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Apple contributes $100,000 to fight California's No on 8 battle - Page 5

post #161 of 1350
Having a father and mother is best, according to the the 1989 U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child. Also, this was concluded by France more recently, see the Summary of the French Parliamentary Commission Report on the Family And the Rights of Children (French National Assembly, Paris, January 26, 2006).

David Blankenhorn, a liberal democrat, discusses this further.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,2093869.story
post #162 of 1350
For those who have a moral issue with because of your religion, I hope you aren't eating any of the animals mentions in Leviticus...
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0311.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by arownious View Post

A.) I don't care how many customers or employees this affects, Apple still has no business supporting social issues. It is a democratic vote by the people, and everyone else needs to shut their face. The PEOPLE will decide how they want to be governed. Majority rules in a democratic situation. Deal with it. In fact, I think it will hurt Apple more, as MORE people object to the idea overall. Homosexual marriage has historically been voted down time and time again, though single legislating judges feel it is their right to over rule the PEOPLE.

B.) MARRIAGE IS NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT! I challenge any one of you to find it in the Constitution. You will not/cannot find it. So therefore, the 14th Amendment DOES NOT protect MARRIAGE (homosexual or otherwise) for it's citizens.


Do you honestly believe that civil rights like racial and woman suffrage and the abolition of slavery should be wiped out because they weren't part of the original constitution????
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post #163 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by srs View Post

What do those opposing Proposition 8 want?

1. Those opposing Proposition 8 want same sex marriage taught in school, starting with kindergarten, as being exactly the same as marriage between a man and a woman. They want this teaching campaign that sexual preference does not matter to begin even before children develop their sexual identities, which will be confusing and destabilizing to our children.

2. Those opposing Proposition 8 would like that campaign to occur at taxpayer expense, as all textbooks in California will be required to be changed to describe marriage as genderless.

3. Those opposing Proposition 8 insist that this propaganda campaign must occur without parental consent or notice.

4. Those opposing Proposition 8 want same sex couples to be able to force their right to adopt a young baby even when it will compete with and replace a family with a mother and father, although having a mother and a father is always in the best interest of every baby.

5. Those opposing Proposition 8 seek to close down adoption clinics and religious welfare agencies of those who oppose same sex marriage (just as has happened already in Massachusetts), as they place the right to same sex marriage on a collision course with the right to free speech and freedom of religion of those with whom they disagree, when those clinics are a crucial help to the people of this State.

6. Those opposing Proposition 8 do not want people in a same sex union to be properly questioned when they try to adopt young adults of their same sex for example, two married men seeking to adopt a 12-year old boy. In short, same sex couples do not want to be treated any differently than a couple consisting of a man and woman even in circumstances where there are differences and questions should be asked.

Sigh... I couldn't let this pass. As an active participant in the fight against Prop 8, I can say that NONE of the people I work with have voiced ANYTHING like the points you've listed.

Please provide links to reputable news sources for these outrageous claims.

GTSC
post #164 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by nofear1az View Post

This is not something companies should be getting involved in. They should remain politically neutral on these matters and let the govt's and states battle it out.

It's not a political matter. It's a civil rights issue. When we see something as heinous as Prop 8 rear its head, everyone should stand up and speak out against it, including companies.

Besides, Apple is a corporate citizen of California. They have infinitely more reason to speak on the issue that ALL of the major funders of Prop 8, NONE of whom are based in California.
post #165 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by YTV View Post

Sorry I'm not religious. But I do recognize that things are either right or wrong.



Its so bad, bacause its wrong. Just like pedophilia is wrong. Just like stabbing random old ladies is wrong. Just like touching your sister is wrong. Its just plain wrong.

Why would I be scared they would make me gay? That is the stupidest thing I ever heard. Would I be scared of becoming a pedophile if pedophilia was legalized or becoming a crackhead if crack was legalized? Seriously thats the stupidest shi I ever heard and makes negative 2 ounces of sense.


what part of two consenting ADULTS do you miss?

children don't give their informed consent, nice try at the FUD of misdirection.

I touch my sister, what? theres no physical contact between you and your sister? now THATS wrong. obviously you are very repressed, you afraid that if you touch someone, you cant hold back the man lust?
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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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post #166 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by srs View Post

1. Those opposing Proposition 8 want same sex marriage taught in school, starting with kindergarten, as being exactly the same as marriage between a man and a woman. They want this teaching campaign that sexual preference does not matter to begin even before children develop their sexual identities, which will be confusing and destabilizing to our children.

