or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Notes of interest for Apple's Q4 2008 results call
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Notes of interest for Apple's Q4 2008 results call

post #1 of 51
Thread Starter 
Apple has just concluded its fiscal fourth quarter conference call which featured a surprise appearance by company chief executive Steve Jobs, who fielded questions on low cost PCs, the future of the iPhone, and the new netbook category of portables.

Apple said fourth quarter profit rose over 26 percent to $1.14 billion, or $1.26 per diluted share for the three-month period ended September 27th, 2008.

Apple regional business segments

Apple Americas accounted for 1,121,000 Mac shipments and $3.572B in revenues. These figures are up 16 percent and 22 percent year-over-year, respectively. Sequentially, shipments were down one percent with revenue up 4 percent.

Apple Europe accounted for 611,000 Mac shipments and $1.723B in revenues. Both these figures were up 22 percent and 29 percent year-over-year, and also climbed 6 and 5 percent sequentially.

Apple Japan accounted for just 78,000 Mac shipments and $320M in revenues, an increase of 8 and 25 percent year-over-year, but a decrease of 24 and 12 percent sequentially.

Apple's Asia Pacific (and FileMaker Inc), billed as "Other Segments," accounted for 205,000 Mac shipments and $562M in revenues. These figures are up by 32 percent and 27 percent compared to the same period a year ago. Sequentially, unit shipments are near-flat with declines of 1 and 2 percent each.

Apple's "Other Music Related Products and Services" segment accounted for $832M in revenue. The figure represents a 38 percent spike year-over-year but a more gradual climb of 2 percent versus the spring.

Apple's "Peripherals and Other Hardware" added $428M in revenue, representing a 24 percent increase year-over-year but dipping 2 percent sequentially.

Apple's "Software, Service and Other Sales" segment provided $549M in revenue, climbing 28 percent versus the same point in 2007 and 10 percent over the previous quarter.

Apple's Mac business

Apple sold 2.611 million Macs, which is more than the company has ever sold in a single quarter of its history.

Of those Macs, 936,000 were desktops and 1,675,000 were notebooks, which equates to modest year-over-year gains of 14 and 18 percent, respectively. Sequentially, notebook shipments grew at 8 percent, while desktops declined by 1 percent.

Macs accounted for less than half of Apple's total revenue at 45.9 percent. Nevertheless, Macs accounted for the largest slice of the company's sales.

Apple last week saw a "very, very strong launch" of new notebooks, according to Jobs, although the company separately notes that rumors and press leading up to the launch likely caused customers to delay their new Mac purchases until the new MacBooks were released. Apple is unsure how much the economy impacted Mac sales.

Over 90 percent of the new Mac notebooks now ship with LED backlights. They also represent the company's greenest products ever. "You'll hear more about this in the future," Jobs said.

The unibody MacBooks are primarily responsible for Apple's earlier low-margin guidance. September's iPod refresh also played a role in the guidance.

Jobs said netbooks still represent a "nascent category." He considers the iPhone a form of entrant to the netbook category as it performs many of the functions, just in a smaller form factor. That said, he noted that Apple hold some very "interesting ideas" in the netbook arena should the field evolve into a booming market segment.

A contraction in the educational market, particularly in California, hurt Mac sales. K-12 institution business was down during the quarter. However, sales have rebounded in October following the new MacBook launches.

Jobs dismissed a question of the possibility for tablets or other form factors for Macs and says he unfortunately can't talk about future products.

Apple ended the quarter with 3-4 weeks of channel inventory for Macs, slightly below its target of 4-5 weeks.

The company doesn't believe it can make a $500 computer without it being a "piece of junk" and won't build a computer at that spec as a result. It's not in Apple's DNA, Jobs said.

Market prices for aluminum have dropped 35 percent, for example, but that doesn't account for machining the metal into the finished product.

Jobs claims the cheap PC market isn't being created by the economic downturn; Apple would be "surprised" if large numbers of people moved to lower-cost computers during the period. The company "isn't tremendously worried."

