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Jobs responds to outrage over MacBook's missing FireWire - Page 16

post #601 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by sambamac View Post

Steve Jobs is such an arrogant and cocky CEO! He did not even investigate the Camcorder market and affronts apple's loyal customers with such a cheap answer. I'm surprised, that he didn't close his e-mail with the famous 2 words f... you.

Really, it's time to go, mr. jobs. We won't cry!!!

Why don't you get a Firewire to USB2 cable and problem solved?

The MacBook is a computer for entry level users, if you need to use Firewire 400/800, get a MacBookPro. If you can't afford a MacBookPro and have a FIrewire 400 device, buy a $30 cable knowing that Apple isn't going to put Firewire 400 ports on their entry level products anymore.

Why? It costs money which they are probably trying to save, and they are going to make a product for the majority of owners. Apparently, most of the MacBook users don't need or purchase Firewire 400/800 products to warrant putting in a port that takes up room and costs money. IF you REALLY need a FIrewire 400 port, get a Firewire to USB2 cable and use one of the two USB2 ports for a Firewire 400 device. IF you need a FIrewire 800 port for a Firewire 800 device, same your money and buy a MacBookPro.
post #602 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Why don't you get a Firewire to USB2 cable and problem solved?

The MacBook is a computer for entry level users, if you need to use Firewire 400/800, get a MacBookPro. If you can't afford a MacBookPro and have a FIrewire 400 device, buy a $30 cable knowing that Apple isn't going to put Firewire 400 ports on their entry level products anymore.

Why? It costs money which they are probably trying to save, and they are going to make a product for the majority of owners. Apparently, most of the MacBook users don't need or purchase Firewire 400/800 products to warrant putting in a port that takes up room and costs money. IF you REALLY need a FIrewire 400 port, get a Firewire to USB2 cable and use one of the two USB2 ports for a Firewire 400 device. IF you need a FIrewire 800 port for a Firewire 800 device, same your money and buy a MacBookPro.

You don't seem to understand. USB is an inferior architecture. If you attempt to combine two you're going to end up with the lowest common denominator. You cannot take a technology like FW with supports simulataneous read/write and excellent isochronous support and "magically" retain those features using a USB port.

I think people are well aware of the $700 tax they must now pay, evidently more aware of this fact than you are of the technical foibles in your statement.
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post #603 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSA View Post

I don't think Apple is ignorant, I just think that they purposely try to push their users into more profitable models. Within reason every companies does this, but Apple just seems to be more aggressive about pushing users into higher end models by selling stripped down models.

Not only more aggressive. More blatant, obvious, and insulting to an Apple user's mindset and sensibility. In a word, AAPL's exclusion of FW in the MB is "chintzy"!
post #604 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

You don't seem to understand. USB is an inferior architecture. If you attempt to combine two you're going to end up with the lowest common denominator. You cannot take a technology like FW with supports simulataneous read/write and excellent isochronous support and "magically" retain those features using a USB port.

I think people are well aware of the $700 tax they must now pay, evidently more aware of this fact than you are of the technical foibles in your statement.

+1 on this. Well put. This is especially important for professional audio interfaces (for recording).

Everyone's talking about video and Firewire support, but people don't seem to have mentioned Pro-Audio that much.

Most pro-audio users do not necessarily need better graphics or a bigger screen, but Firewire has become an industry standard for fast, affordable high quality audio.

Look at how many professional musicians use macbooks on stage or in the studio. Just because it doesn't say "pro" doesn't mean that thousands of professionals don't use it.

Those thousands of users are going to lose support for their peripheral audio hardware, many of whom have spent $1000's on their Firewire interfaces alone.

As professionals we aren't going to let the hardware companies tell us what we need. We know our needs, and it's ridiculous to have to spend nearly another $1000 just for Firewire support and a bunch of features we don't need.
post #605 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

You realize that Apple is a big member of the BluRay consortium, right?

Yes I do know that. Apple agreed to support Blu-ray, but ultimately its still Sony's format.

