Informed players say Apple's Mac mini still kickin' - Page 4

Well said, Dave. You've summed it up succinctly, the MagSafe connector is quite secure and no one need fear that it's going to disconnect serendipitously. IMO, to say anything else is scaremongering by people who've never used it or people who are using their MagSafe-equipped laptops in a manner which exceeds the design intent.

I think MagSafe is a marvelous invention which does exactly what it's supposed to. The only reason it isn't used by more manufacturers is the NIH (Not Invented Here) factor. Or maybe the patent.

The only thing you might be right about here is the quality of the existing adapter. If it is really as easy or easier to pull out than MagSafe than I think that's a major flaw. On the other hand, the power cord on an iMac or MacPro is much more secure than a MagSafe, as you would expect, since the Magsafe is designed to be easily removable.

Why would you design a desktop computer with an easily removable power cord? It simply does not make sense. And in fact, I had a Macbook with a faulty battery that held no charge, so I've experienced the pain in the @** that is having someone step on your power cord and your computer do a hard shutdown.

I would say unequivocally that the MagSafe and any other easy to remove power cord is not suited for computers that don't have a battery. And really, this is an obvious fact.

Perhaps when you set up your new mini, you should route the power cord where it's not easily stepped on. Problem solved. Unlike a portable, your mini isn't likely to be moved all over the room. The power connector on the current mini is somewhat flimsy compared to, say, a Mac Pro but I've never had a problem with it. If Apple thought it would be a problem, perhaps they could attach a clip next to the Magsafe connector which would hold it in place. Seems unnecessary to me.

If the following Hard Mac rumor is accurate, Apple engineers don't concur with your belief:

The Mac mini Is EOL but NOT Dead!

And neither do I.

I personally don't see a lot of value added in including a MagSafe connector, as cool as they are, on the new mini. Since it's not a portable device, a plain 'ole wall wart AC power supply, as ugly as those are, is what I expect them to supply it with. Not pretty or elegant, but it'll keep costs and form factors in check. The prevailing MacMini predictions seem very much within reason to be expected. The deletion of Firewire, though unwelcomed, if it contributes to the model's continued sub-$600 price point, I'll take it.

See, I don't just need one MacMini--I need at least three (two for use as HTPCs and security camera DVRs, and one for the kitchen), so an economical price point is key. Otherwise, I'll have to reconsider compact PCs again for those specialized applications I have planned for my minis (which I really DON'T want to do). I look forward with great anticipation to a few moderate performance bumps and refreshed cosmetics, and I'll be damned happy with just those minor improvements alone (while still retaining its $599 price point, that is).

It would be good, if it means Apple is embracing the notion that some people want to keep their computers and displays separate as components, rather than all-in-one.

Connecting a mini with Magsafe to a new Apple display with its three-in-one power supply, USB, Mini DisplayPort cable would be nearly as "elegant" as an iMac. If a new 20" display is reasonably priced, this would indeed be a new direction for Apple and I think the mini/display combination would sell well.

EXACTLY why it makes no sense to use a MagSafe with it. THE WHOLE POINT of a MagSafe adapter is to have it easily removable for portable computing. That is the raison d'etre for the MagSafe connector.

What in God's name does that rumor have to do with anything? I saw nothing about MagSafe adapter's in it.

The mini itself is Apple embracing that notion, regardless of the type of power adapter. And since when has Apple ever sold a "reasonably priced" display. I'm not saying they aren't competitively priced for the same technology, but in terms of hoping for apple to release a cheap display a la some of the displays dell gives free with their desktops, I say fat chance.

If Apple's plan were to power the mini with the new displays, they would've put a desktop class power connector and released an adapter for MagSafe that could be used with the new notebooks.

I repeat, there is absolutely no sense in powering a computer without battery backup via a connector that is designed to be easily removable. That is simply stupid.

Apple doesn't embrace or promote the mini. They sell it as the lonely stepchild of the Mac line. If they were to make it so that it connects to their new display(s) as elegantly as the MacBooks, it would mean they're actually embracing it and they want it to sell.