There are significant backlogs on Apple's new products introduced last week, suggesting a high glut of orders. Apple is already making "bets" on demand.

Apple's Apple TV and iPhone businesses

Apple sold 6,892,000 iPhones during the quarter and earned about $806M from these and related products over the quarter; this is more than all previous quarters combined.

Apple has already surpassed its goal of selling 10 million iPhones in calendar 2008.

If revenue wasn't deferred over 24 months, the iPhone would have represented 39 percent of all of Apple's revenue for the quarter.

Combined with the Apple TV, deferred iPhone revenue rose to $5.8B, up from $3.8B.

A "significant" percentage of iPhone 3G units were sold internationally, Apple says. Many of these were to first-time iPhone owners, while RIM's BlackBerries largely went to upgrade customers.

Steve Jobs noted during the call that the size of the iPhone business is too large to ignore, and so the company has started to provide non-GAAP metrics so that analysts and industry follows can get a better grasp of Apple's performance each quarter relative to past quarters.

The iPhone beat RIM's BlackBerry shipments last quarter; RIM shipped 6.1 million handsets compared to Apple's near 6.9 million. Apple is now the third-largest mobile phone supplier in terms of revenue. Nokia and Samsung are first and second respectively while LG and Motorola are fourth and fifth.

Customers will download the 200 millionth app from the App Store tomorrow, with that figure being reached in just 102 days. There are over 5,500 apps available in 62 countries. "Competitors are scrambling to copy the App Store, but it's not easy," Jobs said.

Apple ended the quarter with iPhone inventory of less than 6 weeks for the 44 countries launched before August. At the end of the quarter, there were 2 million iPhones listed in inventory around the world, which Apple sees as just about right.

Apple TV is still just a "hobby", according to Jobs and will remain that way in 2009. He noted that many of the companies experimenting in the category have recently faded away and the economy isn't helping matters much in this regard.

In the long term, Apple will simply "have to be the best" to compete in a more cluttered 2009 smartphone market, Jobs adds. He said one of the company's goals is to avoid leaving a "price umbrella" underneath the iPhone for competitors to leverage.

"From what I've heard, Babe Ruth had only one home run. He just kept hitting it over and over again," said Jobs, responding to a question on whether Apple would fill out its iPhone line with various different models and prices. iPhone is a software platform and Apple doesn't want to do too much to complicate matters for developers.

Apple is confident that its year-over-year iPhone sales will be up significantly for the future, but the "crystal ball isn't working" for sequential predictions.

Apple's Retail business

Apple's retail stores combined to sell a record 596,000 Mac units and generate $1.718B in revenues during Apple's fourth fiscal quarter, marking yearly growth of 32 percent in units and 27 percent in revenue. Sequentially, retail sales were responsible for a 25 percent growth in units and 19 percent in revenue.

Over half of all Macs sold at Apple retail stores went to customers who never owned a Mac.

There were 31 new stores opened during the quarter, for a total of 247 stores -- Apple actually exceeded its retail opening plans by 5 stores.

With an average of 226 stores open in the quarter, about $7.6M was earned per store. There was $301M in segment margin.

About 42.7M people visited Apple's stores during the quarter, besting the company's old record of 38.4Â*million set in the first quarter of 2008.

No mention has been made of how many retail stores will open in 2009.

Apple said its new "start at home" iPhone buying process has reduced the time required to buy an iPhone at retail stores to just one minute longer than it takes to buy an iPod.

Apple's iPod and iTunes businesses

About 11,052,000 iPods were shipped this quarter, with the media players generating $1.678B in revenue. The unit shipments climbed 8 percent year-over-year while revenues rose by 3 percent. Sequential results were flat at 0 percent unit change and revenues down one percent.

The company sold the most iPods it has ever managed in a non-holiday quarter.

Apple has over 70 percent of the MP3 player market in the US, according to NPD. Share is also growing in Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Japan and Australia.

