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Jobs responds to outrage over MacBook's missing FireWire - Page 19

post #721 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Having an average selling price high price that the average selling PC, doesn't mean it's not mainly sold to consumers. There is overwhelming evidence to suggest that it is a consumer-grade notebook.

I assure you that I have only ever been completely and utterly unprofessional on my MacBook.

And what Apple should cater the lowest common denominator like a cheap Dell. Check that, the cheap dells have firewire.
post #722 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

since the MacBook is a consumer-grade computer



Again, the Macbook is NOT a consumer grade computer. The specs, configuration, materials, and most importantly, the price all make this a midrange/prosumer machine. Apple can call it whatever it wants to (Mercedes calls the CLS sedan a coupe, as does BMW with their X6 SUV), but it is a midrange prosumer machine.
post #723 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

And what Apple should cater the lowest common denominator like a cheap Dell. Check that, the cheap dells have firewire.

What is your point? Because it can be done, it should be done? Computers had floppy drives, serial ports, parallel ports, VGA connectors, and all sort do other card readers, slots and ports long after Apple removed them from their lineup. If you think Apple should cater to the "lowest common dominator" then I think your synaptic pathways have a TTL of 2.

PS: Those $400 Dell PCs that you think Apple should compete with make their money from using older, slower tech; poor, cheap designs; and come laden with trialware in order to turn a very small profit.
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post #724 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Can you point to some logical proof outside of your opinion that ports are that important to sales.

I can point to logical proof that faster processors, RAM, GPU, and FSB ultimately add more value to the user experience than ports.

yes the fact that i have about 4 friends who were looking to either buy in 1st time or upgrade old macs...
- one has just purchased a 2nd 2007 hand macbook pro (no money to apple)
- two are not buying macs just yet (no money to apple)
- one is mulling it over but complaining about the price rise for feature list (no sale guaranteed)
- i'm waiting until 2009 to see what happens

all were waiting for this release (like loads of people)
and i don't actually know anyone who's rushed out and got one

so that's lost sales on a small scale

check the petition for numbers - 10k so far - ok so that's not millions (which is what apple would like to do per year) but it's a sample from a small community.

ultimately macs have been popular due to word of mouth (until the recent TV ads - but they're only in the states and the UK)
if the die hard fans (the ones who are affected by this feature removal and associated price hike)
start telling their friends that macs are over priced for what you get then there will probably be a shift in the other direction...
post #725 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

Again, the Macbook is NOT a consumer grade computer. The specs, configuration, materials, and most importantly, the price all make this a midrange/prosumer machine. Apple can call it whatever it wants to (Mercedes calls the CLS sedan a coupe, as does BMW with their X6 SUV), but it is a midrange prosumer machine.

You are confusing low-end with consumer They do not mean the same thing.
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post #726 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

Again, the Macbook is NOT a consumer grade computer. The specs, configuration, materials, and most importantly, the price all make this a midrange/prosumer machine. Apple can call it whatever it wants to (Mercedes calls the CLS sedan a coupe, as does BMW with their X6 SUV), but it is a midrange prosumer machine.

I don't know where you get the idea the macbook is a prosumer machine, quite the opposite.

The machine has some of the lowest of low inside of it. For starters... a 13.3" 6bit display. That display alone puts that machine into a consumer category. But lets not stop there...

Before this new macbook, these machines had basic integrated graphics. Another reason why they aren't prosumer. This integrated gpu, was the worst on the market. All of ATI's and NVidia's chipsets beat it. Hell even the VIA chipsets could keep up with it.

Prosumer notebooks have expansion... where's the express slot? Where is the fw800? Where is the e-SATA?

Compared to the PC world, I'd argue that the MBP is a prosumer computer. No Media card readers, no e-SATA, no external dual lcd, no extreme core2duo option, no 256 bit or greater GPU option.

I love my MBP, but it is hardly a full on professional laptop compared to what is out there.

 

 

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post #727 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

How can I logically prove anything against an irrational faith that apple is always correct?

I'm not making excuses for Apple. I'm looking at the reality of the market. I've said I think Apple should keep Firewire on all machines for at least a year longer. But looking at the reality of things I can understand why they don't.

