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Intel says iPhone not capable of 'full Internet'

post #1 of 80
Thread Starter 
Intel Corp. this week used a developer forum in Taipei to tout its upcoming Moorestown platform for next-generation mobile Internet devices (MIDs) while slamming Apple's iPhone as a device bogged down by its use of ARM processors.

Following his keynote presentation at the conference, Intel vice president of mobility Shane Wall teamed with colleague Pankaj Kedia, the chipmaker's ultra-mobility ecosystems director, in lambasting the iPhone as a device dependent on technology that's a full two to three years behind that which Intel can offer.

"If you want to run full internet, you're going to have to run an Intel-based architecture," Wall told the gathering of engineers. He said the "iPhone struggles" when tasked with running "any sort of application that requires any horse power."

"The shortcomings of the iPhone are not because of Apple," added Kedia. "The shortcomings of the iPhone have come from ARM."

He said other handset vendors, not just Apple, face the same problem in that their smartphones are "not very smart" because "they use ARM." Wall argued that the iPhone has fallen short in a number of areas, despite its great user interface and supporting marketing blitz orchestrated by chief executive Steve Jobs.

As such, neither executive believes the iPhone will achieve "fast, full internet" any time in the near future if it continues to rely on ARM-based processors.

"Even if they do have full capability, the performance will be so poor," Wall said. To that, Kedia added: "I know what their roadmap is, I know where they're going and I'm not worried."

Apple's recent acquisition of fabless chip designer P.A. Semi appears to have all but cemented the future of the iPhone and iPod in ARM technologies. The electronics maker was recently fingered as the 'long term architecture licensee' of ARM's current and future technology for use in mobile computing.

Steve Jobs said earlier this year that buyout of P.A. Semi would drive the future of his company's handheld products, and it was later revealed PA Semi's senior principle architect is busy at Apple managing a team developing a custom ARM chip that will power a new generation of iPhones.

Apple is also believed to be the mysterious licensee of Imagination Technologie's current and future PowerVR graphics technologies, which are likely to be tied into its future ARM-based iPhone system-on-a-chip (SoC) designs.
post #2 of 80
The honeymoon is over.

The lovers are quarreling.
post #3 of 80
NEWS FLASH: Vendor not selected to provide components says Buyer made a mistake. Film at eleven... (or streaming cell phone video?)"
post #4 of 80
If Intel can point to a processor, in their line, that is as capable computationally and as power efficient, as the ARM, then they should tell us what it is. Anything else sounds like FUD.
post #5 of 80
It's not a full-powered computer, it's a pocket computer-phone. Hybrids always have limitations, and rarely achieve "best of both worlds" feature sets. "Economy pickup trucks" can neither pull 10,000 lb loads nor get wonderful fuel economy, but they make sense to a lot of people wanting to haul some yard waste to the organic landfill once in a while and not have to live with 8 mpg for everything else.
post #6 of 80
sounds to me like intel just found out that the Lost the Apple deal.. Bash Bash
post #7 of 80
OMG of course ARM sucks! is not Intel!
Take that Apple for not buying a processor doesn't even exist! (intel)
post #8 of 80
Well, Apple can move to the ARM Cortex A8 quad core designs, which offer 8x the performance without additional power consumption. Perfect for Grand Central.

And they can adopt the Imagination SGX to replace the MBX. Perfect for OpenCL.

They are licensees for both.

Perhaps in the 2010 iPhone?
post #9 of 80
Intel wouldn't be crapping on about their handheld if there wasn't an iPhone.
post #10 of 80
That is like saying Macbooks are not full computers because they don't have Bru-Ray, card readers or HDMI connectors.

Considering only 4.13% of the internet is up to standard... what does "full internet" mean these days?
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...compliant.html
post #11 of 80
Intel has always won because they manufacture silicon in the highest volumes. Quality is a factor, but high volume lowers cots, which can lower prices, which creates higher volumes. If the phone volume (potentially 1 purchase every 2 years per consumer) starts beating the PC volume (which is bigger, but obviously slowing) then Intel cannot afford to lose the mobile market.
post #12 of 80
Mmm...just because the iPhone does not support Flash or Java Mr. Intel slams it for being under powered by using ARM chips. Interesting. Yet there's a boatload of awesome games that seem to have no problem. I believe Mr. Intel confused the G1 for the iPhone.
post #13 of 80
Sounds like a sales pitch to me. If Intel's offering is any good (price, efficiency, etc.) I'm sure Apple will consider switching from ARM for one of the future iPhone iterations.
post #14 of 80
"Our unreleased processor is better than your released processor!"
post #15 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Intel Corp. this week used a developer forum in Taipei to tout its upcoming Moorestown platform for next-generation mobile Internet devices (MIDs) while slamming Apple's iPhone as a device bogged down by its use of ARM processors.

The demo of their unit showed nothing that the iPhone is not already delivering. Intel's Moorestown platform is now irrelevant and they are trying to claim it is relevant.