That's completely false, you're just buying into their propaganda.
post #167 of 1350
Why all the tension about this? really, I am 23, maybe I m young and ignorant, but really, what is the problem with guys marrying guys, girls marrying girls, and such.

I see a society where a few Christians can dictate their doctorine on everyone, this happens with many issues:
  • no "dirty words" or "graphic images" can be on TV, and who has the ruler for dirty words and graphic imagery? not a set of standards, but the unwritten and oft unpredictable whims of a wacky fringe group of Christians.
  • Abstanance education, keeping kids ignorant about their bodies is a GREAT way to curb risky behavior, and to whom do we owe thanks for this? Christian groups.
  • And abortion: I really don't like it but really, these people think that senators congressmen and presidents can change that...THEY CANT without a constitutional convention, 30 years of case law is really hard to undo, and no one president can do it, but these churches (I have attended several and heard the same at each) say that you should vote for candidate X because he is against abortion, they dont care about any other issues, and they abuse the pulpit to instill this in their congregations

All of the sudden I am inspired to coin a phrase: "Big Christianity" I want to make a distinction between the flock and the handful of rotten "shepherds" that profit at the expense of society as a whole. The organizations who appose gay marriage are giant institutions, the Liberty University, Focus on the Family, Parents TV Council, and so on. these places get their money from well meaning churches with the purist of intent, as the churches buy their supplemental teaching materials, then these orgs take their money and use it to make everything that doesn't fit their mold look "evil".

2 guys getting mrried is just fine, so what, Isnt it healthier for all of us to have those that are gay living in the open rather than having to be so secretive about it? I mean really, gay guys should not have to resort to meeting in nature preserves, just let them do what they want in the privacy of their homes or hotels like streight folks.

I truly do not understand the homophobia of my parents generation, but maybe this is the generation to change that.


(I was raised Christian and am still in that camp, although not as firmly as I used to be)

I am sorry if I offended anyone in this long winded rant, it just felt good to say it.
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post #168 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfabulous View Post

Here in Denmark Gay marriges have been legal for decades.

Why you (The States) haven´t come out of the middle ages yet regarding this issue I can´t understand???

THEREFORE I SAY GOOOOOO APPLE!!!!!!

Many children have had good upbringings and competent parenting from loving parents here, wether it was mom and mom or dad and dad parenting! IT´S ALL ABOUT THE LOVE!!! ...Not restrictions. No one can and should decide whom a person loves but the individual himself/herself!

Apple has gone "green". You don´t think that´s political!? Why is this so different? In the board room they have disgussed this and they also know that this will ensure them many new customers from generations to come. This is pleasing the youth... which is Apple´s future. So why not do the right thing AND win over a larger customer base?!

Don´t hide who you are...

Denmark doesn't have full-blown "gay marriage"- they have same-sex unions, which go a couple of steps closer to the California model. So, I guess you're still in the middle ages, huh? Tragic.

The reason why is because wherever gay marriage is fully legalized, or close to it, it marginalizes marriage, which, is the underpinning of Western Civilization. Marriage rates drop like a rock, and you wind up with a huge amount of out-of-wedlock birthrates. Most of these result in a single parent raising the child, which is hard on the kids, and gov't coffers to support the single parents. Of course, in Denmark, tax rates are so high it almost pays better to stay home than have a job- so that particular argument doesn't necessarily matter to you.

Since, according to you, it's all about love, why not brother/sister, father/daughter or hell, bestiality... let's throw in a few chickens. No restrictions, right? Why not five people getting married? I'm sure you get the point.
It marginalizes the importance of marriage.
post #169 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by YTV View Post

Its so bad, bacause its wrong. Just like pedophilia is wrong. Just like stabbing random old ladies is wrong. Just like touching your sister is wrong. Its just plain wrong.

Your argument that consensual sex between two adults is somehow synonymous with the rape of a child or an erratic violent attack shows just how little grasp you have of the topic and/or how likely that #8 will be easily opposed next Tuesday.

I am not in California, but my state had a similar proposition opposing this civil right. I proudly voted against it.
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post #170 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by YTV View Post

Its so bad, bacause its wrong. Just like pedophilia is wrong. Just like stabbing random old ladies is wrong. Just like touching your sister is wrong. Its just plain wrong.

