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Jobs responds to outrage over MacBook's missing FireWire - Page 13

post #481 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by diskimage View Post

When I heard that the new MacBooks did not come with FireWire I was rather unhappy. So I went to the MacBook feedback page and sent some feedback on my opinion on FireWire. At this point I went from unhappy to downright mad because when I sent my feedback it asked for my name and I stupidly used my real name.

Today I tried logging into my apple ADC account and it appears that my account has been disabled and the only reason I can think of is because I sent negative feedback about the lack of FireWire in the new MacBooks.

Has this happened to anyone else?


I am deeply hoping that's just a coincidence, as it would be truly pathetic of Apple to do that intentionally.

Wouldn't be shocked, though. It's well-known that Steve does have something of a tit-for-tat petty streak.

...
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post #482 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Of course it's all about marketing.

There have been years of evidence of Apple letting go of FW400 which was clearly obsolescing.

The cases you see in the MB and MBP will be pretty much the same for the next 3-4 years. Hopefully, they will add the chip(s) that allow FW400/800 over Ethernet as I posted above in an earlier post.

Can you cite any evidence where AAPL indicated it was phasing out Firewire (forget about the 400 vs. 800 argument -- that isn't the point)
What about loyal customers with a heavy investment in FW peripherals who require a more mobile 13 inch Macbook?
So you agree with me that AAPL has sacrifices superior technology for the sake of marketing?
post #483 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcassara View Post

Firewire Target Disk Mode

I still need it.


Care to expand on that. Why?

- to migrate data?
- to trouble shoot?
- other?

To migrate data has been solved by Apple. Migration Assistant will use Ethernet or wireless networks.

Troubleshooting using Target Disk mode is not solved as far as I know. Target disk mode was very useful, and it's alot of work removing a laptop HD and putting it in another machine.
post #484 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone11 View Post

It would have been nice for Apple to add eSATA to the MacBook and MBP as a replacement for/complement to FW, since we won't get USB 3 until late next year and USB 2 is just too slow for many applications. The nVidia chipset offers six SATA channels in total, so there should be four spare channels for eSATA. SATA and all SATA devices are designed to be hot-pluggable; eSATA is just an alternative connector design, therefore no additional chips are needed to support this. In addition, Apple could license the combined USB/eSATA connector design from MSI, which basically means eSATA support will NOT require any extra space. Finally, eSATA can easily support target disk mode, Apple just needs to add some code in the firmware to turn the computer into a large SATA drive enclosure. In fact, Apple had already filed a patent for this very idea: http://arstechnica.com/journals/appl...mode-for-esata, so I am guessing eSATA support is definitely being looked at.

As nice as eSATA is (no extra controller, maximum speed), it is not bus-powered. You can drive a dual 2.5" drive array of the bus power of Firewire 800. For all mobile devices (ie, those devices not sitting permanently on or under your desk), Firewire 800 (and even more so Firewire 3200) over clear advantages that those people who care about convenience and performance and easily willing to pay a bit more for.
post #485 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

I would rather just use a USB stick.

Oops, did I mention USB? I wonder why where wasn't any Firewire stick......

Actually, I've heard of Firewire sticks. I don't think there are too many as they are expensive.

http://www.kanguru.com/fireflash.html

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/periphera...fed-245941.php


That you haven't heard of such, just proves that USB 2.0 peripherals are more popular.
post #486 of 1657
i really wonder just how much of a problem this is. A fair number of 'serious amateurs and professionals' are likely to have gotten a MacBookPro anyway cause of the way better graphics card and that as I recall still has firewire. As for the consumer editing home movies of his keys, he's probably got an iMac for the family and not a laptop and that still has firewire.

The MacBook is clearly being marketed to the non film school/music school students and general public doing email/word processing etc and NOT to the market that is doing video, advanced photo work, music work. ANd it seems like it has been that way for a while. And do those peeps really need firewire, perhaps not.
post #487 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawhead View Post

Stupid comparisons.