Steve noted the high price of licensing fees is why Apple is in no rush to adopt Blu-ray.
post #606 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by jah4life View Post

+1 on this. Well put. This is especially important for professional audio interfaces (for recording).

Everyone's talking about video and Firewire support, but people don't seem to have mentioned Pro-Audio that much.

Yes we've discussed audio several times and several time its been suggested that you have the option of:

-Continuing to use your current machine

-Purchase the earlier MacBook for $999

-Purchase a new or earlier MacBook Pro.

-4 of Apple's 6 computers use FW, choose any one
post #607 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by jah4life View Post

+1 on this. Well put. This is especially important for professional audio interfaces (for recording).

Everyone's talking about video and Firewire support, but people don't seem to have mentioned Pro-Audio that much.

Most pro-audio users do not necessarily need better graphics or a bigger screen, but Firewire has become an industry standard for fast, affordable high quality audio.

Look at how many professional musicians use macbooks on stage or in the studio. Just because it doesn't say "pro" doesn't mean that thousands of professionals don't use it.

Those thousands of users are going to lose support for their peripheral audio hardware, many of whom have spent $1000's on their Firewire interfaces alone.

As professionals we aren't going to let the hardware companies tell us what we need. We know our needs, and it's ridiculous to have to spend nearly another $1000 just for Firewire support and a bunch of features we don't need.


Exactly. My old but solid G4 PB Logic Pro setup with a FW Motu Traveller and a Neumann U87 allows me to record anywhere, and like you say, many pros have multiple systems, so a solid, small, functional portable is perfect for location work and lugging. And when i'm back in the studio i use one of our Mac Pros.

Oh...and i could cope marginally better with the loss of FW400, but only two USB ports?! i never buy USB2 only HDDs for those times when you need to use it via FW to free up a port. Also, my little bus powered LaCie is quite fussy about how much power it gets (i.e. on a 15" PB USB it doesn't work, on a 12" PB USB it does!)...so if USB is the only option i have to use a sodding power-sharing cable.
post #608 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

You don't seem to understand. USB is an inferior architecture. If you attempt to combine two you're going to end up with the lowest common denominator. You cannot take a technology like FW with supports simulataneous read/write and excellent isochronous support and "magically" retain those features using a USB port.

I think people are well aware of the $700 tax they must now pay, evidently more aware of this fact than you are of the technical foibles in your statement.

Does it work? It may not be the best overall solution, but it is a less expensive solution. I haven't seen too many differences in a FIrewire 400 vs. USB2 drive scenario. Yeah, USB is not a great solution for hard drives, it's more for keyboards/mice/input devices. Firewire 800 is more costly and some can justify the expense and some can't. But for $700 more, they get a LOT more than just a Firewire 400/800 port. They get a larger screen, bigger hard drive, etc., etc.

Most people that buy an entry level system probably won't notice a HUGE difference since they are already buying an entry level system and they know that a more expensive system will give them more options. People have just been used to buying Apples and having FIrewire 400, but Firewire 400 is like USB 1 and USB 1 is going away in place of USB2. So, it is just a progression. I am sure the same discussion will happen if and when Apple comes out with FIrewire 1600 or Firewire 3200, or FIrewire 6400.
post #609 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Why don't you get a Firewire to USB2 cable and problem solved?

The MacBook is a computer for entry level users, if you need to use Firewire 400/800, get a MacBookPro. If you can't afford a MacBookPro and have a FIrewire 400 device, buy a $30 cable knowing that Apple isn't going to put Firewire 400 ports on their entry level products anymore.

Why? It costs money which they are probably trying to save, and they are going to make a product for the majority of owners. Apparently, most of the MacBook users don't need or purchase Firewire 400/800 products to warrant putting in a port that takes up room and costs money. IF you REALLY need a FIrewire 400 port, get a Firewire to USB2 cable and use one of the two USB2 ports for a Firewire 400 device. IF you need a FIrewire 800 port for a Firewire 800 device, same your money and buy a MacBookPro.

