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Due next from Apple: refreshed 20- and 24-inch iMacs - Page 2

post #41 of 184
10/17/08 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by emoney35 View Post

I agree that a price drop would make it nearly "unstoppable", or at least a very big threat to the rest of the computer world. BUT, I wouldn't get your hopes up. There were tons of rumors that the new entry level Macbook was going to have a price drop, when in fact it actually went up! And don't give me this crap that the plastic Macbook dropped $100...that was not what the consumor had in mind when talking about an "entry level price drop".

Wasn't much of the news reporting wrong also- that this was the first time Apple had a laptop under $1,000? Didn't that occur years ago with the iBook G3 or G4 if I remember correctly?
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post #42 of 184
10/17/08 at 5:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

The first generation Mac Pro was introduced in August 2006 and didn't change specs or price until it was replaced in January 2008. That's 17 months.

The 8-core mac pro was introduced in April 2007. Keeping my fingers crossed for an update soon.
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post #43 of 184
10/17/08 at 6:11pm
I'm pissed I just bought an iMac today...should've waited..
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post #44 of 184
10/17/08 at 6:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

But really- like what would the number of actual iMac users that would use that as opposed to a fire wire port? Do you think it's widely used?

I would use Extended Desktop in a high end iMac.

I currently have a 3x LCD monitor Extended Desktop set up on my Dual Core Power Mac G5 and only have my iSight plugged into the FW400 port and my 3G iPod plugged into the FW800 port on the back. If I had a high end iMac with iSight already and then just switch my 3G iPod over to USB I have nothing in my set up to use FW for.

To the others that are asking me what is wrong with the Cheese Grater G5 tower? I'm just tired of it. Maybe it's because I own one and use another one at work, but it is stale and boring now after everything else has had updates. Back in the day, the PowerMac was the flagship for new designs from Apple. Those days are long gone now. I just want a fricking update to the look.

Sure the mini hasn't changed looks since introduction but the mini is not a huge seller for Apple and I could see them discontinuing it after MacWorld. It was meant to be a "Switchers" type of Mac with a BYO keyboard, mouse and monitor. In today's world the laptop is King so for $999 you can get a pretty good Mac with a fairly decent 13" widescreen. If you bought a mini today it would cost you that much to include a keyboard, mouse and screen. Besides, what are kids most wanting to have to be a "cool kid"? Apple products. How is anyone going to know they are a "cool kid" if their Mac is sitting on a desk at home? They are not. So these kids are going to buy MacBooks and then sit at Starbucks and Panera Bread where everyone will see the blazing Apple logo.

Think about it, don't you get a slight flutter of kinship when you see someone sitting there with a Mac laptop?
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post #45 of 184
10/17/08 at 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Wasn't much of the news reporting wrong also- that this was the first time Apple had a laptop under $1,000? Didn't that occur years ago with the iBook G3 or G4 if I remember correctly?

Yup! The white G3 iBooks were $999 for a long time.
That's been bothering me too about the bad reporting. Just go to Everymac.com and they will tell you release pricing from back in the day..... and anything else you want to know.
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post #46 of 184
10/17/08 at 6:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashmanBurgess View Post

By switching, you mean buying a cheaply built PC with generic parts that you will end up buying again in less than a year. I'm so tired of everyone bitching that Macs cost so much. They do NOT cost more than an equally equipped PC. Often they are (part for part) cheaper. Do your homework.


I'm so tired of fan boys who think that their needs are universal and that anyone who doesn't need what they need is uninformed. I'm tired of apologists for Apple not recognizing that Apple has a glaring hole you could drive a truck through in their product line up that anyone with half a brain can see. I'm old as dirt and literally have used almost every major generation of Macs since the first Mac. I haven't been able too afford every one personally, but I've used just about every Mac model through employers over the years and I need a machine at home as well. I buy my personal machines when I can afford them. Unless you're as old as I am and have been using Macs since 1984, I wouldn't be surprised if I've forgotten more about the various incarnations of the Mac than you've ever known.

Who are you to assume I haven't done my homework?

Again, I've been using macs since there have been Macs. I've been an Art director, Designer, Illustrator, and Animator for over 20 years and here is what I know about what I need as an Apple customer:


----
I know what I can afford and what I can't afford.

----
I know what I need and what I have to live without.

----
I know that I use and need almost every major print, web, and animation software that Adobe puts out plus various other 3D and multimedia aps to do my job.

----
I know that I need to spend somewhere around $1500 -$ 2000 bucks every year to year and a half to upgrade my software to keep up with what my clients use and need me to use.

----
I know that I need to buy an ink-jet printer capable of Super A3 (13"x19") like it or not every 3 of 4 years because they usually stop working after that.

----
I know that I can't afford to keep buying towers when they're always more than I need and the money it costs me initially keeps me from being able to buy a new machine when I need it because the old one cost me more than I could afford when I bought it.