Display port: you cannot NOT have a video out port; the core customer -- college students -- often absolutely need it for PowerPoint presentations, etc.


go look at the Apple Store site. there are displayport to DVI/VGA/Dual DVI adapters. just like you had for the mini-dvi and micro-dvi ports.
post #488 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) DisplayPort has no disadvantage over the various DVI versions Apple was using. It'll be cheaper as ALL Macs will have the exact same port, the licensing free, it's highly scalable and robust which make it very future forward.


not to mention that one single port type is more end user friendly for the non tech types. they don't have to walk in and remember both if the other end should be dvi or vga AND if the computer is dvi, mini dvi or micro dvi. screw it up and you get to drive back to the mall to get the right one. or worse, you don't realize it until you are on the road and can't replace it.
post #489 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Is it wrong for a consumer to seek a financial benefit and work towards their own best self interest?

no but apparently it is wrong for a company to
post #490 of 1657
So tell me - when the backlight dies on an average consumer's shiny, new MacBook, what does he do? Take it to an Apple Store, where they'll ask if he's backed up his data? He'll say no, more than likely. Although he could have if he'd been able to turn the computer into a dumb FW drive. His fault for not backing up? Sure. Good customer experience? Nope. There will be no dewey-eyed switchers bemusedly remarking that working with their old, broken Windows laptop had never been so easy.

In my office I have an older Mac Mini with broken video out. I haven't bothered having it repaired because I don't need to. I just pop it into FW target disk mode, attach it to another Mini, and I can do anything I like with it, including booting from it and installing and configuring an OS from scratch if I need to. Now that it's set up, I run it as a little, headless mini-server doing odd-jobs for me. Without target disk mode, it would be a brick.

Would the average consumer ever do any of this this? Likely not. However, what's good for the service technicians is ultimately good for the consumer.

Video and Audio are important, but Target Disk Mode is the real loss here. Apple products have always differentiated themselves NOT merely on the basis of the OS. The hardware has always offered innovative features as well, many targeted at the people who wind up called upon to fix the things when they break.

As Apple systematically eliminates the points that differentiate their hardware from the hordes of generic slop out there, there will be less and less reason not to buy that slop, especially when you can hack OSX onto it anyway.
post #491 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

As nice as eSATA is (no extra controller, maximum speed), it is not bus-powered. You can drive a dual 2.5" drive array of the bus power of Firewire 800. For all mobile devices (ie, those devices not sitting permanently on or under your desk), Firewire 800 (and even more so Firewire 3200) over clear advantages that those people who care about convenience and performance and easily willing to pay a bit more for.

USB 2 offers enough power for single notebook drives. Although most USB bus-powered drive come with a connector that draws power from both USB ports, I have found that the iBook can power such drives with a single USB port.

2.5" drive array is what I would call a common usage scenario. If you need that much storage, you are better off with a 3.5" drive array and neither FW or USB can power a full size HD, let alone a drive array.
post #492 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by palex9 View Post


BLUE RAY TO EXPENSIVE? NOT TRUE. SONY VAIO FW LINE OF LAPTOPS OFFERS BLURAY READER/WRITER AS A 150/300 OPTiON.

Yes, thats because Sony owns huge pieces of the blu-ray technology......... everyone else seems to be having a hard time getting profitable licenses. Imagine that.
post #493 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by plokoonpma View Post

I can't boot from an USB 2.0

wait a second, you can't boot a computer from a USB attached drive. So how is it that just yesterday I booted my Macbook Air from a wired external drive. did they start making firewire ports look just like USB 2.0. and cables too. cause I'm pretty darn sure that I was using USB.

and yes I did say that I booted it from that drive. I had made a bootable external drive for emergencies.

it was a tad slower than perhaps firewire would have been but then again the computer itself is slower than other models so who knows which was the major factor. regardless things weren't that much slower for my tastes.
post #494 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by clickmyface View Post

Yes, thats because Sony owns huge pieces of the blu-ray technology......... everyone else seems to be having a hard time getting profitable licenses. Imagine that.

