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Apple contributes $100,000 to fight California's No on 8 battle - Page 3

post #81 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Wow, your response to Frugality was so much more elegant and human than mine. Thanks.

Therein lies the problem....the arguments are of human origin. Seek the arguments that are God's arguments. I'd love to go more into that, but I have the feeling that wouldn't go over well with this crowd... (and could get banned or locked, because we live in an intolerant society...)
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post #82 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mebbert View Post

That is incorrect. Proposition 8 will not take away any rights from gays and lesbians so far as insurance, hospital rights, etc.

The biggest issue is that gay marriage will be taught to kids in school (as early as Kindergarten). Parents should have the right to teach their kids morals. It should not be controlled by the government. For that matter, I don't think marriage should be taught at all in school, but I guess that's for another debate.



This is simply not true. In fact, California State Superintendent of Schools Jack O'Connell has come out publicly and stated that prop 8 WILL NOT effect what is taught in public schools. Additionally the California Teachers' Association is encouraging all CA citizens to VOTE NO on Prop 8.
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post #83 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklehead View Post

Or maybe homosexuality has benefits in the whole scheme of life, a benefit not obvious to the population (such as sickle-cell anemia). There was research recently indicating that homosexuals benefited heterosexual couples in that there was little to no competition with the heterosexuals yet they contributed with parenting, food gathering and protection, thus increasing viability of offspring.

That sounds biologically reasonable. There is also a scientific argument that while it's not normal, as in "the norm", it's a very natural part of being a complex, sexual dimorphic species. If a person can be born with both sexual organs, in other words a simultaneous* hermaphrodite, why can't a person be born with the physical organs of one sex but with the phycological sexual orientation of another? The Lord works in mysterious ways. Of course, you'll find many who think that hermaphrodites don't exist despite clear evidence throughout nature and that homosexuality is a choice, despite the assurance that thy never had to choose if they are asked.

PS: The movie Religious is quite funny. Bill Maher talks to a guy in Winter Park, Florida who runs a company that teaches people to not be gay. Both him and his wife used to be gay, so he must know what he is talking about.


* As opposed to sequential hermaphrodites, like what was talked about in Jurassic Park.
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #84 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd Reich View Post

Because when the kids at school find out the adopted kid has 2 gays for parents he will get his butt kicked all thru school.

I'm not sure what your point is. How is your comment any different than saying a school shouldn't let in a black kid because he'll get his butt kicked? Or if his parents are blind, or deaf, or in a wheelchair?

And really, if you're going to create an account to troll, "3rd Reich"? So much for subtlety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

Why do we discriminate against adults having consensual sex with children?

Why do we discriminate against marrying a dog our a goat?

Children and animals aren't considered to be in a position to consent. Bogus comparisons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric42 View Post

I feel this is a tremendously bad move on Apple's part.

First, as a public company they shouldn't contribute to something that (obviously) doesn't represent all of their investors. I liken it to a union contriubting to a political campaign or party. No matter who they support it's very likely that a large segment of the membership will fundamentally disagree with the decision.

Second, why take a side? As a company who should be in the business of selling its products to the general population why risk alienating a large segment of that population. This is especially true given the polarizing nature of this particular issue.

If this were years back and the issue were ending slavery or segregation, or giving women the right to vote, would you feel the same way?
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post #85 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

This thread is going to be fun!

I do understand why various religions don't want to acknowledge certain legal unions as marriage, and I agree with that. The Catholic church won't marry various heterosexual couples if they aren't both Catholic. They have that right, but to not allow a legal union because of sexuality is a Civil Rights violation.

For comparison, it was only in 1967 that the Supreme Court ruled in Loving v. Virginia that interracial marriages were a civil right. How long before the Supreme Court makes it unconstitutional for those Red States to deny gay marriage?

That is one reason I support Prop 8. At some point legalized gay marriage will be forced on religious sects, and churches will be sued unless they perform gay marriages. That goes beyond tolerating this disgusting behavior. That infringes on my rights and my beliefs.

Why not legalize polygamy? That's a case where political parties have stopped a religion from the right to their beliefs.