The company ended the quarter with 4-6 weeks of channel inventory, which is in line with expectations.

The financial side of Q4

Apple is now proving non-GAAP measures that it says show actual results; before GAAP accounting, the company would have generated $4.6B in gross margin during the quarter, $1B higher than the reported GAAP margin. Its net income would have been $2.4B before GAAP.

As mentioned, Apple is now accounting for non-GAAP figures to account for the disproportionate amount of iPhone revenue.

The tax rate was 28.2 percent, which was below guidance due to a higher than anticipated mix of foreign earnings.

Apple customers are more likely to delay their future Apple product purchases during this time of economic uncertainty rather than switch to competitors' offerings, according to Jobs, because his firm's customer base is unusually loyal.

He feels "really good" about the company's new lineup.

The company has $24.5B in the bank and zero debt, having added another $3.7B in cash during the quarter. During an economic downturn, that level of cash creates "extraordinary opportunities," according to Jobs.

Analysts are curious whether this means possible acquisitions. Jobs just repeated his observation that the cash creates "extraordinary opportunities." Apple may be shopping for strategic acquisitions.

Apple's next fiscal quarter (Q408)

Apple is targeting revenue of between $9B and $10B for its fiscal Q1 2009, and earnings of between $1.06 and $1.35 per diluted share.

Gross margins should be between 30 to 31 percent.

There's "a lot of prudence" in Apple's guidance.

Always a lot of nail-biting during October, which is "foggy" -- the company has yet to see exactly how well its shipment predictions will turn out. November is usually when sales take off.

Guidance is driven by the introductions of both the new notebooks and iPods. Apple confirms that the margin impact was from the notebooks and that it's working to push the costs downwards as it manufacturers more and more of the new systems.

Additional Coverage

Apple profits rise 26% on sales of 2.6M Macs, 6.8M iPhones
Steve Jobs on Apple's cash, NetBooks, Apple TV, and Cheap PCs
Apple iPhone 3G sales surpass RIM's Blackberry
iPhone App Store continues to exceed iTunes song sales growth
post #2 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple beat RIM's BlackBerry shipments last quarter; they shipped 6.1 million. Apple is now the third-largest mobile phone supplier in terms of revenue. Nokia and Samsung are first and second respectively while LG and Motorola are fourth and fifth.

Considering they have only one current product on the market (and one prvious product) don't they get an Academy award or a Pulitzer prize or something for this?
post #3 of 51
Here is a thought: 25B in the bank....Dell capitalization 25B....buy Dell, own corporate and consumer

Seriously though, if all they do is "weather the storm" with their 25B in this economic downturn, HUGE opportunity lost.
post #4 of 51
Up $10/share in after hours trading, and still climbing.
Guess the market is starving for someone who's performing and executing well for a change.
post #5 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by markb View Post

Here is a thought: 25B in the bank....Dell capitalization 25B....buy Dell, own corporate and consumer

Seriously though, if all they do is "weather the storm" with their 25B in this economic downturn, HUGE opportunity lost.

So you think you could do better than Apple in this environment? With all that money in the bank, they are doing the smart thing buy waiting it out and picking up the almost-dying companies (if they choose) for pennies on the dollar.
post #6 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by markb View Post

Here is a thought: 25B in the bank....Dell capitalization 25B....buy Dell, own corporate and consumer

Seriously though, if all they do is "weather the storm" with their 25B in this economic downturn, HUGE opportunity lost.

A business sector would be nice, but I don't see what buying Dell would do for Apple. Do they then continue to sell Windows and Linux, or do they sell OS X? They have the experience and knowledge, and nothing is stopping them from building a business machine with Windows. Do they continue to sell $400 machines filled with trialware to turn a small profit? I just don't see how buying Dell helps Apple in any way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Up $10/share in after hours trading, and still climbing.
Guess the market is starving for someone who's performing and executing well for a change.