Shocker!

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post #495 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by plokoonpma View Post

I have customers with old first generation PowerBooks, Power Macs and alike.

it's not like their machines suddenly won't have firewire on them. if they had it before, they have it now. so that's moot.

and if they upgrade they will get an Intel Mac that boots just fine from USB
post #496 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by plokoonpma View Post


If I learned something all this 25 years as Apple user is that quality goest first always



those that want quality have no issue with the extra $400 to get a low end Pro. because they want the quality of the better screen, better connection ports and better graphics cards.
post #497 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by trip1ex View Post


The facts are that FW never caught on in the mass market. Intel came out with a much cheaper standard and the lower cost, does the job, good enough interface won the battle.

HD v Blu-Ray. two entered, one remained.
post #498 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck View Post

Yeah, with all the "down with the old standards" going on, I want to ask - why is there still a frecking COMBO DRIVE in Mac Mini
.

1. the Mini was designed as a transition machine and many folks in that group don't need to burn DVDs

2. there is a model with a DVD burner

3. wait and see if there's still a combo and not a super drive when they are upgraded (whenever that happens). I'm betting not. I am betting that the video out will be displayport like the new laptops so they can streamline their adapters. sucker bet there methinks
post #499 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I also lament the state of Firewire. Intels lack of support ultimately set its fate. Apple has more invested in Firewire than consumers. Just the way these things go.

…and Apple keeps making money and we get to keep shelling it out patching their incessant changes of hardware and standards.

The supposed simplicity and "just works" vaporises in reality with all the missing technologies, inconsistent implementation across models, patches, conflicting ports and cables, switches in hardware and direction Steve Jobs forces on his customers.
post #500 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

Again, you do not get it. Without Target Disk Mode you cannot repair..


so the morons at Apple created the MacBook Air without FW knowing that it can't be repaired. that's basically what you are saying because you have to have FW to repair a drive and there's no FW on an Air.

Sorry but no. Repairing a drive generally requires that you are not booted to that drive and that is 100% doable via USB if you have an Intel Mac. if you don't then either it's probably a machine that is so old its time to replace it anyway or it came with FW which will still work just fine (this ain't no rented movie file from ITunes we are talking about)
post #501 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by cummje View Post

Maybe the real issue here is about Apple's insistence that it knows what's best for it's consumers. I guess what gets me is the fact that they could offer more options.


there is such a thing as too many options.

the average user just wants the computer to work. they really don't care if something is USB or FW, they don't know the difference and won't care about the 3 seconds longer that USB takes to do something.

Pro users are the ones that want the bells and whistles which is why they are still on the Pro machines
post #502 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

It's a nonissue because it can be easily fixed with a screen overlays like the ones available for the iPhone.


you mean like this

Power Support Film Set for Macbooks

same company that makes the screens apple sells in store for the phone.
post #503 of 1657
Dear Apple,
Here's my shopping list. If I can't get it, then I wait... I postpone buying.

- Small Form Factor. 13" is fine, even 12" would work. I want very portable.
- Bright screen (usable riding in a car) LED backlight is ideal
- Fast Graphics (should be much better than low end)
- Firewire connectivity. I have two FW video cameras, several firewire hard drives, and I'm looking at portable firewire audio. I want a small form factor, not a large notebook. FireWire is the best to date. USB doesn't compare (but you knew that).
- Not too expensive, the MBP is too much.

Apple, you used to say that you don't sell stripped down computers. Now, it seems you do.

No firewire without offering a better substitute is stripping the computer down. What you should have done is offer the small connector FW 800 on the MacBook and FW 3200 on the MBP. The MBP could also offer eSATA. When we lost SCSI we got something better, FireWire. Now you're just taking away. We need high speed connectivity, not USB rubbish. We need FireWire or an Express Slot or something to work with. I would have preferred only 1 USB port, I could hang a four port hub on that. The space for the other USB could be FW. If you could do it before on a MacBook, you ought to still be able to do it. Technology is getting better, smaller, right?