No, it's not like any of those at all.

Those are all one person hurting another person.

Gay marriage is two consenting adults both doing something they want to do. It's pretty much the opposite of those examples.

Your "argument" is a perfect illustration that the only real objection to this is I DON'T LIKE IT. Basically "it's wrong because I (or God or Jesus) think it's wrong".

Do you see Jewish people insisting that it be illegal for everyone to eat pork? No. So quit trying to impose your religion on everyone else.
post #171 of 1350
I am in complete and utter shock.

Reading some of these comments has just alarmed me, how intolerant and prejudice people are.

I am not gay, I am a heterosexual male with a partner.

I do not know where to begin, some of the posts here convey and articulate such a unbelievably small and incapable consciousness. I do not even know where to begin with what is so wrong and medieval with the opinions and statements.

One statement regarding teaching morals and stopping children from being educated about gay marriages etc. I feel disgust and sympathy for that person, that you would shield, hide, deflect and tarnish the education of your own children. To not allow them to make a rational decision based on all the facts they can posses. To decide that you will shape their opinion on what you believe with your apparent meagre understanding of the human species.

Your own opinion was derived from what you were shown as a child, what you were taught was except-able in "society" monogamy white is superior to black etc. These are all societies constraints, 50 years ago in the USA people were not allowed to do things that are now considered fundamental rights.

Try to see the evolution of our species in the scale of history and "how the US is now is how it should be" is wrong. It is evolving (for better or worse?) and is still making its journey.

This has just reminded me how humans are not as enlightened as we make out and believe. How some people, live such a sheltered pathetic life.

Marriage is between a man and a woman.... I do not know if you people are even capable of thinking or considering possibilities.

Some people on this board are a real disgrace to the human race.
post #172 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by YTV View Post

Its so bad, bacause its wrong.

It's wrong because it's wrong! Wow, great argument

Quote:
Originally Posted by YTV View Post

Just like pedophilia is wrong.

Paedophilia is wrong because children are not fully developed adults and therefore do not have the mental or emotional capacity to consent to sexual activity. Being a victim of paedophilia is highly likely to permanently mentally, emotionally and possibly physically damage a person. Everyone has the right not to be permanently damaged in said manner and therefore peadophilia is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YTV View Post

Just like stabbing random old ladies is wrong.

Stabbing is "wrong" because we think everyone should have to right to go about their normal business without being stabbed, because being stabbed isn't much fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YTV View Post

Just like touching your sister is wrong.

If siblings don't have children together and are consenting adults how does it harm you or anyone else if they sleep together? I sincerely hope that that just made your (and all other pro-8 folk) heads explode so I don't have to read any more of your drivel.
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post #173 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

Why all the tension about this? really, I am 23, maybe I m young and ignorant, but really, what is the problem with guys marrying guys, girls marrying girls, and such.

I see a society where a few Christians can dictate their doctorine on everyone, this happens with many issues:
  • no "dirty words" or "graphic images" can be on TV, and who has the ruler for dirty words and graphic imagery? not a set of standards, but the unwritten and oft unpredictable whims of a wacky fringe group of Christians.
  • Abstanance education, keeping kids ignorant about their bodies is a GREAT way to curb risky behavior, and to whom do we owe thanks for this? Christian groups.
  • And abortion: I really don't like it but really, these people think that senators congressmen and presidents can change that...THEY CANT without a constitutional convention, 30 years of case law is really hard to undo, and no one president can do it, but these churches (I have attended several and heard the same at each) say that you should vote for candidate X because he is against abortion, they dont care about any other issues, and they abuse the pulpit to instill this in their congregations

All of the sudden I am inspired to coin a phrase: "Big Christianity" I want to make a distinction between the flock and the handful of rotten "shepherds" that profit at the expense of society as a whole. The organizations who appose gay marriage are giant institutions, the Liberty University, Focus on the Family, Parents TV Council, and so on. these places get their money from well meaning churches with the purist of intent, as the churches buy their supplemental teaching materials, then these orgs take their money and use it to make everything that doesn't fit their mold look "evil".

2 guys getting mrried is just fine, so what, Isnt it healthier for all of us to have those that are gay living in the open rather than having to be so secretive about it? I mean really, gay guys should not have to resort to meeting in nature preserves, just let them do what they want in the privacy of their homes or hotels like streight folks.

