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Jobs responds to outrage over MacBook's missing FireWire - Page 11

post #401 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Using an Ars forum post as 'proof' is as valid as writing a Wikipedia page about yourself and using that as proof you are popular.

What rationale do you have that a multi-billion dollar, highly profitable company does no market research when designing new products? Does Apple really seem like a willy-nilly company to you?

But those are quotes I've seen Steve Jobs say. I think the most relevant quote saying that he doesn't like focus groups comes from the D5 conference when he was on stage with Bill Gates. Not that I'm saying focus groups are the sole market research, but if they do it, whatever they do is quite unconventional in how it is performed and used.
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post #402 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post

Target FireWire mode was the de facto and superior way to do troubleshooting or repairs on a drive, along with the quickest & most seamless way to do Migration Assistant.

I haven't seen this reported online yet, but Apple just put out the software update Migration and DVD/CD Sharing Update. It says "It provides enhanced customization capabilities and improved performance for migration over FireWire, Ethernet and wireless networks."

Apple obviously knows that people need to do migration without firewire and it looks like they are taking steps to make sure that works.
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post #403 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Using an Ars forum post as 'proof' is as valid as writing a Wikipedia page about yourself and using that as proof you are popular.

What rationale do you have that a multi-billion dollar, highly profitable company does no market research when designing new products? Does Apple really seem like a willy-nilly company to you?

That Steve Jobs said it in a 2003 interview with Forbes magazine and that it is corroborated by people who have worked at and with Apple.

What evidence do you have that they do market research? The burden of proof is on you not me.
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post #404 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawhead View Post

Real pros need to get the bestest and the fastest; i.e., MacBook Pros and FW800 so there's not a problem.

If you're not a real pro, OR, are a pro but are willing to sacrifice horse power (CPU/GPU), expandability (CardBus), faster throughput (FW800), screen size and res, etc. for the smaller footprint of a Macbook, THEN you can grab a previous gen 2.4GHz MacBook refurb for $1050 at store.apple.com. Mind you, this was the TOP OF THE LINE Macbook till 48 hours ago.

By the time that machine is obsolete--say 2-3 years from now--the aluminum Macbooks will have USB3, or maybe even FW800.


So really, I don't know what all the effing bitching is about here.


Whining because you can't have the latest and the coolest without having to sacrifice FW400? Tough luck. Call the whaaaaambulance. And here's the world's tiniest violin playing a song just for you (T_T)/\\

We like the new casing and over all features. If the MB simply had FW life would be grand. Before you say "get a MBP then!". I already have a Mac Pro for power usage. Some of us were hoping for a decent priced MB. I guess we just assumed FW wouldn't be missing.

This may be the latest, but it just missed the mark from greatest.
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post #405 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Jobs is such a liar and a charlatan. Yeah he's rich but he's the same egotistical "form over function" dictator he was before.

The alu Macbook is a closed device that offers less functionality than its predecessor. That's not progress.

At a much higher price too. The previous generation was 400mhz faster at $1299 with basically the same specs. Apple has basically made the entire line $3-400 more expensive. Let us be clear here, the consumer Macbook line more or less died on tuesday and we got a long awaited replacement for the 12" Powerbook in its place.
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post #406 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Several points that I think need to be made.

1) Several posters have said that Apple have done market research and decided that most users don't use FW. This MAY be true but Apple have NOT and do not do market research. See link here. Frankly I suspect the use of FW devices, among Mac users, is higher than we think here.

Apple doesn't conduct market research to determine what people want as he said, i.e., "So you can't go out and ask people, you know, what the next big [thing.] There's a great quote by Henry Ford, right? He said, 'If I'd have asked my customers what they wanted, they would have told me "A faster horse."

However, Apple does buy all the IMS/AC Neilsen type data re unit/$ sales/market share and intent to purchase data. This is evidenced by what Jobs and top management have said, presented or posted in their keynotes. quarterly reports, financial conferences and annual meetings, as well as printed in the quarterly & annual reports,

Apple is obviously well aware of what is occurring in the market place. Particularly when they created the market.