I really accept your objection, but if it would not be a problem for the customer, there would not have such a big thread about this. Why mr. jobs risks to affront all these customers? Because he can? This is really arrogant.
post #610 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by jah4life View Post

+1 on this. Well put. This is especially important for professional

As professionals we aren't going to let the hardware companies tell us what we need. We know our needs, and it's ridiculous to have to spend nearly another $1000 just for Firewire support and a bunch of features we don't need.

You are absolutely right man!!! Mr jobs ignores the user's needs. FW is important. I don't know, if an USB to FW adapter works the same way as a native FW port. But really bad is, that the new MacBook doesnt' support the target mode. It saved me in the past my "computerlife" when my display was dead. It's absolutely arrogant if somebody tell me to buy the old model only to get more features. Absolutely ridiculous!
post #611 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by sambamac View Post

I really accept your objection, but if it would not be a problem for the customer, there would not have such a big thread about this. Why mr. jobs risks to affront all these customers? Because he can? This is really arrogant.

The customer? They sell millions of Macbooks. There are 600 posts in this thread. HOw many individuals users do you think are in this thread? 200? 300?

HOw many of htose are complaining? How many of those complaining do you think are in the market for a MB in the next year? How many really truly need FW?

By the time you get done maybe 50 people might actually be concerned about this.

That pales in comparison to the millions of MBs Apple sells.

I know it sucks to be those that live and die on a MB with FW and can't or won't look at another option, but you can't please everyone when you are selling 1 product to millions of consumers.
post #612 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by sambamac View Post

I really accept your objection, but if it would not be a problem for the customer, there would not have such a big thread about this. Why mr. jobs risks to affront all these customers? Because he can? This is really arrogant.

I know, have you seen the MacBook? Is there any physical room to put a Firewire 400 or 800 port? I don't see any room for it while being able to do the things that apparently get more people wanting to do.

I know the Pro Audio crowd has a lot of Firewire 400 interfaces. Has anyone tried to use a USB2 to Firewire 400 cable to see if it works? Maybe it will just fine and no one will really notice. There are cables on the market for this. I mean, if it is a noticeable problem and it just simply won't work, I can understand. My background in Pro Audio is that you get the top end model and don't even bother with the low end laptops, it's not worth it, even if it works. Pro Audio guys need a decent size screen to see the apps like Logic, Pro Tools, etc., so a 15 inch screen is way better, plus getting larger hard drives is ALWAYS a plus. But I would find out if using a USB2 to FIrewire 400 cable will actually work for your particular device first, because if it works, it works, there are at least two of these ports on the MacBook, but for me personally, I don't even consider the MacBook as I want all of the attributes of the high models when I look for a new machine. If I can't afford it, then I at least have a machine that does work. HIgh end models instinctually have a longer useful life than an entry level model. If one amortizes $1,000 over the lifespan of the ownership of a laptop of let's say 36 months typically, that's about $30 a month, which is not THAT much money to pay out for a top end laptop.
post #613 of 1657
There is a saying to think about.

I want something fast, high quality and cheap. Pick two, you usually can't have all three. :-)
post #614 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by sambamac View Post

Steve Jobs is such an arrogant and cocky CEO! He did not even investigate the Camcorder market and affronts apple's loyal customers with such a cheap answer. I'm surprised, that he didn't close his e-mail with the famous 2 words f... you.

Really, it's time to go, mr. jobs. We won't cry!!!

Steve Jobs is the best thing to ever happen to Apple the company was nearly bankrupt until he came back, and now Apple makes some of the best computers you can buy. Also, if you really need firewire so bad go buy an adapter and if your gonna switch to PC have fun but we don't need to hear about it because we can't do anything to fix it.
post #615 of 1657
Here is what I would do if I just can't afford a MacBook Pro and want a MacBook to work with my Firewire 400 device. Call the mfg. of the FIrewire 400 device and ask them it if works using a Firewire 400 to USB2 cable. Does it work without any problems or noticeable difference, if they don't know, then maybe you should bring your Firewire 400 device to a local Apple Store and plug it in and HOPEFULLY they might have this cable in the store, if not, it will cost you the drive, time and $30 to get a cable to see if it will work. IF so, GREAT. If not, then you either have to save money and buy a MacBook Pro, or figure another solution to the problem.