Quote:
I could point to sales of the unibook being poor compared to its FW based predecessors in a couple months, but you'd counter with it being either the economy or ill-informed users that don't belong on the Mac anyway.

I could ask people how they use their iBook or Macbook and you'll just counter with it being cheap people who should be paying more for a Macbook Pro anyway.

Comparing two notebooks or some particular example isn't good enough. There would need to be a broader trend across the market as a whole.

The example of how USB only peripherals far outnumber FireWire peripherals is an example of a broad trend across the market.
post #728 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross View Post

yes the fact that i have about 4 friends who were looking to either buy in 1st time or upgrade old macs...

check the petition for numbers - 10k so far - ok so that's not millions (which is what apple would like to do per year) but it's a sample from a small community.

This does not represent the market as a whole.
post #729 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

This does not represent the market as a whole.

No it's not, but it is a sample... possibly a biased one though.

The fact that SJ even had to address this shows there was a lot of pissed off users. I didn't realize it was that big of a deal. I thought the glossy screen thing was a bigger issue, since apple kept deleting the glossy threads on the discussion boards.

The MacBook is just a consumer laptop. If you need firewire, get a mbp... It's that simple. In fact you can get a refurbed 2.4 for 1350 right now.

 

 

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post #730 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

The MacBook is just a consumer laptop. If you need firewire, get a mbp... It's that simple. In fact you can get a refurbed 2.4 for 1350 right now.

Or just get a PC laptop. I'm not being facetious or a poor sport. You have to look at Apple's recent success.

The iPod
The iPhone
MobileMe (I consider it a success that they've replaced .mac with "something" )
Safari
iTunes

all run fine on the PC. Apple can play chicken with its users but they need to be cognizant of the fact that they have had success by being chummy with Wintel and because of that the blow from not computing on a OS X mobile isn't as severe.

I'm not willing to spend 400 bucks more money and not get what I want. I don't have to buy a Macbook Pro because I have options. When OS X is so superior to Vista that I'm willing to overlook Apple's history of spotty hardware then my choice may change but right now I'm not seeing that.

We can dismiss anecdotes all we want but the reality is once the negative sentiments creep a product their hard to get rid of. Apple even points to this with the "V word" adverstisement. Vista is not that bad but the negativivity surrounding Vista is a cancer Microsoft cannot get away from.
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post #731 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

If he thinks this, Jobs is truly completely out of touch with a large portion of his user base. While Jobs may call the new Macbook a consumer grade machine, it is most certainly not. You're not going to find two many consumer grade users at $1300.

Hey, I just checked out the Best Buy Sunday sales circular and they have a Dell XPS with Intel Core 2 Duo, 15.4" screen, 4GB memory, 320GB HD and a slot loading Blu-Ray reader/writer. I mean it reads and WRITES to Blu-Ray discs. The price is $1149.99 after $150 savings. If Dell can do it you would think Apple could, especially on a MBP that is $2000-$2500.
post #732 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Can you point to some logical proof outside of your opinion that ports are that important to sales.

I can point to logical proof that faster processors, RAM, GPU, and FSB ultimately add more value to the user experience than ports.

You do realize that what you're asking here is akin to stepping outside in a rainstorm and asking for some logical proof that it is raining.

As to your second part, I can point to logical proof that the fastest computer on earth wouldn't be worth shit to the home user without ports.
post #733 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by dposxfan View Post

Hey, I just checked out the Best Buy Sunday sales circular and they have a Dell XPS with Intel Core 2 Duo, 15.4" screen, 4GB memory, 320GB HD and a slot loading Blu-Ray reader/writer. I mean it reads and WRITES to Blu-Ray discs. The price is $1149.99 after $150 savings. If Dell can do it you would think Apple could, especially on a MBP that is $2000-$2500.

You only compared some basic specs, but you failed to look at the size and type of optical drives used between the two machines. The MBP uses a 9.5mm slot-loading optical drive. SInce Apple has never made their own optical drive, find me a BDat any pricethat fits into the MBP.
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post #734 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbh66 View Post

You do realize that what you're asking here is akin to stepping outside in a rainstorm and asking for some logical proof that it is raining.

As to your second part, I can point to logical proof that the fastest computer on earth wouldn't be worth shit to the home user without ports.

