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Apple tells Mac mini fan to hang in there - Page 4

post #121 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat View Post

In regards to a drive, it could just be an option like with the Air. If anything, the Mini and the external drive for the air could end up sharing the same footprint so they could be stackable and look like they thought out the whole product.

I'd like that stackable set. If the external (DVD) case was the same size as the current Mini, another HDD or SSD could be added. No need to open the Mini - just keep adding modules and the multiple modules would resemble the cube. No need for an xMac either.
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post #122 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

I'd like that stackable set. If the external (DVD) case was the same size as the current Mini, another HDD or SSD could be added. No need to open the Mini - just keep adding modules and the multiple modules would resemble the cube. No need for an xMac either.

I'd buy one of those, definitely. Keep the base unit really cheap, just the CPU, GPU (please!), motherboard, memory and 2.5-inch HDD. Then build it up from there like bits of interconnecting hifi. Has anyone done this before?
post #123 of 144
The only kicker is that Apple will need to give the USB ports (or whatever port they use) the ability to provide bus power. The Air drive is bus powered, and as a result, no other machines can use it. I'm sure Apple would beef up the mini as needed.

Also, I'd like to see them come up with a way to hide the cables. Even with desktop computers, the direction has been towards less cables, so having a bunch of modules with a "rats nest" on your desk isn't too desirable. Apple usually comes out with a clean, well thought out design, so I'd be curious how they'd do this, if this is actually the way they go.
post #124 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat View Post

The only kicker is that Apple will need to give the USB ports (or whatever port they use) the ability to provide bus power. The Air drive is bus powered, and as a result, no other machines can use it. I'm sure Apple would beef up the mini as needed.

Also, I'd like to see them come up with a way to hide the cables. Even with desktop computers, the direction has been towards less cables, so having a bunch of modules with a "rats nest" on your desk isn't too desirable. Apple usually comes out with a clean, well thought out design, so I'd be curious how they'd do this, if this is actually the way they go.

Okay, how about an alumin(i)um tower the size of the cube, but the back opens like the Mac Pro (side), and you could just slide the HDD, DVD, SSD, memory, etc, into slots.

The base area would be similar to the current Mini.
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post #125 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat View Post

The only kicker is that Apple will need to give the USB ports (or whatever port they use) the ability to provide bus power. The Air drive is bus powered, and as a result, no other machines can use it. I'm sure Apple would beef up the mini as needed.

Also, I'd like to see them come up with a way to hide the cables. Even with desktop computers, the direction has been towards less cables, so having a bunch of modules with a "rats nest" on your desk isn't too desirable. Apple usually comes out with a clean, well thought out design, so I'd be curious how they'd do this, if this is actually the way they go.

The new 24" ACD coming out this month may be a clue to that. If the new Mac Mini has a mag-sage adapter (even though it doesn't really need it like laptop's due, it could get power from the ACD "without" the need of the bulky power supply that currently accompanies it. It would have to be shipped with it, but it could be kept in the original box.

This means that the only two other cables would be the miniDP for video out and the USB going to the ACD. That single cable bundle from the Mini to the ACD and then power cable going from the ACD to the wall. Very clean, very Apple.

PS: There is no way the optical drive will be removed from a lower-end desktop machine before it's removed from their notebook line. In case you didn't want to fork out $100 for the external optical drive, having the desktop option for DVD installation would still be handy. However, I am surprised that that MBA didn't come with a USB stick with the Leopard install files on them. I am hoping that as flash prices drop, that they will make this standard on the MBA when Snow Leopard is released. Hell, by then the prices of an 8 or 16GB USB flash drive may be cheap enough to warrant all new Macs install SL that way. It would certainly be considerably faster and would show that optical media is on the way out in the consumer PC market. But I am dreaming ehre, there are still two to three years to go before that will occur.
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post #126 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The new 24" ACD coming out this month may be a clue to that. If the new Mac Mini has a mag-sage adapter (even though it doesn't really need it like laptop's due, it could get power from the ACD "without" the need of the bulky power supply that currently accompanies it. It would have to be shipped with it, but it could be kept in the original box.

