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Apple contributes $100,000 to fight California's No on 8 battle - Page 4

post #121 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

I don't understand the need for gay people to get married. The only reason that gays want it is because heterosexuals have it. I think we should just get rid of marriage altogether from the state and federal level. Everyone files their income tax as an individual, and gets their own health insurance as an individual. You want to get married? Fine, go do it in your favorite place of worship or whatever. There would be no benefit to being married as far as our government goes. Go marry a goat for all anyone cares.

It's simple. Government has no business whatsoever being involved in the issue of marriage as a religious ceremony, but since they are it's discriminatory.

Gov't needs to get out of the "marriage business". I consider it a legal contract, the whole church involvement thing is just thousands of years of hocus-pocus sprinkled on top.

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post #122 of 1350
aaa bbb ccc

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #123 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf the Semi-Coherent View Post

I'm not going to debate the issue of gay marriage here on these boards because it's pointless. Both sides are set in their ways and feel that they're right and/or morally superior. So, have at it, guys and gals.

instead, I will offer a couple of links here, then do something more productive. I will continue to donate money to No on Prop 8, and work the phone banks to call undecided voters in order to counter the lies--yes, LIES--that the Yes on Prop 8 folks are pushing in their ads.

Don't believe me? That's fine. Here's a little video that exposes the five lies that the pro-8 crowd is selling you, and the truth behind the claims: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-pSye9W7FY

Oh, and the Yes on 8 crowd are now resorting to blackmail-like tactics to gain support: http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/23/4145

I applaud Apple for their role in stopping discriminatory legislation, which is motivated by fear tactics. It's the worst kind of politics, no matter what issue you're dealing with.

GTSC

Cool that you won't lower yourself to the lowly level of debate. Really appreciate it.
post #124 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd Reich View Post

Because when the kids at school find out the adopted kid has 2 gays for parents he will get his butt kicked all thru school.

Plus what a role model to follow, if Jr. wasn't gay he or she will be by the time there done. If it's a infant it will think it's okay for 2 males to kiss each other. After that it's a short ride to being a hair stylist.

hello flame boy.

I wonder if all the guys on here are nice to you and flirty, will that turn you? I mean, according to you, thats really all it will take.

Maybe you shouldnt comment on things you have no understanding of, nor inclination to try and understand.

but then, you are just a troll.

hows that shaved head you must have with a name like that? i mean what are we to take from that? oh noesss... don't gays have shaved heads too? oh gee its already happening to you... you are turning... you really need to leave here pronto before the transformation is complete.

BYE BYE
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post #125 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleAnt View Post

I object to my government blessing as acceptable what I view as immoral and against biological nature.

Dear Newly Minted WindowsAnt:

You need to take a much closer and more serious look at both biology and nature if you think they are a source for moral behavior. I can suggest several universities (other than Bob Jones and Oral Roberts) who can help.
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post #126 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Dear God, please don't debate the merits of Gay Marriage on this website. Write a letter to the editor but seriously folks, this debate is futile. The question here is whether a company should use its money, in a time of uncertainty to champion moral or ethical or whatever you classify gay marriage as an issue. It sends a strong message, to be sure, but is it the right message to be sending at this time? Wouldn't that money be better spent feeding the poor of this country than establishing an even stronger rapport with the gay community?

I guarantee this thread disappears sooner than the DVD vs. Blu-Ray thread.

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post #127 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

Why do we discriminate against adults having consensual sex with children?

Why do we discriminate against polygamy?

Why do we discriminate against marrying a dog our a goat? (don't laugh, it's done in Hindu cultures)

Realize that discrimination is good in certain instances. What's being debated is whether something should be discriminated against or not.

Ask God if he discriminates. He does discriminate, because he knows what is good for us and what is not good for us. He created bounds and limits for us, and discriminates between what's in bounds and what's out of bounds in terms of behavior. He discriminates, and does it in love. Sometimes he says 'no', with love.

hold on, god doesnt exist, shes just made up and imaginary.
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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post #128 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

Point taken.
Little boys like adventure and shooting games and swashbuckling. Little girls like dressing pretty and twirling in tutus and playing house. When we grow older and find a partner, strength melds with beauty, and the two compliment each other and become one.