I didn't suggest a Dell-priced display, just something reasonable. Dropping $100 off the current price of the 20" model would be a step in the right direction. As it is, nobody in their right mind considers an Apple display these days.


A new idea like the three-in-one display cable that immediately needs an adapter? Please. \

At first I didn't like the idea of the three-in-one cable on Apple's new display. It reminded me of ADC which was a terrible design and required an expensive power adapter if you were stuck with an ADC display and any computer that didn't have an ADC port.

With the new display cable, you can use it or not. And if your MacBook or Mac mini has a Magsafe power connector, it'll be quite nice. Mini DisplayPort will require an adapter with non-Apple computers, but it won't be as expensive as DVI to ADC adapters were.

It's not THAT easy to remove. I've done it a couple times but only with a level of force that would have dumped my laptop on the floor.

Likewise, I'd rather have an unintended powerdown than my mini crashing to the floor.

You can find an angle where the magsafe pops out easily but typically that's when you're a bit too far from the outlet.

For practical purposes, Apple would then need to sell the power brick separately from the mini since those with the new Apple Display wouldn't need it. I don't think Apple would go that route. For laptops, it makes sense as it allows the user to keep the included brick as strictly a travel accessory. Obviously, the mini doesn't need travel power.

Since the new mini isn't out yet, the first suggested use for the new display (and hopefully a coming 20" model) is to use it as an external monitor for the new laptops. For that, MagSafe is a necessity. Later, the displays will be used with the new mini. Either power cord would be fine with it, but do you really want more than one? Since MagSafe is a necessity for the laptops, and an neutral item for the mini, I predict it will be used for both.

Besides, a lot of people take minis with them for remote setups where the cords are not as carefully arranged as they are at home. I'll bet a lot of them have been pulled off of tables!

You'd need it when you decided to sell the mini and replace it with something different. Seems like a minor detail to me, but the whole thing is probably a far fetched idea anyway.

I don't know why that's so funny.

So would you think that Apple is planning a refresh of the Mac Pro with a built-in magsafe power adapter as well to take advantage of the new displays? What about the Apple TV?

Curious. . . .

Here's an idea:

Add to the new Mini a small battery or capacitor that holds just enough power to put the computer to hibernation. If you pull out the magsafe, the computer hibernates within 3-4 seconds. Plug it back in (where you were or somewhere else) and it takes a few seconds to wake up, and you're up and running.

That would allow for a portable mini, as well as make the magsafe sensible.

The Mac Pro isn't likely to be on the desktop. Nor is it likely to be content with 85W of power. Nor is it luggable.

The mini is all three.

We need a desktop not a mini laptop with no screen and a higher price next to other desktops.

1.
MagSafe is all about lowering Apples need to repair or handle warranty work for broken or intermittent power connectors on the portables. It is not a portable specific product but more of an attempt to maintain reliability leadership.

2.
The use of MagSafe on Portables does not rule out its use elsewhere.

3.
My going with MagSafe across the board Apple achieves a commonality of parts. If the same brick that powers a MBP can be used with a Mini then Apple has just scored an advantage.

4.
MagSafe magnetic latch does not eliminate the possibility of another, supplemental mechanical latch.

5.
MagSafe is reasonably low profile thus could lead to implementation on a number of Apple products.

6.
Pulling the brick off the wall and putting it into a Cinema display is a very smart move in my book. It should actually increase system reliability from a power distribution point of view.

7.
One should keep an open mind to how the feature can be co-opted or enhanced for use in ways that might not seem to be immediately obvious.


Dave

Seeing as how the original purpose of this thread was to discuss the future of the Mac mini, and the discussion about the MagSafe connector & the Mac mini is only a sidetrack of the thread...

Still, if you adjust the display and pull the magsafe out of your laptop, no biggie. If you pull it out of your Mini, that's a bad thing. I agree that the magsafe makes no sense without a battery, a capacitor, or some weird mechanical latch.