I'm sure Apple will continue to advance the processor in the iPhone (Cortex A8 perhaps), keep the developers happy to write apps for an increasingly better performing platform, and grow the market. Apple is very good at finding a niche they can win in and then expanding from there. Intel is still working on the mentality that they can morph their current stuff into something someone wants, even if there is no niche for all the intermediate steps.
post #16 of 80
I have enjoyed the pleasure of an iPod Touch (V2) over the last few weeks - got one the day it was avail here in the UK. It is fast, fluid and, well, brilliant. It plays videos are full screen at maximum FPS, zoomes in and out of images and web pages pretty quickly (not THAT fast, but good enough) and is about 9mm thin. Intel are putting marketing over technology - what they have done for decades. Arm is a fantastic technology that Intel themselves invested in. And yes, the next generation chips from any vendor will be faster. Their comments are dishonest and stink of marketing poo. My respect for them has just sunk.
post #17 of 80
I do agree that there is something wrong with the way that Apple shows the "full internet" whether that is due to software or the underpowered ARM processor I don't know, but I'm growing quite tired of my Safari Mobile crashing at least once a day whenever I try to do something "powerful" on it.

For example, I'm writing this post from my MacBook Pro because I started writing it on my iPhone and it promptly crashed my Safari Mobile.

I'm not kidding when I say that this happens at least once a day. Oh, and I restored the phone about three weeks ago...

Anyway, Intel does have some sour grapes, but Apple also needs to address some issues with its Mobile Safari implementation.
post #18 of 80
The iPhone has NEVER been capable of the "Full Internet" Huge swaths of the internet are flash based, and are completely inaccessible to the iPhone. To add insult to injury, Apple prevents other flash enabled browsers from being developed for that platform.

I love my iPhone, but the lack of flash is a real issue for me.

Intel is on the money with the comment, but not so much because of ARM, more due to management decisions.


Sheldon
post #19 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokessd View Post

The iPhone has NEVER been capable of the "Full Internet" Huge swaths of the internet are flash based, and are completely inaccessible to the iPhone. To add insult to injury, Apple prevents other flash enabled browsers from being developed for that platform.

I love my iPhone, but the lack of flash is a real issue for me.

Intel is on the money with the comment, but not so much because of ARM, more due to management decisions.

Definitely not at all about ARM, because Intel doesn't have anything that is equivalent.

It's Apple's prerogative to not allow other browsers on iPhone, but it seems petty to me.

I'd like to know exactly what sites are too big and complex for the iPhone to use.
post #20 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokessd View Post

The iPhone has NEVER been capable of the "Full Internet" Huge swaths of the internet are flash based, and are completely inaccessible to the iPhone. To add insult to injury, Apple prevents other flash enabled browsers from being developed for that platform.

I love my iPhone, but the lack of flash is a real issue for me.

Not having Flash is not a disadvantage -- it's wisdom. Flash is a clusterf@#k and web designers who rely on it heavily risk losing customers. I hate Flash!
post #21 of 80
"I know what their roadmap is, I know where they're going and I'm not worried."

What does it mean? That Apple will use Intel for the iPhone and iPod touch? I HOPE SO BECAUSE THAT WILL ALLOW THE FULL MAC OS X EXPERIENCE ON YOUR HAND ON A TRULY POCKETABLE DEVICE!
post #22 of 80
Intel is just complaining because apple ditched their chip sets for nVidia on the Macbooks. They could have made their completely ridiculous argument a year ago if they wanted to. Browsing the web does not require a powerful processor, and intel has nothing that's efficient enough to be put into a mobile phone.
post #23 of 80
So the lack of full internet is due to the ARM designed chip?

If that's the case, how do Nokia's Internet tablets manage to implement the full web on a slower ARM chip? Magic?
post #24 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokessd View Post

The iPhone has NEVER been capable of the "Full Internet" Huge swaths of the internet are flash based, and are completely inaccessible to the iPhone. To add insult to injury, Apple prevents other flash enabled browsers from being developed for that platform.

I love my iPhone, but the lack of flash is a real issue for me.
Sheldon

To me, lack of flash is a godsend and not a detriment. I keep the plugin disabled on my MB and if a website designer can't design an HTML page to go with all that flash nonsense, then i usually don't bother visiting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post

Not having Flash is not a disadvantage -- it's wisdom. Flash is a clusterf@#k and web designers who rely on it heavily risk losing customers. I hate Flash!

+1
Quote:
Intel vice president of mobility Shane Wall teamed with colleague Pankaj Kedia, the chipmaker's ultra-mobility ecosystems director, in lambasting the iPhone as a device dependent on technology that's a full two to three years behind that which Intel can offer.

what kind of utter garbage is this statement? "you're 2 years behind what we haven't put out yet"? silliness.
post #25 of 80
Intel keeps promising more power per watt but has not delivered very often. The company was rescued by their Israeli notebook CPU designers after their Pentium 4 efforts were looking like they would require small nuclear power plants to come included with your PC. Northwood was the last semi-reasonable iteration of the P4, and had nearly twice the TDP as the more efficient AMD offerings.