Great read. FORTUNE: Steve Jobs Speaks Out.

On managing through the economic downturn
"We've had one of these before, when the dot-com bubble burst. What I told our company was that we were just going to invest our way through the downturn, that we weren't going to lay off people, that we'd taken a tremendous amount of effort to get them into Apple in the first place -- the last thing we were going to do is lay them off. And we were going to keep funding. In fact we were going to up our R&D budget so that we would be ahead of our competitors when the downturn was over. And that's exactly what we did. And it worked. And that's exactly what we'll do this time."

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/...une/index.html
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post #407 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Frankly I suspect the use of FW devices, among Mac users, is higher than we think here.

And we're at an impasse here, because I suspect exactly the opposite. Most Mac users are just like most computer users in general: they're not "pro"s, they're not power users, they don't follow technology or rumors of upcoming products. They surf the web, send emails, and organize their pictures and music. And that's it.

It would shock me if even 5% of Macbooks sold have ever had a Firewire device plugged into them.
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post #408 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peruchito View Post

ah... if you need firewire.. and its part of your profession, or even if it isn't but you take your work serious, then get the serious version of the laptop. get a macbook pro. it has firewire.

but all that aside, i do sympathize. i for one want am like you. i can't stand when apple assume that things have become old technology. i hope that we can all support each other in the push against apple doing these sort of things. and help us bring back firewire, and VGA output,... and scsi, and serial ports for printers, and floppies. i miss the 5.25 floppies. you know? sometimes i only need to save 516k of data /sarcasm

Sorry, but your flippant argument doesn't seem to hold much water. All of those things your cite (SCSI, serial ports, floppies) were replaced by superior technologies that in many cases were also backward compatible. What is out there that has been shown to be more versatile than FireWire?

It's not that just all of those FW-based peripherals for which the MacBook (and iBook before it) were designed to be used with (in concert with iLife, per Apple) are now relegated to the scrapyard, it's that there's no new technology that's out there that can do the same job as FW has been doing. If you're going to replace a technology, replace it with something better. People can understand that kind of path toward obsolescence but not the kind of path Apple has taken this week.
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post #409 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:38am
I wish a SONY Vaio TZ could be hacked so we could put Leopard on it- <sigh>
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post #410 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:39am
Jobs might be sicker than he can admit, and that might be impairing his judgement!

WHO ACTUALLY REALLY CARES IF THE CHASSIS IS CARVED OUT OF A SOLID BLOCK OF METAL WiITH A 1/1000 OF AN INCH TOLERANCE?! THIS DOES NOT INFLUENCE MY COMPUTING EXPERIENCE VERY MUCH AT ALL. THE OLD ALUMINUM CASES WERE VERY STURDY!

BLUE RAY TO EXPENSIVE? NOT TRUE. SONY VAIO FW LINE OF LAPTOPS OFFERS BLURAY READER/WRITER AS A 150/300 OPTiON.

NO FIREWIRE ON THE MACBOOK? HELLO? ESATA? AGAIN HELLO? ONLY USB? NOW YOUR STEPPING BACKWARDS.

NEW GESTURES? FINE. BIGGER TOUCH AREA FINE. BUT WHERE IS SOME REAL INNOVATION LIKE MAKING THE WHOLE SCREEN A TOUCH AREA????

COUPLE MORE STUNTS LIKE THIS AND I AM NO LONGER IN THE BUY ANY NEW APPLE COMPUTER CAMP!
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post #411 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by corinhorn View Post

All that I know for sure is I will not spend one bloody dime on an Apple notebook until FireWire is back on the MacBook. I'm not going to spend an extra $500 to get the MacBook Pro.

I've been a Mac user for 10 years, and for the first time ever I am considering buying a Dell.

Ha, ha, ha.....buying a Dell....you'll regret that move. You'll come to the conclusion that $700 is less than the frustration factor of having to deal with Windows. I personally switched to Mac two years ago, and have to use a PC at work. There is not a work day that goes by that I don't cuss out my work computer. Trust me $700 amortized over 2-3 years is worth it. (BTW you will probably upgrade the Dell in 1-2 years, at least that was my previous experience).