You're being pedantic. His argument is clearly about having more of a thing doesn't make it better or more useful to the end user. If the vast majority of people don't use FW400 then why should Apple support it for the few that due.

It's like saying the 2nd Swiss Army Knife is better than the first one, simply because it has more items, but it doesn't consider how that affects the price, if the design makes the items unusable, or if those items would ever be realistically used. If you think they are better to have them for the sake of having them I'd hold out for the Swiss Army Knife version with the 1/2" x 2.5" OLED display that folds in-and-out.

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post #735 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

If he thinks this, Jobs is truly completely out of touch with a large portion of his user base. While Jobs may call the new Macbook a consumer grade machine, it is most certainly not. You're not going to find two many consumer grade users at $1300.

I suppose that by that logic, the Rolls Royce is a commercial vehicle, as are Ferrari's, BMW's, etc?
post #736 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

How can I logically prove anything against an irrational faith that apple is always correct?

I could point to sales of the unibook being poor compared to its FW based predecessors in a couple months, but you'd counter with it being either the economy or ill-informed users that don't belong on the Mac anyway.

Now, talk about faulty logic!

You cant point to anything that will happen in the next two months time, because it hasn't happened yet.

I suppose I could point to the great sales of that product in the next two months time.

The only real problem here is the massive problems with the economy right now.

Unfortunately, new products like this are planned well in advance of their introduction, and there wasn't much Apple could do. It's possible that the $999 model would have been priced higher if the economic problems weren't so blatant.

As far as FW goes, very few people will care.

Quote:
I could ask people how they use their iBook or Macbook and you'll just counter with it being cheap people who should be paying more for a Macbook Pro anyway.

Then again, what use are the better CPU, GPU, RAM, and chipset if the machine is not capable of performing the tasks you use it for? I'm sure you'll come with an excuse here as well to let apple off the hook.

There's no doubt that part time, or low end, or programmer "pro" users use a MB rather than the more expensive MBP. But the machine is not aimed at the pro, and you would have a hard time proving that a substantial percentage of its buyers ARE pro's.
post #737 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

Again, the Macbook is NOT a consumer grade computer. The specs, configuration, materials, and most importantly, the price all make this a midrange/prosumer machine. Apple can call it whatever it wants to (Mercedes calls the CLS sedan a coupe, as does BMW with their X6 SUV), but it is a midrange prosumer machine.

The term prosumer was invented by Sony to mean people who want to spend a lot of money for a device that looks somewhat like a pro machine, acts almost like a pro machine, but doesn't cost as much as a "real" professional device, and who are not pro's.

So by that definition, the MB might be considered to be a prosumer computer.
post #738 of 1657
Face it, there is such thing as an apple tax. And rightfully so. Apple doesn't sell their OS usually. They sell upgrades, and they sell them cheap. The cost of the OS is included in the cost of the computer. The apple tax is well worth it in my mind, so when trying to convince all of us that the macbook is a professional machine, remember that there is an apple tax in that price. Just because it's 1299, doesn't make it pro. If anything it's an overpriced low to mid range laptop.

If you want a pro machine, get a macbook PRO.

 

 

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post #739 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross View Post

ok mate - you can look at every second computer and find USB2 - agreed - but that doesn't define domination does it... any more than the fact that Microsoft is on nearly every machine. Ubiquitous doesn't prove anything - or why would you own a Mac and be on a mac forum in the first place?

I may enjoy my mac...but I don't mistake that Windows still dominates the market...

There are some battles Apple wins. There are some that they lose. FW vs USB was lost. PPC vs x86 was lost.

Quote:
the fact that people (including Jobs - although i don't think that was his point) are arguing that USB is a substitute for FW means they don't understand the fundamental differences...

We understand the differences between the two technologies. It is just that for the majority of users USB2 is equivalent to FW400. The most common exception is, again, for camcorders.

Quote:
and the fact that there is no eSATA interface on any Mac - does that say that it's emerging too well does it?

No just that Apple is behind the pack in this area.

Quote:
like i said i'm going to ignore your vista arguments

Ignoring reality has little impact on reality. It can have a negative impact on you.