But isn't it society that defines this? we give boys cars and guns to play with, we give girls dolls to play with, we teach them that this is supposed to be what they ought to do.
post #129 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I say it's unethical to deny people the same rights you have to a full, happy life simply because you don't care for their natural race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, height, weight, gender, cranium phrenology or any other aspect of their person that is biologically originated.

I love this guy! Seriously, I have a mind crush.
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post #130 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPeon View Post

Explain why?! It's not a matter of affecting one on a personal level, but it will eventually as the society reaches lower and lower levels. If you don't care that the mores of the society go to shit then by all means let's all support this.

Want proof? All societies of the past have been destroyed solely due to the lowering of the mores of that society. Every single one.

It's unethical for two members of the same sex to engage in sexual intercourse let alone marriage.

unethical? How? Because "God" said so? (if you like the old testament so much, shouldn't you be a Muslim or a Jew?)

I do care about the mores of society and I don't want society "to go to shit". The problem here is that you can provide no logical argument for how homosexuality harms society.

What exactly are you so afraid of? Do you think gay people want to make everyone gay? I'm not afraid of anything turning me gay, why are you?
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post #131 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I say it's unethical to deny people the same rights you have to a full, happy life simply because you don't care for their natural race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, height, weight, gender, cranium phrenology or any other aspect of their person that is biologically originated.

error
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post #132 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Good for Apple!

What a silly non-issue to be putting into the constitution! Taking away rights... for no benefit at all.


100% agreed. 'Nuff said.
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post #133 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by mebbert View Post

You clearly are not familiar with what is going on in Massachusetts. Kindergarteners get a book about it. If it is legal, then teacher can legally teach about it. But, I must agree with the above post that this isn't really the place to debate the issue itself. I'll stop.

But I don't think corporations should get involved.

What happens in Massachusetts, stays in Massachusetts.

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post #134 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd Reich View Post

the Nancy's

The plural of "Nancy" is "Nancies"
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post #135 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by mebbert View Post

The biggest issue is that gay marriage will be taught to kids in school (as early as Kindergarten). Parents should have the right to teach their kids morals. It should not be controlled by the government. For that matter, I don't think marriage should be taught at all in school, but I guess that's for another debate.

One of the biggest issues is the idiocy of statements like this. The moronic "Yes on 8" crowd (those Bible-thumping intolerant folks who claim to know the word of the Lord) are using this "they's a-gonna teach our youngin's the gay thing after 'rithmetic class!!!" as a smokescreen to hide their bigotry and intolerance. You, sir, are a gullible fool for falling for it. Shame on you.

I somehow don't remember Christ teaching intolerance but that's another story.

Thank you, Apple for taking a stand against hatred.
post #136 of 1350
For 20 plus years I have been a Mac user and I am too familiar with the short comings of the MS OS and too accustom to the advantages of Mac to change. Although I have rooted for Mac all these years, this is one time I hope Apple looses and looses badly. There are some things that are wrong and no mater how much they me be justified, they are still wrong. This Gay thing is wrong.

When MS stole the Mac OS we all knew it, no matter what they claimed. It was stealing and wrong. Well things are starting to turn around after many years. I have lived long enough to tell those who will listen wrong does not win in the end. IT never has and it never will. I do not have to prove that history proves it far better than I ever could. It may take time but right always wins.

Respectfully submitted, knowing others will not agree.
post #137 of 1350
A.) I don't care how many customers or employees this affects, Apple still has no business supporting social issues. It is a democratic vote by the people, and everyone else needs to shut their face. The PEOPLE will decide how they want to be governed. Majority rules in a democratic situation. Deal with it. In fact, I think it will hurt Apple more, as MORE people object to the idea overall. Homosexual marriage has historically been voted down time and time again, though single legislating judges feel it is their right to over rule the PEOPLE.

B.) MARRIAGE IS NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT! I challenge any one of you to find it in the Constitution. You will not/cannot find it. So therefore, the 14th Amendment DOES NOT protect MARRIAGE (homosexual or otherwise) for it's citizens.

post #138 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

Funny you should bring up that argument. Darwinian evolution would tell us that homosexuality should have passed out of the gene pool as soon as it developed, because only creatures that were better at breeding (and staying alive long enough to do so) would pass on their genes to subsequent generations. Homosexuality shouldn't exist if Darwinian evolution is true.