Seems the political left is a little one sided to me.
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post #86 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by StudioVoxPop View Post

This is simply not true. In fact, California State Superintendent of Schools Jack O'Connell has come out publicly and stated that prop 8 WILL NOT effect what is taught in public schools. Additionally the California Teachers' Association is encouraging all CA citizens to VOTE NO on Prop 8.

Hell, if Prop 8 passes and gay marriage is banned, the schools should start teaching kids about homosexuality just to piss off the bigots.
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post #87 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:17pm
Why Gay Marriage Is Wrong (Humor): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYPVISQR9fY

This thread is hilarious. And they say gays are drama queens.
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post #88 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:17pm
Thank you, Apple!
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post #89 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd Reich View Post



This from a company who had a rainbow Apple logo in the past. With the company so close to the city of Nancy boys ( San Francisco) got to figure of them whispered the idea to Jobs when they were sharing a night of love. He is way too thin and stylish to be hetro.

The Republik of Kalifornia is already the laughing stock of the nation leting the Nancy's marry will only add fuel to the fire. Why should a lousy 2 % of the population dictate terms to the majority?

Ban gay marriage and execute those 4 judges who saw that we voted against this before and told us our votes do not count

What a waste of money.

For you Nancy boys who want gay marriage go suck a pickle


Marriage used to only be between two people of the same race. For 98 years that was the law in California until the California Supreme Court declared the law unconstitutional in 1948 (Perez v. Sharp). Those people who argue that gay marriage doesn't fit the "traditional" definition of marriage and that gay marriage will ruin the institution are using the same exact argument racists in California used to justify keeping the ban on interracial marriages. It was wrong then and it is wrong now. Note No on Prop 8.
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post #90 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabu22 View Post

This is simply wrong.
Marriage is between a man and a woman. What's next......allowing people to get married to a member of their own familiy............or peradventure their dog (after all don't we love our animals),cat,etc.......My rights are being taken away when I can't marry a object. When,where does it stop? I love my toothpaste - can I marry that? Why not?
Apple should not be getting involved into politics. It will only divide and exclude people.


Marriage used to only be between two people of the same race. For 98 years that was the law in California until the California Supreme Court declared the law unconstitutional in 1948 (Perez v. Sharp). Those people who argue that gay marriage doesn't fit the "traditional" definition of marriage and that gay marriage will ruin the institution are using the same exact argument racists in California used to justify keeping the ban on interracial marriages. It was wrong then and it is wrong now. Note No on Prop 8.
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post #91 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

For those who a "pro" prop 8, please explain exactly how two people of the same sex who love each other getting married adversely affects you or anyone else in any way. Seriously, there are much better things to get pissed off about e.g. torture, child abuse, etc. etc. try directing your energies towards ridding the world of things like that before you start trying to interfere with other people's loving relationships.

Explain why?! It's not a matter of affecting one on a personal level, but it will eventually as the society reaches lower and lower levels. If you don't care that the mores of the society go to shit then by all means let's all support this.

Want proof? All societies of the past have been destroyed solely due to the lowering of the mores of that society. Every single one.

It's unethical for two members of the same sex to engage in sexual intercourse let alone marriage.
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post #92 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:19pm
AKA Canada, we have had Gay/Lesbian marriage since 2003 and there has been no destruction of our society. That Apple has taken the proper step of taking a stand against an improper ideal.

The more companies that are willing to be socially responsible the better this world will be.

I am proud of them for taking some the funds that I have invested in them (stock holder for 12 years) for the good of others.

What truly saddens me is that so many people are so insecure as to feel threatened by something that in the end has NO effect one them.
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post #93 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:19pm
I will regretfully not be buying products from Apple for a year and perhaps longer.

I will also not be purchasing Apple stock.

Gay marriage is not just a civil rights issue it is also a moral issue. I object to my government blessing as acceptable what I view as immoral and against biological nature.

I have no objections to civil unions provided they are available to anyone who wants to establish a domestic partnership irregardless of sexual relations or not.

The thousands of dollars that I have spent on Apple products over the years won't make much of a difference but it will make me feel better and perhaps others will magnify the impact.