Quote:
...but on FW800 - yes it has been slow to pic up.... but then it's on a number of Macs - and has been for a while (including the latest issue) it may surprise you but many 3rd party companies are sticking with FW400 because it works fine... but I guess the marketing departments of companies like MOTU, SONY, FOCUSRITE, ROLAND, DigiDesign and RME are completely off the planet. Maybe you should write to them and tell them that all their FW400 products released late 2008 are already worthless...

Again, which part of "most people" confuses you?

Quote:
while you're at it, if you could be so kind as to offer an alternative...

Yeah, get a Pro box with FW800 and FW400 cable. Or a Dell. Whichever.

Quote:
well you might be using it, but you certainly aren't noticing how fast it is because it takes so long you have to go to bed - that's not quite the performance I'm really after...

btw I'M JOKING - not trying to flame you

like i said (and regarding the reading you have a serious case of pot calling kettle) if you're just transferring files one way - then go for it with wifi or USB - like you point out overnight is fine in this case...

If I need speed I'm not going with either USB2 or FW400 but fiber channel, eSATA, GigE or lastly FW800. A baby 1-2TB RAID array on my desk via FW800 may be nifty but when I'm messing around with that much data it should be living in my datacenter ANYWAY.

Quote:
Yes I do actually - of course it's a question of perspective... but then don't believe me - look it up, have a look at the very small petition which has already got around 10k signed up... and then think where it's all headed... how many home studios there are... how many budding video editors jumping on youtube - most of whom want to be mobile and dump hundreds of gigs of footage and audio onto their macs ON THE GO...

Anyone dumping hundreds of gigs onto their macs on the go needs to use a better interface than FW400.

Quote:
Yeah - got me... again.... dammit
hang on - no you didn't - for MOBILE use what choice have you got ???
GigE and eSATA are not suited for mobile

LaCie 2TB Big Disk Extreme w/eSATA

http://www.amazon.com/LaCie-301296U-...4554177&sr=8-5

LaCie 1TB Quadra w/eSATA

http://www.amazon.com/LaCie-301827U-...DW5KGMVN73W4YV

Quote:
who said anything about hot swapping raid arrays - that would be a dumb idea - not to mention heavy to carry around ???

If you're using a single drive it almost doesn't matter what interface you use.

3.3 pounds for the Quadra above. Yes, it is HW RAID 0.

Quote:
thanks for the flame there - I seem to recall that you said;

but then maybe i just thought you misunderstood the issue - it's not just about video cams, it's about a WHOLE AUDIO VISUAL INDUSTRY (sorry for yelling, got a little worked up) - that's right the industry who put mac in front of the masses in the first place...

I didn't misunderstand the issue. You simply are a minority. You do not represent the entire audio visual industry because a good number of video pros have MBPs.

No, you aren't the industry that put mac in front of the masses in the first place. Neither originally nor now.

Quote:
yes make that call to the marketing department of those companies i mentioned - because you obviously know something they missed... \

Consumers are moving away from FW. Every CE company knows that especially with the new MB. Beta lasted several incarnations in the pro market but it was dead as a doornail on the consumer one.

Quote:
you don't use eSata on the go...

On the "go" the lab computer (a Shuttle) goes with us. We have several TB worth of imagery sitting on it's own 4 drive eSATA array.

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90% market share doesn't make Microsoft relevant either...

Riiight.

Quote:
no you wouldn't since you'd have to lug around a power connector as well - unless you wanted to get one that plugged into your USB just to power itself...

Which would be just fine given my little FW400 LaCie requires a USB connection for power as well.

Quote:
some points :
- proving anything based on the fact that Microsoft does it won't help your argument on an apple forum (in case u hadn't seen the rather sarcastic ads...)
- feel free to take your eSata drive to anywhere without a power outlet and see how far you get...
- you sound like the type of user who the Macbook is perfect for (not into audio or video at pro speeds, only a few files, willing to transfer files overnight, moving from home network to lab network)

Yes, I don't do "audio" or "video". When I'm in the field I'm often using a Toughbook not my Mac. NOW that the MacBook has decent graphics I CAN use it vs my MBP but by no means do I claim to be an average MB user nor do I demand that Apple cater to my esoteric needs. There are probably MORE folks that would like a ruggedized MB/MBP than folks working audio and video with MBs.