27" iMac 2.93GHz | 17" MacBook Pro 2.8GHz | Mac Mini Server 2.5Ghz
16GB iPhone 4S | 16GB iPad (1st gen) | AppleTV
www.heavyimages.com

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27" iMac 2.93GHz | 17" MacBook Pro 2.8GHz | Mac Mini Server 2.5Ghz
16GB iPhone 4S | 16GB iPad (1st gen) | AppleTV
www.heavyimages.com

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post #412 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasper View Post

Sent from my iPhone

Doesn't that text usually end up at the bottom of the mail (appended at the end) and not in the middle?
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post #413 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Apple doesn't conduct market research to determine what people want as he said, i.e., "So you can't go out and ask people, you know, what the next big [thing.] There's a great quote by Henry Ford, right? He said, 'If I'd have asked my customers what they wanted, they would have told me "A faster horse."

However, Apple does buy all the IMS/AC Neilsen type data re unit/$ sales/market share and intent to purchase data. This is evidenced by what Jobs and top management have said, presented or posted in their keynotes. quarterly reports, financial conferences and annual meetings, as well as printed in the quarterly & annual reports,

Apple is obviously well aware of what is occurring in the market place. Particularly when they created the market.

Great read. FORTUNE: Steve Jobs Speaks Out.

On managing through the economic downturn
"We've had one of these before, when the dot-com bubble burst. What I told our company was that we were just going to invest our way through the downturn, that we weren't going to lay off people, that we'd taken a tremendous amount of effort to get them into Apple in the first place -- the last thing we were going to do is lay them off. And we were going to keep funding. In fact we were going to up our R&D budget so that we would be ahead of our competitors when the downturn was over. And that's exactly what we did. And it worked. And that's exactly what we'll do this time."

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/...une/index.html


Ok. Nice points. Apple probably are aware of the FW market penetration in peripheral devices. I won't argue that point.

I think some here feel that Apple went out and performed a market research study to see if users wanted FW ports in the new MB and I doubt that that happened. IMO, they've extrapolated the demand for FW on the new MBs based on data on FW market share in peripherals.

But have they considered legacy device support?
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post #414 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

You've just hit upon the crux of the issue. The Macbook was a good computer for field recording and ingesting of video. Much like the MPAA and RIAA consider an illegally downloaded song a "missing CD album" sale ..Apple must be looking at each Macbook sale as a potential Macbook Pro sale that didn't happen.

Removing FW from the Macbook removes that ability and pushes people towards the MBP. It's a benefit to Apple but does nothing for people.

Is it wrong for a consumer to seek a financial benefit and work towards their own best self interest?

Except of course if the customer chooses not to buy from Apple at all. Apple looses money if a Macbook is purchased over a Macbook Pro. However, they lose a lot more if they buy the xps1330 instead
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post #415 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I don't know what the big deal is. The MacBook is obviously an entry level system designed for students, average consumers that don't need tons of horsepower or don't have the $$$ for a Pro-level computer.

This thing missed the entry level mark by about $500. This is a mid to upper range premium computer.
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post #416 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

How in the world could that possibly surprise you? Apple has never used more two USB ports on their consumer and pro machines since it pioneered the use of USB on its PowerBook 3G "M5353" back in May 1999, expect for its 17" model which still has 3 USB ports.

Now, if you want to complain that you lost a port but didn't get an extra USB2.0 to replace it, I understand that argument, especially on the MBP.

That's what i was meaning...if i'm running Logic Pro on my Powerbook G4 with 1 usb for ext HDD, 1usb for mouse(and USB key for transfers) and FW400 for Motu Traveller...i'm screwed now.
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post #417 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

And we're at an impasse here, because I suspect exactly the opposite. Most Mac users are just like most computer users in general: they're not "pro"s, they're not power users, they don't follow technology or rumors of upcoming products. They surf the web, send emails, and organize their pictures and music. And that's it.

