or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Apple contributes $100,000 to fight California's No on 8 battle
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple contributes $100,000 to fight California's No on 8 battle - Page 20

post #761 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

Swhat you gays really want in an in your face way to annoy the rest of us.

And you know this how, exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

Self serving perverts,

Nope, none of those in the hetero ranks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

we do not want your sexuality on public display.

Speak for yourself, thanks.
post #762 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJD2112 View Post

A-MEN. I couldn't have written it better myself .

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

well yeah, I'm with ya 100% on that one. I think they should be dumping massive money into the top killers and stop wasting so much freakin money on crap like Viagra. Yeah, great, it helps some old people enjoy their lives more then they are 70+. Great, that's awesome that some old dude can get a hard on and we have hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people dying from Malaria every single year since we decided to, effectively, ban DDT...

Viagra is of low cost to manufacture and by it's original intent was just a side-effect observation that has turned into a billion dollar boon for the pharmacons.

Cancer isn't going anywhere and Viagra makes these companies truck loads of money to divert some back into Cancer research.
post #763 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJD2112 View Post

Wow... just... wow. You have some serious anger issues. I wouldn't even know where to begin with you other than I wish you well.

Nice deflection. You managed to mock the man's observations by implying they are deranged without any evidence to back it up. Now actually address his statements or ignore them and move along.
post #764 of 1350
I've seen this thread turn into a giant cosmic cloud of tangential thoughts scattered across the full spectrum of people's personal demons to their fetishes.

Back on topic: Publicly traded corporations backing moral issues in the political arena violate their purpose of existence.

If Apple and Google want to back such civil minded issues then form a non-profit, have a member from each company sit on a board and work to resolving this amidst federal lawmakers.

Otherwise, get back to work and refine your products while providing compelling reasons for consumers to buy them.
post #765 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Nice deflection. You managed to mock the man's observations by implying they are deranged without any evidence to back it up. Now actually address his statements or ignore them and move along.

Actually, I did, on Oct 26th (if you read the thread instead of attempting to insult people and failing you may have learned something)...

My comment was:

I'm saddened...
...that some people have chosen to use their fear and bigotry to legalize hate. Please, do not quote the bible. No one knows who it was written by, and for that matter, the bible may easily be spun to support ANY position (let us not forget that many used the bible to support slavery. To quote Coretta Scott King:

"I appeal to everybody who believes in Martin Luther King, Jr.s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbians and gay people, (August 1, 2002) - may she rest in peace.

As someone who has studied the bible, many passages claim extreme religious views. Within the pages of the bible it advocates stoning disobedient children to death, makes it unlawful to wear fabric of mixed fibers or to eat anything from the water that has no fins or scales. It advocates slaughter and annihilation of "others" and those who don't conform. In the pages of the bible women are given over to gang rape and dismembered. Parents are told they must amputate bits from the penis of their sons. And we should admire such "wisdom" and look to it as a guide? I think not. It is a collection of fables, often with strong political agenda. Why should it be accorded more merit than Grimms Fairy Tales? How many of you would qualify for a stoning?

The bottom line, the people who cry fowl the most have something to hide. Let us not forget Mark Foley and Sen. Larry Craig, politicians who were extremely vocal in their opposition to homosexual rights. Guess what? THEY'RE GAY. Most heterosexuals who are comfortable with their sexuality don't care what two consenting adults do in their own homes. Why do two people who love each other, who vow to be with one another, threaten you so much? The Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints gave MILLIONS to support Prop. 8, think of what all that money could have done to feed the hungry, give shelter to the poor. The real Jesus would have wanted that. If you truly believe in God and religion, then you would know that God created all men as equals, and loves all men unconditionally. Homosexuality has been proven to be genetic. More and more scientific evidence supports this reality. Who in their right mind would willingly chose to be hated, denied the same rights as heterosexual individuals, or be beaten and left for dead as Matthew Shephard (the FBI released statistics that have show sharp rises in hate crimes against homosexuals, most don't get reported in the news. A 15 year old named Lawrence King was shot twice in the back of his head by his fellow class mate this year in California, a gay couple is beaten or harassed every 15 minutes and all anyone can do is quote an antiquated book called the bible that talks about unicorns and stoning, it's RELIGULOUS).