You can ridicule MS but you can't ignore them. Apple certainly does not.

The average MB user is indeed that home user and most likely a student. That Apple caters to THEIR needs before ours is a GOOD thing. For Apple anyways.
post #740 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by dposxfan View Post

Hey, I just checked out the Best Buy Sunday sales circular and they have a Dell XPS with Intel Core 2 Duo, 15.4" screen, 4GB memory, 320GB HD and a slot loading Blu-Ray reader/writer. I mean it reads and WRITES to Blu-Ray discs. The price is $1149.99 after $150 savings. If Dell can do it you would think Apple could, especially on a MBP that is $2000-$2500.

You're just not getting, are you?

Apple doesn't WANT BD just yet.
post #741 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You're just not getting, are you?

Apple doesn't WANT BD just yet.

Yes, but it's kinda silly. The cable companies are trying to make digital downloads DOA with caps. Meh...if I want BD I'll get a PS3. aTV isn't a game box yet.

Alas no Pippin 2.0...but there is hope yet...the mini reborn as a game console.
post #742 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Yes, but it's kinda silly. The cable companies are trying to make digital downloads DOA with caps. Meh...if I want BD I'll get a PS3. aTV isn't a game box yet.

Alas no Pippin 2.0...but there is hope yet...the mini reborn as a game console.

I've been hoping for BD on a Mac. I want to use those lovely 50 GB disks for archival storage. I have little interest in watching 1080p on a laptop. Yuck!

My PS3 is just fine as a player through my 61" Samsung DLP LED model.
post #743 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You're just not getting, are you?

Apple doesn't WANT BD just yet.

Then why the higher prices and less connectivity(FW) features for the new machines? Do more than pretty packaging to try to justify the cost, add features to offset the price. Hey, the extra graphics power especially in the Macbook is great but, I guess is aimed at the gamers. But that's all I guess. The glass track pad and screen is a good improvement. It's hard to clean some of the plastic glossy screens as they scratch easily. The glass won't. Wait until the next big refresh of all of the Macbook line. Maybe there won't be as much complaining. And don't compare the FW thing with Windows PC's either. I've used both and there's an Expresscard slot on pretty much all PC's. If no FW on the Macbook then, at least an Expresscard slot.
post #744 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by dposxfan View Post

Then why the higher prices and less connectivity(FW) features for the new machines? Do more than pretty packaging to try to justify the cost, add features to offset the price. Hey, the extra graphics power especially in the Macbook is great but, I guess is aimed at the gamers. But that's all I guess. The glass track pad and screen is a good improvement. It's hard to clean some of the plastic glossy screens as they scratch easily. The glass won't. Wait until the next big refresh of all of the Macbook line. Maybe there won't be as much complaining. And don't compare the FW thing with Windows PC's either. I've used both and there's an Expresscard slot on pretty much all PC's. If no FW on the Macbook then, at least an Expresscard slot.

My post just addressed BD drives.
post #745 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

My post just addressed BD drives.

I consider BD a feature too.
post #746 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What is your point? Because it can be done, it should be done? Computers had floppy drives, serial ports, parallel ports, VGA connectors, and all sort do other card readers, slots and ports long after Apple removed them from their lineup. If you think Apple should cater to the "lowest common dominator" then I think your synaptic pathways have a TTL of 2.

PS: Those $400 Dell PCs that you think Apple should compete with make their money from using older, slower tech; poor, cheap designs; and come laden with trialware in order to turn a very small profit.

I'm not saying they should compete with those $400 Dells, I'm saying they've lowered the Macbook to that level.
post #747 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You're just not getting, are you?

Apple doesn't WANT BD just yet.

Jobs and Ive aren't the ones buying the machines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

As far as FW goes, very few people will care.

Because Steve said so or are you just plain ignoring the Mac users who are up in arms up the loss of firewire? But hey, the fad switcher is more important than the traditional Mac user right?
post #748 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Jobs and Ive aren't the ones buying the machines.

Yes, but Jobs is the one specing the machines.

Quote:
Because Steve said so or are you just plain ignoring the Mac users who are up in arms up the loss of firewire? But hey, the fad switcher is more important than the traditional Mac user right?

Hey!

Have you read any of my posts here?

