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Apple iPhone 3G sales surpass RIM's Blackberry

post #1 of 43
Thread Starter 
Apple announced quarterly iPhone sales that surpassed those of BlackBerry maker Research in Motion by nearly a million and a half units or 25%: nearly 6.9 million iPhones versus the 5.4 to 6.1 million BlackBerry units RIM sold per quarter during the same calendar quarter in 2008. Apple and RIM have non-overlapping fiscal quarters.

Apple's iPhone sales numbers for the third calendar quarter, which exceeded the previous five quarters' sales combined, easily blew past consensus estimates of 4 million units, and exceeded the expectations of all of the Wall Street analysts we reported earlier today.

Apple also exceeded estimates for Mac and iPod sales by selling more Macs that in any previous quarter and more iPods than in any non-holiday quarter, but passing RIM to become America's best selling smartphone platform, as well as passing its ten million iPhone goal a full quarter early, is sure to catch the most attention of Apple's sales announcements.

RIM has been selling its popular devices for nearly eight years, and achieved peak sales this year after doubling its sales year over year. Apple's ability to catch up and surpass RIM's sales in the course of a single year should strike additional fear in the hearts of boardrooms of companies with smartphone platforms that are doing far worse than RIM, including Nokia's Symbian and Microsoft's Windows Mobile.

Apple also announced that it is now the third largest mobile phone maker by revenue, after Nokia and Samsung. With mobile sales of $4.6 billion for the quarter, Apple is ahead of Sony Ericsson $4.2 billion, LG at $3.4 billion, Motorola with $3.2 billion, and seventh place RIM at $2.1 billion.

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post #2 of 43
Though I am not surprised that Aooke hit the 10,000,000 sales target early it is impressive that they have surpassed Rim.

A better than expected quarter, though the new MacBook pricing at least here in the UK is a bit higher than expected, I myself am waiting for the new iMacs.
iPad, Macbook Pro, iPhone, heck I even have iLife! :-)
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post #3 of 43
Does anyone remember the naysayers when the iPhone was originally announced? I do. "They" said that Apple was out of its league in the mobile phone business. "They" said that Apple would get its head handed to it on a plate by the big boys like Nokia and RIM. "They" said the iPhone wouldn't be the success that the iPod was because Apple would have some real competition from ruthless, experienced mobile phone manufacturers who knew and controlled a difficult market.

But once again SJ and company have come up with totally disruptive technology packaged in an easy to use form that has shot dead many of the business models thought to be indisputable. The so-called ruthless cell phone manufacturers are scrambling to deal with this disruption in their markets. It's a pleasure to watch this going down. Oh the schadenfreude!
post #4 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

....as well as passing its ten million iPhone goal a full quarter early.....

Not quite Daniel. 9.312 million iPhones in the first 3 quarters.
post #5 of 43
Curious, is this iphone 3g against blackberry phones or one phone??
post #6 of 43
Steve Ballmer said:

"Would I trade 96% of the market for 4% of the market? I want to have products that appeal to everybody," he said. "We'll get a chance to go through this [Apple versus Microsoft debate] again in phones and music players. There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance. It's a $500 subsidized item. They may make a lot of money. But if you actually take a look at the 1.3 billion phones that get sold, I'd prefer to have our software in 60% or 70% or 80% of them, than I would to have 2% or 3%, which is what Apple might get."

So Apple must be lying or something.

</sarcasm>
post #7 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

Curious, is this iphone 3g against blackberry phones or one phone??

All BlackBerry phones worldwide.
post #8 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

Curious, is this iphone 3g against blackberry phones or one phone??

It'll be iPhone 3G sold in this last quarter totally more than all of the Blackberry phones sold during the same quarter (all models from Blackberry).
post #9 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leithal View Post

Steve Ballmer said:

"Would I trade 96% of the market for 4% of the market? I want to have products that appeal to everybody," he said. "We'll get a chance to go through this [Apple versus Microsoft debate] again in phones and music players. There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance. It's a $500 subsidized item. They may make a lot of money. But if you actually take a look at the 1.3 billion phones that get sold, I'd prefer to have our software in 60% or 70% or 80% of them, than I would to have 2% or 3%, which is what Apple might get."

So Apple must be lying or something.