I truly do not understand the homophobia of my parents generation, but maybe this is the generation to change that.


(I was raised Christian and am still in that camp, although not as firmly as I used to be)

I am sorry if I offended anyone in this long winded rant, it just felt good to say it.

Speaking of offending people, can we make a distinction between Christians and American Christians? Don't want to offend Christians.

( i hope that liberal Americans will understand that comment in the spirit I intended )

( Speaking of liberal, when did liberal and liberty come to mean such different things to some people? )

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post #174 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by srs View Post

I think it is pointless and silly for Apple to be making a stance on these issues. Especially being that in California same sex couples receive virtually the same legal protections as married couples; namely rights of property, tax rights, retirement program rights, employment rights, and other legal benefits. I am completely in favor of all these benefits and hope to see them adopted nationwide.

But here are a few points to explain why I am voting YES on Prop 8. My position is the same as both presidential candidates and their running mates (as were clearly stated in recent VP debate) in maintaining the traditional definition of "marriage" as being between one man and one woman.

I would also be more than happy to provide additional citations for any of these claims.

What do those opposing Proposition 8 want?

1. Those opposing Proposition 8 want same sex marriage taught in school, starting with kindergarten, as being exactly the same as marriage between a man and a woman. They want this teaching campaign that sexual preference does not matter to begin even before children develop their sexual identities, which will be confusing and destabilizing to our children.

2. Those opposing Proposition 8 would like that campaign to occur at taxpayer expense, as all textbooks in California will be required to be changed to describe marriage as genderless.

3. Those opposing Proposition 8 insist that this propaganda campaign must occur without parental consent or notice.

4. Those opposing Proposition 8 want same sex couples to be able to force their right to adopt a young baby even when it will compete with and replace a family with a mother and father, although having a mother and a father is always in the best interest of every baby.

5. Those opposing Proposition 8 seek to close down adoption clinics and religious welfare agencies of those who oppose same sex marriage (just as has happened already in Massachusetts), as they place the right to same sex marriage on a collision course with the right to free speech and freedom of religion of those with whom they disagree, when those clinics are a crucial help to the people of this State.

6. Those opposing Proposition 8 do not want people in a same sex union to be properly questioned when they try to adopt young adults of their same sex for example, two married men seeking to adopt a 12-year old boy. In short, same sex couples do not want to be treated any differently than a couple consisting of a man and woman even in circumstances where there are differences and questions should be asked.


These are just a few points. You are free to disagree. By definition, tolerance means tolerating differences. I am not forcing you to agree with me, but I ask that this discussion continue in a respectful way.

Just a couple thoughts:

1. Young children understand these things better than most adults. Using this logic we shouldn't teach children multiple languages. After all if they haven't fully developed their English speaking skills another language could confuse them.

2. There are textbooks that talk about marriage?

3. What propaganda ?

4. Gender doesn't have a thing to do with being a qualified parent. Crack hoes and their pimps do not make better parents than two loving/stable homosexuals

5. Private adoption agencies can have whatever criteria they want. My sister works for one that requires the parents to be Christian. Do I think it's right? No, but I respect that private organizations have that right.

6. There is a difference between pedophiles and homosexuals.
post #175 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmoser View Post

Denmark doesn't have full-blown "gay marriage"- they have same-sex unions, which go a couple of steps closer to the California model. So, I guess you're still in the middle ages, huh? Tragic.

The reason why is because wherever gay marriage is fully legalized, or close to it, it marginalizes marriage, which, is the underpinning of Western Civilization. Marriage rates drop like a rock, and you wind up with a huge amount of out-of-wedlock birthrates. Most of these result in a single parent raising the child, which is hard on the kids, and gov't coffers to support the single parents. Of course, in Denmark, tax rates are so high it almost pays better to stay home than have a job- so that particular argument doesn't necessarily matter to you.

Since, according to you, it's all about love, why not brother/sister, father/daughter or hell, bestiality... let's throw in a few chickens. No restrictions, right? Why not five people getting married? I'm sure you get the point.
It marginalizes the importance of marriage.

Are you in the US? I ask, because with a greater than 50% failure rate as it is, marriage has marginalized its validity itself without gays. Britney Spears didn't need gays to invalidate her 55 hour wedding either. When straight people get their crap together, then let's talk again about the validity and importance of the institution.