We expect more from Apple. We're willing to pay something of a premium NOT to get a stripped down machine. I don't need a pro machine for travel. I have a Mac Pro.

Apple, Please don't sell stripped down machines. I won't buy them. I'll wait until you build computers I want to buy at a price I can manage. There are millions of users with FireWire Video cameras and Hard Drives. Hundreds of thousands of musicians who can't buy pro machines.

I waited a long time before I bought my Mac Pro. 8 cores, 10 GB memory. Very nice machine. Build it and we will buy. Please don't try to sell us stripped down machines. Thanks.
post #504 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

Can you cite any evidence where AAPL indicated it was phasing out Firewire (forget about the 400 vs. 800 argument -- that isn't the point)

They stopped shipping FW cables with iPods, then they stopped supporting FW syncing with iPods, then they released a new Mac computer that had no FW capabilities (only USB), then they stopped allowing recharging of iDevices over FW. Add that trend with the fact that mostif not allIntel Macs had double the USB2.0 than FW400 ports and the fact that it's a dead-end port standard, unless FW800 to 3200, and USB1.0 to 2.0 to 3.0, it's not hard to see where it was going. The only question was when; now we know.

Quote:
What about loyal customers with a heavy investment in FW peripherals who require a more mobile 13 inch Macbook?

If you need to replace your current MB, then buy the old style MacBook that is now more affordable. If your argument is about FW400 and not being the kid with the shiniest toy then this cost reduction should be a welcome reprieve.

Quote:
So you agree with me that AAPL has sacrifices superior technology for the sake of marketing?

I'd love to hear how you think the removal of FW400 is being used for marketing. Extra media attention that the new machining process or new design wasn't going to get? I don't think so.

They removed it because they see it as an obsolescing tech the way PCMCIA, serial, RJ-11, parallel and floppy drives all had to be replaced. At least three of the ones I just mentioned caused the same manic among Mac faithfuls, and at least two of them offer considerably less use and had no real alternative even if bought the Pro version of their notebook.

PS: The internal notebook optical drive is next.
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post #505 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post


Apple just told me to buy not only a new, spiffy laptop, but also replace all my perfectly good FireWire peripherals. I take that as a slap in the face for supporting a port that Apple has been pushing for a long time.


so do the math. how much will it cost you to buy a low end MBP v a MacBook and all new accessories.

I won't be shocked when it comes out that the Pro is cheaper.
post #506 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeonit View Post

http://www.petitiononline.com/MB1394/petition.html

please take the time to sign and spread the word to others!

it won't work.

because for every name you get they will have 3 sales of the machines which tells them that those 3 people don't care about the lack of FW.

and guess which one they will listen to. yep the money.

it's like the folks that whine about having to sign up with ATT for 2 years to get an iphone. if you tell them to not get the phone they are all "but I gotta have it. I just gotta"
post #507 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

Imagine if Apple had done this instead:

$999 for current low end Aluminum model selling for $1299
$1299 for the current model selling for $1599
$1599 for a model with an express card slot, firewire 800, slightly faster CPU, bigger HD, discrete graphics

Or imagine if Apple had done this instead:

$99 for current low end Aluminum model selling for $1299
$129 for the current model selling for $1599
$159 for a model with an express card slot, firewire 800, slightly faster CPU, bigger HD, discrete graphics

Did I just blow your mind or what? Seriously, what is the point of lowering the price for the sake of lowering the price? They'd sell more units, but that doesn't mean more net profit. Without stating how this would benefit the company it has absolutely no value, except to say that you want the price to be lower, but as consumers we always want the price to be lower (and as elitists we want the item to be rare).
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post #508 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeonit View Post

http://www.petitiononline.com/MB1394/petition.html

please take the time to sign and spread the word to others!