I personally don't think most people will have a big problem, but if you do your homework before hand, you'll know before you spend the money on the laptop. USB2 is 480 Mbps. and FIrewwire 400 is 400 Mbps.
post #616 of 1657
I agree Apple will sell millions of these laptops.

It just would have been nice to know that Apple's committment to computer engineering was still there for the rank and file consumer.

Hell I don't mind spending a premium to get the stuff I want but many are drawn the the Macbook for the smaller screen and hence improved (opinion) portability.

Deliver a Macbook Pro with the extras and a 13.3 screen and I'm singing a different tune. It's not my fault that Steve feels that a narrow lineup is beneficial.

Sometimes it works ..sometimes it doesn't.
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post #617 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by brax.j View Post

Steve Jobs is the best thing to ever happen to Apple the company was nearly bankrupt until he came back, and now Apple makes some of the best computers you can buy. Also, if you really need firewire so bad go buy an adapter and if your gonna switch to PC have fun but we don't need to hear about it because we can't do anything to fix it.

Ok, man, sorry , ask Steve to adopt you, so you can say papa to him!! But you forgot something. When Mr. Steve Jobs left apple in 1985 it was a 600Mio $ company. Mr Sculley made it to an 8 Billion $ company. It's true, Apple had problems with his last CEO, but Jobs left a small company and came back in a big company. And don't forget, a CEO is nothing without a good team behind. I think absolutly, that Apple could also made good business without Steve. And one big business rule is: The customer is the king!!!!
post #618 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by trip1ex View Post

How many really truly need FW? By the time you get done maybe 50 people might actually be concerned about this. That pales in comparison to the millions of MBs Apple sells.

It would clarify the debate if Mac user groups would poll their officers and memberships on this issue (and on the matte screen). The poll should have several questions, the most important of which would be whether the respondent has Firewire peripherals he relies on, and how invested he is in them. If a dozen groups do this polling, we'll have a better handle on the percentage of the user base that is impacted negatively.
post #619 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by sambamac View Post

Ok, man, sorry , ask Steve to adopt you, so you can say papa to him!! But you forgot something. When Mr. Steve Jobs left apple in 1985 it was a 600Mio $ company. Mr Sculley made it to an 8 Billion $ company. It's true, Apple had problems with his last CEO, but Jobs left a small company and came back in a big company. And don't forget, a CEO is nothing without a good team behind. I think absolutly, that Apple could also made good business without Steve. And one big business rule is: The customer is the king!!!!

I understand what your saying I have worked at Apple since college and everything is approved by Steve (and rejected a lot) but the company has had nothing but success since he has gotten back. If you look back people have complained about things that are way more important than if the new MacBook has firewire or not so why is this such a big deal.
post #620 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Knights View Post

It would clarify the debate if Mac user groups would poll their officers and memberships on this issue (and on the matte screen). The poll should have several questions, the most important of which would be whether the respondent has Firewire peripherals he relies on, and how invested he is in them. If a dozen groups do this polling, we'll have a better handle on the percentage of the user base that is impacted negatively.

The types of people who join Mac user groups are the same type of people who post on these forums. They do not reflect average computer users.
post #621 of 1657
In other news, Wired's November issue, p. 122, considers the MacBook Pro 15" a "Test Best" product, giving it a score of 9 out of 10. (The iPod Touch gets 8; the iPhone gets 7.) Here's the review:

Quote:
Mac haters, get ready to seethe. The MacBook Pro 15-inch isn't just the best Mac around, it's one hell of a PC. Even when running a nonnative OS (Windows, that is), this Mac made a mockery of its competitors in gaming tests and lapped its rivals in battery life. Of course, there's also OS X and Apple's included suite of applications, which are top-notch. Thoughtful additions like gesture-based trackpad shortcuts and the trip-resistant magnetic power connector only sweeten the deal. WIRED Astounding gaming performance--even trumped a $4,800 Alienware gaming machine. Unrivaled battery life of three hours of DVD playback at max screen brightness. Performs just as well as a PC as it does as a Mac. TIRED Just two USB ports and none of the fancy stuff like HDMI, eSATA, Blu-ray drive, or even a lousy SD slot. Expensive. $2499.

