Mac touch FTW!! - Page 3

well, i was gonna reply, but then you throw out the insults you fool!!11!!1!!

;P

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ok, WHY is it obvious? detail the whys, make it irrefutable show us the way..

you ever read any of the RDM articles where Dansays "Apple should..." "and heres how/why"

Well i see a lot of "Apple should", from you, but no "heres how" or "heres why", except the "because I think they should" which is hardly an argument.

I believe I could equally announce the Bottled water thing, because like, teh steeve drinks teh water.

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I have on occasion said multi touch on the Mac would be good/cool and then you get the non functional limb people saying "oh woah is me for i am too feeble to hold up my arm all the time apple would be teh doomed if they did this in the iMac"

which is just so much whinging, I gave up. because these people can't see past their noses, Apple would not kill the mouse, so you use that, and then when software comes along that makes use of multitouch, you can use it, OR NOT. Some people don't seem to see that.

HOWEVER a tablet is a different ball of string, it WILL be underpowered, can't you hear the "oh but the macbook has .1Ghz more" or fill in the difference yourself.
It will be "required" by wishful thinking, to last for a week on one charge (you've seen the complaints about the iPhone 3G)

and it will be fairly niche for just about everyone EVEN YOU! just like the MacBook Air already is, go on, tell me you have changed your mind about that and are prepared to buy one!
Don't you think the "mac touch" will have limitations that you don't want, just like more or less every Apple product ??

you admit that the "Mac touch" would have niche appeal BUT you say, lots of them, still time and time again it has been proven that hardware platforms need a "killer App" to help gain mass acceptance, WHERE would the "Mac Touch" killer App be? what would it be?

the best hope I see is as an ebook reader, but believe me, Steve thinks the iPhone/Touch are quite good enough thank you, mainly because they are so pocketable.

OK I need me dinner!

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And to answer Macronin, if we didn't disagree, what would be the point? if everyone at Apple, said WOAH this is great, do you honestly think they would put out as FEW REALLY GOOD products?

I've asked some questions, I'd like to see them answered first before you convince me, and so far, nothing has convinced me, mainly because what I've asked for hasn't been addressed

Very well said.

I don't think that was sarcasm but thanks for pointing out that sentence, it was a tad mangled.

I think it reads a bit better now. Musta been hungry!

no it's not, I agreed with you.
Cheers

Thats what you say, what makes you right? I mean all I'm asking is that you go into detail an provide something that isn't just "because they should, it makes sense" I'd like to hear a rational argument for WHY it makes sense. IF its so obvious then how hard could it be for you to answer this stuff?


well, given the iPhone, I'd be more inclined to agree with you if you just said "bring it to OSX" because, like, thats already happened.

Looking at it though, you want Apple to innovate, but at the same time you want Apple to do it in a natural way, so "switching" over to all multi touch on a "PC" isn't gonna wash to a lot of people (like I pointed out over the resistance to the idea on an iMac) I see Apple bringing in MT bit by bit. you mention windows7 pfft. really? when will that ship? and don't believe the FUD m$ spew, those dates will be pushed back, just look to history for the evidence of that.

Apple already have MT on their core OS OSX on the iPhone, and are bringing it to the trackpad on the new MacBooks, now the question is how do they evolve that to "stay ahead" but at the same time not alienate end users? and here you are shouting MacTouchFTW!!

well, no.

Where is the NEED for a tablet?

Bill Gates has been heralding the dawn of tablet computing as THE thing for around 10 years now, so, like where is it? wheres the demand? surely if the demand was there over ten years ago, then, like, there would be a market?

have you got yearly sales figures for WW tablet sales?

Steve will be looking to grow the business and asking "Wheres the market?"

so, where is it?

Its all well and good saying there are lots of niches it could fill, but it needs to have market adoption before you attract the Devs in enough numbers to develop apps that will fill those niches........ it's very much a chicken and egg situation.

So, what is similar that has worked.

The iPhone and the App store. just look at the success of the app store, "selling" apps at a far faster rate than the iTunes store originally sold music.

but what is the difference?

the iPhone and Touch had been out for over a year first, they had MILLIONS of sales with the core device (OS), and so there was already a user base to attract the Devs, the chicken sold very well before the dev roosters saw that there was a way to make omelettes! AND THEN SELL THEM!!