Or maybe homosexuality isn't genetic....?

I honestly can't believe the ignorance and bigotry ON AN APPLE FORUM!

I also think you need to revise your study.

Evolution by its definition produces "non standard" that would be, in this instance, those unlikely to reproduce, its one of the basic BASIC principals.

---

Blinkered BLINKERED unthinking people posting here..

and from a group of people who hold up the value to think different..
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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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post #139 of 1350
Wow this really sucks for Apple.

Can't believe they would back such a morally reprehensible act.

Now we know Steve doesn't have cancer, he most likely has AIDS.

Die. Steve. Die.
post #140 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

All I know is I am Voting for Ralph Nader and that Barack Obama is a liar, Biden is a plagiarist, McCain is batshit crazy, and Palin is brainless.


VOTE NADER/GONZALEZ!


Oh and Fuck Morality

whos morality? yours?

in that case i agree.
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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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post #141 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPeon View Post

Last time I checked I was a sentient being not an animal. But hey, you are free to be whatever you want to be.

An animal is a living organism that feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous system and able to respond rapidly to stimuli.

Being sentient means you able to perceive or feel things.

They are not exclusive of each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

It's simple. Government has no business whatsoever being involved in the issue of marriage as a religious ceremony, but since they are it's discriminatory.

Gov't needs to get out of the "marriage business". I consider it a legal contract, the whole church involvement thing is just thousands of years of hocus-pocus sprinkled on top.

I agree, but since the government is involved and there is no need to involve any religion, unless one wishes, I see no reason why two same sex couples can't be married under law. The under God part is up to the churches, and I don't see them changing their stance anytime soon.

I think the real issue is that people can't separate the polyseme term of the related but distinct meaning of a marriage under God and a marriage by law. If it we called the legal union something different than marriage would this as big of an issue?
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post #142 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by YTV View Post

Wow this really sucks for Apple.

Can't believe they would back such a morally reprehensible act.

Now we know Steve doesn't have cancer, he most likely has AIDS.

Die. Steve. Die.

I seriously cannot believe people as stupid as you exist in the 21st century. Assuming that post was serious.
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post #143 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

I seriously cannot believe people as stupid as you exist in the 21st century.

And I can't believe society has declined so much over the last 100 years, that something like this would even make it to a ballot.
post #144 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by arownious View Post

A.) I don't care how many customers or employees this affects, Apple still has no business supporting social issues. It is a democratic vote by the people, and everyone else needs to shut their face. The PEOPLE will decide how they want to be governed. Majority rules in a democratic situation. Deal with it. In fact, I think it will hurt Apple more, as MORE people object to the idea overall. Homosexual marriage has historically been voted down time and time again, though single legislating judges feel it is their right to over rule the PEOPLE.

B.) MARRIAGE IS NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT! I challenge any one of you to find it in the Constitution. You will not/cannot find it. So therefore, the 14th Amendment DOES NOT protect MARRIAGE (homosexual or otherwise) for it's citizens.


A) Problem is, it's not that simple. 2/3 of all "yes for Prop 8" funds came from outside of CA, specifically mormons in UT and AZ. They don't have any business pushing their agenda in CA which is decidedly more liberal than their states.

B) Equality is a god-given right, even according to religious freaks.
post #145 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by htoelle View Post

It may take time but right always wins.

That damned right wing Harper! But seriously, when you say "this Gay thing is wrong", what exactly do you mean? What is this 'thing' and what is it that is so wrong?
post #146 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by YTV View Post

Wow this really sucks for Apple.

Can't believe they would back such a morally reprehensible act.

Now we know Steve doesn't have cancer, he most likely has AIDS.

Die. Steve. Die.

Its your Hell, you burn in it.
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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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post #147 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

I honestly can't believe the ignorance and bigotry ON AN APPLE FORUM!

I also think you need to revise your study.

Evolution by its definition produces "non standard" that would be, in this instance, those unlikely to reproduce, its one of the basic BASIC principals.

