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Apple supports homosexual "marriage" - goodbye apple  

post #1 of 114
Thread Starter 
To Apple and Mr Jobs,

I have been a supporter of apple for about 3 or 4 years now, like the operating system, the product design and it's innovative improvements to both aspects of it's output. I've recently spent the most I ever have on computer hardware after a successful period, purchasing a 30 inch display for the MBP I use, a macbook air and an iphone. I had become almost intoxicated with the company, and was not disappointed with the new products.
However, what I was disheartened and disappointed at one morning was one of the news feeds delivered to my inbox. Apparently Apple are now actively supporting homosexual "marriage" and are using funds they have made to advance this cause. I believe that marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman, for the purpose of bringing children, naturally into the world. It is a Holy covenant ordained by God and affirmed biologically for this purpose. Those who engage in same sex relationships are violating our natural and sacred design, which is clearly the union of male and female organs in a sexual nature. Anything outside of that is sodomy, which is essentially a violation of another body, regardless of their willing submission, for ones own pleasure and abuse.
The fact that you Mr Jobs and Apple, are now towing the line of this popular morally blind crusade of deceitful "equality" seeking, should I suppose, be of no real surprise. It seems the value of respect, decency and sex has been reduced and almost erased from western culture. I have no problem with people who label themselves gay, but if they practice what their lust entails, then they are violating natural and sacred laws and orders. To do this willfully, without any regret or conscience, actually in pride, brings great social and spiritual degeneration. The fact that you seem so blind to this amazes me.
I object to any funds from products I purchase going towards a cause I disagree with and think is morally corrupt and perverted. The promotion of illicit sodomy relationships as decent and right under the banner of marriage, is really appalling in my view. It is essentially thumbing your nose at the great system programmer of this universe, and saying "we know you created an awesome system of architecture here, but we think this virus should have equal status and merit"
Yes I would compare God to the Master programmer of these myriad genetic and bio-mechanical systems we have and are, the originator of that intangible and unknown consciousness/spirit within. And I would compare degenerate practices to a virus upon our society. We do not heal a virus by funding and encouraging it, we have to recognize the correct way the system should function and rewrite the code.
Which analogously would be repentance of abusive lusts and violence, and a return in humility to holiness, purity, and goodness.
What should two same sex who are consenting do if they desire each other?
They should recognize that not every desire or thought we have merits or justifies expression. Many thoughts that come can be depraved and violent, it is our choice whether to act upon them, perpetuate them, or reject them as not right and harmful.
We were not designed by God or nature to conduct ourselves sexually with the same gender. The acts which ensue from such desires are counter to what is natural, holy, and respectful in our own better judgment and conscience.
The argument is usually put forth, if you are not harming anyone its OK, but the reality is a great deal of harm is occurring under the surface and is not recognized.
Not only on a Spiritual level for those who believe, but also on a social cultural level. Family breakdown, promiscuity, thoughts, lifestyles spread throughout society like wildfire, and in a liberal society that loses all sense of balance and proportion, an "anything goes alternative lifestyle" becomes normal.
As soon as you devalue sex and marriage, remove God from the equation, then anything goes, and the "alternative community" is at the forefront of this social motion, it has intertwined with heterosexuals also and now the programming system of order "marriage" has been essentially broken as all respect has gone.
The purpose of marriage is the covenant commitment and bond between the male and the female to further life, creation and human beings. We are designed biologically for that function and it is essential that we respect our design. Respect is a central part of love, if we do not respect our design, and seek to violate it, in order to fulfill base lusts then it is not love. We are to love our fellow man, and woman are to love their fellow sisters, but as soon as lust arises in these cases, all respect and love is gone. It becomes purely a love for the flesh and not a love for the soul, personality and being. Why? Because if there was LOVE between the same sex, they would respect each-others natural design and order and not want to violate and sodomize each-other, regardless of the willingness of the person.
Trying to dress up sodomy relationships as legitimate and right by honoring them with the term "marriage" is very misguided and shameful.
I might have know that the bitten apple logo was an atheistic reference to the tree of knowledge and satan.
I won't be buying another apple product again. I wish that you wake up to holiness and Spirituality and what is right and true. The earthly physical life is but a blip, what matters is the destiny of our eternal Soul and Spirit, and that choice is in our own hands. We need to repent, humble ourselves, turn from our degenerate ways and sincerely walk in a new light of goodness, holiness and love.