The machine's positive elements are excellent and reflect SJ's greatness. It would never have been created or approved by a committee. But its omissions reflect his tragically hip minimalism.
post #622 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by brax.j View Post

I understand what your saying I have worked at Apple since college and everything is approved by Steve (and rejected a lot) but the company has had nothing but success since he has gotten back. If you look back people have complained about things that are way more important than if the new MacBook has firewire or not so why is this such a big deal.

what things would those be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Knight

The machine's positive elements are excellent and reflect SJ's greatness. It would never have been created or approved by a committee. But its omissions reflect his tragically hip minimalism.

poetic
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post #623 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

The types of people who join Mac user groups are the same type of people who post on these forums.

That is a testable proposition: Poll user groups and find out how many participate in forums like this. I doubt that many do--or if they do, it is rarely in an Apple-strategy-kibitzing forum like this one, but more likely in one dealing with down-to-earth personal questions of getting a piece of software to work, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

They do not reflect average computer users.

That's a testable proposition too, and probably one for which there is already some sort of rough answer available. (I.e., probably surveys have been made to compare average users to user-group members.) It's likely that user-group members are heavier users of their equipment and own more software and peripherals. Even so, useful information can be obtained, despite their differences. For instance, user-group members who do audio-visual work could be asked how many use Firewire, and how many consider it important. I think that percentage won't be too far from the percentage of non-member audio-visual users who consider it important.

Lighting a candle will illuminate things, even if we can't get an exact picture. Anyway, it'll be better than just pulling numbers out of thin air, like "1%."
post #624 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

poetic

I'm glad you liked it. It's called a "conflation," and there's actually a web site devoted to them here:
http://www.conflations.com/pages/intro.html

It states, "a conflation is an amalgamation of two different expressions. In most cases, the combination results in a new expression that makes little sense literally, but clearly expresses an idea because it references well-known idioms. All conflations fit into one of two major categories: Congruent Conflations & Incongruent Conflations."

Here's an example of the latter:
“The devil's in the pudding.”

Here are a couple of examples of the latter that I created that now adorn its site:

"Let the heavens fall where they may."
“Out of the frying pan and into the soup.”
post #625 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by sambamac View Post

Ok, man, sorry , ask Steve to adopt you, so you can say papa to him!! But you forgot something. When Mr. Steve Jobs left apple in 1985 it was a 600Mio $ company. Mr Sculley made it to an 8 Billion $ company. It's true, Apple had problems with his last CEO, but Jobs left a small company and came back in a big company. And don't forget, a CEO is nothing without a good team behind. I think absolutly, that Apple could also made good business without Steve. And one big business rule is: The customer is the king!!!!

Yes, in most instances the customer is right. However, we are dealing with technical issues here that may be able to be overcome with a simple $30 cable adapter. Firewire 400 is the USB 1 of that style connector. Firewire is only used in a certain type of device, much like any type of input/output port. Now, Apple has already gone to Firewire 800 and that is predominately used in the higher end devices for a small group of users. The MacBook was designed for entry level needs and the typical entry level user don't absolutely need a FIrewire 400 port in this product if they can still use a USB2 to FIrewire 400 cable adapter and still be able to use their existing Firewire 400 device. I still have yet to hear anyone say that this absolutely does not work with a specific product. Now, in terms of Steve Jobs and Apple. He had to leave Apple in order to get a different perspective and through Next ups and downs, he came back with some pretty cool ideas and brought in the talent to put it all together and he has a very good job getting Apple back. Is he perfect? No. But for what the task was at hand to systematically take Apple from a ruined company to a star on Wall Street and increase sales to the point that he has, he has done an excellent job. We have a much better OS than before, we have much better hardware than before, and we have some pretty cool applications and a much better purchasing experience through the on-line and physical Apple stores than before. Apple is always learning from the mistakes and is learning better than Microsoft or Dell, etc. This argument over a Firewire 400 port in an entry level laptop is kind of foolish in the big scheme of things since they physically have no room to put the connector and have everything else they put in this little laptop.