----
I know that I can't use a glossy screened iMac because working with one is like trying to see through a window into a dark room from the outside on a sunny day and that makes my head feel like it's going to explode after a half hour or so of struggling to see around the reflection.

----
I know that I can spend less money and get a better monitor more suitable for professional design from someone other than Apple rather than using their overpriced glossy monitors they are now selling.

----
I know that the PPC will not run the software I need it to in the near future, so I'll need a new computer.

----
I know that I can't continue to spend 3-4 grand every 3-4 years PLUS maintain the software I need.

----
I know that I don't need, nor can continue to pay for all the power, 4 hard-drive bays, 2 optical slots, or more PCI slots, etc. than I can use that come with the tower whether I want them or not.

----
I know that although feature for feature, the Mac Pro is comparatively priced to a similarly priced Windows uber-workstation, that I can no longer afford an uber workstation be it Mac or PC.

----
I know that the iMac is not useable for me. I know that I need a headless computer that allows me to choose the monitor I need and that isn't tricked out with more than I need or can afford.

----
I know that I would love more than anything for my next machine to be yet another Mac since I have been a loyal paying customer of Apple's since forever.

----
I know that over the years as a loyal Apple customer, I've talked more friends, relatives, Graphic Design Departments, employers, and clients into buying macs than most Apple salesman working at your local Apple store

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I know, however that if Apple stops making machines that I can use or afford, that I will have to make the decision of whether or not to shell out the cost to switch my software over to windows (as much as I hate windows) so that in the long run I can continue to update my software (which I have no choice to do) AND hardware when I need it because Apple is not offering a mid range computer priced at a point that will allow me to do so.

----
What do you know?
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post #47 of 184
10/17/08 at 6:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Virtually all computers will come with DisplayPort within a few years. DisplayPort will replace DVI as effectively as DVI replaced VGA.

Where is your proof of this? or are you just pulling things out your thin air?
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post #48 of 184
10/17/08 at 7:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Would an iMac with a optional Bluray drive be to much to ask for? \

Who needs a 'bag of hurt'?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #49 of 184
10/17/08 at 7:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Who needs a 'bag of hurt'?

Dude, the bag o' hurt was waiting with anticipation for the new MBs, ready to buy one, and having legacy FW gear.

That's a bag o' hurt.
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post #50 of 184
10/17/08 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Who needs a 'bag of hurt'?

Please oh please, Santa Steve - what did I do this year to deserve "a bag of dirt- I mean hurt"?
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post #51 of 184
10/17/08 at 7:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Dude, the bag o' hurt was waiting with anticipation for the new MBs, ready to buy one, and having legacy FW gear.

That's a bag o' hurt.

No Dude "the bag of hurt" was waiting with anticipation for the new MAcBook under$1,000 only to get the old stale one for $999!
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post #52 of 184
10/17/08 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

No Dude "the bag of hurt" was waiting with anticipation for the new MAcBook under$1,000 only to get the old stale one for $999!

Yeah that somehow hasn't been appreciated that much.

Maybe Steve took FW off the MB so that people would be preoccupied with that and not realize that the sub $1000 Mac laptop was just clearance merchandise.

What will disappear quicker, the mini or the $999 plastic MB ? Might make for a nice poll.
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post #53 of 184
10/17/08 at 7:48pm
Support for 8GB of memory.

I find that 4GB is not quite enough when running Adobe's CS3 and VMWare;s Fusion, plus all the other apps I normally have open.
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post #54 of 184
10/17/08 at 7:53pm
So what are they going to announce at MacWorld? Not mew 'books, iMacs, or iPods. Probably not a new phone. I'm guessing Apple TV and iWork/iLife will get some love. Mac Pro refresh, but nothing that really makes a splash.

In all the hubub about "the brick," new MacBooks, where did the "push" notification service for iPhone apps go? Wasn't is supposed to be here in September? Apparently, the reality distortion field has made everyone forget about it...
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post #55 of 184
10/17/08 at 7:56pm
Sad but true.

Trying to put a finger on why isn't easy but I think a big component there is the issue of serviceability. That is DIY upgrades and repairs. The other half of the equation is that of portability which is worth giving up some servicability for. Cost doesn't jive either as a desktop should be cheaper than a portable.

Could Apple change my mind with a newly designed iMac. Frankly I doubt it. I'd go for a new Mini or Maxi before going that route. Yeah the current ones are not ideal for servicing either but they are flexible. There is always the potential though and one thing that Apple could do is make most of the parts accessibly from the rear of the housing. The big fear here of course is their reluctance to mar up the back panel with seams.

Again it is an issue of form winning over function. It is truely a shame as many of us really like MacOS and the features it offers up. Sometimes though it makes good sense to run it on a utility box. This really should be a concept roles into all new iMac and Mini upgrades, the idea that many of Apples customers would be better served by flexible utility machines. The question is can Apple make the bold moves required to innovate on these new platforms?
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post #56 of 184
10/17/08 at 8:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualZone View Post

Let me be the first to ask. What about the Mac Minis? I see no mention of them.