I do not care what your personal beliefs are, but do not impose them on any one else. Two people are free to love each other, that does not infringe on your rights. All this amounts to is hatred and insecurity. If you truly care so much go out and do something positive, work in a homeless shelter, donate to groups who actually do positive work such as animal rescue or Habitats for Humanity. We live in a world in which more people rely on religion to start wars, and no one can even state with any certainty if what is written is fact. No one knows. What is fact is the here and now. Denying someone else the same rights that others have is bigotry, I do not care how you justify it. Putting a laughing emoticon after your statements of hate only solidifies that fact. Further, contrary to what someone stated, most people do not believe in laws such as Prop 8. In fact, the polls are now turning AGAINST it, as more and more people are breaking from the fear mongering of the conservative right and waking up to the reality that WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEINGS. If you truly believe that homosexuals are less than human, then you are no further from the individuals who justified enslaving Africans. You are a bigot.
Psst, there's a war in Darfur...
Reply
Psst, there's a war in Darfur...
Reply
post #766 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

She is correct, what you gays really want in an in your face way to annoy the rest of us. Self serving perverts, we do not want your sexuality on public display.

Hmmm...It turns out that Apples market share is exactly proportional to gays as a percentage of the population.You don't own a Mac do you?
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #767 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

Men and women were also designed to go together because we are different in personality and spirit, and compliment each other.

Designed? by whom? Whatever your belief in god (mine being non-existent), it has no place in secular govt, so if that's your answer for why gay marriage shouldnt be permitted... here's a copy of the constitution, please refer to amendment 1 on your way out the door.

Quote:
Little boys like adventure and shooting games and swashbuckling. Little girls like dressing pretty and twirling in tutus and playing house.

I'd love to see you tell that to my violent game playing, tool wielding fiance.

Quote:
When we grow older and find a partner, strength melds with beauty, and the two compliment each other and become one. Our differences complete us

I've seen a great deal of gay and lesbian couples do just that you know.In general, I have to point out that, in fact, opposites do *not* attract when left to our natural devices, particular when the educational playing field and other such opportunities are leveled. Look up the term social propinquity. In addition to finding people of similar economic and social standing, people are also more likely to marry those with similar interests, quite often from the same workplace or school.

Quote:
Children need both as parents; they miss out on one or the other when there are only 2 dads or 2 moms.

The only peer review data I've seen on the issue that hasn't been debunked says quite the opposite. While it's been seen that in some cases there is a benefit to 2 *parent* households, the sex of the parents is insignificant. Additionally, the "normal" family doesnt exist in the US anymore and hasnt for ages if it ever really did. Between multi-generational homes, same-sex households, single parents, sibling age differences contributing to raising, etc, we have a *very* large makeup of types of households.

The contributing factor for raising a kid well is care and time.

Quote:
It's been said that when a society begins to lose gender distinction, it's in its final throes. You can see it in progress in the great old U. S. of A.

Where is it said? In your right-wing masturbatory fantasy of a world without those different from you?
MBP (15, 2.33, 3GB,10.6/win/lin on 250GB)
MP (3,1 oct 2.8, 10GB. 10.6 on 4x1TB RAID10, Win/Lin on 1x2TB, 2407WFP on 1x5770 + 2xSamsung 910t on 1xGT120)
also a lot of other systems :-p
I met a...
Reply
MBP (15, 2.33, 3GB,10.6/win/lin on 250GB)
MP (3,1 oct 2.8, 10GB. 10.6 on 4x1TB RAID10, Win/Lin on 1x2TB, 2407WFP on 1x5770 + 2xSamsung 910t on 1xGT120)
also a lot of other systems :-p
I met a...
Reply
post #768 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraklinc View Post

WTF is gay marriage? i mean if you wanna be with someone of your same sex for the rest of your live so be it, but why would they even want to get marry on top of that. Apple please stop flushing shareholders money down the toilet and let People do what ever the heck they wanna do as long as it doesn't affect the company

What people do outside of the company is NO ONES BUSINESS. I think Apple is out of place supporting any agenda. Business is business and personal is personal.
post #769 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by seek3r View Post

Designed? by whom? Whatever your belief in god (mine being non-existent)The only peer review data I've seen on the issue that hasn't been debunked says quite the opposite. While it's been seen that in some cases there is a benefit to 2 *parent* households, the sex of the parents is insignificant. Additionally, the "normal" family doesnt exist in the US anymore and hasnt for ages if it ever really did. Between multi-generational homes, same-sex households, single parents, sibling age differences contributing to raising, etc, we have a *very* large makeup of types of households.


