View Post

I don't like Steve Ballmer, but this time he was right - leaving out features like FW and Blue-Ray is simply a way to get a higher margins. And support mainly consists of "better buy a new machine". Thank you.

Maybe at Apple they got scared that every John Doe would soon own a Mac so they had to raise the "Apple Tax". Seems to be only the chosen few 5% of the worlds' notebook users should be intitled to own a Mac to keep it exclusive to users and not too tempting for developers of adware and viruses...



Think about it what computer software is actually using Blu-ray for applications other the PS3 games? What Blu-Ray being used as now PS3 games and Blu-Ray movies. basically Blu-ray is nothing more than a bigger useless version of UMD. Why would you spend $500 plus dollars to to burn a 50GB disc that takes 2 hours plus where you can buy a external hard drive for less to copy and backup. Blu-Ray is nowhere taking off like DVD did. I seriously doubt that you see HP putting restore disc on a 25GB or even a 50GB Blu-ray Disc. I doubt Adobe will start selling Adobe CS 4.0 on 25GB Blu-Ray Disc. Optical disc format actually is dying due to download content from broadband. I'm personally thinking of selling ALL 69 of my Blu-Ray movies because I got more Movies, TV Shows (some HD) on iTunes then Blu-Ray.. I really don't see a long life with Blu-Ray but I can help to think studios might start selling or loading 1080p HD with HD Audio on hard drives or start a store or maybe vending machine where its like Red Box where instead you bring your own storage medium to load movies in choice of SD HD and take it home and play it on whatever!
post #305 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

What exactly is this crowd? Expresscard is a fixture on %80 of the PC laptops out there. It is the key to expansion that replaced Cardbus (PCMCIA)

Give me some examples of what the average pc user (I'm not talking about a Pro user) would use an ExpressCard slot for. The only one I know of is for Wifi and the Macbooks have that built-in.
post #306 of 1657
I use an expresscard sd-hc card reader...as Apple still denies to include a card reader. And...woohooo guess where I put my simcard for UMTS when I'm on the road?
post #307 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

Is this True?

CS4 is of interest only to professional PC users then?

Well, I am editor, I do photoworks for my magazine, and sometimes desktop publishing too, I have never touched any Adobe tools. For photo I use Gimp, for D.P. I use Scribus, they are 100 % free, no requirements whatsoever, and they work wonderfully well. Now, you have XaraLX that is way way faster than Illustrator, and Inkscape for those who are less demanding. Then, for any web design, I use Bluefish.
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post #308 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

I have certainly not looked at all models (I have not looked at vendors I would never buy from and that includes Dell, HP and Toshiba), so this could be right. But among the ones I have looked at in the 1200-1600 USD range (which I do not really consider low cost) I did not see a single one (other than really expensive sub-notebooks below 12") missing that feature.

And seeing that others can add a slew of useful features (and obviously some doubtful ones) to 12" devices being lighter and smaller than the MacBook (like in the mentioned Lenovo X200) or even smoke the MBP in connectivity and performance (like the W500) and still maintain the highest level of support almost all around the world and make profits, while Apple has to screw us on every single accessory and cannot even match that service outside the US... was quite an eye opener. In this regard I was quite happy about the keynote. A company that is arrogant and off-ground enough to invite the press to present nothing else than an improved manufacturing process (that did not even result in more competitive pricing), less features on every single item (except for the MBA which had none to start with) and a glossy 24" display that will not work with any existing Apple computer, is not the company that was leading the computer business with innovations for some years. All they have presented was "less for more".

Perhaps you should take a few minutes and spec out the Lenovos you are so proudly supporting. And please attempt to do a true comparison, though impossible, at least get it close. In particular, see the cost jump when you upgrade the drive from 60Gb and Vista (for what it is worth) By the way, it doesn't have FireWire.
post #309 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by themoonisdown09 View Post

Give me some examples of what the average pc user (I'm not talking about a Pro user) would use an ExpressCard slot for. The only one I know of is for Wifi and the Macbooks have that built-in.

3G+ Internet connexion?
Predictions are perilous, especially about future. Niels Bohr
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post #310 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post

Yes. And in response to that outcry, Apple made iMovie HD available for download. And I did. And I did at my church that uses iMovie to record sermons, because iMovie 08 is crippled compared to iMovie HD.

I'll agree that the percent of people who use FireWire may be small. But for many of them it is very important for what they use their Macs for. FW400 is a superior connection to USB 2 for many uses. Apple has always been viewed - IMHO - as the company who does things better. USB 2 is not better than FW400. Dropping it was a mistake.

- Jasen.

OK standards are always evolving to a new standard. Firewire is 400-Mbps USB 2.0 is 480-Mbps majority in the industry been using USB 2.0 soon there will be USB 3.0 with speeds of 4.8 Gbit/s (600 MB/s). By then what? You go with USB 3.0 or firewire. I really can get over that everybody actlike that Apple just cut firewire off when its still on the MacBook Pro. my answer go with the MacBook Pro. I really and I mean really support Apple in its decision. Really why would you make EVERYBODY pay for something that they not going to use. That's really not fair. I see everybody gripping and crying like school girls when they can go to the MacBook Pro. question how many HP notebook now are using Firewire?
post #311 of 1657
Let me see if I have this right.
Everybody wants the features of the mbpro to be in the mb?
And the mb is not useful if it doesn't have the features of the mbpro?