Yeah, those are a bit long-in-the-tooth. Dell mini desktops are more pleasing to look at and have better hardware features.

Apple should merge the Mac Mini with the AppleTV with a blu-ray player built-in. Instead of shipping a keyboard with it Apple could either a) sell separately a remote that looks like an iPod Touch to be the wireless keyboard and remote control or b) give the option for iPod Touch and iPhone users ability to wirelessly control the AppleTV via bluetooth.

The new iMac should be easier to customize and maintain. Also blu-ray in the iMac and the ability to use the iMac as an HD television would be handy. Jobs may have poo-poo'd blu-ray but don't believe him. He's done that to previous tech and then turned around and other the previously poo-poo'd tech. I'd buy an iMac if I could plug-in the cable outlet and watch cable television on it as well as watch blu-ray movies.
Tory Hagen
Break the Wedge!
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Tory Hagen
Break the Wedge!
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post #57 of 184
10/17/08 at 8:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by macosxp View Post

The new iMacs are also almost certainly going to incorporate LED backlighting seeing as Apple just announced a 24" LED display and made LED standard for their MacBooks.

LED backlighting, improved nvidia graphics, and hopefully one or two other nice surprises and a price drop will make the iMac UNSTOPPABLE!

Oh and in the world of impossible hopes, A MULTI-TOUCH SCREEN FOR GOODNESS SAKES OR SOME KIND OF MULTI TOUCH MOUSE REPLACEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I want Apple to release a 30' LED iMac quad-core with a new complementary 30' LED Cinema Display! The ports on the back... I'll let you guys take a whack at it.
When a company stops chasing profit and start chasing the betterment of their products, services, workforce, and customers, that will be the most valuable company in the world.
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When a company stops chasing profit and start chasing the betterment of their products, services, workforce, and customers, that will be the most valuable company in the world.
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post #58 of 184
10/17/08 at 8:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Would an iMac with a optional Bluray drive be to much to ask for? \

Steve said, "Yes."
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post #59 of 184
10/17/08 at 8:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Sad but true.

Again it is an issue of form winning over function. It is truely a shame as many of us really like MacOS and the features it offers up. Sometimes though it makes good sense to run it on a utility box. This really should be a concept roles into all new iMac and Mini upgrades, the idea that many of Apples customers would be better served by flexible utility machines. The question is can Apple make the bold moves required to innovate on these new platforms?

This is the flaw in the imac. It's essentially a vertical laptop anchored to a desk. It's appeal is footprint and price. Price only because as Mac's go, it's a desktop that doesn't cost as much as a Mac Pro. Price is high for what you get. Put the guts in a more practical but still small horizontal format. Divorce if from the built in monitor (really a bad idea if you weigh the merits of a computer and a monitor connected like Siamese twins). The iMac has the shortcomings of a laptop and missing the power of a desktop crammed into a bizarre hybrid that doesn't use the best of both. WTF? Lose the built in monitor, make the guts accessiblenow you have the computer everyone wants. I have no idea why apple hasn't done this. Remember the IIci? Take that format which today's technology could make considerably thinner and smaller, there you have itgold for Apple share holders and customers alike.
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post #60 of 184
10/17/08 at 8:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

No Dude "the bag of hurt" was waiting with anticipation for the new MAcBook under$1,000 only to get the old stale one for $999!

The "old stale one" rocks!

Plus, the SuperDrive is included!

And it's got FireWire!
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post #61 of 184
10/17/08 at 8:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Or give it light and make the whole face black? Get rid of the raccoon look please.
Answer me someone please- why a 24" iMac needs a display port?

Why does a MacBook need FireWire? Because people will want it and use it, no matter how few.
When a company stops chasing profit and start chasing the betterment of their products, services, workforce, and customers, that will be the most valuable company in the world.
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When a company stops chasing profit and start chasing the betterment of their products, services, workforce, and customers, that will be the most valuable company in the world.
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post #62 of 184
10/17/08 at 8:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverpraxis View Post

Why does a MacBook need FireWire? Because people will want it and use it, no matter how few.

There are uses for videographers who need portability and access to vid cams or high-speed large capacity storage (think corporate events or trade shows that are documented on the fly and need fast transfer, a bit of quick down and dirty editing, and disc of video generated on the spot for techs to shuffle off for onsite duplication or attendees to walk away with).
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post #63 of 184
10/17/08 at 8:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

I'll second that. The bulk is what puts us off putting them into our studios. That and the way over the top price and poor choice of monitors to go with it.

Maybe you could get a studio that's bigger than a closet?

There's only so much that can be removed from the Mac pro to make it smaller, before it just becomes a bulky version of what's in an iMac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Or give it light and make the whole face black? Get rid of the raccoon look please.
Answer me someone please- why a 24" iMac needs a display port?

Dual head is nice. Also, in a classroom setup, it would need a link to the projector.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Virtually all computers will come with DisplayPort within a few years. DisplayPort will replace DVI as effectively as DVI replaced VGA.