Gee.. you hit the head of the nail directly on. Homosexuality rises... Families decrease...You are actually supporting his argument here. It is because we've had the break down of the family that homosexuality has risen.
post #770 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by POd View Post

Man do you have it wrong. Is being Gay just as wrong as being Black was in the 60s or being a Woman in the 80s. All these arguments, religious and not, are the same ones used against Black and Women's rights, just tweaked a little differently for this situation. Change is coming...GET USED TO IT!

Dude.. this is NOT the same thing.. Gay people love to talk about Gay being a Physical characteristic.. this has NEVER BEEN PROVEN. Hello.. It's a THEORY! Being Black/White/Asian is a Genetic thing just like being white.. It's not the same thing.
post #771 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

Gee.. you hit the head of the nail directly on. Homosexuality rises... Families decrease...You are actually supporting his argument here. It is because we've had the break down of the family that homosexuality has risen.

I come from a single parent household and neither myself or brothers and sisters are gay.Out of all the people I know only one person I know of is gay and he comes from a two parent home, who are male and female and are still happily married in their seventies.What evidence do you have?
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #772 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

Gee.. you hit the head of the nail directly on. Homosexuality rises... Families decrease...You are actually supporting his argument here. It is because we've had the break down of the family that homosexuality has risen.

::blinks::

Huh?

OK, let me be more blunt. The "nuclear" family hasnt really been true of most americans. Certainly not true of many immigrant families (mostly multi-generational, very often with older siblings playing as much of hand in raising as the parents - which is whom most of us are descended from). BTW there is no correlation let alone evidence of causation of that to homosexuality, nor should the lack of a "normal" family even be considered a bad thing to begin with.

My point was that the idea that seemingly most conservatives keep trying to make that a 2 het parent, household is inherently better than, say, a 2 homosexual parent household (or many other forms of households) is false and has never been shown in any peer review study that has held up under scrutiny. The opposite, however, has.

Somehow that flew right over your head
MBP (15, 2.33, 3GB,10.6/win/lin on 250GB)
MP (3,1 oct 2.8, 10GB. 10.6 on 4x1TB RAID10, Win/Lin on 1x2TB, 2407WFP on 1x5770 + 2xSamsung 910t on 1xGT120)
also a lot of other systems :-p
I met a...
Reply
MBP (15, 2.33, 3GB,10.6/win/lin on 250GB)
MP (3,1 oct 2.8, 10GB. 10.6 on 4x1TB RAID10, Win/Lin on 1x2TB, 2407WFP on 1x5770 + 2xSamsung 910t on 1xGT120)
also a lot of other systems :-p
I met a...
Reply
post #773 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I come from a single parent household and neither myself or brothers and sisters are gay.Out of all the people I know only one person I know of is gay and he comes from a two parent home, who are male and female and are still happily married in their seventies.What evidence do you have?

Umm dude.. that's hardly evidence. if it were.. it would be just as valid of the three homosexual's I know who came from broken homes/abusive where i came from a non-broken home/abusive home and I'm not gay.
post #774 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

Umm dude.. that's hardly evidence. if it were.. it would be just as valid of the three homosexual's I know who came from broken homes/abusive where i came from a non-broken home/abusive home and I'm not gay.

Again,what studies prove your point.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #775 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Again,what studies prove your point.

The Same ones that back up yours..
post #776 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

The Same ones that back up yours..

I don't argue that the break-up of the traditional family structure creates gays.If you think it does based on your experience that's fine with me.As far as I know their is no evidence from any study ever done to prove your point though.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #777 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

I don't like McCain's plan all that well either as it would tax whatever my company is paying for my insurance but with 5k you can easily get insurance and I think allowing the people to decide what's best for them is better than a "one plan fits all" premise.

Don't you have ANY insurances in the US that you are legally obliged to take out? Serious question.