I no longer am happy to be associated with Apple and I would encourage anyone else with decency to take a stand against Apples active support of "gay marriage" and boycott any further product purchases.
post #2 of 114
I'm not even going to read this.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
post #3 of 114
I'm sure Steve Jobs will be devastated to receive this irrelevant, incorrect, unsolicited and discriminatory "letter".
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post #4 of 114
If this was seriously sent to the company, I see it going straight to the shredder. I didn't really bother reading this. Except the first two lines.....

So what are you going to do with that shiny MBA? I'll take it......
post #5 of 114
I am sure the Windows community will welcome you back. A world without walls? Maybe, but for you, "A World Without Understanding" is a far better catchphrase.

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post #6 of 114
Thread Starter 
It speaks volumes the angry liberals can't even read a reasoned argument against their misinformed politically correct blind opinion. Thats true prejudice =pre-judgment and ignorance, the irony. I suppose you feel threatened by any opposing view though and can only ignore and attack.
post #7 of 114
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

I am sure the Windows community will welcome you back. A world without walls? Maybe, but for you, "A World Without Understanding" is a far better catchphrase.

And maybe "A world without morals" would suit you
post #8 of 114
And just who are you to be telling people what's "moral" and not?

Who I get involved with and what I do behind the closed door of my house is none of your business, or anyone else's. And if I want the same rights as straight people, then I have every right to demand that the government give me it.

Go and crawl under whatever rock you came from, you demented, narrow-minded, sickening rat.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanl/ - A young photographer discovering "his eye"
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post #9 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_zebra View Post

And just who are you to be telling people what's "moral" and not?

Who I get involved with and what I do behind the closed door of my house is none of your business, or anyone else's. And if I want the same rights as straight people, then I have every right to demand that the government give me it.

Go and crawl under whatever rock you came from, you demented, narrow-minded, sickening rat.

Now that is intolerance on display! You must start with name calling because you cannot justify your queer behavior. In your opinion, nobody but you has the right to an opinion. Thankfully, here we can vote to outlaw gay marriage, and if you don't like it, stay in Scotland, we won't miss you.
post #10 of 114
"In your opinion, nobody but you has the right to an opinion."

Errrrrm I didn't say that.

And thanks, I have every intention of staying in Scotland. We at least have a semblance of understanding and equality. It's hard being superior, but we somehow manage.

Oh, and I don't need to justify my "queer behaviour" to anyone. It's the way I am, and I don't owe anybody an explanation for that.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanl/ - A young photographer discovering "his eye"
post #11 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLight View Post

And maybe "A world without morals" would suit you

If you're defining morality as being a specific narrow human interpretation of the natural world, then I'm happy to be free of the burden of your particular brand of morality - the same morality that drowned 'witches' and burned 'heretics', I might add.

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post #12 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_zebra View Post

"In your opinion, nobody but you has the right to an opinion."

Errrrrm I didn't say that.

And thanks, I have every intention of staying in Scotland. We at least have a semblance of understanding and equality. It's hard being superior, but we somehow manage.

Oh, and I don't need to justify my "queer behaviour" to anyone. It's the way I am, and I don't owe anybody an explanation for that.

We'll see how you respond when you get AIDS, a truly self inflicted death sentence.
post #13 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

If you're defining morality as being a specific narrow human interpretation of the natural world, then I'm happy to be free of the burden of your particular brand of morality - the same morality that drowned 'witches' and burned 'heretics', I might add.

Spoken like a true hedonist!
post #14 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

We'll see how you respond when you get AIDS, a truly self inflicted death sentence.

Not likely, I practise safe sex.