Oddly enough, everything seems to still have VGA or VGA compatibility. I have not seen a computer display other than Apple's that didn't offer it. I would expect that DVI have a a life approaching that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevenmrgan View Post

I'm not sure what exactly you're asking... The iMac's front plate is obviously carved from a single piece of aluminum, but there's nothing about that that would "carry over" to the unibody. The novel feature of the unibody design is that there is no internal frame structurally supporting the body of the notebook; the outside plate *is* the frame.

That's not the case with the iMac, and there's not that much need to apply the unibody blueprint to it either. It's not a portable computer subject to constant movement and pressure.

So, long story short, the iMac just has a single-piece outside, but still uses a more traditional internal frame.

I'm thinking more of the fact that it's a hollowed out block, involving a heck of a lot of material, it seems to be pretty inefficient if they actually did it that way, melting and extruding a lot of material, most of which is only going to have to be melted and re-extruded. It seems like they could have saved themselves a lot by sintering or casting, then machining.
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post #64 of 184
10/17/08 at 8:55pm
My predictions:

The new iMac will be super easy to upgrade. The 20" one is essentially Macbook in iMac packaging - no Firewire. The 24" one is Macbook Pro in iMac packaging - has Firewire, has ExpressCard/34 slot (I hope).

Mac Mini will be refreshed - it will be essentially Macbook in Mac Mini packaging (no Firewire).
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post #65 of 184
10/17/08 at 8:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Maybe you could get a studio that's bigger than a closet?

Ever heard of freelancing? All you need is the right computer, a home office, and talent (and of course luck and connections).

Let's say you're the lucky artist who can combine artistry, a brain for complex software, and can find a niche market3D artist. Work at home in your 3rd bedroom and enjoy your spouse's health insurance. You want the power of the tower but small.
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post #66 of 184
10/17/08 at 9:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Virtually all computers will come with DisplayPort within a few years. DisplayPort will replace DVI as effectively as DVI replaced VGA.

Will it?

There is no Mini DisplayPort -> DisplayPort adapter or cable. There are a few monitors out there with DisplayPort connectors, but I can't use my new MacBook Pro with them unless I go back to DVI or VGA... which requires $30-$100 adapter.

You can't claim to have moved to an open industry standard (never mind that Mini DisplayPort is only a proposed addition to the DisplayPort standard - think pre-N routers), then require people to buy an adapter for it! It's nothing but a money grab right now. Hell, you can't even use their new 24" monitor with anything but a new MacBook or MacBook Pro... talk about a limited market!

I wish they would've just stuck with the standard dual-link DVI jack on the side like the old MBPs had - that was a selling point, not just a feature. Or even a truly standard DisplayPort jack would've been better.
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post #67 of 184
10/17/08 at 10:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbert View Post

Will it?

There is no Mini DisplayPort -> DisplayPort adapter or cable. There are a few monitors out there with DisplayPort connectors, but I can't use my new MacBook Pro with them unless I go back to DVI or VGA... which requires $30-$100 adapter.

You can't claim to have moved to an open industry standard (never mind that Mini DisplayPort is only a proposed addition to the DisplayPort standard - think pre-N routers), then require people to buy an adapter for it! It's nothing but a money grab right now. Hell, you can't even use their new 24" monitor with anything but a new MacBook or MacBook Pro... talk about a limited market!

I wish they would've just stuck with the standard dual-link DVI jack on the side like the old MBPs had - that was a selling point, not just a feature. Or even a truly standard DisplayPort jack would've been better.

It will, and should, but it will take a good 2-4 years.
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post #68 of 184
10/17/08 at 10:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

It will, and should, but it will take a good 2-4 years.

That's a very long time to wait in technology terms.
I doubt I would still have this video-out crippled laptop then.
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post #69 of 184
10/17/08 at 11:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

I'm so tired of fan boys who think that their needs are universal and that anyone who doesn't need what they need is uninformed. I'm tired of apologists for Apple not recognizing that Apple has a glaring hole you could drive a truck through in their product line up that anyone with half a brain can see. I'm old as dirt and literally have used almost every major generation of Macs since the first Mac. I haven't been able too afford every one personally, but I've used just about every Mac model through employers over the years and I need a machine at home as well. I buy my personal machines when I can afford them. Unless you're as old as I am and have been using Macs since 1984, I wouldn't be surprised if I've forgotten more about the various incarnations of the Mac than you've ever known.

Who are you to assume I haven't done my homework?

Again, I've been using macs since there have been Macs. I've been an Art director, Designer, Illustrator, and Animator for over 20 years and here is what I know about what I need as an Apple customer:


----
I know what I can afford and what I can't afford.

----
I know what I need and what I have to live without.

----
I know that I use and need almost every major print, web, and animation software that Adobe puts out plus various other 3D and multimedia aps to do my job.

----
I know that I need to spend somewhere around $1500 -$ 2000 bucks every year to year and a half to upgrade my software to keep up with what my clients use and need me to use.