We do. Certain basic things you are legally obliged to ensure. Basic healthcare for instance.
Hospitals are obliged to help anyone, people are obliged to be insured. There is a relation between benefits and responsabilities in that logic.
We believe that to be able to garantuee healthcare for anyone, people need to be insured. This system isn't perfect for everyone either, but garantuees the same (very) basic healthcare for all citizens. You can take out extra insurances if you want.

There are more, to cover what we consider to be basic human needs. In most cases this type of insurance is payed for by taxes.We consider a part of our taxes as "citizen's insurance".
You have to be ensured for acidental damage against others. Welfare is seen as public insurance against unemployment. As is a basic pension for everyone. Companies must have certain insurances for themselves and their workers. ..., ...
post #778 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I don't argue that the break-up of the traditional family structure creates gays.If you think it does based on your experience that's fine with me.As far as I know their is no evidence from any study ever done to prove your point though.

You see.. it works both ways.. There is no proven evidence that it doesn't either. Sometimes though.. it doesn't take a rocket scientist.
post #779 of 1350
apparently many scientists agree it's a complex development that has biological and environmental roots...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology...al_orientation
post #780 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_Agniello View Post

apparently many scientists agree it's a complex development that has biological and environmental roots...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology...al_orientation

Actually.. Scientists DO NOT AGREE. Especially about the Biological Part

http://www.narth.com/docs/istheregene.html

It's only a theory that it's biological, Not as "proven" as the media makes it out to be.
post #781 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

You see.. it works both ways.. There is no proven evidence that it doesn't either. Sometimes though.. it doesn't take a rocket scientist.

I believe that there is no evidence that the break-up of families produces gay children or adults.Abuse happens in both non and traditional families and I don't know what the studies on that are.
In cultures like Iran gays are under real pressure not to be openly gay because their lives and their famililies lives would be put in danger.So as their President Armadinajad said publicly at an American University "there are no gays in Iran." Society puts pressure on people to conform to it's wants.So, in a system where there is no fear to be openly gay it may appear that the percentage of gays has risen,since more restrictive times,whilst say, as the percentage of traditional families have broken down, has risen,but that does not mean that the two are in any way related.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #782 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

Actually.. Scientists DO NOT AGREE. Especially about the Biological Part

http://www.narth.com/docs/istheregene.html

It's only a theory that it's biological, Not as "proven" as the media makes it out to be.

Thanks for the link.Being totally uninformed as to research done into this area I found that interesting.
There is a 50% chance that a twin is going to be gay if the other twin is gay.Your favoured viewpoint holds that that confirms an environmental attribution however I would see that as pointing to a genetic cause.Siblings close in age or even from different parents and very similar ages but in very similar environments have a substantialy smaller chance of being gay.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #783 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

She is correct, what you gays really want in an in your face way to annoy the rest of us. Self serving perverts, we do not want your sexuality on public display.

Ahh! Now we see your true colours.

All your talk about the constitution, the meaning of marriage and the will of the majority was simply a smokescreen for your bigotry and homophobia.

I should have realised this when your only response to my analogy with the 'minority' Civil Rights Movement was to put your fingers in your ears.
post #784 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Namdnal Siroj View Post

Don't you have ANY insurances in the US that you are legally obliged to take out? Serious question.

We do. Certain basic things you are legally obliged to ensure. Basic healthcare for instance.
Hospitals are obliged to help anyone, people are obliged to be insured. There is a relation between benefits and responsabilities in that logic.
We believe that to be able to garantuee healthcare for anyone, people need to be insured. This system isn't perfect for everyone either, but garantuees the same (very) basic healthcare for all citizens. You can take out extra insurances if you want.

There are more, to cover what we consider to be basic human needs. In most cases this type of insurance is payed for by taxes.We consider a part of our taxes as "citizen's insurance".
You have to be ensured for acidental damage against others. Welfare is seen as public insurance against unemployment. As is a basic pension for everyone. Companies must have certain insurances for themselves and their workers. ..., ...

Actually no, there is no mandate to have health insurance but there is a mandate to treat anyone who walks into the hospital in need of medical assistance. As I had mentioned earlier this is part of the reason premiums are so high. It certainly is a flawed system, I agree, but, as I said, I just don't think a one size fits all plan is the way to go.
post #785 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Viagra is of low cost to manufacture and by it's original intent was just a side-effect observation that has turned into a billion dollar boon for the pharmacons.

