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Apple contributes $100,000 to fight California's No on 8 battle

post #1 of 1350
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Apple has joined Google in publicly opposing California's Proposition 8, a measure intended to ban the rights of gay Californians to legally marry, and has contributed $100,000 to defeat the measure.

Both companies have a history of remaining politically neutral, but have chosen to take sides on this issue because it relates directly to the civil rights and opportunities of their employees.

In its Hot News feed, the company stated, "Apple is publicly opposing Proposition 8 and making a donation of $100,000 to the No on 8 campaign. Apple was among the first California companies to offer equal rights and benefits to our employees same-sex partners, and we strongly believe that a persons fundamental rights including the right to marry should not be affected by their sexual orientation. Apple views this as a civil rights issue, rather than just a political issue, and is therefore speaking out publicly against Proposition 8."

Earlier, Google co-founder and president Sergey Brin wrote in the Official Google Blog, "it is the chilling and discriminatory effect of the proposition on many of our employees that brings Google to publicly oppose Proposition 8. While we respect the strongly-held beliefs that people have on both sides of this argument, we see this fundamentally as an issue of equality. We hope that California voters will vote no on Proposition 8 -- we should not eliminate anyone's fundamental rights, whatever their sexuality, to marry the person they love."

The No on 8 campaign notes that "Virtually every major paper in California is against Prop 8. The L.A. Times says it is 'a drastic step to strip people of rights.' La Opinión called Prop 8 'an unnecessary initiative.' The San Diego Union Tribune wrote that Prop 8 'offends many Californians' sense of fairness.'"

Apple's $100,000 contribution to the No on 8 campaign is significant because the effort to stop the proposition has been systematically outgunned by out-of-state religious groups, who have poured cash into TV advertisements that threaten dire consequences if gays' right to marry continue in the state. Among other claims, the ads state that if the proposition isn't passed, California schools will force children to study gay marriage.

That claim prompted California Superintendent of Schools Jack O'Connell to announce that the proposition "has nothing to do with schools or kids. Our schools aren't required to teach anything about marriage, and using kids to lie about that is shameful."



In reality, California gays and lesbians have been able to marry since 2004, when San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom arranged for ceremonies at City Hall, which led to a landmark state Supreme Court decision legalizing same-sex marriage in the state. None of the claims pushed by Prop 8 supporters have occurred over the last four years.
post #2 of 1350
. . . there goes that big laptop contract at BYU! ;-)
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post #3 of 1350
WTF is gay marriage? i mean if you wanna be with someone of your same sex for the rest of your live so be it, but why would they even want to get marry on top of that. Apple please stop flushing shareholders money down the toilet and let People do what ever the heck they wanna do as long as it doesn't affect the company
post #4 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple has joined Google in publicly opposing California's Proposition 8

Good.
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post #5 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraklinc View Post

WTF is gay marriage? i mean if you wanna be with someone of your same sex for the rest of your live so be it, but why would they even want to get marry on top of that. Apple please stop flushing shareholders money down the toilet and let People do what ever the heck they wanna do as long as it doesn't affect the company

I take it you're not happily married or you would know why.
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post #6 of 1350
Bad. Apple should stay out of it.
post #7 of 1350
This is not something companies should be getting involved in. They should remain politically neutral on these matters and let the govt's and states battle it out.
post #8 of 1350
Gay marriage is a legal right that relates to being able to do the same business as anyone else: insurance, hospital visitation rights, and other legal protections that married couples take for granted. The government does not clearly define the civil and religious aspects of marriage, so there's not some non-religious form of domestic partnership that gives gays the same legal rights as other people.

Nobody is forcing gays into your religion, the issue is whether religions should force their dogma on the government. Prop 8 is an effort to rewrite the constitution to say that gays can't have the same legal rights as anyone else.
post #9 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraklinc View Post

WTF is gay marriage?

Is that a deliberately stupid question?

It's marriage between two people of the same sex. Why would people want to do it? Why do heterosexual people get married?

For those who a "pro" prop 8, please explain exactly how two people of the same sex who love each other getting married adversely affects you or anyone else in any way. Seriously, there are much better things to get pissed off about e.g. torture, child abuse, etc. etc. try directing your energies towards ridding the world of things like that before you start trying to interfere with other people's loving relationships.
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post #10 of 1350
Good for Apple!