After Hours closed at $102.21 +10.72 (11.72%). I was expecting a drop, per the norm.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #7 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

So you think you could do better than Apple in this environment? With all that money in the bank, they are doing the smart thing buy waiting it out and picking up the almost-dying companies (if they choose) for pennies on the dollar.

Having cash-on-hand is the best position they can be in at the moment.
Remember the anchor on the economy in general is that companies can't get their hands on lines of credit for things like investment, R&D, etc.
Apple doesn't have to worry about that... its essentially self-funding.
They'd be crazy to burn through their cash at this moment.
post #8 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Considering they have only one current product on the market (and one prvious product) don't they get an Academy award or a Pulitzer prize or something for this?

Oh, wait. They get a couple billion $$ instead...
post #9 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by markb View Post

Here is a thought: 25B in the bank....Dell capitalization 25B....buy Dell, own corporate and consumer

Seriously though, if all they do is "weather the storm" with their 25B in this economic downturn, HUGE opportunity lost.

Along the same lines they can almost buy RIM in cash. Not that they should.
post #10 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Having cash-on-hand is the best position they can be in at the moment.
Remember the anchor on the economy in general is that companies can't get their hands on lines of credit for things like investment, R&D, etc.
Apple doesn't have to worry about that... its essentially self-funding.
They'd be crazy to burn through their cash at this moment.

Indeed. It's only an "opportunity lost" if the goal of the company is to dominate the computer market and take over the other companies, a la Microsoft. Apple's goals are not those.

There is not much out there worth buying in the sense of actually adding to Apple's goal of making good products. The rumour of designing their own manufacturing facilities comes closest, all other aspects of their production chain are already under their control.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
Reply
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
Reply
post #11 of 51
So it's now official - 10 million iPhones already sold in 2008.
post #12 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Indeed. It's only an "opportunity lost" if the goal of the company is to dominate the computer market and take over the other companies, a la Microsoft. Apple's goals are not those.

There is not much out there worth buying in the sense of actually adding to Apple's goal of making good products. The rumour of designing their own manufacturing facilities comes closest, all other aspects of their production chain are already under their control.

Agree completely.

If spend on anything, then R&D on even better products for an even greater head-start in the recovery.

(Apple are not like MSFT trying to buy their way into a market that they failed to crack themselves.)

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

Reply

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

Reply
post #13 of 51
It's nice to see the stock go up - I about cried when I saw their guidance for Q1 EPS of $1.06 - $1.35 after the street had predicted $1.64 (or whatever) - does this mean that people will be ignoring apple's overly conservative estimates from now on and just pay attention to the obviously good data that has been coming out of the company for 15 of the last 16 quarters (to change the quote)?
post #14 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

After Hours closed at $102.21 +10.72 (11.72%). I was expecting a drop, per the norm.

This time the drop was before the news. Normally anticipation is very high and the stock climbs the days before. Then low guidance disappoints. This time fearful uncertainty, followed by relief. Investors aren't thrilled, but they sure are happy Apple isn't eating grass.
post #15 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


There is not much out there worth buying in the sense of actually adding to Apple's goal of making good products. The rumour of designing their own manufacturing facilities comes closest, all other aspects of their production chain are already under their control.

I'm thinking there are lots of teensy companies out there Apple could make use of. Or they could just build a chip fabrication plant for the PA Semi guys to play with

/Adrian
post #16 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post

Along the same lines they can almost buy RIM in cash. Not that they should.

Adobe's market cap is 15B. They could buy half of the company for say 10B (price would go up as they buy).

I really think as the fight btw MS and Apple heats up Apple needs a bargaining chip to keep MS for nixing Office. If Apple controls Photoshop MS would have to play nice on Office
post #17 of 51
One way it would make money.

Sell a $400 computer, load it with linux with a OS X "like" GUI. People who buys $400 computers don't know the difference or don't care.

Then buy a Game software company. Make the money on the games (sounds like x-box idiotology)

A label like "Micro$urf" would be a hit.