Cancer isn't going anywhere and Viagra makes these companies truck loads of money to divert some back into Cancer research.

I certainly hope it does but I just can't help but wonder what their returns are when they are spending so much money on advertising. I can't watch a football game without every single commercial break having a viagra/cialis commercial on. If you have ED are you really that unaware of what's out there that by seeing 15 ED commercials during 1 football game is going to make you get up and call your doctor?

Ideally they are in fact using those profits to work on other medicines, ones that will really benefit humanity as a whole but I'm concerned they aren't doing that. Right now there are pharmaceutical companies spending millions of dollars to create a "viagra for women." Unlike the original viagra which was a mistake (as you pointed out) they are actually now working on medicine with the sole purpose of creating the "viagra for women."

But, to a point I do agree with you. Viagra is bringing in loads for money for these guys and I hope they are investing that money back into research for diseases that plague humanity.
post #786 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

Actually.. Scientists DO NOT AGREE. Especially about the Biological Part

http://www.narth.com/docs/istheregene.html

It's only a theory that it's biological, Not as "proven" as the media makes it out to be.

\ You can't use the word 'Scientist' and then post a link to a self serving, pseudo scientific, discredited organisation.

http://thewildreed.blogspot.com/2008...ing-narth.html

A far more scientific and unbiased report can be found here:

http://www.livescience.com/health/08...sexuality.html

The fact is neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality is a choice; If it were why would anyone choose the far more difficult option of being gay?

And why does the prevalence of homosexuality remain static; there are no more gays now than there were in the 1950s or the 1850s. There are just more that are open about it.

To repeat a challenge set by a previous poster: If being gay is a choice, then choose to be gay for a week. You don't need to perform a same-sex act (unless of course you want to ), just try to find members of the same sex sexually attractive, and fantasise about them whilst in the throes of passion.

Let us know how you get on.
post #787 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

I certainly hope it does but I just can't help but wonder what their returns are when they are spending so much money on advertising. I can't watch a football game without every single commercial break having a viagra/cialis commercial on. If you have ED are you really that unaware of what's out there that by seeing 15 ED commercials during 1 football game is going to make you get up and call your doctor?

Ideally they are in fact using those profits to work on other medicines, ones that will really benefit humanity as a whole but I'm concerned they aren't doing that. Right now there are pharmaceutical companies spending millions of dollars to create a "viagra for women." Unlike the original viagra which was a mistake (as you pointed out) they are actually now working on medicine with the sole purpose of creating the "viagra for women."

But, to a point I do agree with you. Viagra is bringing in loads for money for these guys and I hope they are investing that money back into research for diseases that plague humanity.

Pharmaceutical companies hardly spend anything for research.They want that money for jets and mansions.Most research is done by universities withought pharmaceutical funding.Only when they see financial gain do they invest in research.They're exploitative money grabbers who don't give a damb about your health.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #788 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJD2112 View Post

Actually, I did, on Oct 26th (if you read the thread instead of attempting to insult people and failing you may have learned something)...

My comment was:

I'm saddened...
...that some people have chosen to use their fear and bigotry to legalize hate. Please, do not quote the bible. No one knows who it was written by, and for that matter, the bible may easily be spun to support ANY position (let us not forget that many used the bible to support slavery. To quote Coretta Scott King:

"“I appeal to everybody who believes in Martin Luther King, Jr.’s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbians and gay people,” (August 1, 2002) - may she rest in peace.

As someone who has studied the bible, many passages claim extreme religious views. Within the pages of the bible it advocates stoning disobedient children to death, makes it unlawful to wear fabric of mixed fibers or to eat anything from the water that has no fins or scales. It advocates slaughter and annihilation of "others" and those who don't conform. In the pages of the bible women are given over to gang rape and dismembered. Parents are told they must amputate bits from the penis of their sons. And we should admire such "wisdom" and look to it as a guide? I think not. It is a collection of fables, often with strong political agenda. Why should it be accorded more merit than Grimms Fairy Tales? How many of you would qualify for a stoning?