This means that the only two other cables would be the miniDP for video out and the USB going to the ACD. That single cable bundle from the Mini to the ACD and then power cable going from the ACD to the wall. Very clean, very Apple.

PS: There is no way the optical drive will be removed from a lower-end desktop machine before it's removed from their notebook line. In case you didn't want to fork out $100 for the external optical drive, having the desktop option for DVD installation would still be handy. However, I am surprised that that MBA didn't come with a USB stick with the Leopard install files on them. I am hoping that as flash prices drop, that they will make this standard on the MBA when Snow Leopard is released. Hell, by then the prices of an 8 or 16GB USB flash drive may be cheap enough to warrant all new Macs install SL that way. It would certainly be considerably faster and would show that optical media is on the way out in the consumer PC market. But I am dreaming ehre, there are still two to three years to go before that will occur.

dvd cost about $1 - $2 pressed in bulk so your 8gb flash disk will have to be at the same price for that to work.
post #127 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat View Post

The only kicker is that Apple will need to give the USB ports (or whatever port they use) the ability to provide bus power. The Air drive is bus powered, and as a result, no other machines can use it. I'm sure Apple would beef up the mini as needed.

The Mini ports provide power. It might not be enough power but it's enough to drive an external 2.5" USB hard drive from one port.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat View Post

Also, I'd like to see them come up with a way to hide the cables. Even with desktop computers, the direction has been towards less cables, so having a bunch of modules with a "rats nest" on your desk isn't too desirable.

That's the selling point for the iMac though. I think their marketing should take on 3 areas:

Mini: flexible
iMac: simple
Mac Pro: powerful

The Mac Pro will never be better than the image Apple used in a keynote showing the cluttered tower vs the iMac. Put a Mac Pro in place of the PC tower and you get the same mess.

The idea is that the Mini adapts to your needs and you build around the module. The iMac is for people who just don't want to mess around with the machine at all and want essentially an appliance. The Mac Pro is for people who want the most raw performance and upgradability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon

dvd cost about $1 - $2 pressed in bulk so your 8gb flash disk will have to be at the same price for that to work.

I think they should just charge a premium for it like they do SSD. If they advertise the faster install time, it's well worth paying an extra $5-10 for. They won't do it for security reasons though. It's much easier to copy a flash drive than an optical drive - besides cost, I'm pretty sure this is why Sony opted for UMD over SD. People who unlock their PSP use the SD card to play their games.

These days DVDs are pretty easy to copy anyway so I don't think it matters much. Plus they could come up with their own proprietary copy protection. If I do a multi-install at work, I copy the disc to a USB drive for the install anyway as it's about 3 times faster. I would personally much rather have a flash drive as long as it was reliable enough.
post #128 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon View Post

dvd cost about $1 - $2 pressed in bulk so your 8gb flash disk will have to be at the same price for that to work.

really?

this shows how little YOU really understand Apple. The new unibodys cost more, according to all the theories, not actually less, yet Apple did that.

Gee your "logic" falls down yet again.
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post #129 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The Mini ports provide power. It might not be enough power but it's enough to drive an external 2.5" USB hard drive from one port.



That's the selling point for the iMac though. I think their marketing should take on 3 areas:

Mini: flexible
iMac: simple
Mac Pro: powerful

The Mac Pro will never be better than the image Apple used in a keynote showing the cluttered tower vs the iMac. Put a Mac Pro in place of the PC tower and you get the same mess.

The idea is that the Mini adapts to your needs and you build around the module. The iMac is for people who just don't want to mess around with the machine at all and want essentially an appliance. The Mac Pro is for people who want the most raw performance and upgradability.
.

Actually its more like:

Mac Mini: supposed to be cheap, but Apple doesn't quite understand the client base, so they don't know exactly what to do with it.
iMac: Simple yet full featured family machine.
Blank: Powerful
Mac Pro: Extreme Professional users.
post #130 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The new 24" ACD coming out this month may be a clue to that. If the new Mac Mini has a mag-sage adapter (even though it doesn't really need it like laptop's due, it could get power from the ACD "without" the need of the bulky power supply that currently accompanies it. It would have to be shipped with it, but it could be kept in the original box.