If Apple wants to vote with their dollars, I will vote with mine.
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post #94 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:20pm
Null.
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
<(=_=)> (>=_=)> <(=_=<) ^(=_=^) (^=_=)^ ^(=_=)^ +(=_=)+
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Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
<(=_=)> (>=_=)> <(=_=<) ^(=_=^) (^=_=)^ ^(=_=)^ +(=_=)+
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post #95 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by myviews View Post

At some point legalized gay marriage will be forced on religious sects, and churches will be sued unless they perform gay marriages.

Are you high?

The catholic church has forbidden women from becoming priests for centuries and I'll be shocked if that ever changes. You really think people can get religions to change by suing them?
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post #96 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by myviews View Post

That goes beyond tolerating this disgusting behavior. That infringes on my rights and my beliefs.

If we jump back only a handful of decades I'm sure those exact words were stated about interracial marriage. Are you really that intolerant of people acting as God and/or nature made them? I bet the idea that we'll have a black president in under 2 weeks must keep you up at night.
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #97 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiltBear View Post

JOKE: a little self deprecating humor to highlight the ridiculousness of the term: The Gay Agenda

The Homosexual Agenda

6:00 am Gym

8:00 am Breakfast (oatmeal and egg whites)

9:00 am Hair appointment

10:00 am Shopping

12:00 PM Brunch

2:00 PM

1) Assume complete control of the US Federal, State and Local Governments as well as all other national governments

2) Recruit all straight youngsters to our debauched lifestyle

3) Destroy all healthy heterosexual marriages

4) Replace all school counselors in grades K-12 with agents of Colombian and Jamaican drug cartels

5) Establish planetary chain of "homo breeding gulags" where over medicated imprisoned straight women are turned into artificially impregnated baby factories to produce prepubescent love slaves for our devotedly pederastic gay leadership

6) Bulldoze all houses of worship

7) Secure total control of the INTERNET and all mass media for the exclusive use of child pornographers

2:30 PM Get Forty Winks of Beauty Rest to prevent facial wrinkles from stress of world conquest

4:00 PM Cocktails

6:00 PM Light Dinner (soup, salad, with Chardonnay)

8:00 PM Theater

11:00 PM Bed (du jour)


damn, I was so busy with bulldozing houses of worship I forgot to get my beauty sleep.

I heart you KiltBear.
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post #98 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:25pm
It's my opinion that the government shouldn't be issuing marriage licenses at all. It should be a contractual agreement between people that doesn't involve the government except in cases of fraud or dishonest dealing. As long as children are protected, we could enter into domestic contracts that might be prepared by a church or a lawyer or the office supply store.
Cubist
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Cubist
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post #99 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:26pm
Gay marriage would eliminate the validity of Brittany Spears' 55 hour marriage. Duh.

The "morals of society" have been getting destroyed since, oh, I don't know, since society began. This is a false argument that pretends the family lives of Lassie and Leave it to Beaver were actually once real "in better days". They never were. Not in reality or in caricature.

LOL at the "straight" drama queens here.
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post #100 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:27pm
thnx apple, a good thing to do!!!
vista = virus inside switch to apple
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vista = virus inside switch to apple
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post #101 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

Therein lies the problem....the arguments are of human origin. Seek the arguments that are God's arguments. I'd love to go more into that, but I have the feeling that wouldn't go over well with this crowd... (and could get banned or locked, because we live in an intolerant society...)

And therein lies another problem... my understanding of God's arguments would go to defeating Prop 8, not upholding it. I'm sorry, but as humans, we can only come from a point of understanding that is colored by our humanness. As much as either of us try to understand what is intended for us by a higher power, it is pure hubris to think that either one of us really and truly understand.

And if you you launch into an argument on Faith, you will find that we will differ on what Faith means as well. For to me, Faith means being willing to ask more questions when I am frightened as opposed to believing that all the answers worked out.
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post #102 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:28pm
Prop 8 offend me in a worst way, I'm hetero and not a USA citizen.

If this prop ever get passed, the american spirit will be a little more dead.
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post #103 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

The catholic church has forbidden women from becoming priests for centuries and I'll be shocked if that ever changes. You really think people can get religions to change by suing them?