Oh paaaleeeese.
Cry me a river.

Go bltch and moan somewhere else, either buy a pc laptop or a mbpro and quit it with the crocadile tears.
It's annoying to see a bunch a sissies claiming to be fans of the mb.
post #312 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by themoonisdown09 View Post

Give me some examples of what the average pc user (I'm not talking about a Pro user) would use an ExpressCard slot for. The only one I know of is for Wifi and the Macbooks have that built-in.

http://www.google.com/search?q=firewire%20expresscard
Mac user since August 1983.
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Mac user since August 1983.
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post #313 of 1657
I've been a Mac consultant for 20 years. Most people with MacBook Pros don't need FireWire. Most people with iMacs don't need FireWire. What percentage of people really use the monitor port on their laptop, much less on an iMac? However, when someone needs a FireWire port or a monitor port, they REALLY need it. And that's one reason they pay a premium for a Mac. Apple's partner Apogee doesn't make a USB interface. Why is that? Because FireWire is better for that application. What is the main feature of the new and improved Drobo? FireWire. And now Apple says, "you don't get to do that cool stuff on our reasonably (?) priced laptop now, even though it's our most powerful MacBook ever!" FireWire across the Mac product line was part of the Mac's elegance. Apple has simply taken away a very useful feature that many of their users rely on. I'm still amazed that a $1599 MacBook is no longer suitable for the work I do! I don't want a bigger heavier MacBook Pro just to get a FireWire port. Oh well.
post #314 of 1657
so far the macbook had that feature
post #315 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by LE Studios View Post

My answer go with the MacBook Pro.

IMHO, there is no MacBook Pro anymore. Don't be fooled by the "Pro" or you're striding into a marketing pitfall. The 15" MacBookPro is the 13" MacBook with 2" more space, in which Apple crammed a FireWire port, an ExpressCard and a supplemental nVidia GPU. Period.
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post #316 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by abernathy View Post

I've been a Mac consultant for 20 years. Most people with MacBook Pros don't need FireWire. Most people with iMacs don't need FireWire. What percentage of people really use the monitor port on their laptop, much less on an iMac? However, when someone needs a FireWire port or a monitor port, they REALLY need it. And that's one reason they pay a premium for a Mac. Apple's partner Apogee doesn't make a USB interface. Why is that? Because FireWire is better for that application. What is the main feature of the new and improved Drobo? FireWire. And now Apple says, "you don't get to do that cool stuff on our reasonably (?) priced laptop now, even though it's our most powerful MacBook ever!" FireWire across the Mac product line was part of the Mac's elegance. Apple has simply taken away a very useful feature that many of their users rely on. I'm still amazed that a $1599 MacBook is no longer suitable for the work I do! I don't want a bigger heavier MacBook Pro just to get a FireWire port. Oh well.



THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT COMMENT. No further words needed.
post #317 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilottage View Post

I have just one question for STEVE :

Let's agree with you, OK, True, Firewire is not important anymore...

Then, STEVE, why do you keep a FireWire port on the new MacBook Pro?... why didn't you tossed out this one too?

Why do you keep an outdated port on the MacBook Pro (like the FireWire as you said) and don't provide a faster eSata either?

Dude things changes! Remeber Apple Display Connector? ATA/66, ATA/100, SCSI, Ultra SCSI, DVI, HDMI, USB 1.0, Firewire 400? You got new standards coming in! USB 3.0 with speeds of 4.8 Gbit/s (600 MB/s)!
post #318 of 1657
If you need a FireWire 400 port or connection - simply buy an adapter ($9.00) and get to work

You can go here;
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/Othe...ng/1394B6912C/

and purchase, or one of many other places - bottom line - if you need FW400, you can EASILY get it on the new MB/MB Pro's

Mister Ejag
post #319 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauner View Post

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT COMMENT. No further words needed.


You guys truly weak minded bombastic simpletons! Freedom of choice buy a MacBook or buy a MacBook Pro with firewire!
post #320 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by abernathy View Post

I've been a Mac consultant for 20 years. Most people with MacBook Pros don't need FireWire. Most people with iMacs don't need FireWire. What percentage of people really use the monitor port on their laptop, much less on an iMac? However, when someone needs a FireWire port or a monitor port, they REALLY need it. And that's one reason they pay a premium for a Mac. Apple's partner Apogee doesn't make a USB interface. Why is that? Because FireWire is better for that application. What is the main feature of the new and improved Drobo? FireWire. And now Apple says, "you don't get to do that cool stuff on our reasonably (?) priced laptop now, even though it's our most powerful MacBook ever!" FireWire across the Mac product line was part of the Mac's elegance. Apple has simply taken away a very useful feature that many of their users rely on. I'm still amazed that a $1599 MacBook is no longer suitable for the work I do! I don't want a bigger heavier MacBook Pro just to get a FireWire port. Oh well.

Your wrong? Things change either deal with the change or move on.
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