SO the touch had a killer App, it was an iPod, and the iPhone had a killer app, it was a phone/ipod/mobile internet device.

the killer apps sold the device (helped by the momentum of iPod) and once the devs could be brought on board to look how big the slices of omelette pie were, we see the success grow.

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So where is the killer app for a mac tablet?

its not portable so why would i cart it about for music?
it will likely have a SSD so it would be expensive, never mind if i just fill it up with media files.
it would be less pocketable that an iphone or touch, so I'm gonna have to NEED to bring it with me, cos if theres a choice and i DONT think i need it, then i'll just bring my iPhone.. it will be left at home.

I could go on, but I won't.

the only possibility I see (right now) that allows for it to exist as a product, is if it runs FULL OSX and SSD prices come WAY down for a given capacity (would need to start at 128GB)

but the major thing is, IF Apple can grow their core user base to above 15% of the PC using world, lets say 18-20% of all computer users are running OSX, then there might be room for this to be a hobby.

why?

because by then you may have attracted the attention of enough Devs to "possibly" support this device in all those niche areas.




glad you can acknowledge that!


Apple arnt going to compromise?

so what is the MacTouch then if it isnt a compromise between portability and power, cool to own, but what do i really need it for?


and it didnt "come out of" Apple, Apple bought the tech.

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Are Apple working on this?

yeah, pretty silly if they wernt, but then what else are they working on and have worked on that we never hear about?

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bottled water factory?

there is a great need in the US for new jobs, Apple could use some of the 20B plus dollars they are sitting on to provide jobs in that area, I mean, it makes sense

no probs

A clam shell gives you a self supporting screen for free. Notably with a usable keyboard. When the tablet is siting on its pop out support just how do you expect to interact with it? It comes down to the concept of usability which a device propped up like this just won't have.


Again how will you interact with this screen when it is tipped out to 17 degrees or so. You can't as to much of the screen is to near the desktop it is sitting on. Unless of course you mean a screen that is tilted up 17 or so degrees from horizontal. In that case you have an even worst human factors issue. Not to mention an issue with viewability

I would say there is no where in there where you will find a sweet spot. But don't believe me mock up one and see how usable it is in either the tilted vertical or horizontal arrangement. Something like this might be passable as an adjunct to the rest of the iPod line as a video iPod but that is about it. Even then a handheld iPod will out sell it handily. Devices like these are best offered up as content deliver vehicles not tablet computers.

Dave

so, thats your retort? thats your argument? thats how you hope to persuade people?

jeez, you sound like the McCain campaign.

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Anyhoo, Happy Halloween

yeah, so why not stick with a full keyboard, and err, put some kinda scrollable surface on there that uses MT gestures.. oh.. wait! that sounds like a MacBoo.. never mind



I guess Neck strain isn't something that exists in his version of reality.. for a start its too much of an ergonomic issue to deal with..


agreed, there isn't the mass market for it.

The killer app for the Mac touch?

Educational market, replacing textbooks…

"But my iPhone is a good eBook reader…!"

Maybe for some, but do most REALLY want to be looking at that TINY screen ALL day long…?

And if you REALLY think about it, a slate tablet brings the educational market 'full circle', from the slate tablets that used chalk as a medium 'back in the day', to the modern digital slate tablet that uses a variety of inputs (multi-touch, stylus, keyboard) now. Put the Mac touch on one side of a Trapper Keeper style nylon 'binder', with a BT keyboard on the other & a position-able divider that sits between the two as a screen protector. Have an adjustable restraint to allow the 'binder' to open all the way, with the keyboard portion wrapped around back of the tablet for slate use. Tighten the 'binder' for laptop style use when needed. The 'binder' would also help protect the tablet from the everyday bumps that school kids would inflict on it.

Another (admittedly, niche market) killer app? Digital comics! If I could get a digital download of my comics every week, in addition to my physical printed comics, I would be all over that. I pick up my printed comics, safe in their bags & backings, and stash those away in the collection. No need to open them AT ALL, since I can read them via the digital copy on my Mac touch…! Bonus that I can read them wherever I might be with the Mac touch, something that would NEVER happen with the printed version…

A specialized market, yet hardly small, the medical field. A 10" Mac touch would fit quite well in the average lab coat pocket, would have a similar feel as a patient chart (aka clipboard), and allow more screen real estate to view vital stats & look at various scans/imagery on the go. Nobody wants to say, "Well, the patient died due to a prescription dosage problem because I couldn't quite make out the small text on my iPhone towards the end of my 36 hour shift…"

Another niche market, live sound reinforcement. Yeah, I can probably use an iPhone to 'remote control' my Logic rig, but again it comes back to screen real estate. I would rather have a 10" Mac touch for 'remote control' than the much smaller iPhone.