Because if you did, you'd see I want BD drives just as much as you, and I've said several times that I think Apple moved too fast with the removal of FW.
post #749 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Yes, but Jobs is the one specing the machines.



Hey!

Have you read any of my posts here?

Because if you did, you'd see I want BD drives just as much as you, and I've said several times that I think Apple moved too fast with the removal of FW.

That's what I've been trying to say myself. Don't remove an old technology until you have a better one to replace it. USB2 isn't as reliable as FW. It doesn't do full duplex transfer like FW does. USB3 might but it's not here yet. Apple should've waited until USB3 to drop FW. Or at least something to replace target disk mode. I'm done with the issue. It's up to Apple now.
post #750 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Many of us thought that dropping SCSI support for the much slower, much more processor intensive, and much less reliable ATA drives, was a movement to the lowest level amateur PC.

When they later dropped much support for it in the OS (10.3) many of us were pissed, to say the least, because our VERY expensive equipment wouldn't work anymore, and we had to downgrade our computers to 10.2.8, or spend tens of thousands more on new printers, scanners, etc.

THAT's more important than complaining about a $300 external drive.

Yeah the move from SCSI was a huge upgrade problem. Downgrade really as it was to a slower interface. But this is exactly the problem, it wasn't nice then and it's not nice now and they didn't really have to do it this time. The ethernet vs FW400 isn't the issue because the old model had both, The FW400 plug needed to be replaced with the new model, instead they just scrapped FW altogether.

I don't think people would mind quite so much if Apple offered guidance on where they go from here. Presumably people are expected to buy cameras like this one:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...pf_rd_i=468294

I would say fair enough, that looks affordable, USB support, HD but hang on Apple, where is the software support for AVCHD? Hmmm, need to upgrade all the software to the latest versions. Mo money:

http://suburbia.org.uk/blog/2007/07/28/175003.html

But then you have to weigh up whether or not you take the money for a FCS upgrade (if you have a lower version or an alternate product) + a new camera and instead just buy a MBP and keep the camera you have.

I think consumers are reaching a point where Apple's choices forcing them to spend so much not only on the machines themselves but on everything else to be compatible are getting tiresome.
post #751 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Or just get a PC laptop.

I was at Fry's and Best Buy today after work looking at the options for a similar notebook to the Macbook, and frankly, I was left wanting. Perhaps it's because I looked at the Macbook first, but the build quality of the Sony, Toshiba, Dell, and HP were astonishingly poor. The Sony I had been considering had such a flimsy lid that I don't know how the screen didn't crack when I opened it up. The Dell and Toshiba are a special kind of ugly, and the HP is bronze plastic. I walked in, cash in hand, to buy a Sony and walked out not knowing what I'm going to do.
post #752 of 1657
My god, I can´t believe that this thread is going on and on and on over 19 pages..
What a typical pointless discussion this is..
Those missing FW in the new MBs: you obviously have a working system that you´re currently using and, considering the demands of today´s music and camera hardware on the MB - it seems to be working to your satisfaction doesn´t it? So don´t go and buy a new camera with FW if you want the new MB.
So if we can all agree that the one rule applying to most computers is : "Never change a running system" (anyone want to prove the contrary?), THEN WHAT THE **** ARE YOU CRYING ABOUT?
Just cause big uncle Steve doesn´t allow you to have the newest, best, MB? If you´re that centered on always having to have the newest, best, whatever, then you are just like all the PC Gamers who buy new graphics cards every 3 months - fanboys, nerds, geeks, what have you. Either shell out the extra cash for the MBP or GROW UP! Standards change. No one is forcing you to buy a new MB, are they? I quite admire Steve and Apple for their bold move. Does anyone have excerpts of the forum posts back when apple dropped the 3.5" floppies? Probably they´ll sound veeeery familiar....

Oh and by the way: I´ll gladly take up an objective discussion with anyone in the music or video business using FW-based hardware, as I´ve been doing so for the last 5 years too.