It would shock me if even 5% of Macbooks sold have ever had a Firewire device plugged into them.

Well then we'll have to agree to disagree.

However, if you go to Best Buy and buy a external HDD, almost all are USB. There are a few USB/FW but most are pure USB.

But when you go to the Apple store or buy from the online Apple store there is a great selection of FW HDDs. Even FW 800 drives which I've never seen at a BB.

I don't know where Mac users get their external HDDs or peripherals in general, but if they get them at an Apple store, which isn't improbably, there is a good chance its FW.

That's why I suspect, but have no proof, that FW use among Mac users is higher than for pc users.
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post #418 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zanshin View Post

Don't forget flatbed scanners. I never had anything but slow performance from one that used USB, probably because they cheaped out and used USB 1.1 or something rather than USB2. FW400 was a Godsend to replace connecting scanners to any Mac with a SCSI cable.

um...and AUDIO INTERFACES!!!


M O T U !!!
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post #419 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I wish a SONY Vaio TZ could be hacked so we could put Leopard on it- <sigh>

Go for it anyway. Same price as a Macbook Pro. Well, not exactly.

http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/sony...-32518039.html
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post #420 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

And we're at an impasse here, because I suspect exactly the opposite. Most Mac users are just like most computer users in general: they're not "pro"s, they're not power users, they don't follow technology or rumors of upcoming products. They surf the web, send emails, and organize their pictures and music. And that's it.

It would shock me if even 5% of Macbooks sold have ever had a Firewire device plugged into them.

Maybe... and maybe that's what's annoying - for the hardcore apple fans, the musicians who made apple popular by using macs on stage, the video producers and post processors, the photographers - effectively all the 'cool' creatives who made apple a brand that the students (who are buying them now) wanted to be associated with...

maybe it's annoying for THEM to see that apple is becoming like any other cheap notebook producer and making decisions for the masses while claiming (and pricing) their machines as if they were still special and made for pros.
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post #421 of 1663
10/17/08 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavydevelopment View Post

Ha, ha, ha.....buying a Dell....you'll regret that move. You'll come to the conclusion that $700 is less than the frustration factor of having to deal with Windows. I personally switched to Mac two years ago, and have to use a PC at work. There is not a work day that goes by that I don't cuss out my work computer. Trust me $700 amortized over 2-3 years is worth it. (BTW you will probably upgrade the Dell in 1-2 years, at least that was my previous experience).

Unfortunately as aesthetics increasingly the driving force, the hardware frustration of Mac is getting closer to the software frustration of windows. Not there yet, but wait a year or two until Ive decides to base the entire laptop line off of the air.
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post #422 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Go for it anyway. Same price as a Macbook Pro. Well, not exactly.

http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/sony...-32518039.html

They've just been marked down $250 off- so only- $1650 same as MacBook. New models will be out in 2 weeks with BLu-ray. But no Leopard ? Vista? I don't think I could.
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post #423 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:05am
Ah, so much angst over something that some cable or a simple adapter will fix.... (and that too, only for those choosing to restrict themselves, by choice or necessity, to the MB or the MBA).
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post #424 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Unfortunately as aesthetics increasingly the driving force, the hardware frustration of Mac is getting closer to the software frustration of windows. Not there yet, but wait a year or two until Ive decides to base the entire laptop line off of the air.

Well put- unfortunately.
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post #425 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Ah, so much angst over something that some cable or a simple adapter will fix.... (and that too, only for those choosing to restrict themselves, by choice or necessity, to the MB or the MBA).

ha obviously not a firewire user...
if only i was so "lucky" (to not be stuck with thousands of dollars of audio interface and post processing equipment and hundreds of dollars of apple software which needs FW)


...and before you reply "u can afford an MBP" think 'form factor' and 'MBP now heavier with one less firewire interface'
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post #426 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonybrookadam View Post

But they are the ones buying new macs in the greatest numbers.