But the ONE TRUE KILLER APP…?!?

Digital lifestyle device. The 10" Mac touch is the front end, with an Apple Home Server/Media Center as the back end… Sitting on the end table in a charging dock, it is a digital picture frame. Sitting in the same dock on your night stand, it can also be a digital alarm clock (not to mention a portable digital monitor for home security cameras). From anywhere in the house, it is a digital controller for home automation, but with more screen real estate than an iPhone. Sitting on the coffee table, it is a handy internet/email portal, again with MORE screen real estate than an iPhone.

I think the REAL arguement for a 10" Mac touch is two-fold.

One - More screen real estate

Two - Full Mac OS X

To paraphrase Sting, from an older Dire Straits tune…

"I want my, I want my, I want my Mac touch, FTW!"

Good night Sarasota!

a gamble or placing a bet isnt really a cogent rational argument, in fact quite the opposite.

First off, thanks for the effort YOU actually bothered to put in.


ok, but its all about the willingness to go a "new way" which next tuesday will be all about in the US!! lets see.


but do I really want to invest in NEW tech that is untested, which will be like carrying around a laptop sized device anyway, which is OLD Tech that I already know works, tough sell.


interesting, the only thing is this sounds very much like you are just trying to build the new mousetrap of the Laptop, it just sounds like a disconnected laptop.

or one of those twist screen ones.

What it does point to though, is eInk, I think for this to be announced by Jobs as the next big thing, to move forward in an revolutionary way (or even a few years from now Evolutionary ) so he can announce it as " a quarter inch thin " is if it has some kind of new eInk type screen tech. light and flexible "isn't it amazing, we really think this will replace books from now on" so likely fairly cheap, well, cheap for new tech. from Apple

but thats a little bit in the future yet, i believe. Still I'd be fairly sure Apples tech trolls have screens like that in for testing.


thats so niche (AND you know it! ) I think it more likely that would come with time from a Dev/studio, great app for you to work on? that could take off, but you would need to work on DRM to avoid piracy.


don't medical personnel double check with another member of staff in your country?

again thats gotta be something that a Dev will want to work on.


ok, you have me interested, but hardly mass appeal, sound engineers only make up what percent of the music industry?


ok, ok, I think i get where your coming from, but you aren't thinking about what I asked for..

practically EVER major selling consumer item sells because it fulfils one need. Razor blades sell because Every man needs to shave. all you need is a handle.

Food sells because everyone needs to eat. all you need is a mouth.

Computers sell in the millions NOW because everyone wants to access the internet/email (just ask the kids) all you need is an ISP.

ISPs. make money, because everyone wants to be connected, all you need is a computer.

mobile phones sell because? everyone wants to be able to get in touch with everyone else. all you need is, a thumb and or a voice.

iPods sell because they are a portable music player, all you need is a computer, and ok yeah a music collection

the iPod sells because it is a music player, BUT you need a computer

think about that.

now, if you view the MacTouch as a digital lifestyle device as you suggest above, what does it need? a Computer, an internet connection, a media server, one or two docks, a security system.. and on and on.

not everyone has those, not everyone has 2 of those, not everyone WANTS those things.

so each one is niche, each one divides the potential for mass appeal, look at the problems Sony was/are having with their "multi media device" in the PS3

1. its expensive, this is a problem with new/Apple tech as well.
2. it is marketed as too many things, which confuses the purchaser.

contrast this with the Wii

1 cheap
2 only really "known" for playing games.

the PS3 doe SO much more, and is the "better" deal but which is selling better?

the item that has the killer app of pick up and play.