Dear moderator: pleeeeeease kill this totally unnecessary thread, won´t you?
post #753 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

I was at Fry's and Best Buy today after work looking at the options for a similar notebook to the Macbook, and frankly, I was left wanting. Perhaps it's because I looked at the Macbook first, but the build quality of the Sony, Toshiba, Dell, and HP were astonishingly poor. The Sony I had been considering had such a flimsy lid that I don't know how the screen didn't crack when I opened it up. The Dell and Toshiba are a special kind of ugly, and the HP is bronze plastic. I walked in, cash in hand, to buy a Sony and walked out not knowing what I'm going to do.

I do agree somewhat with you but dont underestimate the quality. The finish isn’t that bad if you compare them with the plastic Macs, probably better. Lets face it nowadays components are made in the same places, mostly in China. If you consider the Toshibas and Sonys or other top makes they are really excellent laptops that offer more for the money. The downside (for the moment) is the OS.

Don’t get me wrong I waited and waited for a non plastic Mac at an affordable price but putting up the price and lowering what you get just P*** me off

Makes me laugh that some people here think that it wasn’t the word of mouth that made Apple grow and that is wasn’t the fans that did a fantastic job of promoting it. Don’t underestimate the power of “word of mouth” or the impact that a few thousand disappointed Mac fans may have.

In my household Mac lost two sales (true fact) . I will not buy this Mac and I will not recommend it to anyone. (I have two Imacs an Ipod and just bought an Iphone, just in case you think Im not an Apple fan). Toshiba will get my money for now.
Heres hoping that they react fast.

Jonathan Ive your a genius!
post #754 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by mct View Post

My god, I can´t believe that this thread is going on and on and on over 19 pages..
What a typical pointless discussion this is..
Those missing FW in the new MBs: you obviously have a working system that you´re currently using and, considering the demands of today´s music and camera hardware on the MB - it seems to be working to your satisfaction doesn´t it? So don´t go and buy a new camera with FW if you want the new MB.
So if we can all agree that the one rule applying to most computers is : "Never change a running system" (anyone want to prove the contrary?), THEN WHAT THE **** ARE YOU CRYING ABOUT?
Just cause big uncle Steve doesn´t allow you to have the newest, best, MB? If you´re that centered on always having to have the newest, best, whatever, then you are just like all the PC Gamers who buy new graphics cards every 3 months - fanboys, nerds, geeks, what have you. Either shell out the extra cash for the MBP or GROW UP! Standards change. No one is forcing you to buy a new MB, are they? I quite admire Steve and Apple for their bold move. Does anyone have excerpts of the forum posts back when apple dropped the 3.5" floppies? Probably they´ll sound veeeery familiar....

Oh and by the way: I´ll gladly take up an objective discussion with anyone in the music or video business using FW-based hardware, as I´ve been doing so for the last 5 years too.

Dear moderator: pleeeeeease kill this totally unnecessary thread, won´t you?

The reason why people are irate and writing in this blog is that THEY LIKE APPLE, think that it was a mistake to remove firewire from the Macbook and want some other connectivityWHY are you here?
post #755 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by mct View Post

My god, I can´t believe that this thread is going on and on and on over 19 pages..
What a typical pointless discussion this is..
Those missing FW in the new MBs: you obviously have a working system that you´re currently using and, considering the demands of today´s music and camera hardware on the MB - it seems to be working to your satisfaction doesn´t it? So don´t go and buy a new camera with FW if you want the new MB.
So if we can all agree that the one rule applying to most computers is : "Never change a running system" (anyone want to prove the contrary?), THEN WHAT THE **** ARE YOU CRYING ABOUT?
Just cause big uncle Steve doesn´t allow you to have the newest, best, MB? If you´re that centered on always having to have the newest, best, whatever, then you are just like all the PC Gamers who buy new graphics cards every 3 months - fanboys, nerds, geeks, what have you. Either shell out the extra cash for the MBP or GROW UP! Standards change. No one is forcing you to buy a new MB, are they? I quite admire Steve and Apple for their bold move. Does anyone have excerpts of the forum posts back when apple dropped the 3.5" floppies? Probably they´ll sound veeeery familiar....

Oh and by the way: I´ll gladly take up an objective discussion with anyone in the music or video business using FW-based hardware, as I´ve been doing so for the last 5 years too.