Existing Mac users upgrading a two-year-old MacBook Core Duo are the minority. Jobs and "Jony" know that the REAL pricing decisions are made by switchers, who, as you've said, don't give two flits about Firewire.
*To them, $50 might make or break a system.
*To them, sidemounted blinky-lights (worthless battery indicator) is more important than a foreign connector (firewore)
*To them, the choice to switch is an uphill one. All of their software has to be re-purchased for Mac

For existing mac users, the choice is less important.
*You have a platform with which you are (ostensibly) happy. Windows is foreign.
*You have lots of software running on MacOS, perhaps software for which there is no good Windows alternative.
*MAYBE, you have a firewire drive, camera, scanner, audio box, etc.

BUT, you are already a user. The general public (and MANY professionals inc. graphics and video guys) don't upgrade their machines every year. You have a system that works. Poor college students buy a machine when they start school, and MAYBE a new one if they go to grad school. Laptops aren't purchased anew each year.

All of the above "existing" users aren't in Apple's sights. We don't bring money in like the hordes of switchers.

Simply put, Apple is following the diminishing retail $$ and catering to users who are actually BUYING their products. Only problem is, those buyers aren't mac users.

Those are good points. I agree with everything you posted. There is one caveat. A fraction of us existing [long time] mac users upgrade regularly for a number of reasons . I for one upgrade my desktop one year and my laptop/s the other year, so we;re buying one mac per year on average. I know mI may be a low percentage/factor but I still expect a certain level of connect-ability in my new purchases, FW 400/800 being one of them. Good discussion!


Something I thought about. There was scpeculation of FW via the CAT5E jack[using an adapter] before the announcmeent, that would be a great compromise of it offered the throughput(which I am sure it does) since we dont use the CAT5 jack here at home since our WiFi works well. Thats the kind of innovation I expect from Apple.... For your critics, innovation being the implementation of said tech, not necessarily creation of the tech, per se.
Just a thought.
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post #427 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Ah, so much angst over something that some cable or a simple adapter will fix.... (and that too, only for those choosing to restrict themselves, by choice or necessity, to the MB or the MBA).

A simple adapter cannot bring USB up to FW speeds. People can no longer capture video from their miniDV cameras without experiencing dropped frames on the MacBooks and if they use TimeMachine, their backups will take forever. I find it ridiculous that Apple pushed their new OS with TimeMachine as a big feature and has now crippled it on the MacBooks with the removal of FW. Also, I think that Apple should have left FW400 on the MacBooks and added an eSATA port to the MacBook Pros.
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post #428 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

They've just been marked down $250 off- so only- $1650 same as MacBook. New models will be out in 2 weeks with BLu-ray. But no Leopard ? Vista? I don't think I could.

Not anywhere near the same Intel Core 2 Duo (1.06 GHz); RAM installed: 1 GB DDR2 SDRAM. 100 GB drive. And a 11.1"
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post #429 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:19am
Come on folks. It's not like we all aren't going to replace our old USB2 and FW400 storage devices with USB3, power over eSata spec or FW3200 devices in a few years anyway.

Jobs probably saved us all some money there by not putting a FW400 port in the MB.

Also not like you can't buy new external cases for your current external drives. USB ones are dirt cheap.
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post #430 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:21am
Mmm.. just thinking about the new MacBook's EPEAT Gold status. How environmental-friendly is it when you have to ditch your Firewire-only external harddisks and buy new usb-harddisks?
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post #431 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Not anywhere near the same Intel Core 2 Duo (1.06 GHz); RAM installed: 1 GB DDR2 SDRAM. 100 GB drive. And a 11.1"…

Same price I said , that's all. Stop twisting things around. And I was responding to your post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core
Go for it anyway. Same price as a Macbook Pro.

You really have a lot of issues- don't you?
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post #432 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosstheboss View Post

That's what i was meaning...if i'm running Logic Pro on my Powerbook G4 with 1 usb for ext HDD, 1usb for mouse(and USB key for transfers) and FW400 for Motu Traveller...i'm screwed now.

I love it. I just go next door and the guys burst out laughing

But they did have some comments:
You weren't screwed last week, or the last 'how many' years you've had your Powerbook G4.