For everyday users that don't have the money, it is a great product, for the Pro minded users that need more ports, etc., etc., go for the MacBook Pro 15inch or 17 inch or maybe wait until the production of the replacement 17 inch model comes out. Any time a new product comes out there is always a small group of people that will bitch and complain and sometimes it is warranted and sometimes not. I feel, personally, that leaving the FIrewire port out of the entry level product is not that big of deal. It doesn't bother me at all and I am a customer. It is impossible to please everyone all of the time. so let's move on to something more important.
post #626 of 1657
Wow, helluva thread... 600+ posts.

Read my sig.

...
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post #627 of 1657
The removal of firewire is a DOWNGRADE no matter how much Jobs tries to spin it. I use firewire all the time with my GTech drive. USB is a fricken slug.

It's amazing that I was about to sell my 06 macbook to a friend and get a new macbook but I had to back out and explain to him that the newest macbook was less functional than mine.

And shut up about telling me or others to buy a macbook pro. I'll buy a macbook pro the day they come in a 13" size. 15" is too big.
post #628 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

The removal of firewire is a DOWNGRADE no matter how much Jobs tries to spin it. I use firewire all the time with my GTech drive. USB is a fricken slug.

It's amazing that I was about to sell my 06 macbook to a friend and get a new macbook but I had to back out and explain to him that the newest macbook was less functional than mine.

And shut up about telling me or others to buy a macbook pro. I'll buy a macbook pro the day they come in a 13" size. 15" is too big.

Exactly my situation, too. Promised my friend to sell her my MPB and now have to tell her I can't because the new machines are a glossy non-connective block of metal.

One more thing: This thread painfully shows that majority rule can be the worst kind of dictatorship. Why do you USB freaks even waste your time here to justify Apple's decisions? I mean you're happy with the new machines so please shut up an go back to your USB-friendly hobbies and don't try to majority-rule us. We have to complain because we lost something - and you complain about us, and THAT's arrogant, ignorant and not acceptable. Sorry.
post #629 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

Even better, a refurbished Macbook Pro for $1350, just $50 more than the new low end Macbook, with larger screen, 2 Firewire ports (400 and 800) and ExpressCard slot.

Extremely tempting....

Another thought, there are still a lot of new previous generation, not just refurbished, Macbook Pros for sale. For example the the 2.5GHz model that was a little over $2300 a little over a week ago is now $1799.95. And some dealers also have a $150 Mfrs rebate too. That equals $1649.95 for a machine that was a little over $2300 about 7-10 days ago. Look at MacConnection's website. I'm not happy that they didn't have 2 firewire ports(could be one FW400 and one FW800 or two FW800) on the new MBP because I use both ports at once. That's why I did exactly what I mentioned above. So I got what I wanted and needed and also saved me close to $700 too! In any case, with what Apple's to their Mac lineup, that might be the last Mac I buy.
post #630 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

The removal of firewire is a DOWNGRADE no matter how much Jobs tries to spin it. I use firewire all the time with my GTech drive. USB is a fricken slug.

It's amazing that I was about to sell my 06 macbook to a friend and get a new macbook but I had to back out and explain to him that the newest macbook was less functional than mine.

And shut up about telling me or others to buy a macbook pro. I'll buy a macbook pro the day they come in a 13" size. 15" is too big.

Totally.


Seems strange to make budget (Express) versions of pro apps (Logic and Final Cut Pro) that require a Pro machine to get full funtionality from - i.e FireWire interfaces and HDcams.