</sarcasm>

I know! Ballmer is seriously an idiot, or he must strategically lie.
post #10 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple also announced that it is now the third largest mobile phone maker by revenue, after Nokia and Samsung. With mobile sales of $4.6 billion for the quarter, Apple is ahead of Sony Ericsson $4.2 billion, LG at $3.4 billion, Motorola with $3.2 billion, and seventh place RIM at $2.1 billion.

The important words there are "by revenue." Many of the other manufacturers trounce Apple in unit sales because their phones are very cheap or even free with contract.
post #11 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

Curious, is this iphone 3g against blackberry phones or one phone??

It's iPhone compared with ALL Blackberry phones. Apple beat them by about 800,000 units. It's slightly misleading since it's June-Aug 30 for RIM vs. July-Sept 30 for Apple, so it's not exactly an Apples-to-Apples comparison (or even an Apples-to-Berries).

One interesting point, though, is that RIM had 6.1 million sales, but only 2.6 million new subscribers. I would bet that Apple did much better than that -- in other words, I would suspect that the number of actual new iPhone users is growing significantly faster than the number of new BB users.
post #12 of 43
RIMM up 3% in after hours. Wall Street loves those guys.

The iPhone numbers are incredible. Like someone said, it's nice to see the carriers scramble. Especially after years of sitting back and selling us shoddy interfaces and stagnant technology.
post #13 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

The important words there are "by revenue." Many of the other manufacturers trounce Apple in unit sales because their phones are very cheap or even free with contract.

The question is would you rather have lots of revenue or move a lot of basic product?

Actually, to me profit is more important but hey who cares about making money in a Web 2.0 world?
post #14 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiec View Post

It's iPhone compared with ALL Blackberry phones. Apple beat them by about 800,000 units. It's slightly misleading since it's June-Aug 30 for RIM vs. July-Sept 30 for Apple, so it's not exactly an Apples-to-Apples comparison (or even an Apples-to-Berries).

One interesting point, though, is that RIM had 6.1 million sales, but only 2.6 million new subscribers. I would bet that Apple did much better than that -- in other words, I would suspect that the number of actual new iPhone users is growing significantly faster than the number of new BB users.

New subscribers to the blackberry email service. You can buy a blackberry and not have the email service from them.
post #15 of 43
Ballmer is not a idiot, just a dumb presenter.

He had his idiotogoly mixed-up the x-box and zune percentages.

P.S. Bill was the smart one, he made his exit in time so SB gets blame.

Anyone know the "growth" for MS Mobile"?
post #16 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

The important words there are "by revenue." Many of the other manufacturers trounce Apple in unit sales because their phones are very cheap or even free with contract.

Uh... I guess you didn't read that part at the beginning of the article where it said "units" and not "revenue"?
post #17 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leithal View Post

Steve Ballmer said:

"Would I trade 96% of the market for 4% of the market? I want to have products that appeal to everybody," he said. "We'll get a chance to go through this [Apple versus Microsoft debate] again in phones and music players. There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance. It's a $500 subsidized item. They may make a lot of money. But if you actually take a look at the 1.3 billion phones that get sold, I'd prefer to have our software in 60% or 70% or 80% of them, than I would to have 2% or 3%, which is what Apple might get."

So Apple must be lying or something.

</sarcasm>

Ballmer is quite the genius.

Jazz hands!

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post #18 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

Not quite Daniel. 9.312 million iPhones in the first 3 quarters.


and they already sold the other 600 thousand + this quarter to hit the 10 million Apple's
post #19 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leithal View Post

The question is would you rather have lots of revenue or move a lot of basic product?

It's the same choice as PCs vs. Macs. At the end of the day, a lot of people will look for what's cheapest and what they're familiar with. They won't spend $200 on a cell phone, no matter how whizbang its features are, especially if they'd be forced to buy an expensive data plan with it. That translates to mindshare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post

Uh... I guess you didn't read that part at the beginning of the article where it said "units" and not "revenue"?

Uh, I guess you didn't read the part where I was referring to most of the other makers, not RIM, which was what the first sentence of the article referred to.
post #20 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple also announced that it is now the third largest mobile phone maker by revenue, after Nokia and Samsung. With mobile sales of $4.6 billion for the quarter, Apple is ahead of Sony Ericsson $4.2 billion, LG at $3.4 billion, Motorola with $3.2 billion, and seventh place RIM at $2.1 billion.