What a silly non-issue to be putting into the constitution! Taking away rights... for no benefit at all.
post #11 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraklinc View Post

WTF is gay marriage? i mean if you wanna be with someone of your same sex for the rest of your live so be it, but why would they even want to get marry on top of that. Apple please stop flushing shareholders money down the toilet and let People do what ever the heck they wanna do as long as it doesn't affect the company

It does affect the company. It's widely accepted that about 10% of the world's population is homosexual and that includes both Apple's employees and customers. Respecting civil rights is an important consideration for any company seeking to attract good people and this therefore makes sense.

Furthermore, gay marriage means the legal right to the financial, tax and social entitlement benefits that heterosexual couples enjoy by commiting to one other person and sticking with them. It's not just an gimmick, it's a hugely important issue to gay people and their families. Apple (and Google) are to be congratulated for looking out for the rights of their employees.
post #12 of 1350
Oh, give me a break!

I mean, if a man and a woman wants to be with each other for the rest of their lives, so be it. Why do they have to have the right to get married?

Shear stupidity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fraklinc View Post

WTF is gay marriage? i mean if you wanna be with someone of your same sex for the rest of your live so be it, but why would they even want to get marry on top of that. Apple please stop flushing shareholders money down the toilet and let People do what ever the heck they wanna do as long as it doesn't affect the company
post #13 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince View Post

Gay marriage is a legal right that relates to being able to do the same business as anyone else: insurance, hospital visitation rights, and other legal protections that married couples take for granted. The government does not clearly define the civil and religious aspects of marriage, so there's not some non-religious form of domestic partnership that gives gays the same legal rights as other people.

Nobody is forcing gays into your religion, the issue is whether religions should force their dogma on the government. Prop 8 is an effort to rewrite the constitution to say that gays can't have the same legal rights as anyone else.

That is incorrect. Proposition 8 will not take away any rights from gays and lesbians so far as insurance, hospital rights, etc.

The biggest issue is that gay marriage will be taught to kids in school (as early as Kindergarten). Parents should have the right to teach their kids morals. It should not be controlled by the government. For that matter, I don't think marriage should be taught at all in school, but I guess that's for another debate.
post #14 of 1350
I don't understand the need for gay people to get married. The only reason that gays want it is because heterosexuals have it. I think we should just get rid of marriage altogether from the state and federal level. Everyone files their income tax as an individual, and gets their own health insurance as an individual. You want to get married? Fine, go do it in your favorite place of worship or whatever. There would be no benefit to being married as far as our government goes. Go marry a goat for all anyone cares.
post #15 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead View Post

Shear stupidity.

"Shear stupidity" = 'running with scissors'.

I think 'sheer stupidity' is what you meant.


Speaking of sheer stupidity, anyone who can't see that 'Tab A' was designed to go into 'Slot B'.......well.......
post #16 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by mebbert View Post

The biggest issue is that gay marriage will be taught to kids in school (as early as Kindergarten). Parents should have the right to teach their kids morals. It should not be controlled by the government. For that matter, I don't think marriage should be taught at all in school, but I guess that's for another debate.

I take it you just went straight to the comments to post your flame without reading this bit:

Quote:
That claim prompted California Superintendent of Schools Jack O'Connell to announce that the proposition "has nothing to do with schools or kids. Our schools aren't required to teach anything about marriage, and using kids to lie about that is shameful."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIL7PUl24hE
post #17 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by mebbert View Post

That is incorrect. Proposition 8 will not take away any rights from gays and lesbians so far as insurance, hospital rights, etc.

The biggest issue is that gay marriage will be taught to kids in school (as early as Kindergarten). Parents should have the right to teach their kids morals. It should not be controlled by the government. For that matter, I don't think marriage should be taught at all in school, but I guess that's for another debate.

no one is taking that right away from you. you can still teach your kids whatever the hell you want. they are merely teaching tolerance.
post #18 of 1350
This is not a political issue. It is one of human rights. Americans like to say they stand up for human rights around the world and yet when it comes to gay rights in their own country (or even rights for African Americans, for that matter), so many of them would deny two loving people from making a life-long commitment to each other. Yet, people like Brittany Spears can get married on a whim. Pure hypocrisy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nofear1az View Post

This is not something companies should be getting involved in. They should remain politically neutral on these matters and let the govt's and states battle it out.
post #19 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotek2001 View Post

It does affect the company. It's widely accepted that about 10% of the world's population is homosexual and that includes both Apple's employees and customers. Respecting civil rights is an important consideration for any company seeking to attract good people and this therefore makes sense.