....many audio/video students are on a tight budget (like most of us!), so they strike a balance between a cheaper MacBook and decent camera/audio interface (both FW)...
post #631 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosstheboss View Post

Totally.
....many audio/video students are on a tight budget (like most of us!), so they strike a balance between a cheaper MacBook and decent camera/audio interface (both FW)...

Especially as the new Mabooks aren't really small budget computers. The technical quite similarly equipped 999$ plastic Macbook shows how much we pay for design and how much for the interior parts...

The pricing of the Macbook Air very well shows the costs of the one-block production method.

You know what? I would pay 2000 bucks right away - for a 13 inch MBP with a matte display and FW. It's not a micacle to assemble such a machine.
post #632 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

The VAIO Z can be configured with BD recording for $2799. It's the model I'm considering since Apple doesn't want my money anymore. That said, the Z is more akin to a Macbook Pro (two graphics cards, full expansion) and a high res 1600x900 screen. It is nearly a full pound lighter than the MacBook thanks to carbon fiber construction. The most direct competition for the MacBook is the VAIO SR.

Don't forget to upgrade hard drive, processor and OS. That will drive the price to $3,049.99.

Then add VIdeo Software ($209); AntiVirus Software ($49.95/year)

Then there is the Graphic cards, Multi-Touch trackpad, iLife, all the Leopard software (including Time Machine, Quick Look, Spaces, Spotlight, Dashboard, iChat, Address Book, Front Row, Xcode Developer Tools) and Bootcamp, Bootcamp, Bootcamp.

And when it comes to service and support, I'll take Apple's anytime.

As for the VAIO SR, upgrade to get anywhere near the Macbook starts at $1849 and then add $500 for Blu-Ray.

Me, a Macbook Pro. But that is your choice.
post #633 of 1657
Your correct most new ones have a USB interface however I, like many other here, do not. Having two videocameras with firewire and a couple of hard drives leaves me out in the cold. (something very easily avoidable). lets face it a laptop of this price that only provides you with USB interface and only two of them is frankly ridiculous nowadays.I RECENTLY BOUGHT an "Acer Aspire One" as a present, thats a 299 euro machine and that comes with 2 card reader 3 USB ports 1 Ethernet port 1 VGA out and a kensington lock all for 299 euros.

If Apple had provided some other type of connection possibility then OK but 2 USB ports is laughable. No Firewire no Expansion slot no USB3 no Sd card reader, nothing that could justify removing that firewire port.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

All one needs to do is look at the current consumer video cameras. Most new cameras offer a USB port along with FireWire and some are beginning to offer USB only.

That is how we know most PC users don't use FireWire. Their would be little use in the camera manufacturer spending money for the extra USB license if it wasn't needed.
post #634 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanto View Post

lets face it a laptop of this price that only provides you with USB interface and only two of them is frankly ridiculous nowadays.

Here's a challenge. Provide with specs and supported with links a comparable laptop. Dare you!
post #635 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Here's a challenge. Provide with specs and supported with links a comparable laptop. Dare you!

That may be hard.

But if I provide links to machines with better specs for less, will that count?
post #636 of 1657
When Apple dropped the modem port from the iMac (and subsequent computers) they provided anApple-branded solutions for those who still needed a modem port.

When Apple dropped the Ethernet port from the MacBook Air they provided an Apple-branded solution for those who still needed a Ethernet on the Macbook Air.

When Apple dropped the FireWire port from the MacBook (and probably subsequent future computers) they did NOTHING for its customers. Nothing, except drop the port.

I don't have a problem buying a FireWire to USB converter device. I think it sucks, but I would buy it if I had too. But I want the device to come from Apple. Not from a 3rd party manufacturer which tested their device on a whole total of 3 FireWire devices before they deemed it "Mac-compatible".

An Apple branded solution is needed here (especially if the iMac updates next month drop FireWire too).
post #637 of 1657
Originally Posted by Abster2core
Here's a challenge. Provide with specs and supported with links a comparable laptop. Dare you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

That may be hard.

But if I provide links to machines with better specs for less, will that count?