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post #21 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

The important words there are "by revenue." Many of the other manufacturers trounce Apple in unit sales because their phones are very cheap or even free with contract.

Yup!

But, in phones, unlike computers, it's the revenue that counts more.

With computers, if you don't have credible marketshare, you won't get the software, or the hardware, which limits the growth of the platform, and can even kill it, we've seen it happen many times over the years.

But with phones, the organized manner in which the iPhone and its ecosystem has been developed has been masterful.

The really cheap software helps very much. It becomes an impulse buy.
post #22 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by EyeNsteinNo View Post

Ballmer is not a idiot, just a dumb presenter.

He had his idiotogoly mixed-up the x-box and zune percentages.

P.S. Bill was the smart one, he made his exit in time so SB gets blame.

Anyone know the "growth" for MS Mobile"?

They had predicted 20 million licenses for the past financial year for MS, but sold just a bit over 18 million. They sold 11 million the year before. Pretty good growth, but not as good as they expected.

http://www.mobileindustryreview.com/...ile_sales.html

They get between $8 and $15, depending on the handset. So that's not a heck of a lot of money for the work they're putting into it, and since it's been around so long, it's just now really getting moving. But they had little competition before. Here in the States, mostly palm, with RIM moving slowly until recently.
post #23 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Ballmer is quite the genius.

Jazz hands!

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post #24 of 43
Kind of a poor comparison if you ask me, considering that Apple launched the 3G iPhone while RIM didn't have any new product launches. I bet a lot of people were waiting (and if you're AT&T still are waiting) for the Bold, Storm, Pearl flip, etc.

I think this next quarter should be a much better reflection of who's winning the hearts of smart phone buyers between Apple and RIM.
post #25 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

The important words there are "by revenue." Many of the other manufacturers trounce Apple in unit sales because their phones are very cheap or even free with contract.

The flaw in your argument is...it doesn't matter if the handset it subsidized (given away or cheaper than from manufacturer). The fact it is SUBSIDIZED means the manufacturer gets their RRP (or close too) from the carrier, instead of the user of the phone.

The only difference between a unlocked phone and a subsidized phone is who bears the brunt of the handset cost. The REVENUE for the manufacturer remains the same in either case.
post #26 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

The important words there are "by revenue." Many of the other manufacturers trounce Apple in unit sales because their phones are very cheap or even free with contract.

The manufacturers DON'T supply any handsets for free. The manufacturer is paid for every single handset sold, either by the consumer or by the networks.
post #27 of 43
using their own numbers when they were claiming to be number 3 phone vendor on a revenue basis...$4.6B/6.9Mphones = $667 per phone sold on average. Pretty sweet. That has to be 50% or so margin.
post #28 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

The important words there are "by revenue." Many of the other manufacturers trounce Apple in unit sales because their phones are very cheap or even free with contract.

Free or subsidized has no impact on corporate revenues...That is handled by the mobile operators
post #29 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post

Free or subsidized has no impact on corporate revenues...That is handled by the mobile operators

It has an impact. The manufacturer is still being paid by the carrier for the agreed upon amount per handset, even if the cost to the consumer is nil.
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post #30 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It has an impact. The manufacturer is still being paid by the carrier for the agreed upon amount per handset, even if the cost to the consumer is nil.

I think that Wolfman is, kind of, agreeing with you.
post #31 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

I think that Wolfman is, kind of, agreeing with you.

Then good, because I agree with me.
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post #32 of 43
Anyone else just a little bit concerned about the Mac growth rate?
20.7%

Previous 4 quarters.

42%
51%
44%
34%

I just like that warm fuzzy feeling when I hear "twice (or even three times) the PC growth"
post #33 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

Anyone else just a little bit concerned about the Mac growth rate?
20.7%

Previous 4 quarters.

42%
51%
44%
34%

I just like that warm fuzzy feeling when I hear "twice (or even three times) the PC growth"

Not at all. Netbooks are being counted in the unit sales and there was a fair amount of people waiting for the new Mac notebook updates before upgrading. In the end, what is important is the revenue and I think that Apple will still maintain it's revenue lead in the consumer market, and perhaps even garnish an overall increase.
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post #34 of 43
I hate to be a stickler for facts, but this story is wrong, twice, in the opening paragraph.