Dear moderator: pleeeeeease kill this totally unnecessary thread, won´t you?

yes it is getting pointless... but since you asked, the only thing most audio / visual macbook or 12" powerbook users want is an upgraded small form factor notebook mac which has increased graphics capabilities, solved the heat transfer problems of the previous models and still includes the connectivity of the previous models - or an increase in connectivity (FW800) if we're lucky (increasing connectivity seems a lot to ask after this discussion - but before the release it seemed like a logical progression).

...and unfortunately my poor old black macbook (which has faithfully been running logic pro since mid 2006 - mostly without problems) is pretty much 'had the ghost' (as my father would say) - battery dead (400+ cycles), monitor flickering like crazy (invertor?), fan running full speed even for the lightest loads (youtube, skype video !?)

yes i could pay to get all this repaired (and i've already de-gunked the fan or rather the heatsink) but i figured it would be best use of resources to park the old one on a power connector at my parents (an upgrade for them which they'd only use for email and looking at facebook pics of grandchildren) - and i would purchase an new one...

although we're yet to see how hot the new aluminium macbooks get

but unless Apple pulls a rabbit out of the hat and says that the GigE connector on the alu macbooks can be used for Firewire (and bi-lingual gigE / FW400 cables are available) then its wait & watch for me i guess...
post #756 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiMac View Post

You're an idiot. For all those who did not take the time to read through this thread...
You cannot buy an 'adaptor' that will run as effectively or as fast as FireWire.
Any operational functions that you may have had through FireWire will be lost.
No native Mac OS support.
USB is not a viable alternative for semi/pro audio/video work.

I agree absolutely with you. These are really useless comments!!! And I agree also, that's not very smart to leave something without an alternative!!! And don't tell me that FW 400 is a luxury, it's simple essential.
post #757 of 1657
Everyone stop comparing this to the loss of the Floppy Drive, this is NOTHING like the loss of a floppy drive, Floppy drive technology was the inferior specification, I cried no tears when floppies went away, in this case however, FireWire is Still the Superior technology, and dropping it with no logical explanation makes no sense, especially in a $1300 laptop.
post #758 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by roehlstation View Post

Everyone stop comparing this to the loss of the Floppy Drive, this is NOTHING like the loss of a floppy drive, Floppy drive technology was the inferior specification, I cried no tears when floppies went away, in this case however, FireWire is Still the Superior technology, and dropping it with no logical explanation makes no sense, especially in a $1300 laptop.

Inferior to having nothing? It's quite comparable as they were not replaced with another writable media right away. The iMacs only had a CD reader, not a writer.

Also, the MacBook Pros were given an inferior SL-DVD burner instead of the DL-DVD burners that the PowerBooks before them had. And, the ExpressCard addition to the MBP over the PB means all your PCMCIA cards were useless and even if you wanted to buy new ones you couldn't, because they didn't exist.
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #759 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by dposxfan View Post

Don't remove an old technology until you have a better one to replace it.

There are 20 pages of examples of Apple removing one technology and replacing it with a less usable one. FW400 wasn't even close to the first, and I'm sure it won't be the be last. They don't change their casing mid stream, so the ports you have now are what you'll have for the next 3 years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dposxfan View Post

Then why the higher prices and less connectivity(FW) features for the new machines? Do more than pretty packaging to try to justify the cost, add features to offset the price.

USing your argument, then Panasonic ToughBooks should be cheap, since they use older components with lower performance. Yet, they cost more than comparable machines. Could it be that the production and build quality of a product is a consideration for pricing? What about the materials used? Does glass, aluminium, and being environmentally conscious not cost more than non-biodegradable injection molded plastic case? What about the parts being used? Are you comparing what can go into a 2" notebook with can go into a <1" notebook?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #760 of 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Inferior to having nothing? It's quite comparable as they were not replaced with another writable media right away.

We can blame that one on Jobs, by God... ever since the first NeXT cube with a 128mb MO drive and Jobs wanted everyone to carry their life around in their backpack.

Unfortunately, the ubiquitous 3.5" floppy is not dead... at my house we needed a USB-based floppy drive up until a couple months ago as my wife's $4800 sewing machine used a floppy disk as the only transport mechanism for moving designs from computer to it (hell, the one it replaced used a freakin' serial cable!) The $8000 new model replacement sewing machine finally has a USB port so you can use memory sticks. (And people think MacBooks are too expensive...)
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