----
I know that I need to buy an ink-jet printer capable of Super A3 (13"x19") like it or not every 3 of 4 years because they usually stop working after that.

----
I know that I can't afford to keep buying towers when they're always more than I need and the money it costs me initially keeps me from being able to buy a new machine when I need it because the old one cost me more than I could afford when I bought it.

----
I know that I can't use a glossy screened iMac because working with one is like trying to see through a window into a dark room from the outside on a sunny day and that makes my head feel like it's going to explode after a half hour or so of struggling to see around the reflection.

----
I know that I can spend less money and get a better monitor more suitable for professional design from someone other than Apple rather than using their overpriced glossy monitors they are now selling.

----
I know that the PPC will not run the software I need it to in the near future, so I'll need a new computer.

----
I know that I can't continue to spend 3-4 grand every 3-4 years PLUS maintain the software I need.

----
I know that I don't need, nor can continue to pay for all the power, 4 hard-drive bays, 2 optical slots, or more PCI slots, etc. than I can use that come with the tower whether I want them or not.

----
I know that although feature for feature, the Mac Pro is comparatively priced to a similarly priced Windows uber-workstation, that I can no longer afford an uber workstation be it Mac or PC.

----
I know that the iMac is not useable for me. I know that I need a headless computer that allows me to choose the monitor I need and that isn't tricked out with more than I need or can afford.

----
I know that I would love more than anything for my next machine to be yet another Mac since I have been a loyal paying customer of Apple's since forever.

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I know that over the years as a loyal Apple customer, I've talked more friends, relatives, Graphic Design Departments, employers, and clients into buying macs than most Apple salesman working at your local Apple store

----
I know, however that if Apple stops making machines that I can use or afford, that I will have to make the decision of whether or not to shell out the cost to switch my software over to windows (as much as I hate windows) so that in the long run I can continue to update my software (which I have no choice to do) AND hardware when I need it because Apple is not offering a mid range computer priced at a point that will allow me to do so.

----
What do you know?

I know that you're as old as I am, we have the same profession, working issues and experiences, and that you're dead on in all your business decisions and assessments.

I will tell you this right now though, DO NOT move over to Windows... because I did do that for while... (I'm back on the Apple cart for 3 years now), and it was literally the biggest waste of my time, energy, and nerves ever! My productivity dropped at least 30% only due to maintenance of Windows... which you MUST do... no if, when or but(t)s about it.

My advice old colleague: 1) keep that tower a little longer, it will run for at least 2-3, up to 5 years (or much longer!); 2) look into processor upgrades, RAM, video cards, etc. to give ya that extra speed boost every year or so; 3) calm down a bit, I feel your pain in this industry (if that helps at all?)....4) if everything I've suggested doesn't soothe or help, take my advice on this: definitely don't forget the Sunscreen! (to quote a famous speech and song... pun intended)

PS: lemme guess, you're just having a bad day because a client dropped off a logo made in CorelDraw, with 3 rainbow gradients in different directions, 4 obscure, utterly ugly non-complimentary fonts, and 2 embedded images, 1 a found 72dpi GIF from the net, the other a 25mb BMP Photopaint disaster (naturally the GIF is the largest sized image in the design!)... and now ya have to "fix" it without changing it's overall appearance, and plug it into a brochure for Monday. Been there... done that... not yet though, so I'm off the boards 'til Sunday night earliest.

Smile... it's the only thing left to do for a Sado-Maso-Design-Whore (TM Pending).
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #70 of 184
10/17/08 at 11:56pm
I think, you need to either switch to PC, or scale/focus your business accordingly so that you can handle enough projects based on your Mac hardware and software upgrade cycle. I know, it's not bloody easy. I've been there before. That's why I moved into the sales side of selling Apple and 3rd party related hard/software/solutions/etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

I'm so tired of fan boys who think that their needs are universal and that anyone who doesn't need what they need is uninformed. I'm tired of apologists for Apple not recognizing that Apple has a glaring hole you could drive a truck through in their product line up that anyone with half a brain can see. I'm old as dirt and literally have used almost every major generation of Macs since the first Mac. I haven't been able too afford every one personally, but I've used just about every Mac model through employers over the years and I need a machine at home as well. I buy my personal machines when I can afford them. Unless you're as old as I am and have been using Macs since 1984, I wouldn't be surprised if I've forgotten more about the various incarnations of the Mac than you've ever known.

Who are you to assume I haven't done my homework?

Again, I've been using macs since there have been Macs. I've been an Art director, Designer, Illustrator, and Animator for over 20 years and here is what I know about what I need as an Apple customer:


----
I know what I can afford and what I can't afford.

----
I know what I need and what I have to live without.

----
I know that I use and need almost every major print, web, and animation software that Adobe puts out plus various other 3D and multimedia aps to do my job.

----
I know that I need to spend somewhere around $1500 -$ 2000 bucks every year to year and a half to upgrade my software to keep up with what my clients use and need me to use.