I think the fact is, that a scenario where the power cord is pulled out of your mini and a hard shut down resulting in file system damage and loss of unsaved work is inherently unacceptable from a design standpoint. A lot of you are saying, "I'd rather have a hard shut down than have my mini pulled off the table,"but from Apple's perspective, they'd rather have a few people pull their mini's off of the table (which is that user's "fault") than have even one person inadvertently pull out a MagSafe-type connector, in which case the resulting havoc (although it might be relatively minor) would be Apple's fault.

In the case of a laptop, it is a best of both worlds scenario. In the case of the mini, it would be a lesser of two evil's scenario, and I certainly don't see apple choosing the evil that places the blame for hard shutdowns squarely on their @**.

As far as the suggestions for a mechanical latch, capacitor etc., I agree that stuff could work, but I really don't see Apple going to that kind of trouble and expense on their lowest end computer just to make it "look cute" with the new displays.

Anyways, aren't the powercord, etc., on the new displays detachable on the display end. Isn't it possible for apple to just sell a different cord for the mini than the sell for laptops?

Have you all ever seen the power connector on a current mini? It's very easy, with a slight pull, for the power cord to come out of its socket. It's never accidentally happened to me, having owned two minis since the G4. It's very unlikely it would happen with a Magsafe connector, either.

Pops out of my MBP all the time when I move it. If the connector is coming out of the display, than adjusting the display could yank the power out.

I think perhaps the Magsafe connector you have doesn't have a good magnet. Mine never comes off unless I actually trip over the cord or something like that. But I won't argue this point any longer.

Bring on the MagSafe connector. Any plug that you don't have to twist things around to get a head-on view of to insert is a contribution to mental health.

I speak as a guy whose first VCR had a wired remote, with a DIN plug, that plugged in the back! Reach around, try to find the (flush) socket, try to make sure the collar is going exactly into the ring gap, turn and try and try to find the proper orientation....AAARGH!

This is another reason USB should replace Firewire (as soon as USB3 is available, of course.)

I don't buy that because consumers have been accepting the risk for some time now. For example take some of SonY's professional video equipment, much of that has come with an auxiliary retainer for the IEC plug. I have yet to see such on any consumer equipment. Plus as has been pointed out the MagSafe isn't any worst than some things Apple already uses.

From Apples perspective they want happy consumers. They however don't need to go into bankruptcy delivering and warranting such hardware. MagSafe provides for several advantages that Apple can utilize, but it is not just Apple that wins with MagSafe.

Well most hard shut downs are user related one way or the other. What people are missing here though is that it is not outside the possibility for Apple to provide for a system that handles power loss from the MagSae connector gracefully.

The other thing to realize is that the MagSafe connector is part of a 3 headed cord that would also have video, and USB connections plugged in. So you would need to yank all three at the same time.

A suitable value super capacitor isn't that expensive. Frankly if used it provides Apple with a marketing feature especially if coupled with a safe power down. In many applications it would eliminate the need for a UPS. The only question is how long does the cap have to last before the unit shuts down. 5 minutes, or 10. At some point the super cap would become a size problem. Ideally Apple would need an approach that puts the Mac into safe mode within a minute.

Good Question!

Dave

Any mini news is good news.

Well, not if the news is the mini is being eliminated.

If your MagSafe is as difficult to pull out as an IEC plug, you've got one screwed up MagSafe. IEC's don't come out accidentally, auxiliary retainer or no.


Apple's warranty doesn't cover misuse related damages, and that includes accidentally pulling it off of a table. Most people, when they pull their computer off the table, do not blame the manufacturer. That's why Apple was the first to come up with something like the MagSafe for portables.


I won't argue that. Generally, laptops take much less than 30 seconds to sleep, in my experience. I've also noticed that if it sleeps because of low battery, it seems to force to sleep faster and with more consistency than if it is sleeping because you closed the lid. This is something I noticed even with Tiger, when my PB G4 used to sometimes hang while going to sleep. But it never had that problem when it was forced to sleep by low battery.