You are right that as a religion they are not forced, but the Catholic church has made women priests (or something like it but under a different term) despite Pop John Paul's 1994 statement saying that women could not be ordain as such. But the reasoning has nothing to do with equality, but with the Catholic church being short on staff.
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #104 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPeon View Post

Want proof? All societies of the past have been destroyed solely due to the lowering of the mores of that society. Every single one.r:

I thought that the Roman Empire became unable to sustain itself because of the devaluation of currency to pay the army and widespread slavery that cut off the flow of currency.

Talk about service sector jobs.
MacBook Pro C2D 2.4GHz and a battle-scarred PowerBook G4 1.33GHz

"When you gaze long into a dead pixel, the dead pixes gazes also into you"
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MacBook Pro C2D 2.4GHz and a battle-scarred PowerBook G4 1.33GHz

"When you gaze long into a dead pixel, the dead pixes gazes also into you"
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post #105 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mebbert View Post

Bad. Apple should stay out of it.

Its actually good. Apple and Google can show that they're not ignorant, like you.
Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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post #106 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by random bob, a.r.c. View Post

Such hatred for others, who wish you no harm. It makes no logical sense.

I believe a number of people here feel very threatened by something or other, and as everybody knows the best form of defense is attack. Of course, the people who are under attack in this context are not themselves actually attacking anybody which leads one to wonder exactly what the people now doing the attacking in order to defend themselves feel that they are defending themselves against. Could it be fear of the unknown in itself or might it be that they do not know what will happen to them if they got to know the unknown and the unknown no longer became so fearsome. What would that say about them? Well, chill... nobody's gonna think you are gay if you are not. And if you are, aren't you glad you found out?
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post #107 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

I don't understand the need for gay people to get married. The only reason that gays want it is because heterosexuals have it. I think we should just get rid of marriage altogether from the state and federal level. Everyone files their income tax as an individual, and gets their own health insurance as an individual. You want to get married? Fine, go do it in your favorite place of worship or whatever. There would be no benefit to being married as far as our government goes. Go marry a goat for all anyone cares.

I agree completely that marriage should be defined separately in religion and not in law, so that religions can have their own practices and the law just deal with practical issues like insurance etc. They should remove the term 'marriage' from the law to make that clear.

I also agree that we should all be individuals and define our rights individually, eg: I can just tick a set of checkboxes: hospital visitation, insurance, inheritance, etc.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #108 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Dear God, please don't debate the merits of Gay Marriage on this website. Write a letter to the editor but seriously folks, this debate is futile. The question here is whether a company should use its money, in a time of uncertainty to champion moral or ethical or whatever you classify gay marriage as an issue. It sends a strong message, to be sure, but is it the right message to be sending at this time? Wouldn't that money be better spent feeding the poor of this country than establishing an even stronger rapport with the gay community?

Someone I can agree with.
Hard-Core.
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Hard-Core.
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post #109 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That sounds biologically reasonable. There is also a scientific argument that while it's not normal, as in "the norm", it's a very natural part of being a complex, sexual dimorphic species. If a person can be born with both sexual organs, in other words a simultaneous* hermaphrodite, why can't a person be born with the physical organs of one sex but with the phycological sexual orientation of another? The Lord works in mysterious ways. Of course, you'll find many who think that hermaphrodites don't exist despite clear evidence throughout nature and that homosexuality is a choice, despite the assurance that thy never had to choose if they are asked.

PS: The movie Religious is quite funny. Bill Maher talks to a guy in Winter Park, Florida who runs a company that teaches people to not be gay. Both him and his wife used to be gay, so he must know what he is talking about.


* As opposed to sequential hermaphrodites, like what was talked about in Jurassic Park.

Great posts Solipsism. Agreed, Religelous is quite funny. Maher is the man..
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post #110 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:35pm
Presumably, those who support Prop 8 to protect traditional marriages are just trying to protect themselves from the state breaking up their families and forcing them to have homosexual sex.

Right?

Extreme right?

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #111 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleAnt View Post

I will regretfully not be buying products from Apple for a year and perhaps longer.

I will also not be purchasing Apple stock.

Gay marriage is not just a civil rights issue it is also a moral issue. I object to my government blessing as acceptable what I view as immoral and against biological nature.