The bottom line, the people who cry fowl the most have something to hide. Let us not forget Mark Foley and Sen. Larry Craig, politicians who were extremely vocal in their opposition to homosexual rights. Guess what? THEY'RE GAY. Most heterosexuals who are comfortable with their sexuality don't care what two consenting adults do in their own homes. Why do two people who love each other, who vow to be with one another, threaten you so much? The Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints gave MILLIONS to support Prop. 8, think of what all that money could have done to feed the hungry, give shelter to the poor. The real Jesus would have wanted that. If you truly believe in God and religion, then you would know that God created all men as equals, and loves all men unconditionally. Homosexuality has been proven to be genetic. More and more scientific evidence supports this reality. Who in their right mind would willingly chose to be hated, denied the same rights as heterosexual individuals, or be beaten and left for dead as Matthew Shephard (the FBI released statistics that have show sharp rises in hate crimes against homosexuals, most don't get reported in the news. A 15 year old named Lawrence King was shot twice in the back of his head by his fellow class mate this year in California, a gay couple is beaten or harassed every 15 minutes and all anyone can do is quote an antiquated book called the bible that talks about unicorns and stoning, it's RELIGULOUS).

I do not care what your personal beliefs are, but do not impose them on any one else. Two people are free to love each other, that does not infringe on your rights. All this amounts to is hatred and insecurity. If you truly care so much go out and do something positive, work in a homeless shelter, donate to groups who actually do positive work such as animal rescue or Habitats for Humanity. We live in a world in which more people rely on religion to start wars, and no one can even state with any certainty if what is written is fact. No one knows. What is fact is the here and now. Denying someone else the same rights that others have is bigotry, I do not care how you justify it. Putting a laughing emoticon after your statements of hate only solidifies that fact. Further, contrary to what someone stated, most people do not believe in laws such as Prop 8. In fact, the polls are now turning AGAINST it, as more and more people are breaking from the fear mongering of the conservative right and waking up to the reality that WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEINGS. If you truly believe that homosexuals are less than human, then you are no further from the individuals who justified enslaving Africans. You are a bigot.

Well I don't know how to do that parsed quote deal so I'll just respond as a singular, continuous point.

Just because you do not agree with someone else's views doesn't mean they haven't as much a reason for their views as you do yours. I, obviously, do not agree with you but I respect the fact that you have come to your conclusion with much thought and consideration. If you were truly against hate you'd extend the same courtesy to those with different views than your own.

No offense intended to Coretta Scott King here but she's not MLK Jr - she is giving her view on the subject and invoking the knee jerk reaction by mentioned MLK Jr. Now I'm certain she believes in what she's saying but by playing the MLK Jr card she's trying to appeal to people's emotions rather than their intelligence.

I'm glad you've studied the bible but if all you come away from it with is stoning and circumcision (amongst other things) then I would suggest you read it again and perhaps this time talk to a person who specializes in it (a pastor with a theology major). I won't disagree that that things you have mentioned are in there I just think you're missing the point.

There's absolutely no proof to be had that Larry Craig is gay, I know there's a big push for using that as a "gotcha" moment but you've really got nothing to stand on for that one - it's pure conjecture on your part.

You are referring to the same Jesus that went into the temple and threw out all the people who were selling stuff right? Violently I might add. He wasn't the 100% pacifist that you seem to think He was. Also, I don't think anyone here is suggesting that we stone homosexuals or condone the horrible acts that were and are being done to homosexuals across this country by people who are off their rocker so to speak.

You are still missing the point. By voting either for or against Prop 8 you are, in fact, attempting to impose your views on the state as a whole. Who's to say your view is any more valuable than other persons view? In fact it isn't, you get 1 vote just as everyone else does and their contribution to the voting process is just as significant as yours.

Lastly, you still haven't pointed me to a poll that suggests that most people are accepting of same-sex marriage and as we have seen time and again polls are nothing more than PC watered down opinions. 26 states currently have constitutional amendments defining marriage as between a man and a woman and those are just the states with amendments - there are 19 more with laws expressing the same view so that's 45 of 50 states...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-se...Current_status
I'm sorry but the numbers are quite clearly on my side of this argument.