And again, children and animals are not able to enter into binding contracts. That is a false argument.
post #176 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

Speaking of offending people, can we make a distinction between Christians and American Christians? Don't want to offend Christians.

I guess that is what I meant by "big Christianity" mopst christians, in and outside the US find the actions of these groups downright horrible, and I was trying to express that. I am a Christian, but I cant stand these organizations. The rank and file US christians are just inadvertantly contributing via tithes and such.
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post #177 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

That's completely false, you're just buying into their propaganda.


I don't think so. The following instances are not "propaganda" but actually occurring now.


Just a few weeks ago, a first grade public school class in San Francisco was taken on a field trip to a lesbian wedding at City Hall, officiated by Mayor Gavin Newsom. School officials said they wished to provide their five and six year old students a teachable moment.

This week in Hayward, CA: Parents at a K-8 charter school in Hayward were shocked to learn this week the extent to which their school is promoting gay and lesbian ideals to their daughter in kindergarten. The parents were shocked to see a poster announcing that "Coming Out Day" will be celebrated at the school this coming Thursday, October 23.

More widely known, there is the book "The King and King" distributed and used in public elementary schools in Boston.


I think it oversteps the purposes of the public schools to push any of this, especially in elementary schools. And by changing the definition of marriage, parents have no legal right or reason to object.
post #178 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

I guess that is what I meant by "big Christianity" mopst christians, in and outside the US find the actions of these groups downright horrible, and I was trying to express that. I am a Christian, but I cant stand these organizations. The rank and file US christians are just inadvertantly contributing via tithes and such.

Desmond Tutu for president. ( Is it too late? )

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post #179 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by srs View Post

I don't think so. The following instances are not "propaganda" but actually occurring now.


Just a few weeks ago, a first grade public school class in San Francisco was taken on a field trip to a lesbian wedding at City Hall, officiated by Mayor Gavin Newsom. School officials said they wished to provide their five and six year old students a teachable moment.

This week in Hayward, CA: Parents at a K-8 charter school in Hayward were shocked to learn this week the extent to which their school is promoting gay and lesbian ideals to their daughter in kindergarten. The parents were shocked to see a poster announcing that "Coming Out Day" will be celebrated at the school this coming Thursday, October 23.

More widely known, there is the book "The King and King" distributed and used in public elementary schools in Boston.


I think it oversteps the purposes of the public schools to push any of this, especially in elementary schools. And by changing the definition of marriage, parents have no legal right or reason to object.

heaven forbid children learn about more than one view or opinion.
post #180 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by digiology View Post

I believe the best darwinian explanation of homosexuality I've found is that homosexuals tend to act as support for their family and extended family (there is statistical evidence for this outside modern societies) since they're less likely to have kids. Their relatives are therefore more likely to have offspring that will survive and so similar genes are spread which indirectly propagates genetic homosexual predispositions.

Interesting theory but I am not sure that there is much empirical evidence to support this. If there is, please refer me to to the appropriate scientific studies.

I think that it is equally or perhaps more likely (based Occam's razor) that homosexuality is simply a maladaptive behavior resulting from genetics and/or the failure of behavioral imprinting. It takes a lot of arm waving to explain how reduced individual fitness results in increased group fitness. Perhaps this is so sometimes, but on many occasions it is probably simply maladaptive.

Please note, however, that morality is a different issue than evolutionary adaptiveness because many things that are moral are maladaptive and many things that are immoral are adaptive.
post #181 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariofreak85 View Post

Just a couple thoughts:

1. Young children understand these things better than most adults. Using this logic we shouldn't teach children multiple languages. After all if they haven't fully developed their English speaking skills another language could confuse them.

2. There are textbooks that talk about marriage?

3. What propaganda ?

4. Gender doesn't have a thing to do with being a qualified parent. Crack hoes and their pimps do not make better parents than two loving/stable homosexuals

5. Private adoption agencies can have whatever criteria they want. My sister works for one that requires the parents to be Christian. Do I think it's right? No, but I respect that private organizations have that right.

6. There is a difference between pedophiles and homosexuals.

1. I disagree that young children have fully developed their sexuality. Let them develop it on their own.

2. Yes, but that may be a stretch.

3. "The King and King"

4. I agree that same sex couples may provide a much better environment than crack hoes or pimps. I also agree with the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child that a child deserves a mother and father.