"if i'm running Logic Pro" I gather you don't now.

By the way, MOTU doesn't agree with you.

http://www.motu.com/newsitems/new-ma...ur-motu-studio
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post #433 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Not anywhere near the same Intel Core 2 Duo (1.06 GHz); RAM installed: 1 GB DDR2 SDRAM. 100 GB drive. And a 11.1"…

Same price I said , that's all. Stop twisting things around. And I was responding to your post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core
Go for it anyway. Same price as a Macbook Pro.

You really have a lot of issues- don't you?
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post #434 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:29am
At least you can't argue that he's a pretty funny man.
When a company stops chasing profit and start chasing the betterment of their products, services, workforce, and customers, that will be the most valuable company in the world.
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When a company stops chasing profit and start chasing the betterment of their products, services, workforce, and customers, that will be the most valuable company in the world.
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post #435 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Well then we'll have to agree to disagree.

However, if you go to Best Buy and buy a external HDD, almost all are USB. There are a few USB/FW but most are pure USB.

But when you go to the Apple store or buy from the online Apple store there is a great selection of FW HDDs. Even FW 800 drives which I've never seen at a BB.

I don't know where Mac users get their external HDDs or peripherals in general, but if they get them at an Apple store, which isn't improbably, there is a good chance its FW.

That's why I suspect, but have no proof, that FW use among Mac users is higher than for pc users.

Time Capsule. No FireWire.
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post #436 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Same price I said , that's all. Stop twisting things around. And I was responding to your post:

You really have a lot of issues- don't you?

My apologies. I was just trying to help you out. But you don't own a Mac now, do you?
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post #437 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

By the way, MOTU doesn't agree with you.

This is interesting.




The affordable 13-inch MacBook provides USB2 connectivity for audio I/O, and the MOTU 828mkII USB2 audio interface is the perfect professional audio I/O solution for this new generation of MacBooks. With plug-and-play connectivity via ultrafast USB 2.0, you take full advantage of USB 2.0's 480 Mb/sec bus speed, which is even higher than FireWire 400.
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post #438 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Where's the 13" Macbook Pro? Not only is Apple now telling me that I have to spend $2k to get FW and expandiblity but they are forcing me to accept a monitor that is larger than what I want.

I could moan about my numerous drives and audio interfaces that i can't use with the chuffing new macbooks but i totally agree! I've been holding off to upgrade my old 12" ibook G4 to a similar size machine (and looking forward to going zippy intel with 10.5) - it's only a couple of inches difference but the 15" pro just isn't as portable (and hell of a lot more expensive) !!

no-one seems to be arguing the logic/logic express case here - logic is mac only so what if you want to upgrade to a new machine but can't afford the pro and have a fw interface? (ie affordable NOT pro!)

damn you apple...
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post #439 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Apple doesn't do entry level anymore. The Macbook this time around is essentially a 13" Macbook Pro.

If only that were true. In fact is a priced like a Mac Pro but very neutered. No Express card, so discrete graphics, and no firewire. So basically you pay for a Mac Pro but lose most of the "Pro" features.
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post #440 of 1663
10/17/08 at 9:51am
There's a reason why there is a macbook, and a macbook PRO. They have to draw the line somewhere. if you really want firewire, keep your old macbook, or shovel out another $500.

It's a marketing strategy. Apple is growing faster and faster, and they're hoping that this new line will be "an affordable switch" for PC users. Macs have always been more expensive, so the concept of spending more money on the newest technology should be nothing new.

Reasons why apple can do this:
1. You can't get mac os when you buy a sony, hp, dell, whatever!
2. People always think that macs are better(this is an "image")

when you have that image, you can do shit like take away a FW port and let people bitch. They're still gonna grow, they're still going to be amazing machines. SO STOP CRYING AND WORK OVERTIME FOR ANOTHER FEW WEEKS SO U CAN AFFORD A PRO!

iMac G5
iPod G5
iPhone 3G
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iMac G5
iPod G5
iPhone 3G
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