Lastly, your intolerance of views opposite of your own reeks of both grandstanding and bigotry on your part. Please, take your own advice and respect the views of others. As I said, I do not agree with you but I respect the fact that you've come to your conclusion through study and thought - you should take your own advice and extend the same courtesy to those who hold a view in opposition of your own.
post #789 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephenbw View Post

\ You can't use the word 'Scientist' and then post a link to a self serving, pseudo scientific, discredited organisation.

http://thewildreed.blogspot.com/2008...ing-narth.html

A far more scientific and unbiased report can be found here:

http://www.livescience.com/health/08...sexuality.html

The fact is neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality is a choice; If it were why would anyone choose the far more difficult option of being gay?

And why does the prevalence of homosexuality remain static; there are no more gays now than there were in the 1950s or the 1850s. There are just more that are open about it.

To repeat a challenge set by a previous poster: If being gay is a choice, then choose to be gay for a week. You don't need to perform a same-sex act (unless of course you want to ), just try to find members of the same sex sexually attractive, and fantasise about them whilst in the throes of passion.

Let us know how you get on.

That's an awesome link! I'm now on the hunt for a woman with a gay brother.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #790 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

Lastly, your intolerance of views opposite of your own reeks of both grandstanding and bigotry on your part. Please, take your own advice and respect the views of others. As I said, I do not agree with you but I respect the fact that you've come to your conclusion through study and thought - you should take your own advice and extend the same courtesy to those who hold a view in opposition of your own.

The problem for me here is not what other's people's views are. I am ready to accept other people's intolerance and or bigotry as they accept mine. But there is a difference when the individual's rights are directly affected. You may not like gays, you may find the thought of two people of the same sex loving one another (and making love) abhorrent and immoral, but if you accept that all people are essentially equal you tread on very shaky ground when you wish to deny some of those people the very rights you yourself value so highly. By all means, campaign against homosexuality but denying rights is a whole different ball game.
post #791 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

The problem for me here is not what other's people's views are. I am ready to accept other people's intolerance and or bigotry as they accept mine. But there is a difference when the individual's rights are directly affected. You may not like gays, you may find the thought of two people of the same sex loving one another (and making love) abhorrent and immoral, but if you accept that all people are essentially equal you tread on very shaky ground when you wish to deny some of those people the very rights you yourself value so highly. By all means, campaign against homosexuality but denying rights is a whole different ball game.

That directly plays into my point. Who's to define what a "right" is? To me, the "right" is having the state recognize the union and this proposition does nothing to oppose that and in fact allows for all the same legal rights as marriage does, so exactly what right is being violated? If marriage is nothing but a word than why are people so adamant about having it? You can have all the legal benefits with a civil union/domestic partnership. It seems like a circular argument, at least to me. People want marriage and argue that saying it's sacred is silly because it's just a word but if it's just a word then what's the big deal about getting that word? So, either 1) the word is significant thus legitimizing the claim of those who say you shouldn't use the word to define something in contrast to its historical intent or 2) the word holds no significance and thus what's the point of having it?

I'm not saying same-sex couples should be afforded all the rights of opposite-couples - all I'm saying is that arguing is that there is no additional legal right that comes from a marriage vs a civil union so it's a bad argument. Now if there were no civil unions or other ways to gain the legal benefits I think that should be established for sure but redefining something as historically significant as marriage doesn't seem like an intelligent avenue to pursue.
post #792 of 1350
Way to go Apple



___________________
iPhone, iPod
Reply
iPhone, iPod
Reply
post #793 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

...with 5k you can easily get insurance and I think allowing the people to decide what's best for them is better than a "one plan fits all" premise.

Really? In California it costs about $7,200 per year for an individual health insurance for a 23 year old male without any prior health issues. That rate is discounted and not otherwise found in the marketplace too. It's a CORBRA plan from State employment. That 5k is also taxable. You will therefore only have 3-4k for health insurance.
Cubist
Reply
Cubist
Reply
post #794 of 1350
Wow, very logical. Only problem, just because the two things appear to be happening at the same time doesn't mean there's a correlation. The break down of the family has nothing to do with the homosexuality being on the rise, as you state.

People are becoming more open minded and tolerant, allowing more gay people to not be fearful and to come out. It has NOTHING to do with the break down of the family.