Apple, makes the iPod its pick up and play, once attached to your computer and filled with music, the concept already existed (walkmen)

So what do people already HAVE that needs a macTouch to make their lives better/more fun? answer this ONE thing that will appeal to the biggest market and you could well have a winner, at the right price.

but lets not worry about costs till we have the killer app FIRST.






more screen real estate? why not a microsoft big ass table? all the screen you want.

or a 24" iMac.

I think screen tech will have to change/develop into something lighter quite a bit first, its getting there, but not quite ready yet.

{perhaps a little disclosure would be good here, I only use a desktop, because of the screen size issues of working with laptops. I use a laptop now and again, but I like to get my work done in the one place, I like to have my "Zone" that I work in, the chair is right, the desk is right and i don't get disturbed.
I drool at the MacBooks now that they have become more powerful, but realise that I leave my Macs running 24/7 and usually at least one of them is doing some heavy lifting (processing) so a laptop would not "Replace" my desktop.
I use my iPhone as a web browser when I'm away from my desk top, but if I'm watching TV I WATCH it, if I want to check something like email, I make a decision as to its importance and either move to the computer, or keep watching, I'm fairly sentient and can prioritise the importance

The only Laptop that interests me at the moment is the Air, its So light, so thin, and SO not a desktop replacement, that it would have the "single use" of being a writing machine, but alas its still on the expensive side.. however I'm constantly evaluating that, and if I can I MAY just spring for one next year.

a Tablet, wouldn't have the power I need to be a desktop replacement, nor the screen size.
Wouldn't have the portability of my iPhone for music or TV/movies.
it also wouldnt have the screen size of a 13" Air, nor the "comfort" of a full sized keyboard.

so you need to work out what it WOULD have that would make me think, yeah I could get that AS WELL.

It really needs that killer App for MOST people, that isnt already filled by another device.
}

a good start, but you still haven't given the REAL killer app.

PS, if you think this is hard, then great because it IS, if you can convince me, then you REALLY will have something good

I usually bleep out my swear words... but, FUCK. That looks sweet. If not this kinda thing, what really could Apple produce in a few months time at MacWorld 2009?

Well, Steve will do two things if this tablet stuff comes through. One is create the market themselves. I mean, where the hell was the "multi-touch 3G mobile Internet communicator device" market before the iPhone 3G? There were some stirrings, a bit of WAP here, BlackBerry there, ipod somewhere nearby, etc.

The other thing, is as much as Apple doesn't like the corporate market, if this tablet thing is greenlit, is Apple will probably bring in a huge partner. Where? Healthcare. Apple needs to grow from the mobile space. There are *tons* of people who love the iPhone3G, and from an apps point of view want a bigger screen, functionality without having to carry, even something like a MacBook Air around.

Consumer, prosumer, and healthcare market (Apple would need to line up big corporate business -- possible given Steve's charisma), and Boom! A few million Mac Touch tablets sold each year.

Don't forget science and academia are big, big markets in and of themselves for Apple gear, even though proportionately Apple focuses so much now on the general consumer retail space.

Healthcare or "corporate science" (probably an ugly term, but hey...) is what I would position as the go-or-no-go last domino to fall in the "tablet wars".

Edit: Ireland, I think for something like that we need a bit more "hand grip" for left or right handers... Maybe on the underside.

Oh, and throw in e-Books*, and the tablet's pretty much here to stay. Done and dusted. Healthcare angle for business use of tablets, e-Books done right Apple tablet style, plus general purpose computing and media enjoyment, a new field of apps, GAMING, etc... BOOM!

We could almost prophesize then the final deathblows to the printed newspaper and magazine.

*Let's face it the Kindle and even Sony eBook readers are just crappy for most of the population that don't really even read much to begin with.

Thats kind of what I'm getting at, where is the ONE killer app that will sell this to the masses as something they MUST HAVE ??

I'm still waiting on an answer, not based on pie in the sky wishful thinking



OK step back from the US centric RDF koolaid fueled hype, please.

if you said where was the App store-iPhone combination before the 3G iPhone, then I might agree, but devices like this DID exist prior to the iPhone, to ignore this is silly quite honestly



exactly, to risky to go it all alone, there isn't a mass market appeal, but there may be a large niche market to establish first, and then possibly grow from


but where to? and as you point out, not on their OWN.