Oh, newsflash: straight people get AIDS too.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanl/ - A young photographer discovering "his eye"
post #15 of 114
Thread Starter 
I am in scotland also actually, and none of us got a vote on it

it is a joke which undermines the respect and sacredness of the union. It's purpose is to bring new life into the world which can only happen by male and female entering into that natural union. Practicing sodomy and think its right and good is really twisted, you need to humble yourself and consider what your engaging in.
post #16 of 114
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

If you're defining morality as being a specific narrow human interpretation of the natural world, then I'm happy to be free of the burden of your particular brand of morality - the same morality that drowned 'witches' and burned 'heretics', I might add.

If you read what I have said I have in no way sought violence which you now aggressively and falsely imply. Sodomy is clearly immoral as it violates the natural function and role of our organs and their function, thats true naturalistically and Spiritually/religiously
post #17 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLight View Post

I am in scotland also actually, and none of us got a vote on it

it is a joke which undermines the respect and sacredness of the union. It's purpose is to bring new life into the world which can only happen by male and female entering into that natural union. Practicing sodomy and think its right and good is really twisted, you need to humble yourself and consider what your engaging in.


You're clearly incapable of understanding this: I DO NOT NEED TO ANSWER TO ***ANYONE*** about my private life or what I'm "engaging in". The reason there was no vote on the Civil Partnership Act is because the public don't have the right to block legislation that grants equal opportunities. It doesn't affect you if you're not wanting a civil partnership, so there's no need for you to be trying to block it by a vote.

What pleases me is that most of the people I've met all over the world are open, accepting, thoughtful people. I may be in a minority being part of the LGBT community... but you're also in a minority of narrow-minded bigotry which is a dying breed.
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post #18 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_zebra View Post

You're clearly incapable of understanding this: I DO NOT NEED TO ANSWER TO ***ANYONE*** about my private life or what I'm "engaging in".

What pleases me is that most of the people I've met all over the world are open, accepting, thoughtful people. I may be in a minority being part of the LGBT community... but you're also in a minority of narrow-minded bigotry which is a dying breed.

Actually, that's not true, most people do not countenance homosexual behavior. Some put up with it, some don't, but the over all majority does NOT support it, in spite of your limited World experience.
post #19 of 114
You actually don't know anything about me or my experience of the world.

Yet another example of you making assumptions about people and their lives when you have no information to base it on.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/xanl/ - A young photographer discovering "his eye"
post #20 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLight View Post

I might have know that the bitten apple logo was an atheistic reference to the tree of knowledge and satan.

yeah I can see where you are coming from. Go back there!
post #21 of 114
Thread Starter 
The truth is most people have been forced into blindly accepting "alternative lifestyles" in society. Most don't consider what it entails and ignore the social degeneration promiscuity and sodomy has brought and promoted.

Of course everyone has freewill and the choice to do what they like when it does not harm anyone.
The purpose of marriage is for the creation of new life in a sound secure committed relationship. The purpose of sex is for males and female to produce children. Yes it is pleasurable, but when the pleasure becomes the object and taken outside of a respectful relationship it becomes purely self gratification and abuse. The homosexual and lesbian community have contributed largely to the social degeneration of sexual values, respect, morals and marriage.

We do not excuse a pedophile from their lustful act because they seem to have that innate unnatural desire. But going on the gay philosophy, they cannot change the way they are, they have no control over the thoughts they have and should be allowed to practice their desire so long as the partner is willing.

But adults are over the age of consent and have the sense to express their freewill?
I seriously doubt the mental maturity of anyone who think sodomy is a loving act

I think the lifestyle is perverted, sodomy in general violates what our organs were designed to do and the things that are decent to do with them. Also that the increasing promotion of that culture has spread throughout society and led to the breakdown of marriage, values, respect, decency and society.
The attempt for the gay community to qualify their sexuality which boils down to sodomy with no procreative and natural functions, with the term marriage. Is really a sickening disgrace.

Yes people can do what they like behind closed doors, but increasingly as we see, it leaks into society and begins ruining it. I think we all will be judged for our conduct and how repentant, humble, decent and holy we have lived our lifestyles.
post #22 of 114
... you know what homophobia REALLY says about you, right? LOL.
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post #23 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

Spoken like a true hedonist!