I'm going to bookmark that. Petitions to get crappy TV shows renewed can get excessive so it'll be interesting to see how many people actually sign this. The difference being that I think changing a a studios mind on a TV is much more likely than getting Apple to reintroduce a HW feature it has systematically pushed away from.
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post #509 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

PS: The internal notebook optical drive is next.

I hope so.
I was hoping that apple would take that out and add better graphics or an express slot. Now I hope that they take it out and put FireWire back. And no I do not want the old style MacBook with the X3100 graphics so I can have FireWire.
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post #510 of 1657
Read http://macs.about.com/b/2008/08/21/e...to-the-mac.htm there are quite a few articles on this patent.

There is no guarantee but it makes sense.
  • Deliver a benefit (target disk mode)
  • Try and patent it
  • Deliver it using standards


Apple has a history of removing technology earlier than most vendors, lots of little inconveniences but Apple is taking the Apple community in the right direction.

With Nehalem and Snow Leopard coming out about this time next year, I will hold off replacing my original MBP, alas at that time I will probably have to replace my RME firewire audio interface.....
post #511 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Hi Steve

Hi Connor, what can I do for you?

Well, I was thinking of getting one of your new laptops, the MacBook 13", but it doesn't have a firewire port, and I kinda need one.

No you don't.

I do Steve, I have an iPod that's firewire only, my external hard drive is firewire, sure it has USB 2 also but if I use that I have to find a power outlet and use a clunky power brick and it's noticeably slower. I also have a 35mm film scanner that's firewire only.

You still have a firewire iPod? - Hahahahaha! Buy a new one, simple.

But it still works fine, I don't really see the need...

Listen Conner, do you have any idea what it costs to run a Gulfstream? Do you have any idea how much fuel that thing uses - hmmm? One load of fuel is more than your car uses in four years. Trust me, you need a new iPod.

But what about the film scanner, they're not cheap...

Film scanner? You're kidding me, right? No one still uses film.

I do. I like film, its self archiving, independent of power sources, and I have thousands invested in lenses.

Connor, do yourself a favour, trust me, get yourself a Canon 5D Mk II - I did.

But Steve, they cost over two grand! To replace my lenses would cost me another 15...

Connor, that's YOUR problem. Look, you're obviously a cheapskate, so just get yourself a USB film scanner, or better yet, just get the Pro.

But Steve, those options are another grand and...

Connor, The Gulfstream needs a new set of rubber - capiche?

Steve, but why couldn't you have just put a firewire port on it?

To save YOU money Connor. You whine and moan about replacing your hardware, but we were only thinking of you as a consumer. I'm truly disappointed that you don't appreciate our efforts on YOUR behalf.

Well, gee, sorry Steve, I guess maybe I was being a bit selfish and I didn't fully realise.......Say Steve, how much did it save?

Two dollars.
.
.
.
.
Connor, you still there?


lol yeah, except the 2$ that they saved by cutting it out didn't get passed along to you conner, it just went to the gulfstream upkeep.

LOL.

This was just premature. Lets face it, Apple just can't hold it. If USB3 was in this macbook, nobody would complain. If it had an expansion card, nobody would complain.

they ripped out firewire like 9 months too soon and didn't replace it with anything.
post #512 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottkrk View Post



Apple has a history of removing technology earlier than most vendors, lots of little inconveniences but Apple is taking the Apple community in the right direction.

With Nehalem and Snow Leopard coming out about this time next year, I will hold off replacing my original MBP, alas at that time I will probably have to replace my RME firewire audio interface.....

Explain how Apple is taking us in the right direction? Where does this blind faith come from? You won't have to replace your RME (great product) unless you go with a Macbook. If you buy a Macbook you're throwing your money away.

Here's the type of performance you're looking at with USB 2.0

Here's how eSATA, FW800 and USB 2.0 stack up



USB 2.0 Dominated



USB 2.0 Dominated



USB 2.0 Dominated



USB 2.0 Dominated


Who in their right mind could say that dropping Firewire for USB was a good thing?
This is is just the speed deficit you face in storage the difference for audio interfaces
in latency and realtime performance is even more severe.