I've addressed these points earlier, perhaps you missed them or I wasn't clear. the iPhone is an upsell device, "if you want a bigger screen, teen, then buy a Mac."

but you "get into" Macbook Air Territory pretty fast, so again, just buy the macBook, it IS the best selling Mac according to Apple.. Why do you think that is? because its cool and it WORKS.



Define your market first, which is it?

There is so much more Apple would need to do, and Apple DO do all these other little things with each product, that people don't realise or take for granted.

but did Apple line up corporate businesses before the iPhone got a launch? NOPE! because the market was already defined. they have now adapted (IMO reluctantly) to what business want, with M$ exchange support.

Prosumers need POWER and I have yet to see any one say that this Tablet would be a powerhouse of processing power, it WON'T be, thats not to say it couldnt run useful Prosumer Apps, but what are they? still Niche ??


They may be big, but they are fractured markets, requiring different Apps for different areas.

They may use POWERFUL apple gear, how many of them are running on underpowered Minis? the tablet will be underpowered, the Apps limited to niche areas.


if its the "last domino" what is the first? isn't that more important? shouldn't that be easier to define?


so throw in ebooks, but realise that "most of the population don't really read much to begin with" in other words you defeat your own argument by saying that the market isnt there!

We need a tighter focus guys, what is the ONE thing MOST people would actually WANT, and so spend their money on...

I know its hard to answer, thats partly my point. also, if it was easy, don't you think someone else would be doing it already?

Okay, keeping in mind I JUST woke up…

I think I have figured out what the Mac touch REALLY is…

It is the PC of the 21st century!

Entry point of the Original PC = Business market

Entry point of the Mac touch = Business, Educational, Medical, Scientific

Transitional point of the Original PC = Workplace users decide to get a PC for use at home

Transitional point of the Mac touch = Students & workplace users want one for everyday use

As for the argument about overall cost of the accessories to run the Mac touch, most folks already have a computer to sync the Mac touch with. Eventually, those computers will need replaced & a home server/media center will be that replacement; the eventual evolution of 'the home computer'. As for the docks and such, some will purchase & use them, others won't. No big deal.

Addressing the 'disconnected laptop'. Yeah, a combination of the Mac touch & a BT keyboard, combined in a nylon 'Trapper Keeper' does become a disconnected laptop, but it is a specialized configuration for the primary & secondary educational market. The main idea is a protective casing for the Mac touch, the BT keyboard is added because the 'Trapper Keeper' makes for a convenient carrying solution.

I have stated before that I would accept a convertible 10" netbook/tablet, if that was the only option besides a regular laptop. But, as others here, I would rather have a pure slate tablet. If I need a real keyboard, I could go the 'Trapper Keeper' route, or one of those roll-up portable keyboards…

And while I respect folks using what works best for them in their computing workspace, I prefer having the ability to compute while I multi-task with my media playback device (yeah, the TV). For this, I would prefer a device that does not lock me into the clamshell form factor, as it is a bit cumbersome for 'handheld' use. But a slate tablet, tucked into between my hand and my elbow, with the opposing hand running the multi-touch. A stylus would be used in the same manner.

The next few years (before the end of the world in 2012, check your Mayan calendar) in computing could be VERY exciting…!

Nice mockup!

I too have been wanting a product from Apple like this.

The size is pretty decent too. Be nice if they came in multi-sizes, a 12" option at least.

The only other addition would be an option to buy a "Wacom Penabled" upgrade. For artists & graphic designers, being able to draw directly on the screen is an advantage unlike any other.

If Apple did that I would buy one in a heartbeat. Otherwise I'm going to have to go to the darkside and buy HP's tx2500z tablet PC.

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/sh...tx2500z_series

Don't' make me do it, Apple.

Hi,

When I first got my hands on an iPhone (about a year ago), I played around with the touch interface intensively for about 30 min. When I came home and sat down in front of my (PC) laptop, my fingers unconsciously went to touch the laptop screen.

A touch based interface is simply a more natural and direct way interact with a computer, in many situations.

At home, at mostly use my laptop to surf the web or watch movies/tv. That means very little text input, so a keyboard is not needed.

When I do want to input a lot of text, typically at work, I would use a tablet as a screen - with a detached keyboard. A smaller verision of Apples wireless keyboard, and mouse, would be perfect.