5. Not true. And this is what is most important. As of March 2006, Boston Catholic Charities was forced to pull out of adoption services, rather than comply with Massachusetts law that requires adoption agencies not to discriminate against homosexual couples.

6. True, but this could legally not be investigated or considered.
post #182 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by YTV View Post

Sorry I'm not religious. But I do recognize that things are either right or wrong.

Its so bad, bacause its wrong. Just like pedophilia is wrong. Just like stabbing random old ladies is wrong. Just like touching your sister is wrong. Its just plain wrong.

Oh, please. Lets not bring the debate down to this level. (Whispering) But while we are down here, where can I find me one of them 'random old ladies'. My stabbing hand is getting all twitchy.
post #183 of 1350
I haven't posted this much since Peter Cohen claimed that the mini Display Port connector was part of the VESA standard.

We should take a look at one of the Windows PC forums.
I bet it's all F**K, KILL, Burn in hell!

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post #184 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

If siblings don't have children together and are consenting adults how does it harm you or anyone else if they sleep together? I sincerely hope that that just made your (and all other pro-8 folk) heads explode so I don't have to read any more of your drivel.

Ha ha ha ... Hilarious!
post #185 of 1350
Wow! As a non-Usan it is sometimes easy to forget just what a spooky place the States has become (or perhaps has always been). Some great replies from the thinking people though! Just a couple of points. It always strikes me, a heterosexual male of mature years, that when someone is convinced that homosexual desire is a "choice" then perhaps there are areas their own sexual landscape that they have left unexplored. I've never had a homosexual experience, not because some bonkers millionaire preacher (fresh back from a two-hour session of having crystal meth shoved up his jacksy by a rentboy in a seedy motel on the I-whatever) is telling me that to do so would plunge me screaming into an eternal lake of fire, but because I just do not find men sexually attractive. Not at all. Not even the few good looking ones. It's not conditioning, it's innate, and if you have ever spoken to a gay man you will doubtless discover that it is the same for him. Some are, most aren't, and if two people love each other and want to commit themselves to each other on a life-long basis... well what exactly is the problem? Whatever happened to 'Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness'?

Along with others here I applaud Apple for taking a stand against bigotry and intolerance. To those that have threatened to flounce off (in a very manly testosteronal way obviously) to Vista I support your decision, you sound like you should get on fine with each other. Besides, every single Apple product ever sold honours another great (homosexual) man, Alan Turing. He was the mathematical genius behind 'Colossus", the first true modern computer that was built at Bletchley Park in World War 2. With this they broke the German 'enigma' code, and so Turing was one of the most important figures in the wining of that conflict. However he was gay, and was caught doing something gay (not good in 1950s Britain), and was driven to suicide by the same hate-filled blackness exhibited by some here. He got an apple, painted cyanide on it, took a bite and died. An apple with a bite out of it. Sound familiar?
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post #186 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by srs View Post


Just a few weeks ago, a first grade public school class in San Francisco was taken on a field trip to a lesbian wedding at City Hall, officiated by Mayor Gavin Newsom. School officials said they wished to provide their five and six year old students a teachable moment..

You're leaving out very pertinent facts.

1. All children must have parental permission to go on any field trip outside of school.

2. All 18 parents gave permission for their children to go on this field trip. This was NOT done without their consent.

3. The children did not attend the wedding, but waited outside City Hall to greet their schoolteacher and her new married partner after the ceremony was over.

Your issues lie with the "liberal" parents who allowed their children to attend this event, not the school district. If it were so controversial, and so potentially damaging to children, the majority of parents would not have allowed their children to attend. But they did. However, two parents opted their children out of the field trip, as is their right under California law.

Try again.

GTSC
post #187 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by eepmatt View Post

It's not a political matter. It's a civil rights issue. When we see something as heinous as Prop 8 rear its head, everyone should stand up and speak out against it, including companies.

Besides, Apple is a corporate citizen of California. They have infinitely more reason to speak on the issue that ALL of the major funders of Prop 8, NONE of whom are based in California.


Certainly Apple Inc. has the right to speak out on this issue, but many of their customers also have the right to feel alienated by that position. Companies that enter the political arena do it at the peril of loosing customers.
post #188 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleAnt View Post

Certainly Apple Inc. has the right to speak out on this issue, but many of their customers also have the right to feel alienated by that position. Companies that enter the political arena do it at the peril of loosing customers.