Steve made the decision that was most expedient for this design goals. He wanted a thin
laptop carved from aluminum and when the space got tight he jettisoned FW and created
an artificial line of demarcation between Macbook and Macbook Pro that prior had never existed
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post #513 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakboy View Post

This was just premature.

So in 9 months you may not call it premature, but do you think that others would be ready to buy new HW in 9 months?

[QUOTE]Lets face it, Apple just can't hold it. If USB3 was in this macbook, nobody would complain. If it had an expansion card, nobody would complain.[/qupte]
Even when USB3.0 is finished and included in Macs, the number of devices with it will probably be very slim, and the same argument that they can't use their current equipment with a new MacBook still remain.

Quote:
they ripped out firewire like 9 months too soon and didn't replace it with anything.

They done it before and I'm certain they'll do it again, but since Apple sticks with a case design for 3-4 years the only Apple-like solution would be to have not updated the MacBook case until USB3.0 is ready. The good news is that you can buy the old style MacBook or just wait a year for new Macs with USB3.0.
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post #514 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Who in their right mind could say that dropping Firewire for USB was a good thing?
This is is just the speed deficit you face in storage the difference for audio interfaces
in latency and realtime performance is even more severe.

Steve made the decision that was most expedient for this design goals. He wanted a thin
laptop carved from aluminum and when the space got tight he jettisoned FW and created
an artificial line of demarcation between Macbook and Macbook Pro that prior had never existed

None of those show FW400 speeds, which this conversation seems to be dominated by. I'd like to see those results. If your argument is that making FW800 only a Pro feature to push people into MBPs over MBs, then I certainly see your point. That certainly is a shady, though strategic, marketing move.
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post #515 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

If you remove it, at least give people an advanced warning.

What sort of advanced warning do you need? It's not on the New machines, which you don't have to buy. They are not taking it away or disabling in on your existing computers...
post #516 of 1657
[QUOTE=solipsism;1325854]So in 9 months you may not call it premature, but do you think that others would be ready to buy new HW in 9 months?

Quote:
Lets face it, Apple just can't hold it. If USB3 was in this macbook, nobody would complain. If it had an expansion card, nobody would complain.[/qupte]
Even when USB3.0 is finished and included in Macs, the number of devices with it will probably be very slim, and the same argument that they can't use their current equipment with a new MacBook still remain.


They done it before and I'm certain they'll do it again, but since Apple sticks with a case design for 3-4 years the only Apple-like solution would be to have not updated the MacBook case until USB3.0 is ready. The good news is that you can buy the old style MacBook or just wait a year for new Macs with USB3.0.

I guess my point was to try and replace FW with something else. an expansion card would let people use firewire if they needed it, without including it specifically. USB3 might be able to have an adaptor that could connect to firewire simply b/c it'd be so much faster than USB2.
post #517 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by roehlstation View Post

Because this thing sucks, look, I have more invested in FireWire peripherals than I have invested in computers, these peripherals don't really go obsolete. And it isn't like USB 2.0 really performs as well as FireWire (especially in hard disks)

Then don't buy a new MacBook. I'm not. I am curious to see if they do the same thing to the iMac. If they do, I won't buy one of those either.

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GOA

 

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post #518 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

This is interesting.


The affordable 13-inch MacBook provides USB2 connectivity for audio I/O, and the MOTU 828mkII USB2 audio interface is the perfect professional audio I/O solution for this new generation of MacBooks. With plug-and-play connectivity via ultrafast USB 2.0, you take full advantage of USB 2.0's 480 Mb/sec bus speed, which is even higher than FireWire 400.

hilarious
they're using a macbook pro in the photo


errrr..... are u sure the text matches the photo ???
post #519 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

They stopped shipping FW cables with iPods, then they stopped supporting FW syncing with iPods, then they released a new Mac computer that had no FW capabilities (only USB), then they stopped allowing recharging of iDevices over FW. Add that trend with the fact that mostif not allIntel Macs had double the USB2.0 than FW400 ports and the fact that it's a dead-end port standard, unless FW800 to 3200, and USB1.0 to 2.0 to 3.0, it's not hard to see where it was going. The only question was when; now we know.