To sum up, I think a tablet would be used in three different configurations (like previously discussed here):

1. Hand-held or resting against your body. On the move, standing up. Watching movies/tv in bed.

2. Slightly angled on a flat surface. Reading the morning paper at breakfast. Taking brief notes In meetings.

3. As a screen, standing up. With a wireless mouse and keyboard. For text entry intensive situations. Office work. Writing a longer e-mail at home. Watching movies/tv sittning.

A Mac Touch, would need to have some fold-in stand solution for 2 and 3.

I'm convinced that tablets are coming. Don't be fooled by MS failure to make them popular. Given the smashing success of the iPhone, I believe Apple is the perfect company to make tablets an equal success.

/Daniel

I often hear the health care angle and frankly a good tablet is something that I see as wanted in this industry. Trouble is I don't see a rush to adopt overly large units like have been described in this thread. Size is everything and a massive tablet isn't going to be adopted readily simply because of its size.

In any event I see potential for a whole range of tablets running Mobile OS but frankly have little hope for a unit running Mac OS/X in its present form.

And you would be very late to the ball game. Printed media is dying faster than the silver based film industry. The fact of the matter is we are going through some significant evolutionary pains right now, that have little to do with politics. You can expect many industries to disappear in the next decade. At least in their present form, many publishing industries will try to make the jump to web based business.

I wouldn't say crappy as much as I would say ill conceived. The number one problem with both devices is the limited Flash storage. Frankly I can carry a larger selection of documents around on my iPhone and have slightly more flexibility in the documents read. The only limitation is the screen size which can grow a bit and still be a pocketable device. Yes I can see the demand for a device with a larger screen but one just needs to take a walk to your local book store to see just how large is practical. Look at the size of the majority of the books sold, I don't see a huge demand for large format with this metric.

Given that it would be an Apple device with quality zooming and so forth a large screen would be more of a negative than a positive. The other reality is that like a book store there is room for a number of format sizes. The problem Apple has is delivering a format size that can sell in quantities large enough to recoup its development expense.

The other thing here is that I'd love to see Apple deliver a product with a state of the art OLED screen. This needs to remain reasonable in cost though. Done right this could end up being a literal break through device. Imagine something the size of a marginally large paperback book but lets say half the thickness of the current iPhone. That device would be stuffed with flash memory dual or maybe quad core ARM processors and nice communications hardware. Open up Mobile OS a bit and I'd jump on the product.

Dave

Nice.


I'm not sure how to explain it properly, but as I see it Snow Leopard and associated strategies have something to do with bridging the Mobile OS and Ultraportable, Notebook, Desktop OS. Apple has its OS strategy for a wide range of computing "platforms" worked out already, from iPod to Mac Pro. As I see it...

knowing you its not in the dock, so, Menu bar??

do I win a prize?

I Don't Believe I just deleted my own post!


anyway

I was trying answer someone, but also point out something that i don't think anyone has addressed


and thats just from this thread

Everyone has a different size in mind, and then Ireland has his idea of what it should be. BUT we ALL KNOW Apple will only release in one size, so thats gotta fit to the needs of the BIGGEST audience.

So whats that audience gonna want?

and what is the killer app?

IF it was so easy, there would already be a large market, Like mobile phones but there isnt. So it IS a hard thing to crack, thats why there is so much "I want I want the kool candy" on these threads.

I like orange kool-aid…

Oh, and a PSA:

"Never accept Kool-Aid from a man named Jim…"

well, if you just CAN'T wait for these tablets (that is, if apple ever goes into that market), you could just do this

now now, don't get cranky, or you just sound childish.

"They'll just release their tablet"

but you STILL haven't made an effort to say WHAT the killer app is, HAVE YOU?

its funny how you say the bottled water is getting old, I think this is the second time I've mentioned it in a thread, but please do tell me how many threads you have STARTED about the SAME topics? and how THAT doesn't get old?

but then Gee questions are something you don't like to answer, just extol the wonder of your own apparent prophetic wisdom.

ok fine accuse me of being sarcastic and then turn to sarcasm yourself. Irony.


WHERE? Links to posts please (not a long sprawling thread link just the post would do)


whats wrong with it? its a tablet, its running FULL OSX, isnt that what you want? have you tried one out?

damn, there I am again with questions you likely won't answer.

PS, you think I'm sarcastic, I'm off to watch the Marx Brothers

good to know you wouldn't sink that low