Or just someone who recognizes that morality is not an objective fixed concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLight View Post

If you read what I have said I have in no way sought violence which you now aggressively and falsely imply. Sodomy is clearly immoral as it violates the natural function and role of our organs and their function, thats true naturalistically and Spiritually/religiously

There was nothing aggressive in my tone. Perhaps a hint of derision, but that's understandable, given the objectionable tone you used in your opening post. Referring to a person's psychologocal state or sexuality as a 'virus', certainly illustrates quite clearly that you see homosexuality as something to be eradicated, which is more than implicitly violent.

I am very new to this forum, but the pattern is the same as so many others. A strong, intolerant opening rant is quickly followed by attacks on the WAY in which people respond, rather than the points they are making.

Incidentally, all parts of the body are more than capable of being explored pleasurably... and by your definition of 'natural function', perhaps hand holding, or neck kissing or a simple embrace could be 'unnatural'. It's a ridiculous argument, barely deserving of the tolerant and thoughtful replies you have had so far.

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post #24 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_zebra View Post

You actually don't know anything about me or my experience of the world.

Yet another example of you making assumptions about people and their lives when you have no information to base it on.


I know that you're a wet behind the ears 23 year old, so just how much experience do you think that gives you? I don't have to assume, it's in your public profile, genius!
post #25 of 114
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

Or just someone who recognizes that morality is not an objective fixed concept.

Referring to a person's psychologocal state or sexuality as a 'virus', certainly illustrates quite clearly that you see homosexuality as something to be eradicated, which is more than implicitly violent.

Incidentally, all parts of the body are more than capable of being explored pleasurably... and by your definition of 'natural function', perhaps hand holding, or neck kissing or a simple embrace could be 'unnatural'. It's a ridiculous argument, barely deserving of the tolerant and thoughtful replies you have had so far.

1) I would compare homosexuality to a disfunction, virus and disease, in the same way I would pedophilia and bestiality. You are confusing the person with the action, which is why you are so offended as most get on this issue. These lusts and perversions are not part of the person, they are choices and associations the person has chosen to make, pursue and act upon. They are tastes and inclinations which are molded by the type of character we construct and choose.
When I talk about healing the virus I mean removing the disease and imbalance, and not removing the sufferer as you falsely imply.

2) There is only one part of the body design by nature and God (oh thats right God is out of the picture for most on here) and that is our sexual organs. Yes, sex is for our sexual organs. I know this will not be comprehended or accepted because so many in our society have been totally degenerate and warped in their mind as to the proper and right role of things.
Your response and others who are opposed to my view have not been in the least bit tolerant and thoughtful, they have been reactionary and abusive, if you were honest.
post #26 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLight View Post

1) I would compare homosexuality to a disfunction, virus and disease, in the same way I would pedophilia and bestiality. You are confusing the person with the action, which is why you are so offended as most get on this issue. These lusts and perversions are not part of the person, they are choices and associations the person has chosen to make, pursue and act upon. They are tastes and inclinations which are molded by the type of character we construct and choose.
When I talk about healing the virus I mean removing the disease and imbalance, and not removing the sufferer as you falsely imply.

It is common for people to consider homosexuality as dysfunctional (note the spelling here), because in some ways it does not follow the 'norm' of sexual activity. But then, what is the norm exactly? Missionary position, with no need for sexual pleasure from the woman? Indeed, this may be 'normal', or it may not. But to compare what two consenting adults may wish to do, in the privacy of their own bedroom, to pedophilia or bestiality, shows gross ignorance of even your own argument. You could compare homosexuality with a heterosexual act where a condom is used, or oral sex is performed for example. Either would be a perfect analogy for your dysfunctional view of sex. But you won't make that comparison, because either would bring attention to how weak your argument actually is, even from a so called moral stand point.

Incidentally, if you remove a defining trait of a person, you are destroying that person, so your last sentence doesn't change the nature of this discussion.