---

Blinkered BLINKERED unthinking people posting here..

and from a group of people who hold up the value to think different..

Don't you think you are stretching it a bit, simply to prove his very valid point (whether his conclusion of Darwinism was right or not) wrong?
post #148 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I guarantee this thread disappears sooner than the DVD vs. Blu-Ray thread.

hallowed be its name
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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post #149 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

Here in Arizona, we have a constitutional amendment on the ballot that simply defines marriage as being between one man and one woman. It will pass, and I will vote for it. I hope it also passes in California.

That I got the heck out of Arizona!

(Just kidding...it was mostly cause of that idiot Sheriff Joe!!!)
post #150 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by YTV View Post

And I can't believe society has declined so much over the last 100 years, that something like this would even make it to a ballot.

Still waiting for the reasoning as to what's so bad about other people being gay. Are you afraid they might make you gay too?
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post #151 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Are you high?

The catholic church has forbidden women from becoming priests for centuries and I'll be shocked if that ever changes. You really think people can get religions to change by suing them?

I think it is pointless and silly for Apple to be making a stance on these issues. Especially being that in California same sex couples receive virtually the same legal protections as married couples; namely rights of property, tax rights, retirement program rights, employment rights, and other legal benefits. I am completely in favor of all these benefits and hope to see them adopted nationwide.

But here are a few points to explain why I am voting YES on Prop 8. My position is the same as both presidential candidates and their running mates (as were clearly stated in recent VP debate) in maintaining the traditional definition of "marriage" as being between one man and one woman.

I would also be more than happy to provide additional citations for any of these claims.

What do those opposing Proposition 8 want?

1. Those opposing Proposition 8 want same sex marriage taught in school, starting with kindergarten, as being exactly the same as marriage between a man and a woman. They want this teaching campaign that sexual preference does not matter to begin even before children develop their sexual identities, which will be confusing and destabilizing to our children.

2. Those opposing Proposition 8 would like that campaign to occur at taxpayer expense, as all textbooks in California will be required to be changed to describe marriage as genderless.

3. Those opposing Proposition 8 insist that this propaganda campaign must occur without parental consent or notice.

4. Those opposing Proposition 8 want same sex couples to be able to force their right to adopt a young baby even when it will compete with and replace a family with a mother and father, although having a mother and a father is always in the best interest of every baby.

5. Those opposing Proposition 8 seek to close down adoption clinics and religious welfare agencies of those who oppose same sex marriage (just as has happened already in Massachusetts), as they place the right to same sex marriage on a collision course with the right to free speech and freedom of religion of those with whom they disagree, when those clinics are a crucial help to the people of this State.

6. Those opposing Proposition 8 do not want people in a same sex union to be properly questioned when they try to adopt young adults of their same sex for example, two married men seeking to adopt a 12-year old boy. In short, same sex couples do not want to be treated any differently than a couple consisting of a man and woman even in circumstances where there are differences and questions should be asked.


These are just a few points. You are free to disagree. By definition, tolerance means tolerating differences. I am not forcing you to agree with me, but I ask that this discussion continue in a respectful way.
post #152 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

Funny you should bring up that argument. Darwinian evolution would tell us that homosexuality should have passed out of the gene pool as soon as it developed, because only creatures that were better at breeding (and staying alive long enough to do so) would pass on their genes to subsequent generations. Homosexuality shouldn't exist if Darwinian evolution is true.

Or maybe homosexuality isn't genetic....?

According to a group of Italian researchers, the genes that make men gay evolved because they actually make their female relatives more fertile.

The team discovered that the mothers, aunts and sisters of gay men tend to have more children than those women related to straight men.

Science disagrees

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/oc...ation.research
post #153 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by htoelle View Post

For 20 plus years I have been a Mac user and I am too familiar with the short comings of the MS OS and too accustom to the advantages of Mac to change. Although I have rooted for Mac all these years, this is one time I hope Apple looses and looses badly. There are some things that are wrong and no mater how much they me be justified, they are still wrong. This Gay thing is wrong.

When MS stole the Mac OS we all knew it, no matter what they claimed. It was stealing and wrong. Well things are starting to turn around after many years. I have lived long enough to tell those who will listen wrong does not win in the end. IT never has and it never will. I do not have to prove that history proves it far better than I ever could. It may take time but right always wins.