I have no objections to civil unions provided they are available to anyone who wants to establish a domestic partnership irregardless of sexual relations or not.

The thousands of dollars that I have spent on Apple products over the years won't make much of a difference but it will make me feel better and perhaps others will magnify the impact.

If Apple wants to vote with their dollars, I will vote with mine.

GOOD. One ignorant person less for apple. I don't think Apple will miss you. Boycott all you want. What, you gonna stop using Google too. Then you should throw a stone at one of their satellites?

Is this so moral? Then we should protest against divorce, one-parent adoption and importing kids from another countries.
Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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post #112 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality View Post

Therein lies the problem....the arguments are of human origin. Seek the arguments that are God's arguments. I'd love to go more into that, but I have the feeling that wouldn't go over well with this crowd... (and could get banned or locked, because we live in an intolerant society...)

Being of human origin myself, I don't find falling back on God compelling. Seems like a cosmic cop-out to me. The fact that I don't believe in God notwithstanding. As far as being banned is concerned, I believe the Christian majority has a well documented record at being the leaders in that field. Anyway, nice disputing with you. It is clear we'll never see eye-to-eye on matters of faith.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #113 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPeon View Post

Explain why?! It's not a matter of affecting one on a personal level, but it will eventually as the society reaches lower and lower levels. If you don't care that the mores of the society go to shit then by all means let's all support this.

Want proof? All societies of the past have been destroyed solely due to the lowering of the mores of that society. Every single one.

It's unethical for two members of the same sex to engage in sexual intercourse let alone marriage.

I HATE unethical behavior. Those damned elephants, rats, caribou, dogs, raccoons, cats, chickens, emus... oh shit, this is going to take all night. Just go look for yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...exual_behavior
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post #114 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleAnt View Post

I object to my government blessing as acceptable what I view as immoral and against biological nature.

Thou shalt not kill.

Your government REVELS in it, but where were the Christians then?

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #115 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

Thou shalt not kill.

Your government REVELS in it, but where were the Christians then?

oh snap.
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post #116 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:49pm
I'm not going to debate the issue of gay marriage here on these boards because it's pointless. Both sides are set in their ways and feel that they're right and/or morally superior. So, have at it, guys and gals.

instead, I will offer a couple of links here, then do something more productive. I will continue to donate money to No on Prop 8, and work the phone banks to call undecided voters in order to counter the lies--yes, LIES--that the Yes on Prop 8 folks are pushing in their ads.

Don't believe me? That's fine. Here's a little video that exposes the five lies that the pro-8 crowd is selling you, and the truth behind the claims: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-pSye9W7FY

Oh, and the Yes on 8 crowd are now resorting to blackmail-like tactics to gain support: http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/23/4145

I applaud Apple for their role in stopping discriminatory legislation, which is motivated by fear tactics. It's the worst kind of politics, no matter what issue you're dealing with. I'll be working the phones for several nights next week, and I recommend this kind of participation for all of you who feel as I do. It's important to humanize this issue and make voters think about how their decision will directly impact real people who work and live among them.

GTSC
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post #117 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

Thou shalt not kill.

Your government REVELS in it, but where were the Christians then?

Wicked comment!
Now the question is, do I approve or disapprove? Do I think you are wicked or not. You have already said you are not gay, but you can still be wicked!)
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post #118 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

GOOD. One ignorant person less for apple. I don't think Apple will miss you. Boycott all you want. What, you gonna stop using Google too. Then you should throw a stone at one of their satellites?

Is this so moral? Then we should protest against divorce, one-parent adoption and importing kids from another countries.

Agree, but can we start at the top of the list? WAR

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #119 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPeon View Post

It's unethical for two members of the same sex to engage in sexual intercourse let alone marriage.

I say it's unethical to deny people the same rights you have to a full, happy life simply because you don't care for their natural race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, height, weight, gender, cranium phrenology or any other aspect of their person that is biologically originated.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #120 of 1352
10/24/08 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I HATE unethical behavior. Those damned elephants, rats, caribou, dogs, raccoons, cats, chickens, emus... oh shit, this is going to take all night. Just go look for yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...exual_behavior



Last time I checked I was a sentient being not an animal. But hey, you are free to be whatever you want to be.
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