The family structure is "breaking" because the couple now typically both work and have career goals. Often, neither is willing to make sacrifices in order to have a family. This either leads to choosing to not have children or neglected children. Also, people marry almost on a whim nowadays. Marriage used to mean something, not to be entered into lightly, and people fought harder to make it work. Now marriages are disposable to many people. Kids are raised surrounded by this attitude and learn that it's acceptable. They see it on TV, they see it at home, they see it in their friends' homes, and they learn that it's okay to have "starter marriages".

But let's blame gays for this, because gays are such convenient targets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

It is because we've had the break down of the family that homosexuality has risen.
post #795 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead View Post

Only problem, just because the two things appear to be happening at the same time doesn't mean there's a correlation.

Actually, there could be a correlation. The key is that correlation doesn't equal cause.

One of the funniest examples I can remember to demonstrate this is an article I spotted a few years ago that suggested that parents not wearing seat-belts caused their children to be obese! Some survey had been conducted that showed there was a high correlation between parents not wearing car seat-belts and their offspring being fat, and someone drew a radically idiotic conclusion.
it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
Reply
it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
Reply
post #796 of 1350
And I believe that was his point. There is no empirical data either way, thus no evidence. You were the one to connect the breakdown of the family to the "rise in homosexuality".

First, just because people are more open to talking about it and more people are coming out as being gay doesn't mean there are more gay people per capita. It just means they're not hiding anymore.

This reminds me of a trip I did to Charleston, SC. I expected not to find a gay community whatsoever. What I found was quite the opposite. So many married gay men, living a double life, cheating on their wives with other men. To me, this was very wrong and very sad. I felt bad that these poor women didn't know what was going on with their husbands. However, the conservative south doesn't allow gay men to come out. Gay bashings, hatred and intimidation keeps gay people in the closet. The need to conform is great, yet one cannot deny what he knows to be true inside, so gay men fool around on the side. Historically, this was always the case. Now that people actually talk about the issue and gay people feel more comfortable being themselves, homosexuals don't feel the need to be in hiding so much.

But that's what the bigots and hate mongers are worried about, right? Don't legitimize homosexuality so it will stay invisible and we can all pretend it doesn't exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by webraider View Post

Umm dude.. that's hardly evidence. if it were.. it would be just as valid of the three homosexual's I know who came from broken homes/abusive where i came from a non-broken home/abusive home and I'm not gay.
post #797 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead View Post

The family structure is "breaking" because the couple now typically both work and have career goals.

I think the reason is simpler.
Women today are able to get work and survive independently.
In the past, this lack of opportunity forced them to stay with abusive partners. Now there is more freedom.

The Taliban (and their North American clones) are not happy with that.

C.
post #798 of 1350
Yes, correct. I was simply referring to people who are already married or have a family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

I think the reason is simpler.
Women today are able to get work and survive independently.
In the past, this lack of opportunity forced them to stay with abusive partners. Now there is more freedom.

The Taliban (and their North American clones) are not happy with that.

C.
post #799 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

I think the reason is simpler.
Women today are able to get work and survive independently.
In the past, this lack of opportunity forced them to stay with abusive partners. Now there is more freedom.

The Taliban (and their North American clones) are not happy with that.

C.

Look at the far right wanting to decapitate people 102 blacks- they should just all move to Afghanistan where they really belong.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #800 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead View Post

The family structure is "breaking" because the couple now typically both work and have career goals. Often, neither is willing to make sacrifices in order to have a family. This either leads to choosing to not have children or neglected children. Also, people marry almost on a whim nowadays. Marriage used to mean something, not to be entered into lightly, and people fought harder to make it work. Now marriages are disposable to many people. Kids are raised surrounded by this attitude and learn that it's acceptable. They see it on TV, they see it at home, they see it in their friends' homes, and they learn that it's okay to have "starter marriages".

Yes, times have changed and people may have become more selfish and commit themselves too easily to undertakings they can not carry through, but I think it is way too simplistic to blame the "breakdown of the family structure" on the above. I am not at all convinced that being trapped in an unhappy marriage is a better option. I suspect there were many many more unhappily married couples 50 years ago. Not to mention unhappily married gay men and women. What a dreadful predicament! It is complicated to live in a permissive world but to live in a world governed by a restrictive moral code would be absolute hell.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Apple contributes $100,000 to fight California's No on 8 battle