Furthermore, gay marriage means the legal right to the financial, tax and social entitlement benefits that heterosexual couples enjoy by commiting to one other person and sticking with them. It's not just an gimmick, it's a hugely important issue to gay people and their families. Apple (and Google) are to be congratulated for looking out for the rights of their employees.


Dear God, please don't debate the merits of Gay Marriage on this website. Write a letter to the editor but seriously folks, this debate is futile. The question here is whether a company should use its money, in a time of uncertainty to champion moral or ethical or whatever you classify gay marriage as an issue. It sends a strong message, to be sure, but is it the right message to be sending at this time? Wouldn't that money be better spent feeding the poor of this country than establishing an even stronger rapport with the gay community?
post #20 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Is that a deliberately stupid question?

It's marriage between two people of the same sex. Why would people want to do it? Why do heterosexual people get married?

For those who a "pro" prop 8, please explain exactly how two people of the same sex who love each other getting married adversely affects you or anyone else in any way. Seriously, there are much better things to get pissed off about e.g. torture, child abuse, etc. etc. try directing your energies towards ridding the world of things like that before you start trying to interfere with other people's loving relationships.

As I mentioned above, many parents don't want their kids being taught about gay marriages in school (myself included). Whether you think that is right or wrong is irrelevant. It's my right to teach them the morals I believe in. You can do the same with your children, but schools do not (or at least should not) have that right.

Another big effect is religious. If gay marriages are recognized by the state, then any religion who refuses to marry gays will be subject to lawsuits and loss of tax exemption. Government cannot force a religion to change its values...well, it used to be that way.
post #21 of 1350
Haha. Yes, sheer!

But a mouth was made for eating and chewing and a tongue was made for tasting, but I don't see anyone saying it's wrong to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

"Shear stupidity" = 'running with scissors'.

I think 'sheer stupidity' is what you meant.


Speaking of sheer stupidity, anyone who can't see that 'Tab A' was designed to go into 'Slot B'.......well.......
post #22 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead View Post

This is not a political issue. It is one of human rights. Americans like to say they stand up for human rights around the world and yet when it comes to gay rights in their own country (or even rights for African Americans, for that matter), so many of them would deny two loving people from making a life-long commitment to each other. Yet, people like Brittany Spears can get married on a whim. Pure hypocrisy.

At least Britney could figure out the natural order of things....that a male and a female go together...
post #23 of 1350
Here in Arizona, we have a constitutional amendment on the ballot that simply defines marriage as being between one man and one woman. It will pass, and I will vote for it. I hope it also passes in California.
post #24 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post


Speaking of sheer stupidity, anyone who can't see that 'Tab A' was designed to go into 'Slot B'.......well.......

A lot of guys like 'Slot C' if their girlfriend/wife doesn't mind. So what has that got to do with it. Besides, now much of your total life with a spouse is spent having sex as opposed to everything else. It's mostly about the everything else. Live and let live.
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post #25 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraklinc View Post

WTF is gay marriage? i mean if you wanna be with someone of your same sex for the rest of your live so be it, but why would they even want to get marry on top of that. Apple please stop flushing shareholders money down the toilet and let People do what ever the heck they wanna do as long as it doesn't affect the company

A little self contradictory there, fraklinc. Gay marriage is ... well... marriage. No different than mom and pops, really. Why anyone would prevent anyone to marry the one they love is completely beyond me. Why people feel the need to get married in the first place is also a little beyond me. I see it as a legal issue and in that respect I guess there is a point, but these days many courts recognize common law marriage so it all seems a little pointless. But as you say - each to his or her own. I assume that what you really disapprove of is marriage, not GAY marriage as you give the impression of doing. I understand that what you REALLY disapprove of is that Apple raised its voice, but to deny some people the right to get married and not others is as wrong as it is arrogant so I applaud Apple for taking a stand. Its not controversial - its just common sense and if there is anything we need more of in this world it is exactly that.
post #26 of 1350
I wish Apple's software licensing policies were as liberal as their social policies. But, good move Apple!
post #27 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotek2001 View Post

I take it you just went straight to the comments to post your flame without reading this bit:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIL7PUl24hE


You clearly are not familiar with what is going on in Massachusetts. Kindergarteners get a book about it. If it is legal, then teacher can legally teach about it. But, I must agree with the above post that this isn't really the place to debate the issue itself. I'll stop.