Respectfully submitted, knowing others will not agree.

You're right. When are religious folks going to realize that "the church" has always and regularly been at least a century behind human social development. The Renaissance must have been a traumatic time for these narrow minded folks who are constrained by whatever the received interpretation of scripture was in their time. All that humanism and pluralism, the devil's work, all of it. First Galileo, then witches, race mixing and other "unnatural" human behavior . . . You guys always assume that you are right and the rest of us have to pass laws to enshrine your personal beliefs. You base this on what the mysterious guy in the next room who nobody sees tells you. Keep your church out of our government and I'll try very hard to keep government out of your church.
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post #154 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by YTV View Post

And I can't believe society has declined so much over the last 100 years, that something like this would even make it to a ballot.

So then you're against prop 8?
post #155 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

I honestly can't believe the ignorance and bigotry ON AN APPLE FORUM!

I also think you need to revise your study.

Evolution by its definition produces "non standard" that would be, in this instance, those unlikely to reproduce, its one of the basic BASIC principals.

---

Blinkered BLINKERED unthinking people posting here..

and from a group of people who hold up the value to think different..

Quote:
Originally Posted by nowayout11 View Post

A) Problem is, it's not that simple. 2/3 of all "yes for Prop 8" funds came from outside of CA, specifically mormons in UT and AZ. They don't have any business pushing their agenda in CA which is decidedly more liberal than their states.

B) Equality is a god-given right, even according to religious freaks.



Again, one cannot change this argument from a constitutional to a non-constitutional (and back again) when its convenient. Either it is or its not, and IT IS NOT. So therefore, states can and will do anything with a 'right' they want to according to the people. The CONSTITUTION is the only thing that is PROTECTED in terms of individuality and rights. Funds can come from anywhere for any advertising, but VOTES come from residents. The residents aka the people voted and will vote again.

And what does religious fanatics have to do with anything in this argument? This is about legal rights, and parents rights is it not?
post #156 of 1350
srs, sorry but those are all lies. You drank the kool aid.
post #157 of 1350
This is one of the things I like about Apple, they do the right thing for the end user.

reading this story has lifted my opinion on Apple/jobs after the Firewire stupidity.

Go Apple.

I am SO glad I don't live in the politically festering quagmire that america has become, but if I did live in california I would be voting NO.

Society evolves. Deal with it.

Freedom.

whats that again?
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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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post #158 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

Its your Hell, you burn in it.

Sorry I'm not religious. But I do recognize that things are either right or wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Still waiting for the reasoning as to what's so bad about other people being gay. Are you afraid they might make you gay too?

Its so bad, bacause its wrong. Just like pedophilia is wrong. Just like stabbing random old ladies is wrong. Just like touching your sister is wrong. Its just plain wrong.

Why would I be scared they would make me gay? That is the stupidest thing I ever heard. Would I be scared of becoming a pedophile if pedophilia was legalized or becoming a crackhead if crack was legalized? Seriously thats the stupidest shi I ever heard and makes negative 2 ounces of sense.
post #159 of 1350
Since the authors of the Bible did not know Jesus, did not live in the same country or in the same time, we can only understand Christianity by the way Jesus lived his life, and that he felt the need to preach differently from the religion of the time.

Jesus's lived his life by the values of:

PACIFISM

FORGIVENESS

GENEROSITY

Will the real fundamentalist Christians please stand up? I can't hear you!

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post #160 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by srs View Post

I would also be more than happy to provide additional citations for any of these claims.

Let's see them then. Many people in this thread have already tried to tell you that 1.) is bollocks but you appear to have ignored it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srs View Post

having a mother and a father is always in the best interest of every baby.

Evidence please

Quote:
Originally Posted by srs View Post

6. Those opposing Proposition 8 do not want people in a same sex union to be properly questioned when they try to adopt young adults of their same sex for example, two married men seeking to adopt a 12-year old boy. In short, same sex couples do not want to be treated any differently than a couple consisting of a man and woman even in circumstances where there are differences and questions should be asked.

Yeah, because we all know all gays are paedophiles
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