Quote:
2) There is only one part of the body design by nature and God (oh thats right God is out of the picture for most on here) and that is our sexual organs. Yes, sex is for our sexual organs. I know this will not be comprehended or accepted because so many in our society have been totally degenerate and warped in their mind as to the proper and right role of things.
Your response and others who are opposed to my view have not been in the least bit tolerant and thoughtful, they have been reactionary and abusive, if you were honest.

This doesn't make much sense, looks like you intended to say one thing and then thought of something else. BTW, the word 'reactionary' is used specifically to describe intolerance to radical changes in society, usually progressive. It is your view that is reactionary, not mine.

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post #27 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

I know that you're a wet behind the ears 23 year old, so just how much experience do you think that gives you? I don't have to assume, it's in your public profile, genius!

My age is irrelevant to my experience and the places in the world I've been, so in actuality you were assuming. You seem so prone to assuming things that could almost make a career out of it, if you weren't so crap at it.
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post #28 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_zebra View Post

My age is irrelevant to my experience and the places in the world I've been, so in actuality you were assuming. You seem so prone to assuming things that could almost make a career out of it, if you weren't so crap at it.

Really, sonny? I'm three times your age, don't tell me about experience, you're just embarrassing yourself, punk.
post #29 of 114
I'm embarrassing MYSELF?

*snigger*
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post #30 of 114
Zinfella and Goldenboy, sitting in a tree...

And Gold> you might want to try paragraphs if you want anyone to read anything. I don't know about you homeschooled types, or the 70-year old products of the great depression, but where I'm from we were taught about those and able to use them by second grade.
post #31 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLight View Post

It speaks volumes the angry liberals can't even read a reasoned argument against their misinformed politically correct blind opinion. Thats true prejudice =pre-judgment and ignorance, the irony. I suppose you feel threatened by any opposing view though and can only ignore and attack.

Apple is a company that is allowed to spend its money how it sees fit. We don't live in a socialist country (yet), so you do have plenty of choice. However, I will warn you that I'm certain that many of the products you own are produced by companies that are completely god-less: you may want to do an audit.

Moreover, supporting "NO on 8" isn't necessarily an endorsement to the homosexual way of life. You have to think about that, too. I voted "NO" on prop 8 because I don't believe that government has any right to qualify what is or isn't marriage in a religious sense. Secularly, marriage is just a tick in a box that provides the married with better insurance coverage, and until the insurance companies change -- which is like asking the mafia to change -- I believe NO on 8, is necessary to limit them. You have to consider that Apple isn't necessarily endorsing a way of life by supporting "NO on 8."
Cat: the other white meat
Cat: the other white meat
post #32 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLight View Post

It speaks volumes the angry liberals can't even read a reasoned argument against their misinformed politically correct blind opinion. Thats true prejudice =pre-judgment and ignorance, the irony. I suppose you feel threatened by any opposing view though and can only ignore and attack.

I don't fit your description of the angry liberal (...angry conservative libertarian... yes), but I do subscribe to the notion that intolerance and willful ignorance needs to be fought, including so-called "reasoned arguments" if those arguments lead to the diminution of our Constitution.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

post #33 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLight View Post

And maybe "A world without morals" would suit you

Whatever happened to:

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

post #34 of 114
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Whatever happened to:

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

I am glad you brought this passage up. I believe though it has been misunderstood by many, especially in the liberal new age movement to mean, "so long as you keep shtoom, anything goes and God will be OK with that". Jesus is clearly talking here about not being excessively judgmental and condemning people without considering your own flaws, indeed. It is true that we have all made mistakes and sinned, but this doesn't mean we should stay silent when there is injustice taking place, abuse of innocent's or the wholesale unrepentant perversion of society.
The important thing is we recognize our sin and make a sincere attempt to stop doing it again. Christ also stepped into save a prostitute from being stoned, often this passage is quoted by liberals, but the "Go and sin no more" is left out. Christ did say, I do not condemn you either, but that forgiveness and mercy was dependent upon the prostitute's sincere repentance and willingness to change from those sinful ways.
On the whole, the gay community is utterly unrepentant of their sodomy and abuse of sex, they do not recognize it as wrong or a misuse of our organs and natural design. They even march in pride about it. Christ also says in John 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."
Jesus also says in John 7:24 Don't judge by appearances. Judge by what is right.
and in Matthew 10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Clearly Jesus expects us to make a stand for righteousness, holiness, and loving relationships. Anyone who makes a stand for holiness and purity in this society in general now a days is ridiculed and mocked, attacked and insulted. This is a result of hedonism and perversion taking over the culture and lowering the threshold of morality. The Holy Standards Jesus embodied are being shunned by society and at the forefront of this are unrepentant sinners who have no intention of changing their ways and actually want to promote them.
What did Jesus say to towns who rejected his message of repentance?
Luke 10:13You people of Chorazin are in for trouble! You people of Bethsaida are also in for trouble! If the miracles that took place in your towns had happened in Tyre and Sidon, the people there would have turned to God long ago. They would have dressed in sackcloth and put ashes on their heads. [f] 14On the day of judgment the people of Tyre and Sidon will get off easier than you will. 15People of Capernaum, do you think you will be honored in heaven? Well, you will go down to hell!
Christ brought a message of mercy and patience, yet coupled with one of severe warning of the consequences of continued willful unrepentant sin and a turning away from God.
It's easy to cherry pick the passages to comfort you and excuse your selfish ways, but Christ brought a stern message that judgment is coming to all people and we need to recognize our error, humble ourselves and change from those debauched ways.

God loves each of his children, but for those who choose to turn away from Him and His nature and standards of holiness, righteousness, love, respect and purity, then they "make their own bed" so to speak, and the result is an eternity without the source of all light and love God.

To be clearer about this, a murderer or child abuser could misuse this passage of scripture to justify their crime and abuse saying " who are you to judge?". Jesus said to "Judge righteously" as well as "judge not lest ye be judged", a contradiction? no, not if understood.
We are to make a stand for what is right, Gods holy ways, but also recognize our own error and not be excessively critical constantly in pride. God is the ultimate judge of all hearts and souls, but God also expects those who believe in His ways to represent them and uphold them.

John 17: 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.


This comes after Christ has revealed the true nature of Gods Spirit and ways upon the earth, so there can be no more excuses as to Gods standards and nature. There comes a point where God and Christ will bring judgment and reject those who have rejected them.

Matthew 7:21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Matthew 12: 36But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."
post #35 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLight View Post

I am glad you brought this passage up. I believe though it has been misunderstood by many, especially in the liberal new age movement to mean, "so long as you keep shtoom, anything goes and God will be OK with that". Jesus is clearly talking here about not being excessively judgmental and condemning people without considering your own flaws,

Actually, no, Jesus was saying do not judge another for what you may be judged for yourself. i.e. don't be a hypocrite. It's far simpler than your post would suggest.

So, using this as the one and only truth in the universe (just to make the conversation a little more interesting), you would have the right to judge homosexuality in the way you did, if you've never acted, or thought, about anything sexual that did not involve your wife/husband, strictly for the purpose of procreation.

Incidentally, quotes from the Bible never, ever, settle arguments, because they can be used to demonstrate different points of view almost indefinitely.

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post #36 of 114
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

Actually, no, Jesus was saying do not judge another for what you may be judged for yourself. i.e. don't be a hypocrite. It's far simpler than your post would suggest.

So, using this as the one and only truth in the universe (just to make the conversation a little more interesting), you would have the right to judge homosexuality in the way you did, if you've never acted, or thought, about anything sexual that did not involve your wife/husband, strictly for the purpose of procreation.

Incidentally, quotes from the Bible never, ever, settle arguments, because they can be used to demonstrate different points of view almost indefinitely.

The quotes from the Bible speak sound sense and if given the time they deserve would open your mind to higher wisdom and understanding.

Christ was warning of hypocrisy in this instance but your lack of study of his recorded ministry has led you to false conclusion based on your own bias and desire.
Your conclusion from this is that he did not intend any of his followers to correct, warn or judge another person because they too have sinned, this is wrong.
In fact it is the responsibility of those who are connected with God and believe in him to warn those who will listen, to repent and turn back to God, this is the whole point of the ministry he founded, so your argument here is false.