Again, I think the deciding factor here would be how much worth it is to Apple to have the mini look cute with the new displays; if it's worth more than even the design resources spent on designing a backup power source, than they might well do it.

True, true, but as long as we're talking about it, we know it's still around. Or something like that.
...
Based on its price alone, I have to believe that the mini is one of Apple's best-selling models. And it also has to be one of the most reliable Macs ever made, you never hear anyone complaining about problems and refurbs are almost impossible to find.

So from a purely business standpoint, I can't believe Apple would kill the mini. It just wouldn't make sense. I understand why it has been neglected, though- the market it is targeted at doesn't demand the latest and greatest as much as others, and the longer it goes without an update, the bigger the margin gets (up to the point where parts become hard to find).

I suddenly thought what about Mac Mini, with Dual Core Atom, and Geforce 9400M?

May be with an even lower part, like Geforce 9300M, making the most affordable Mac ever?

Since Dual Core Atom has 4 threads, GrandCentral in Snow Leopard could be a good fit.

And even at 499 or even 399, Apple still make heavy margin.

The atom low l2 and low bus speed will make it slower then to days mini.

Low L2 and slow bus speed aren't the reason Atom is slow. Atom is slow because it is a very simple, in-order processor that sacrifices many features to fit in a low power envelope.

Atom in any form would be unacceptable as a replacement for the Core 2 CPU in the mini.

Well I hope the Mac Mini doesn't disappear. I'm working on a huge digital signage project where I'm planning to use the Mac Mini's in tandem with Sedna Presenter. Cost + Form Factor + Ease of Use = Mac Mini's going off the shelf pretty quickly for digital signage use!

Home
http://www.sedna.de/

More Info
http://www.activatethespace.com/Acti...e/_sedna_.html

Apple like to cut down on size so there obviously going to cut down a few things on the mini. The internal speaker will go. The internal power source will go and so will the DVI/ VGI port will go.

The power will be replaced for the mag safe as apple isnt just going to start making a different cable for the mac mini.

It will be fully compatible with the Led cinema display. Think about it. its nearly the same size screen as the old monitor for the mac mini.

It has Isight, speakers and mic. Think about it all the laptops already have this and the imac have this aswell. so now its time for mac mini to enjoy these features. just connect the mac mini to the led cinema display and it can enjoy all of the features as the other macs.

It will definately not have hdmi as this would kill the apple tv. It possibly will have a full size hard drive, but also the apple tv hard drive will increase.

As for the looks i think the white on top of the mini will turn to black as this look is extending over the mac range and i think that a apple tv update will see a black and silver mac mini and maybe time capsule aswell

Alot of features will definately be added to the mac mini so many that the price may have to increase to $900 - $1000 i dont know if they are going to call it the mac mini the mac nano or whatever we all know it will be a mac mini at heart and that we love the mac mini because of its size

Welcome to Apple Insider.

The Mac mini does not have an internal power supply, but a rather large brick on a chord.
Apple will not remove the speaker. All Macs have had an internal speaker... this is part of their philosophy. When you plug in the Cinema Display the internal speaker will be silenced and use the one in the Cinema Display.


Apple will probably introduce a 20-21" version of the LED Cinema Display with iSight when they introduce the new Mac mini


It will not have a full size hard drive.
If they introduce a similar product with a full size hard drive it will not be called a Mac mini.


I think they will go for a more complete aluminum look.
The new cinema displays do not have a black back like the iMacs.
The back of the new cinema displays has an aluminum finish.
I hope the new mini is carved from a single block of aluminum.


Price will still be in the $600-700 ballpark.

Yes. The black is only used as a surround on Apple's new displays. It will be completely alumin[i]um.

It will not have HDMI, but that is not because it would kill Apple TV. A Mac Mini will still be able to be connected to an HDTV. Apple TV is much much cheaper and works for a rather different market.