----
I know that I need to buy an ink-jet printer capable of Super A3 (13"x19") like it or not every 3 of 4 years because they usually stop working after that.

----
I know that I can't afford to keep buying towers when they're always more than I need and the money it costs me initially keeps me from being able to buy a new machine when I need it because the old one cost me more than I could afford when I bought it.

----
I know that I can't use a glossy screened iMac because working with one is like trying to see through a window into a dark room from the outside on a sunny day and that makes my head feel like it's going to explode after a half hour or so of struggling to see around the reflection.

----
I know that I can spend less money and get a better monitor more suitable for professional design from someone other than Apple rather than using their overpriced glossy monitors they are now selling.

----
I know that the PPC will not run the software I need it to in the near future, so I'll need a new computer.

----
I know that I can't continue to spend 3-4 grand every 3-4 years PLUS maintain the software I need.

----
I know that I don't need, nor can continue to pay for all the power, 4 hard-drive bays, 2 optical slots, or more PCI slots, etc. than I can use that come with the tower whether I want them or not.

----
I know that although feature for feature, the Mac Pro is comparatively priced to a similarly priced Windows uber-workstation, that I can no longer afford an uber workstation be it Mac or PC.

----
I know that the iMac is not useable for me. I know that I need a headless computer that allows me to choose the monitor I need and that isn't tricked out with more than I need or can afford.

----
I know that I would love more than anything for my next machine to be yet another Mac since I have been a loyal paying customer of Apple's since forever.

----
I know that over the years as a loyal Apple customer, I've talked more friends, relatives, Graphic Design Departments, employers, and clients into buying macs than most Apple salesman working at your local Apple store

----
I know, however that if Apple stops making machines that I can use or afford, that I will have to make the decision of whether or not to shell out the cost to switch my software over to windows (as much as I hate windows) so that in the long run I can continue to update my software (which I have no choice to do) AND hardware when I need it because Apple is not offering a mid range computer priced at a point that will allow me to do so.

----
What do you know?
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post #71 of 184
10/18/08 at 12:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

PS: lemme guess, your just having a bad day because a client dropped off a logo made in CorelDraw, with 3 rainbow gradients in different directions, 4 obscure, utterly ugly non-complimentary fonts, and 2 embedded images, 1 a found 72dpi GIF from the net, the other a 25mb BMP Photopaint disaster (naturally the GIF is the largest sized image in the design!)... and now ya have to "fix" it without changing it's overall appearance, and plug it into a brochure for Monday. Been there... done that... not yet though, so I'm off the boards 'til Sunday night earliest.

Smile... it's the only thing left to do for a Sado-Maso-Design-Whore (TM Pending).

This is why I got out of design... Somedays, I really admire you guys and gals that can handle all this stuff. The painful, ugly stuff, not that award-winning, flashy portfolio material..

LOLs with the rainbow gradients. Client rainbow gradients FTW!
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post #72 of 184
10/18/08 at 12:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Not really. Since Apple has gone Intel or Nvidia parts it's actually easy to make the comparisons now and frankly it highlights the premium Apple charges.

It's likely the reason why Apple keynotes focus on how Green the product is or the manf process but rarely focuses on how their computers are advancing "computing"

Products like the Mini have been dying on the vine while Dell is picking up the mantle

http://www.dell.com/content/products...=19&l=en&s=dhs

And even the iMac is under siege

http://www.dell.com/content/products...n&s=dhs&~ck=mn

Software is keeping this platform alive..the hardware has sucked for years.

Those are fine and dandy machines for sure, but they don't work like a Mac does. There's something to be said about a machine you can take out of the box and plug in an ethernet cable and have it just work. Of all the Mac and PC users I know, not one Mac user has ever called me to help them hook up a printer, but almost every PC owner has had one problem or another. Stuff that works = Great, stuff that doesn't = frustration. I have a PC as well, and I love it for what it is, but I don't hook anything to it other than a keyboard and mouse (wireless) and even those give me problems from time to time. AND, the biggest PEAVE of all, my Mac can connect and transfer files to my PC, but it doesn't work the other way, WHY??? Because it's Windows Vista and that crap just doesn't work like a Mac does. I know these are little trivial things, but having used computers both Mac and PC for over 20 years now, these little things add up over time and wear on my patience.

And just for kicks while we are on the subject, show me a PC that has 8 processor cores running at 3.2GHz with a 500GB drive and a GeForce 8800 for less than $4600.
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post #73 of 184
10/18/08 at 12:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

My predictions:

The new iMac will be super easy to upgrade. The 20" one is essentially Macbook in iMac packaging - no Firewire. The 24" one is Macbook Pro in iMac packaging - has Firewire, has ExpressCard/34 slot (I hope).

Mac Mini will be refreshed - it will be essentially Macbook in Mac Mini packaging (no Firewire).

Nah...