"There are certain customers that we choose not to serve"

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

Reply

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

Reply
post #189 of 1350
Don't let the door hit you where another guy can pinch you.
post #190 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

Ask God if he discriminates. He does discriminate, because he knows what is good for us and what is not good for us. He created bounds and limits for us, and discriminates between what's in bounds and what's out of bounds in terms of behavior. He discriminates, and does it in love. Sometimes he says 'no', with love.

ugh. and if you don't believe in God...
and furthermore, why legislate your beliefs? I know you believe God doesn't want gays to marry... but why does that affect whether our country or state should allow them to? If God disapproves of an action, let Him deal with it, you don't have to.
post #191 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by srs View Post

4. I agree that same sex couples may provide a much better environment than crack hoes or pimps. I also agree with the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child that a child deserves a mother and father.

Crack Hoes and pimps? Over dramatic much? I know two people brought up by same sex couples - two separate families - and I would argue that both of them were brought up by a father and a mother in the sense that I believe the idea of a father and a mother is meant. I also happen to know a couple of people who definitely wish they had never been brought up by their father and mother. Both, I am pretty certain would have preferred not to have had their fathers in the house at all. The idea of a 'father and mother' in a child's life is more complex than it first sounds. What do you honestly think is worse, a child being brought up by a caring and responsible couple (same sex), and a child being brought up by by an alcoholized married couple of which the man beats the shit out of his child on a regular basis?
post #192 of 1350
Please learn the proper use of words before you use them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I say it's unethical to deny people the same rights you have to a full, happy life simply because you don't care for their natural race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, height, weight, gender, cranium phrenology or any other aspect of their person that is biologically originated.
post #193 of 1350
My movie pick of the week is: 'Hate Crime'

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

Reply

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

Reply
post #194 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric42 View Post

First, as a public company they shouldn't contribute to something that (obviously) doesn't represent all of their investors.

Because the removal of firewire in the macbook was supported by all investors...

Grow up people. If you dislike their move, dump your stock. People on this planet have a responsibility to fight for what they believe in; Apple is doing that, and I support their effort. Many of you forget this is a California company... not a Houston on. Seriously, grow up people. Apple has huge sums in the bank, 100k won't be too sorely missed.
post #195 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

Since the authors of the Bible did not know Jesus, did not live in the same country or in the same time, we can only understand Christianity by the way Jesus lived his life, and that he felt the need to preach differently from the religion of the time.

Jesus's lived his life by the values of:

PACIFISM

FORGIVENESS

GENEROSITY

Will the real fundamentalist Christians please stand up? I can't hear you!

He also stood up for God's moral values. Jesus/God was against murder, adultery, stealing, lying, cheating, etc. Also, pertaining to this thread, he considered homosexuality immoral.
post #196 of 1350
Can someone lock this thread? Getting a tad out of control here...
post #197 of 1350
I was not going to read the article - but Im glad I did.

As a gay man in CA I thank Apple for taking a stance in favor of my Civil Rights.
post #198 of 1350
If you don't like what Apple is doing, then don't buy their products. Go with crappy PCs or worse, Zunes (lol). If you don't think that the company should get into the issues like Prop 8, then you should tell those religious freaks to stay out of it, too. It's a basic civil rights issue. I'll totally support Apple on this one!!
post #199 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by emoney35 View Post

He also stood up for God's moral values. Jesus/God was against murder, adultery, stealing, lying, cheating, etc. Also, pertaining to this thread, he considered homosexuality immoral.

You have no clue if Jesus or God was against homosexuality.

It has never been a part of Christianity that Jesus or God wrote the Bible.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

Reply

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

Reply
post #200 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleAnt View Post

Certainly Apple Inc. has the right to speak out on this issue, but many of their customers also have the right to feel alienated by that position. Companies that enter the political arena do it at the peril of loosing customers.

Well I think it's a good thing that Apple is loosing customers. They should never have tied them up in the first place. Come on Mr H you're slacking!
Believe nothing, no matter where you heard it, not even if I have said it, if it does not agree with your own reason and your own common sense.
Buddha
Reply
Believe nothing, no matter where you heard it, not even if I have said it, if it does not agree with your own reason and your own common sense.
Buddha
Reply
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