P.S.- Heard last mounth Dell was selling off their Manufacturing Plants. Is that going to happen?
post #18 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeNsteinNo View Post

One way it would make money.

Sell a $400 computer, load it with linux with a OS X "like" GUI. People who buys $400 computers don't know the difference or don't care.

1) Apple wants them to care and people are starting to care as they are depending on computers more every day.

2) How does a $400 computer running Linux make a profit? They lose the revenue from all the trialware that comes on it, they lose the sales from the vast majority that still want or need Windows in some form, the they have to make an "OS X "like" GUI" that will cost Apple money, and then confuse the user who try to install OS X software on the machine but it won't work because it's not actually OS X.

3) The only such purchase that makes any sense to me is buying Sun Microsystems, and even that has many concerns about how that helps Apple.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #19 of 51
No one cared to ask about the fate of the Mac Mini in the call??
post #20 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by sho38 View Post

No one cared to ask about the fate of the Mac Mini in the call??

I am surprised it was asked, but they would skirt around it anyway. I'd think that Apple would need some sort of headless machine and I do think the Mac Mini will be retired for a new headless Mac to be announced in January. Though not the elusive xMac that people want from Apple. Just an update to an Aluminium case, NVIDIA chipset and miniDP. Basically the new MB components.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #21 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by markb View Post

Here is a thought: 25B in the bank....Dell capitalization 25B....buy Dell, own corporate and consumer

Seriously though, if all they do is "weather the storm" with their 25B in this economic downturn, HUGE opportunity lost.

SJ just explained why Apple wouldn't make a $500.- computer. The operative word was 'JUNK'. Why then would they spend 25 billion on exactly that?

If they did it would be so depressing. I can hardly think of anything more dreary. I think the opportunities will come in the form of something far more interesting than a mere business opportunity. Can you imagine SJ's face if he unwrapped his xmas present and found DELL. It would be like giving your 16 year old a Transistor Radio instead of an iPod.

Apple loves to design quality products with great usability. Stuff that excites them. Don't you know?
post #22 of 51
I love what Jobs said about the one homerun hit over and over again regarding the iPhone. This really clarifies the how the iPhone was thought out. One model priced and positioned perfectly in the smart phone market. Streamlining your product line and sending a precise message is the key to Apples success.
post #23 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by markb View Post

Here is a thought: 25B in the bank....Dell capitalization 25B....buy Dell, own corporate and consumer ....

No no, they're saving up to buy Microsoft and have the world switch to OSX, to finally park the Windows OS in the museum.

... I think it was great to hear Jobs speak of the iPhone as a software platform that way, not wanting to confuse the developers (and consumers) with too many different models. That's the exact opposite to Nokia and the other guys who're trying to make one phone for each little target audience they can find a name for.
post #24 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryb View Post

I love what Jobs said about the one homerun hit over and over again regarding the iPhone. This really clarifies the how the iPhone was thought out. One model priced and positioned perfectly in the smart phone market. Streamlining your product line and sending a precise message is the key to Apples success.

But, but, but Balmer says that Apple should separate the iPhone HW and SW if they want a fighting chance in the smartphone market.
http://arstechnica.com/journals/appl...e-and-software
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #25 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by salmonstk View Post

Adobe's market cap is 15B. They could buy half of the company for say 10B (price would go up as they buy).

I really think as the fight btw MS and Apple heats up Apple needs a bargaining chip to keep MS for nixing Office. If Apple controls Photoshop MS would have to play nice on Office

For under a paltry billion dollars, Apple could own Avid Technology, which would be the primary tech supplier to all of broadcast video media, most of film, and 70% of the MI industry (Digidesign/M-Audio). Not even counting Pinnacle, Softimage, etc...which are all under that umbrella...
post #26 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by salmonstk View Post

Adobe's market cap is 15B. They could buy half of the company for say 10B (price would go up as they buy).