I use a MB Pro and several FW peripherals. I intended to buy a new Macbook for my company but its lack of Firewire killed the sale. I insist all my Macs do Target Disk mode. I must admit you make a reasonable argument. However, marketing isn't only what you say, it's what you omit! I don't think AAPL wants to advertise that it's selling inferior technology.
post #520 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by trip1ex View Post

" I'm sorry that you and others* aren't getting what you want, but the customer base you mention is probably barely a blip on Apple's radar."

This post pretty much sums it up.

Most of the naysaying posts are whining because they aren't arguing the decision from the perspective of a mass market product.

They are merely looking at themselves and saying, "oh Apple, why art you thou doing this to me?"

I mean it's pretty obvious to everyone that if you're a heavy FW user and you wanted a new MB then you're disappointed. 1+1=2

Do you have to go on the internet and say what everyone already knows?

If you want to disagree with the decision then provide some evidence on how new MB sales are going to take a nosedive from this decision. After all this is how Apple is run.

Otherwise it is pretty much whining.

From what I can see the vast majority of MB users (I would say 99%) don't have any need for FW.

When I go the retail store or visit a site like Newegg.com the vast majority of storage devices out there for consumers are USB. There are a few FW/USB storage devices and even fewer (close to zero) FW-only storage devices.

Also the majority of consumer camcorders of the last year or two are USB. The move is on to Flash memory camcorders which I believe all carry USB interfaces. Canon has previously stated that this where their future lies for their consumer camcorder product.

Also one can see that Apple hasn't put FW on many other devices including iPods, AppleTV, Time Capsule and the AEBS.

Last Apple pretty much dropped miniDV support (which usually means FW interface) in IM08 which is their new consumer movie editing software. That was a year ago. Yes it works, but you can't get the quality out to iDVD using IM08.

This evidence should wipe the surprise from the faces of those who are crying "why me??" It should cut down on the drama at least.

Standards change. VHS was big awhile back. SCSI. etc.

The facts are that FW never caught on in the mass market. Intel came out with a much cheaper standard and the lower cost, does the job, good enough interface won the battle.

And now with the much faster USB3 set to be released in the next year or so. With computers having multiple cores which provide more than enough power that negates the cpu savings advantage of FW. FW is dead on the mass market consumer level.

It obviously lives on on the pro level. And there are some legacy consumers. But going forward its dead on the consumer level. And the MB is Apple's mass market consumer laptop.

The reality is the move to an LED screen. To an aluminum body. To a bigger than usual jump in the integrated gpu. To a glass trackpad. etc. These are going to do way more for MB sales than having an old plastic case with FW and a so-so screen did for MB sales.

IT's not the end of the world for the blip on the radar part of the old MB market. Any last-gen MB bought today is plenty fast. It looks like the new MBs aren't any faster than the old ones except in 3d games. The cpus are slower at least in the $1299 model.

Also MBPs are available in the refurb store for $1349 which are quite a bit more powerful than the $1299 new MBs. So if you can't step up to a new MBP when you purchase a new machine then you can step up to a refurb MBP.

In the end, I too am sorry some folks don't like the removal of FW on the new MBs. The reality is these decisions aren't made lightly and are made with millions of consumers in mind. They never can please everyone.

The only people that seem to be complaining or have a legitimate complaint are those with Firewire devices already that can only afford a MacBook. I can understand their frustration, Apple has usually had Firewire on their laptops since the introduction of Firewire and I guess they are so used to it and just expect it. Anything less and they get disappointed. For me personally, I don't buy the low-end laptops, but that's just me. There are USB2 to Firewire cables for a workaround. I am not sure how well they work, but I think is a solution to the problem.
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