But I don't think corporations should get involved.
post #28 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In reality, California gays and lesbians have been able to marry since 2004, when San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom arranged for ceremonies at City Hall, which led to a landmark state Supreme Court decision legalizing same-sex marriage in the state.

Um, no we haven't

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-se...isco_marriages

There was a brief period where we could get married (but only in SF), then it got taken away and those who were married had their marriage licenses voided.


Apple has a very high percentage of LGBT employees. Good for Apple and standing up for their employees.
post #29 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

. . . there goes that big laptop contract at BYU! ;-)

Now that's funny!

But seriously, Apple's decision has made me a very proud stockholder indeed. I agree with their position that this is not a political issue, but a civil rights issue.

The guy who said the government has no business being involved in marriage is totally right. But as long as they are involved, then they've got to treat everyone the same. That's what freedom is all about: the freedom for you to hold an unpopular opinion and still be treated the same as those with popular opinions.

Yay Apple!
post #30 of 1350
This is simply wrong.
Marriage is between a man and a woman. What's next......allowing people to get married to a member of their own familiy............or peradventure their dog (after all don't we love our animals),cat,etc.......My rights are being taken away when I can't marry a object. When,where does it stop? I love my toothpaste - can I marry that? Why not?
Apple should not be getting involved into politics. It will only divide and exclude people.
post #31 of 1350
I don't know what Kool Aid you've been drinking, but the opposition to Prop 8 is outspending the "religious groups" 7 to 1 in advertising this week alone. Additionally, Superintendent O'Connell's statement that California schools are not "required" to teach on marriage sidesteps the real truth that the state's schools ARE teaching that gay marriage is normal and proper. In fact, last week a Bay area kindergarten class was taken by their teachers to attend a gay wedding. Moreover, school administrators are making it clear that parental objection means nothing to them.

Whether or not gay marriage is acceptable, such deception on the part of officials is not. And neither is AppleInsider's fawning reportage on an issue it knows to be two-sided. Sheesh, did Keith Olberman write this piece?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple's $100,000 contribution to the No on 8 campaign is significant because the effort to stop the proposition has been systematically outgunned by out-of-state religious groups, who have poured cash into TV advertisements that threaten dire consequences if gays' right to marry continue in the state. Among other claims, the ads state that if the proposition isn't passed, California schools will force children to study gay marriage.

That claim prompted California Superintendent of Schools Jack O'Connell to announce that the proposition "has nothing to do with schools or kids. Our schools aren't required to teach anything about marriage, and using kids to lie about that is shameful."

In reality, California gays and lesbians have been able to marry since 2004, when San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom arranged for ceremonies at City Hall, which led to a landmark state Supreme Court decision legalizing same-sex marriage in the state. None of the claims pushed by Prop 8 supporters have occurred over the last four years.
post #32 of 1350
I am switching to Windows now! I dont intend to pay Jobs my hard-earned money! .Net I love you!
post #33 of 1350
Here in Denmark Gay marriges have been legal for decades.

Why you (The States) haven´t come out of the middle ages yet regarding this issue I can´t understand???

THEREFORE I SAY GOOOOOO APPLE!!!!!!

Many children have had good upbringings and competent parenting from loving parents here, wether it was mom and mom or dad and dad parenting! IT´S ALL ABOUT THE LOVE!!! ...Not restrictions. No one can and should decide whom a person loves but the individual himself/herself!

Apple has gone "green". You don´t think that´s political!? Why is this so different? In the board room they have disgussed this and they also know that this will ensure them many new customers from generations to come. This is pleasing the youth... which is Apple´s future. So why not do the right thing AND win over a larger customer base?!