The move to Intel was brilliant because it allowed VMs and because the PowerPC roadmap was even crummier than Intel's. But Apple need not be married to Intel. If they deliver, great. If they don't, then something else will do.
post #26 of 80
To that, Kedia added: "I know what their roadmap is, I know where they're going and I'm not worried."

No he does not. Apple has told no one what the P.A. Semi people are now working on, and never will. You will only know some of it when a new product is released containing it. Then you will still not know completely what the part can do. You will use an API in your code and magic will happen...

If someone says they know what Apple is doing, they don't know what they are talking about.
post #27 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by retroneo View Post

Well, Apple can move to the ARM Cortex A8 quad core designs, which offer 8x the performance without additional power consumption. Perfect for Grand Central.

And they can adopt the Imagination SGX to replace the MBX. Perfect for OpenCL.

They are licensees for both.

Perhaps in the 2010 iPhone?

Probably that is one of the reasons Apple got PA Semi, but don't think we will have to wait until 2010 since Apple is consistent on implement new technology on the iPhone or their entire product line but the mini.
post #28 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethirdshoe View Post

To that, Kedia added: "I know what their roadmap is, I know where they're going and I'm not worried."

No he does not. Apple has told no one what the P.A. Semi people are now working on, and never will. You will only know some of it when a new product is released containing it. Then you will still not know completely what the part can do. You will use an API in your code and magic will happen...

If someone says they know what Apple is doing, they don't know what they are talking about.

He could be saying that he knows they are building another ARM with PA Semi (like everyone suspects) and he (Intel) is not worried. I don't think it implies that Apple will use Intel, but that Intel thinks they will be up to the task to compete with what Apple has coming out processor wise.

Either way, Intel is clueless. Why trash your partner's products that don't use your chips?
post #29 of 80
Flash is to be avoided at all costs. 'Tis the work of the Devil.

Mucho pettiness from Intel person; naughty boy.

"Er, Hello?... Oh Hi, I've got Steve Jobs on the line for you...."
post #30 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

The honeymoon is over.

The lovers are quarreling.

Instead of Intel being respectful to their new customer, they slam them?! If I were Apple I'd go AMD all the way, screw Intel. AMDs are better anyway.
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post #31 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I'd like to know exactly what sites are too big and complex for the iPhone to use.

Porn.
post #32 of 80
Primitive Intel bashing... after losing Apple Mobile as potential customer.

I am sure Apple had thoroughly evaluated Moorestown platform and roadmaps before putting a cross on it.
post #33 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phone-UI-Guy View Post

Why trash your partner's products that don't use your chips?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinney57 View Post

"Er, Hello?... Oh Hi, I've got Steve Jobs on the line for you...."

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

Instead of Intel being respectful to their new customer, they slam them?!

Apple has never been vindictive about anything, have they?
post #34 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Apple has never been vindictive about anything, have they?

I don't remember Apple ever slamming their customers, do you?
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post #35 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

"I know what their roadmap is, I know where they're going and I'm not worried."

What does it mean? That Apple will use Intel for the iPhone and iPod touch? I HOPE SO BECAUSE THAT WILL ALLOW THE FULL MAC OS X EXPERIENCE ON YOUR HAND ON A TRULY POCKETABLE DEVICE!

First, don't use all caps. Its retarded. Second, the iPhone *is* the full OS X experience in a pocketable device. The current OS X GUI does not work on an interface the size of the iPhone. Having an intel processor means nothing. OS X could run on ARM just fine. But the GUI would be awful on that screen.
post #36 of 80
Remember what Intel told us years ago, boys and girls: Intel makes the internet faster.
post #37 of 80
I can't wait to see and hear Apple's response to this stupid statement. Why would Intel want to blatantly bash an Apple product publicly? Do they actually think Apple will respond to such crap? Do they think they have Apple over a barrel now that Apple uses Intel processors in their computer hardware?
post #38 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

Instead of Intel being respectful to their new customer, they slam them?! If I were Apple I'd go AMD all the way, screw Intel. AMDs are better anyway.

Please don't get delusional. Apple relies on Intel waaaaaaaaaaay more than Intel relies on Apple. All these millions of converts to mac over the last few years are due to the fact that they have Intel processors now, you take that away, and you might as well turn back the clock on Apple.
post #39 of 80
To the chagrin of the fanboy faithful, Apple market share skyrocketed after transitioning to the Intel processor family.

Might another transition do the same for iPhone performance?

And another thing... I don' have a problem with Intel but... Is running ones mouth and coming off like an arrogant arse when speaking of a customer the new thing? Is this just the tech world doing this? Is it really necessary?
Love The MAC, Hate On The FanBoy
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Love The MAC, Hate On The FanBoy
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post #40 of 80
I just love how every now and then People like this come and bash Apple. Then 3 or 4 years later they are copying Apple.

Same was said about Apple retail stores and iPods.
Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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