I can understand how it might seem contradictory if you haven't given the Bible any sincere study, but it isn't. Christ was the only being incarnate who has lived without error or sin, but his message of correction and a call to repentance was to be carried on by those who had recognized their error and repented and now walk in his Spirit.

Like Christ we should be patient and merciful as God has been with us, but also stern and clear about the consequences of unrepentant.
If your consciousness and soul is going to be separated from the source of all light, peace and goodness in the spiritual timeless dimension, the it is Love that motivates the warning and call to repentance and also the unwillingness to conform to the ways of the world when they are wrong and anti-christ's way of holiness.

Lustful thoughts, temptations do arise, as do violent thoughts within to test us, but there is a huge difference between recognizing these thoughts lead to harm, a loss of peace and connection with the innocence of Godliness, and pursuing them with verve, calculation and unrepentnance in an attempt not only to satiate them but to promote them as right and good in society. The fruit of one path is peace and freedom, the fruit of the other is destruction and degeneration

Very important distinction.
post #37 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLight View Post

The quotes from the Bible speak sound sense and if given the time they deserve would open your mind to higher wisdom and understanding.

Christ was warning of hypocrisy in this instance but your lack of study of his recorded ministry has led you to false conclusion based on your own bias and desire.
Your conclusion from this is that he did not intend any of his followers to correct, warn or judge another person because they too have sinned, this is wrong.
In fact it is the responsibility of those who are connected with God and believe in him to warn those who will listen, to repent and turn back to God, this is the whole point of the ministry he founded, so your argument here is false.

What I said is 'wrong', in your opinion. I think you need to understand the difference between an opinion, and a statement of truth. I probably should have done the same to be clear, although I do think that in this case, what is being said is very simple and obvious.

And really you have no idea how intimately I know or understand the bible, and shouldn't assume anything on this matter. I would not do the same to you.

As for biases... were you being deliberately ironic?

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post #38 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLight View Post

Like Christ we should be patient and merciful as God has been with us, but also stern and clear about the consequences of unrepentant.
I

Wow. So you get to decide how Christ will judge these people on their death? If we have you to be our steadfast moral compass and passer of judgment then why do we need Jesus or god at all? You seem to have it all figured out and heck, you're (presumably) a real person that I can actually see and hear, unlike that shadowy god fellow who seems awful good at hiding.

Where your moral argument fundamentally breaks down is that if you practice what you preach then it is god who passes judgment, not YOU. YOU are inisgnificant compared to the wisdom of the lord. So treat your neighbor with kindness despite his sins, and DO UNTO OTHERS THAT WHICH WOULD DO DONE UNTO YOU. The golden rule my friend. How would you like someone saying you couldn't marry because of your height, or your accent, or the color of your hair, or your skin? Are these things a sin? Being homosexual is no different - if you can't understand that then you have a lot to learn about morality and especially equality. What of those born with genetic defects that render them sterile. They are therefore unable to reproduce and useless under your definition of what a human is on earth for - why would god allow these sterile beings to be born?

In fact, any homosexual is doing far for for the other people on this planet by not having children than you are by pumping out the babies. The world is already overcrowded and it can't support an endlessly increasing population of good Christian tykes, no matter how well they are raised. In god's eyes, a homosexual may even be looked upon favorable, as he has sacrificed his divine right to reproduce so that other children may lead a life of greater plenty as there is more to go around fewer people.

Lastly, it is narrow minded of you to assume that morality can only come from religion or a belief in god. Morality comes from deep thought and our own natural sense of justice - we are born with the concept of fairness hard wired into our brains. Morality at its very simplest is the golden rule - do unto others. And yet religions frequently ignore this golden rule and cause much bloodshed, pain, and suffering in the name of lesser holy rules. If everyone treated others how they themselves wished to be treated, we'd have no need for any further morality - as all moral questions can be divined back to the essential golden rule.