Or maybe... I'm just hoping, hoping that there is at least *some* firewire on the iMac 20" !!! I mean, it's 20", for crying out loud!!

Apple's already opened up most of it's cans of whoopass with the iPhone 3G and the MacBook/Pro line, CinemaDisplay.

The current design of the iMac fits in nicely with the rest of the holiday lineup.

By end of November (yup, I think it is a few weeks away at least), the iMac will be updated, such that the design will be the same but the chipset/CPU is MacBook/Pro like you mention.

For the size of the 20" and 24", motherboard modifications will be hella easy in comparison, Apple just has to put in the new circuitry instead of "precision engineer" the motherboard.

iMac 20"
Same form factor and ports
2.4GHZ and 2.53GHZ
Nvidia 9400M (256MB Shared)
1GB DDR3 RAM (2.4GHZ) or 2GB DDR3 RAM (2.53GHZ)

iMac 24"
2.53GHZ and 2.8GHZ
Same form factor and ports
Nvidia 9400M + 9600M GT
(256MB VRAM and 512MB VRAM)

I want to use an iMac 20" as a Final Cut Studio 2 machine! Just for learning, I'm not making any Emmy-award winning TV shows or anything...

But... if the iMac 20" only has a 9400M integrated GPU... Then looks like I might get a MacBook.

Somebody needs to test FCS2 on the new MacBooks fully. Like I said, for learning uses. Though, back to the FireWire issue. *sigh*.

Ironically, I have an old white MacBook Core Duo that can be used to capture DV, and then transfer that to the new MacBook with 9400M to edit in FCS2.

For audio... USB devices, with low latency... Hmm...

I understand now the agitation among creative pros/prosumers about having everybody to use MacBook Pros.
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post #74 of 184
10/18/08 at 12:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashmanBurgess View Post

Those are fine and dandy machines for sure, but they don't work like a Mac does. There's something to be said about a machine you can take out of the box and plug in an ethernet cable and have it just work. Of all the Mac and PC users I know, not one Mac user has ever called me to help them hook up a printer, but almost every PC owner has had one problem or another. Stuff that works = Great, stuff that doesn't = frustration. I have a PC as well, and I love it for what it is, but I don't hook anything to it other than a keyboard and mouse (wireless) and even those give me problems from time to time. AND, the biggest PEAVE of all, my Mac can connect and transfer files to my PC, but it doesn't work the other way, WHY??? Because it's Windows Vista and that crap just doesn't work like a Mac does. I know these are little trivial things, but having used computers both Mac and PC for over 20 years now, these little things add up over time and wear on my patience.

And just for kicks while we are on the subject, show me a PC that has 8 processor cores running at 3.2GHz with a 500GB drive and a GeForce 8800 for less than $4600.

Yup, anybody that has used both knows that there is no comparison. Sure, use a PC if you really have to, but be very aware of its limitations, no matter how sexy and/or cheap it is.

The Mac Pros, even the PowerMac G5s, are still in wide, wide use, as they will be, for at least half a year, because, as you point out, the RAM and Cores.

At least 2 cores, load it up with 8GB or 16GB of RAM... 8 cores with 16GB of RAM, have you seen 3 VMWare WindowsXP sessions running concurrently in OS X Leopard??? Pretty impressive.

For PC-Windows gaming though, I would hand-build overclocked PCs from selected components, definitely using Nvidia GPUs and Nvidia chipsets.

Still, installing Windows, drivers, games, re-installing Windows, drivers, games, is extremely tedious.

OK the coffee is starting to wear off, I'm off for tea.
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post #75 of 184
10/18/08 at 12:33am
Nice. The new Macbooks are slightly more than I would like to pay (in Australia) so I might wait and see what they do with the iMac.
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post #76 of 184
10/18/08 at 1:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

This is why I got out of design... Somedays, I really admire you guys and gals that can handle all this stuff. The painful, ugly stuff, not that award-winning, flashy portfolio material..

LOLs with the rainbow gradients. Client rainbow gradients FTW!

Glad to have made someone laugh... it's sure hard to from my side looking at the F-ugly in AI right now. Makes me actually take back my comments about glossy screens on another thread here, and ruin my Eizo with some spray gloss. My ugly mug is better than staring at this stuff and wondering what to do!!!! GAWD I could just friggin' scream

OKay...did that and freaked my cat... I feel better now 'cause I can do something else, like coax him outa the tree for the next hour

PS: so what ya do now? HELP!
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #77 of 184
10/18/08 at 2:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

Virtually all computers will come with DisplayPort within a few years. DisplayPort will replace DVI as effectively as DVI replaced VGA.

So not very effectively? While I prefer DVI myself, there are still a bunch of monitors coming out now with only VGA, and many computers only include it as well, or include both.

Displayport has been around for a while, and while it does have its benefits, I'm not completely sold on it. I could easily see DVI staying around for a while, and HDMI (despite its limitiations) staying in as well.
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post #78 of 184
10/18/08 at 2:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

I'm so tired of fan boys who think that their needs are universal and that anyone who doesn't need what they need is uninformed. I'm tired of apologists for Apple not recognizing that Apple has a glaring hole you could drive a truck through in their product line up that anyone with half a brain can see. I'm old as dirt and literally have used almost every major generation of Macs since the first Mac.