Actually they wouldn't even have to ship a power supply. Ship it unbundled and let the user choose what is best. I'm not to sure what Apples long term goal is for this monitor or if it might be the first member of a family of devices. What I do know is that I wish somebody would come out with an adapter for my MBP. That is a spring of 2008 MBP. I really like that concept!!!!!
Quote:
This means that the only two other cables would be the miniDP for video out and the USB going to the ACD. That single cable bundle from the Mini to the ACD and then power cable going from the ACD to the wall. Very clean, very Apple.

Yeah very clean. Some people are already complaining about MagSafe on a desktop but there are multiple ways to deal with that. In the case of the Mini though it could be considered an improvement over what is there now.
Quote:

PS: There is no way the optical drive will be removed from a lower-end desktop machine before it's removed from their notebook line. In case you didn't want to fork out $100 for the external optical drive, having the desktop option for DVD installation would still be handy. However, I am surprised that that MBA didn't come with a USB stick with the Leopard install files on them. I am hoping that as flash prices drop, that they will make this standard on the MBA when Snow Leopard is released. Hell, by then the prices of an 8 or 16GB USB flash drive may be cheap enough to warrant all new Macs install SL that way. It would certainly be considerably faster and would show that optical media is on the way out in the consumer PC market. But I am dreaming ehre, there are still two to three years to go before that will occur.

I tend to disagree with the removal of the CD drive not happening. I think it will in short order as for many it is superfluous. Since Apple is generally ahead of the curve here the could get ride of the drive easily when the next machine comes out.

Moreso right now having Snow Leopard on a USB stick would be a big cost improvement. Think about it, USB sticks are dirt cheap right now and they are over priced. The price of a stick will be much less than the cost of a optical drive and a CD with Leopard on it. Not to mention the issue of freeing up all that space inside of Mini for stuff people would use.


Dave
post #131 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

really?

this shows how little YOU really understand Apple. The new unibodys cost more, according to all the theories, not actually less, yet Apple did that.

Gee your "logic" falls down yet again.

so you want your software to have a $20 - $30 media cost + the $30 - $40 cost of the software it self?
post #132 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon View Post

so you want your software to have a $20 - $30 media cost + the $30 - $40 cost of the software it self?

No, but if the cost of a 9.5mm optical drive is not being included the price savings, even now, are probably in favour of the customer. Especially considering that Apple can now make their machines lighters and smaller without having to include the 2nd largest computer component in the machine (1st being the battery). This also allows for the entire right side of the machine to have ports. Actual ports, not used a 5" long slit that will never get used.

However, since Apple did include optical drives in these new Macs notebooks, we probably won't see another design change for the better part of 2 years. Though, as Melgross has previously pointed out, the new new milling operation has a great potential for Apple to changing the case designs very quickly, so perhaps it will be sooner than later.

PS: My original comment was about including the flash drive installer it in the high-end, slimline, ultra-lightweight, executive MacBook Air. While not being overpriced compared to other's in its class, it is quite expensive compared to a MacBook that is considerably faster and only 50% heavier.
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post #133 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

No, but if the cost of a 9.5mm optical drive is not being included the price savings, even now, are probably in favour of the customer. Especially considering that Apple can now make their machines lighters and smaller without having to include the 2nd largest computer component in the machine (1st being the battery). This also allows for the entire right side of the machine to have ports. Actual ports, not used a 5" long slit that will never get used.

Battery? I thought this thread was about the mini, I don't remember this part of the discussion derailing to talk about the notebooks.
post #134 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Battery? I thought this thread was about the mini, I don't remember this part of the discussion derailing to talk about the notebooks.

I did a post script stating that the notebooks would lose the optical drive before the desktops would, especially the budget Mac Mini. And then added my surprise that the minimalist MBA shipped with DVDs. instead of a smaller, faster USB flash drive.
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post #135 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon View Post

dvd cost about $1 - $2 pressed in bulk so your 8gb flash disk will have to be at the same price for that to work.