Why would it be hard to do? There seems to be a lot of people here that has stated otherwise. No proof however, but are quite adamant about it. They are more than welcome to participate.

P.S. Remember that my challenge was in response to the lack of FireWIre in the new Macbooks.
post #638 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Why don't you get a Firewire to USB2 cable and problem solved?

The MacBook is a computer for entry level users, if you need to use Firewire 400/800, get a MacBookPro. If you can't afford a MacBookPro and have a FIrewire 400 device, buy a $30 cable knowing that Apple isn't going to put Firewire 400 ports on their entry level products anymore.

Why? It costs money which they are probably trying to save, and they are going to make a product for the majority of owners. Apparently, most of the MacBook users don't need or purchase Firewire 400/800 products to warrant putting in a port that takes up room and costs money. IF you REALLY need a FIrewire 400 port, get a Firewire to USB2 cable and use one of the two USB2 ports for a Firewire 400 device. IF you need a FIrewire 800 port for a Firewire 800 device, same your money and buy a MacBookPro.

anyone who claims that lack of firewire can be solved by plugging in a cable to a USB port should do a bit of research to find out the difference between the two technologies.... this will help you understand why USB simply isn't good enough...

this is a good starthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FireWire
(look at the 'comparison to USB' section)

or if you're interested in speed check out:
http://www.usb-ware.com/firewire-vs-usb.htm

next - remember that lack of firewire precludes Macbook upgrades for those of us with many expensive peripherals (already purchased - and some brand new) which have no USB equivalent even if we wanted to throw out our stuff and start all over again (motu's USB audio interface options are the lower end of their range...)

lastly they should try and understand that it's not just about speed.... not only is USB slower, but due to it's host controlled design, as opposed to FW's peer to peer design, there are many cases where USB2 simply cannot handle the parallel transfers that FW can (like 16+ tracks of 96 kHz audio for example)

the only arguments left (as I can see) are:
- well go out and buy a MBP (weight, size and cost)
- go and buy an old MB with FW (that's not really an upgrade is it...)
- USB 3 is around the corner (no stats on speed or audio capabilities - and it's not here now is it?)

am i missing something ?
'cause it seems like a lot of people defending Apple's strange 'upgrade' decisions are...
post #639 of 1657
I've read the arguments from the "you don't need FireWire" camp and have tried to accept them at face value. However, there are two questions that I have for said persons and I would really like to know your answers:

1) If FireWire is "obsolete" today, why wasn't it obsolete two or more years ago when Apple was still promoting its virtues? It seems nothing really has changed in that time frame that would now suddenly cause FireWire to be obsolete.

2) If FireWire really is obsolete, why did Apple expend the effort to intentionally build it into the new-from-the-ground-up MacBook Pro, especially considering there is no native support on the nVidia chipset?
post #640 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross View Post

anyone who claims that lack of firewire can be solved by plugging in a cable to a USB port should do a bit of research to find out the difference between the two technologies.... this will help you understand why USB simply isn't good enough...

this is a good starthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FireWire
(look at the 'comparison to USB' section)

or if you're interested in speed check out:
http://www.usb-ware.com/firewire-vs-usb.htm

next - remember that lack of firewire precludes Macbook upgrades for those of us with many expensive peripherals (already purchased - and some brand new) which have no USB equivalent even if we wanted to throw out our stuff and start all over again (motu's USB audio interface options are the lower end of their range...)

lastly they should try and understand that it's not just about speed.... not only is USB slower, but due to it's host controlled design, as opposed to FW's peer to peer design, there are many cases where USB2 simply cannot handle the parallel transfers that FW can (like 16+ tracks of 96 kHz audio for example)

the only arguments left (as I can see) are:
- well go out and buy a MBP (weight, size and cost)
- go and buy an old MB with FW (that's not really an upgrade is it...)
- USB 3 is around the corner (no stats on speed or audio capabilities - and it's not here now is it?)

am i missing something ?
'cause it seems like a lot of people defending Apple's strange 'upgrade' decisions are...

So what are you using now?
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