Now I am an atheist. I don't find comfort in the idea of a god nor am I fearful of death or of the unknown. But I consider myself a highly moral person. I refine my morals through taking in new knowledge, new experiences, and weighing them against basic logic of fairness and right and wrong. And would you closely watch me while I knew no one was watching, you'd find me to be a quite moral person indeed.

Until you free your own mind and realize that all humans on this earth are brothers regardless of the frivolous traits that seem to divide us, please keep your hate out of this forum and save it for those that have a stomach for such morally reprehensible bile.
post #39 of 114
I've read the original post and a broad smattering (but not all) of the subsequent banter.

The issue is an interesting one - so much so that it invariably gets snared in the complexity of language when woven against the background of alternative perspectives.

There is a view founded upon Biblical teachings that would tend to condemn the act of homosexuality - in the sense that the act is morally condemned by God. When brought forth by those who wish to share this knowledge, they become quickly wrapped up in specious arguments and invariably display a trait of seeming superiority or some other equally morally reprehensible trait. It is beyond question that many of the gays I know are upright, honest and sensitive individuals who, in many ways that I can make my puny efforts of judgment, are ethically equal or better than their heterosexual counterparts.

There are others that view homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle - and nothing more.

It's a difficult fact of life that when someone like the original poster wanted to take what for them might be a difficult stand (after all - to give up Apple for Steve Balmer & Microsoft) and create an open letter to Mr. Jobs expressing their dissatisfaction by making such a pledge - they must be prepared to run the belt gauntlet of those who would choose to negate their effect. As I'm sure Old Testament prophets found, it is even more difficult to use an open letter as a springboard to advance the notion that those who hold alternative views must be repentant and/or redeemed.

What is usually at the core of each such demonstration is a distressing lack of compassion and philos on both ends. I know that I have been guilty of such a lack in my own life too many times.

Thankfully, AppleInsider is predominately a bastion of enthusiasts who feel blessed to know the difference between what Apple truly has to offer versus what the rest of the industry (and yes - predominately Windows & Microsoft) has to offer. I myself am grateful for the forum and the usually high enthusiasm directed at understanding the Apple imperative. When this happens, even though discussion can be spirited, it is a beautiful thing.
post #40 of 114
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by max_andrews View Post


Where your moral argument fundamentally breaks down is that if you practice what you preach then it is god who passes judgment, not YOU. YOU are inisgnificant compared to the wisdom of the lord. So treat your neighbor with kindness despite his sins, and DO UNTO OTHERS THAT WHICH WOULD DO DONE UNTO YOU. The golden rule my friend. How would you like someone saying you couldn't marry because of your height, or your accent, or the color of your hair, or your skin? Are these things a sin? Being homosexual is no different - if you can't understand that then you have a lot to learn about morality and especially equality. What of those born with genetic defects that render them sterile. They are therefore unable to reproduce and useless under your definition of what a human is on earth for - why would god allow these sterile beings to be born?


Re-read what I said carefully before jumping to conclusions about judging people rather than their conduct.
Homosexuality is no more genetic than the lust for children or animals, it is a perverted desire born from the degradation of the persons character and choices. The bile comes in these perverted acts and the defense of them.
Every word and deed is a choice we make, which thoughts to act upon and which not to is the measure of our freewill and moral compass. The apparent ignorance regarding this distinction is a good indication why people are lawless now and blaming their abuse on their genes.

Would you pardon a murderer because of the "genetic inclination to murder" - the argument is ridiculous and sad.

The problem here is, due to moral degradation, a slump into Godlessness, people cannot understand that these practices are wrong anymore. The threshold of decency which maintains social order and balance through marriage and procreation has been eroded.
We now have a large potion of western society who are reckless, lawless and abusive in deed and word. There is no point arguing about it, because I really believe many people have lost all perspective on what is right, natural, decent and good.

This is a clear backing from apple of the gay agenda in society, and they are using you money to try and promote what is really a subversion of what holds it together in misguided political correctness.

I would only speak to those who have some degree of sense left and a sense of what is right, holy, decent and respectable in the sight of their conscience and God, and no longer buy products from Apple.

We have a moral responsibility for every word and act we commit.
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