+1 to everything you said.

Been a Mac user since 1984, and am not happy with much of what Apple is doing right now. An iMac without that horrible mirror display would make 80% of designers buy it instead of the ridiculously overpriced Pro - which is the very reason for the stupid display, of course.

Right now, I'll stay with my MBP and my 3 ACDs, so instead of sending my money to Apple (I'd buy a non-glossy 15" tricked-out MBP in a second, together with a non-glossy 3GHz iMac) I'll be using it elsewhere. That's what too much corporate greed and self-pleased product decisions do, sometimes.
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post #79 of 184
10/18/08 at 2:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

I'm so tired of fan boys who think that their needs are universal and that anyone who doesn't need what they need is uninformed. I'm tired of apologists for Apple not recognizing that Apple has a glaring hole you could drive a truck through in their product line up that anyone with half a brain can see. I'm old as dirt and literally have used almost every major generation of Macs since the first Mac. I haven't been able too afford every one personally, but I've used just about every Mac model through employers over the years and I need a machine at home as well. I buy my personal machines when I can afford them. Unless you're as old as I am and have been using Macs since 1984, I wouldn't be surprised if I've forgotten more about the various incarnations of the Mac than you've ever known.

Who are you to assume I haven't done my homework?

Again, I've been using macs since there have been Macs. I've been an Art director, Designer, Illustrator, and Animator for over 20 years and here is what I know about what I need as an Apple customer:


----
I know what I can afford and what I can't afford.

----
I know what I need and what I have to live without.

----
I know that I use and need almost every major print, web, and animation software that Adobe puts out plus various other 3D and multimedia aps to do my job.

----
I know that I need to spend somewhere around $1500 -$ 2000 bucks every year to year and a half to upgrade my software to keep up with what my clients use and need me to use.

----
I know that I need to buy an ink-jet printer capable of Super A3 (13"x19") like it or not every 3 of 4 years because they usually stop working after that.

----
I know that I can't afford to keep buying towers when they're always more than I need and the money it costs me initially keeps me from being able to buy a new machine when I need it because the old one cost me more than I could afford when I bought it.

----
I know that I can't use a glossy screened iMac because working with one is like trying to see through a window into a dark room from the outside on a sunny day and that makes my head feel like it's going to explode after a half hour or so of struggling to see around the reflection.

----
I know that I can spend less money and get a better monitor more suitable for professional design from someone other than Apple rather than using their overpriced glossy monitors they are now selling.

----
I know that the PPC will not run the software I need it to in the near future, so I'll need a new computer.

----
I know that I can't continue to spend 3-4 grand every 3-4 years PLUS maintain the software I need.

----
I know that I don't need, nor can continue to pay for all the power, 4 hard-drive bays, 2 optical slots, or more PCI slots, etc. than I can use that come with the tower whether I want them or not.

----
I know that although feature for feature, the Mac Pro is comparatively priced to a similarly priced Windows uber-workstation, that I can no longer afford an uber workstation be it Mac or PC.

----
I know that the iMac is not useable for me. I know that I need a headless computer that allows me to choose the monitor I need and that isn't tricked out with more than I need or can afford.

----
I know that I would love more than anything for my next machine to be yet another Mac since I have been a loyal paying customer of Apple's since forever.

----
I know that over the years as a loyal Apple customer, I've talked more friends, relatives, Graphic Design Departments, employers, and clients into buying macs than most Apple salesman working at your local Apple store

----
I know, however that if Apple stops making machines that I can use or afford, that I will have to make the decision of whether or not to shell out the cost to switch my software over to windows (as much as I hate windows) so that in the long run I can continue to update my software (which I have no choice to do) AND hardware when I need it because Apple is not offering a mid range computer priced at a point that will allow me to do so.

----
What do you know?

I know you don't want to get into a pissing match with me, I know that much. The idea that you've forgotten more than I've ever known about design software makes me giggle. Bring it on old man.
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post #80 of 184
10/18/08 at 2:44am
i posted this idea in another thread

but couldnt some of the components like the hard drive and memory be built into the stand of the imac, that would allow the easy swap outs on the hard drive (just remove a panel) and also security of data (take the hard drive out when you leave the office, carry it back home and pop it in your imac or external e-sata reader for mac pro at home and presto

but otherwise i can reason with the imac, having it all built in, i currently have a mac mini and the spaghetti junction of speaker, screen, two power cables and all of the other usb and firewires is a mess, but the fact i can now get a MBP and a 24' LED screen makes me want to get the MBP instead as i have a laptop and dual screen set up as a desktop all for roughly the same price as a iMac....

but PLEASE i need a new MOUSE or a new keyboard with a multitouch trackpad like the logitech one....
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