First of all, RIM doesn't report in sync with calendar quarters. Its last report (released on the 25th Sept) covered the three months of June/July/August, not July/August/Sept (as Apple's does).

Second, RIM reported 6.1 million sales in its most-recent quarter. The 5.4 million figure which is cited here was for the previous quarter. To compare like with like, for the equivalent Apple quarter, it sold 717,000 iPhones, as supplies of the EDGE-based model were run down and demand dwindled in the run up to the 3G launch.
post #35 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Not at all. Netbooks are being counted in the unit sales and there was a fair amount of people waiting for the new Mac notebook updates before upgrading. In the end, what is important is the revenue and I think that Apple will still maintain it's revenue lead in the consumer market, and perhaps even garnish an overall increase.

I understand that people waiting for new MacBooks will have slowed sales a little. But by that much? If Apple had had another 40 or even 50% growth quarter that would mean between 400K-600K more Macs. Not everyone knows about the rumours.

Netbooks will have helped the total PC figures. It shouldn't affect Mac sales.... unless people are buying them instead of Macs.

Revenue. Sure! But that unit growth of 20.7% is the lowest YoY growth Apple has recorded in FOUR YEARS. (except for two quarters at the start of the Intel transition).

Is it a trend or a blip?
post #36 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

I understand that people waiting for new MacBooks will have slowed sales a little. But by that much? If Apple had had another 40 or even 50% growth quarter that would mean between 400K-600K more Macs. Not everyone knows about the rumours.

Netbooks will have helped the total PC figures. It shouldn't affect Mac sales.... unless people are buying them instead of Macs.

Revenue. Sure! But that unit growth of 20.7% is the lowest YoY growth Apple has recorded in FOUR YEARS. (except for two quarters at the start of the Intel transition).

Is it a trend or a blip?

Mea culpa. My comment about netbooks is that their low cost is making non-Mac PCs have a higher growth rate than Macs. but I wasn't clear that this was pointing to your last sentence about comparing Mac growth to the PC growth.
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post #37 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiec View Post

It's iPhone compared with ALL Blackberry phones. Apple beat them by about 800,000 units. It's slightly misleading since it's June-Aug 30 for RIM vs. July-Sept 30 for Apple, so it's not exactly an Apples-to-Apples comparison (or even an Apples-to-Berries).

Agreed, it is not a fair comparison. Moreover, Apple had almost a full quarter to laud its fancy new iPhone 3G, whereas RIM relied mostly on older models (the Bold didn't come out until August, and the Storm didn't arrive until September), so its numbers reflect older models. Given this, Apple didn't trounce RIM as bad as some people think. Especially since a good chuck of Apple's figure represents "recycled" sales, in other words the fanbois who absolutely must have Apple's flashy updated product. I wouldn't expect these sales to be as good for their 4th quarter.
post #38 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Yup!

But, in phones, unlike computers, it's the revenue that counts more.

With computers, if you don't have credible marketshare, you won't get the software, or the hardware, which limits the growth of the platform, and can even kill it, we've seen it happen many times over the years.

But with phones, the organized manner in which the iPhone and its ecosystem has been developed has been masterful.

The really cheap software helps very much. It becomes an impulse buy.

The variety of free and cheap apps finally sold me on the purchase of the iPod touch. It's an unbeatable combination.

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post #39 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by markb View Post

using their own numbers when they were claiming to be number 3 phone vendor on a revenue basis...$4.6B/6.9Mphones = $667 per phone sold on average. Pretty sweet. That has to be 50% or so margin.

We don't really know what (and Apple didn't really explain) the $4.6 billion number means --- i.e. does it include previously deferred iphone revenues?

AT&T's $900 million iphone subsidies for 2.4 million 3G iphones --- $375 per iphone. So with price at $200 and $300, the actual real price is $575 and $675. Take the average, the average selling price is $625.
post #40 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

We don't really know what (and Apple didn't really explain) the $4.6 billion number means --- i.e. does it include previously deferred iphone revenues?

AT&T's $900 million iphone subsidies for 2.4 million 3G iphones --- $375 per iphone. So with price at $200 and $300, the actual real price is $575 and $675. Take the average, the average selling price is $625.

That seems about right.

I can't find it now, but in J&R's ad in the NY Times the other day, another smartphone, it may have been a Nokia, I don't remember, was selling, unlocked, for $850.
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