I really think as the fight btw MS and Apple heats up Apple needs a bargaining chip to keep MS for nixing Office. If Apple controls Photoshop MS would have to play nice on Office

Now that would be something! What pernicious fun. Apple buys Adobe and releases all Adobe apps for Windows a long time after they are first released on OSX. Also making the experience less great and crash prone. Just to be evil, like.
post #27 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

But, but, but Balmer says that Apple should separate the iPhone HW and SW if they want a fighting chance in the smartphone market.
http://arstechnica.com/journals/appl...e-and-software

Perhaps Ballmer should wait and actually find success in any one particular area before he goes preaching about what course of action Apple should take.



with best regards,
hmurchison
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
post #28 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post

Along the same lines they can almost buy RIM in cash. Not that they should.

That would be the equivalent of AMD buying ATI. Same result, too! Apple could always buy Psystar...
post #29 of 51
Who would you buy with that cash if you were Apple?
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #30 of 51
To say apple should just sit on the pile of money indefinitely is crazy. If you dont have dividends or stock buy backs and you never seem to use the cash for acquisitions....what the hell is it for after some point? I want to see them flourish and continue to make great products, but it seems they have too much cash. A reserve or buffer is great! 10Billion would be great. Really what good is it at this point though? If they get it to $50B (2 years at this rate?) what then? I really cant see any need for them piling up cash for more than a quarter or two more. I mean if they have more than they could conceivably need for a buffer, have no plans for acquisitions on the scale of the cash on hand what the heck is it for? Are they gonna start loaning money to the US government? Its getting to that point.
post #31 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by markb View Post

...what the hell is it for after some point? I want to see them flourish and continue to make great products, but it seems they have too much cash.

Have you considered that they are saving up for something (and, possibly. the right time to buy it)? If it costs 20B and you think 10B in reserves is acceptable, by your measure, then they need another 5B before they can get it.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #32 of 51
...just look at the non-GAAP numbers. Those reflect Apple's ACTUAL sales and profits last quarter, if Apple didn't defer the iPhone revs.

Sales would have been $11.7B, not $7.9B.

Profit would have been $2.4B, not 1.1B.

EPS would have been $2.69!!! not $1.26.

Just look at those numbers. That's why free-cash flow is so high. That's why cash is being added to Apple's cash pile faster than income. If you just look at those numbers, you'll realize that Apple is one of the most profitable companies in the world, and growing like mad. That's why Apple merited a high multiple, and that's why stupid analysts just don't get it. Steve actually had to get in on the conference call to explain the non-GAAP figures to the analysts, because they've been so clueless since Apple started deferring revenues.
post #33 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by markb View Post

Seriously though, if all they do is "weather the storm" with their 25B in this economic downturn, HUGE opportunity lost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

So you think you could do better than Apple in this environment? With all that money in the bank, they are doing the smart thing buy waiting it out and picking up the almost-dying companies (if they choose) for pennies on the dollar.

Dude, you really aren't contradicting markb here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salmonstk View Post

Adobe's market cap is 15B. They could buy half of the company for say 10B (price would go up as they buy).

I really think as the fight btw MS and Apple heats up Apple needs a bargaining chip to keep MS for nixing Office. If Apple controls Photoshop MS would have to play nice on Office

Adobe and Apple operate under very different sets of philosophies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

SJ just explained why Apple wouldn't make a $500.- computer. The operative word was 'JUNK'. Why then would they spend 25 billion on exactly that?

I see some Orwellian RDF here. The first mini wasn't junk. I even did a bit of HD stuff with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markb View Post

To say apple should just sit on the pile of money indefinitely is crazy. If you dont have dividends or stock buy backs and you never seem to use the cash for acquisitions.

But they do buy companies. PA Semi, FingerWorks, Silicon color, just to name a few in the past two or three years. They buy a lot of stuff, it's just that when you see it, you generally wouldn't know it didn't start life as an Apple product unless you saw it before Apple got ahold of it or were told.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Have you considered that they are saving up for something (and, possibly. the right time to buy it)? If it costs 20B and you think 10B in reserves is acceptable, by your measure, then they need another 5B before they can get it.