Don´t hide who you are...
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post #34 of 1350
And with that argument, if you're broke, you should just throw your beliefs aside and go rob a bank.

I think more US companies should stand up for the human rights that is proudly claimed to be so superior by Americans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

The question here is whether a company should use its money, in a time of uncertainty to champion moral or ethical or whatever you classify gay marriage as an issue.
post #35 of 1350
As a stock holder I applaud Apple on this courageous move.

More companies need to support civil rights issues!

KRR
post #36 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabu22 View Post

This is simply wrong.
Marriage is between a man and a woman. What's next......allowing people to get married to a member of their own familiy............or peradventure their dog (after all don't we love our animals),cat,etc.......My rights are being taken away when I can't marry a object. When,where does it stop? I love my toothpaste - can I marry that? Why not?
Apple should not be getting involved into politics. It will only divide and exclude people.

Look up reductio ad absurda if you can understand what it means
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post #37 of 1350
Quote:
Both companies have a history of remaining politically neutral

And so they should have remained, just because both companies give equal rights to their employees, which indeed they should, does not mean that they should be making political statements that try to define the definition of marriage. A Union that was and always should be defined as being between a man and a woman.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti gay. I have a cousin who has compulsions and tendencies that way. He is an amazing person. A wonderful human being. He has every right to be accepted for what he chooses. But to me, he, as a person, and his choice of lifestyle are separate matters. I love him for who he is, but I can not endorse his chosen behavior. A behavior that seems to have been hijacked by a minority. Lets face it, if you have a natural tendency to alcoholism your loved and helped out. same for any other compulsion that can beset mankind, but mention same sex attraction as something different, as something that you just are and can't fight, and your shouted down by this minority. I know from first hand evidence what its like for people to fight same sex attraction feelings and I know there are plenty who do fight and who do win.

I know I'm going to get flamed for these statements, but so be it. However let it be known that I respect everyone and everyone's right to an opinion. I will not attack or ridicule anyone for their choices, everyone is a brother or sister, but as a matter of principle I cannot lay silent when people, or companies, support the redefinition of marriage and family.

Oh yeah, I'll still buy Apple, as will BYU. Even though my first reaction was... Mmm, do I want to buy from this company again? Thankfully my right side prevailed as not buying from Apple, the worlds greatest computer and OS manufacturer, will prove nothing. All that is required is a polite comment. Which I hope this is.

All the best

Vote Yes on Prop 8
post #38 of 1350
Denmark, Belgium, the Netherlands, Spain, ... all countries where gay mariage is legal. As it should be. Why discriminate? Good for Apple to speak out!

And why should children not be taught about gay marriage in school? If they have a friend in their class with two mothers or fathers, why should that be ignored? Education is the only way to become more tolerant and open minded!
post #39 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd Reich View Post



This from a company who had a rainbow Apple logo in the past. With the company so close to the city of Nancy boys ( San Francisco) got to figure of them whispered the idea to Jobs when they were sharing a night of love. He is way too thin and stylish to be hetro.

The Republik of Kalifornia is already the laughing stock of the nation leting the Nancy's marry will only add fuel to the fire. Why should a lousy 2 % of the population dictate terms to the majority?

Ban gay marriage and execute those 4 judges who saw that we voted against this before and told us our votes do not count

What a waste of money.

For you Nancy boys who want gay marriage go suck a pickle

Damn!!!... and on a first post too - gentlemen, start your engines!
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post #40 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

A lot of guys like 'Slot C' if their girlfriend/wife doesn't mind. So what has that got to do with it. Besides, now much of your total life with a spouse is spent having sex as opposed to everything else. It's mostly about the everything else. Live and let live.

Point taken.

Men and women were also designed to go together because we are different in personality and spirit, and compliment each other. Little boys like adventure and shooting games and swashbuckling. Little girls like dressing pretty and twirling in tutus and playing house. When we grow older and find a partner, strength melds with beauty, and the two compliment each other and become one. Our differences complete us. Children need both as parents; they miss out on one or the other when there are only 2 dads or 2 moms.

It's been said that when a society begins to lose gender distinction, it's in its final throes. You can see it in progress in the great old U. S. of A.
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