Do you have any ideas on what that might be?

Anyway, Apple has about the same P/E as Yahoo. Either Yahoo is overpriced or Apple is underpriced. Growing like mad for three quarters of stagnant macroeconimics when naysayers were saying Apple's sales are going to tank. I think a lot of people are going to have to eat crow here, though in their minds, they'll probably pretend it's steak.
post #34 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I am surprised it was asked, but they would skirt around it anyway. I'd think that Apple would need some sort of headless machine and I do think the Mac Mini will be retired for a new headless Mac to be announced in January. Though not the elusive xMac that people want from Apple. Just an update to an Aluminium case, NVIDIA chipset and miniDP. Basically the new MB components.

Display port supports multiple monitors with a single cable, so maybe the Mac mini will finally be able to do multiple displays.
post #35 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Anyway, Apple has about the same P/E as Yahoo. Either Yahoo is overpriced or Apple is underpriced. Growing like mad for three quarters when naysayers were saying Apple's sales are going to tank. I think a lot of people are going to have to eat crow here, though in their minds, they'll probably pretend it's steak.

Not a clue, but I accept that when it comes to the long-term goals of Apple I have absolutely no "third eye". When trying to think of the next-gen tech that could benefit Apple, like PA Semi and FingerWorks, I can't think of anything. The only well known company I can see Apple could benefit from buying is Sun, but even that has plenty of pitfalls.

Do you have any ideas on what they could buy?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #36 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

Display port supports multiple monitors with a single cable, so maybe the Mac mini will finally be able to do multiple displays.

Jobs did say that they are transferring ALL their Macs to miniDP, but we know that by ALL, Jobs could mean most. miniDP would make sense on a Mac Mini, but will we see that on the Mac Pro, or will it be a normal DP port?

I don't think we even know if miniDP will be adopted by VESA as a standard or if miniDP has the same throughput and features as normal DP.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #37 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenC View Post

...just look at the non-GAAP numbers. Those reflect Apple's ACTUAL sales and profits last quarter, if Apple didn't defer the iPhone revs.

Sales would have been $11.7B, not $7.9B.

Profit would have been $2.4B, not 1.1B.

EPS would have been $2.69!!! not $1.26.

Just look at those numbers. That's why free-cash flow is so high. That's why cash is being added to Apple's cash pile faster than income. If you just look at those numbers, you'll realize that Apple is one of the most profitable companies in the world, and growing like mad. That's why Apple merited a high multiple, and that's why stupid analysts just don't get it. Steve actually had to get in on the conference call to explain the non-GAAP figures to the analysts, because they've been so clueless since Apple started deferring revenues.

Well said!
post #38 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Who would you buy with that cash if you were Apple?

TOP 10 THINGS APPLE WILL BUY IN 2009

1. Wacom
2. DataRobotics
3. sgi
4. Sun
5. Tesla
6. RED (red.com)
7. at&t
8. iRobot
9. Used Large hadron collider
10. Obama
post #39 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

TOP 10 THINGS APPLE WILL BUY IN 2009

1. Wacom
2. DataRobotics
3. sgi
4. Sun
5. Tesla
6. RED (red.com)
7. at&t
8. iRobot
9. Used Large hadron collider
10. Obama

Actually Wacom would be an interesting acquisition for them. At least it would buy up patents, intellectual property, and prevent potential costly and time wasting suits.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #40 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Actually Wacom would be an interesting acquisition for them. At least it would buy up patents, intellectual property, and prevent potential costly and time wasting suits.

I like that Top 10 .. how 'bout something outrageous, that could be done much better by, and with Apple's kind of prudence... and thinking outside the box: a BANK!
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
Reply
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Notes of interest for Apple's Q4 2008 results call