Pressed DVDs are cheaper than $1 packaged, though that is DVD-Video, plastic keepcase, cover insert, pressed & silkscreened disc.

I do think we are getting very close to the point where we see flash media can replace optical as a distribution medium for more expensive software. An 8GB USB flash drive is $17 now, SDHC a bit cheaper, even class 6. I just bought a small stack of 16GB class 6 SDHC cards for $30 each. It was six months ago where I paid $40 each for 8GB cards. Though the little bastards are easier to lose than a DVD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

really?

this shows how little YOU really understand Apple. The new unibodys cost more, according to all the theories, not actually less, yet Apple did that.

Gee your "logic" falls down yet again.

Where is this coming from? What part of the conversation are you referencing, it would have to be many pages back because you aren't making sense without that context.
post #136 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat View Post

Also, I'd like to see them come up with a way to hide the cables. Even with desktop computers, the direction has been towards less cables, so having a bunch of modules with a "rats nest" on your desk isn't too desirable. Apple usually comes out with a clean, well thought out design, so I'd be curious how they'd do this, if this is actually the way they go.

Imagine the mini itself as the bottom of a micro/mini hifi system. It would have a custom magsafe connector on its topside along the back. Then Apple could release a set of custom mini modules for you to add, which lock to the top connecting to the magsafe connector for a secure fit. The units would be hot-swappable. Users could then connect up to say four extra modules to the mini, which could be anything from extra HDD, SSD, optical or possibly PCI-style for gfx/sound/etc.

This may never have been done before, but it should be possible. My parents used to have a hifi system which did this (sans magsafe bit) which was great because there were no interconnecting wires behind the unit.

That's my vision anyway probably never happen but I can dream!
post #137 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post

The TV is quite a limited device, as far as I'm concerned.

To repeat my earlier comment, in another thread:

I think the Mini will be phased out in favour of an updated Apple TV. The Apple TV could be significantly improved with a software update (Take 3), to become a more stand-alone media/home server machine.

Take 3 features:

- iTunes (stand-alone)
- Safari
- External disks via USB
- Keyboard and mouse

Adding those features would make it very attractive package. Perhaps too good.

A dream would be adding AppStore, with games and applications - but I don't see that as very likely.

/Daniel

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post #138 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
The Mini ports provide power. It might not be enough power but it's enough to drive an external 2.5" USB hard drive from one port.

That's the selling point for the iMac though. I think their marketing should take on 3 areas:

Mini: flexible
iMac: simple
Mac Pro: powerful

The Mac Pro will never be better than the image Apple used in a keynote showing the cluttered tower vs the iMac. Put a Mac Pro in place of the PC tower and you get the same mess.

The idea is that the Mini adapts to your needs and you build around the module. The iMac is for people who just don't want to mess around with the machine at all and want essentially an appliance. The Mac Pro is for people who want the most raw performance and upgradability.
.

Actually its more like:

Mac Mini: supposed to be cheap, but Apple doesn't quite understand the client base, so they don't know exactly what to do with it.
iMac: Simple yet full featured family machine.
Blank: Powerful
Mac Pro: Extreme Professional users.

I thought these two contributions sum up the debate perfectly. The Mini should be an X-Mac that allows you to build a powerful 'blank' computer around the hub. ie a mini-tower or Cube concept. The Mac Pro is the extreme uber of this. The iMac is the 'one wire' out the back lack of spaghetti. ie the simple way. There are consumers(!) that would like a computer we 'add' to. ie the 'mini' or x-mac hub. ie the tower concept. The problem with the Mac Pro is that it is simply too much. Too big. Too many HD bays. Too many cpus. If you're into 3d? Great. But considering the dearth of software able to fully take advantage of said Pro...then why cut off consumers who want the flexibility of said concept but don't want to pay hundreds extra for power they just won't use.

The presence of the mini as is...is really confused. Bring out the MacTouch to replace it...and give desktop users what they want, an X-Mac/Cube thing. I like the iMac. And I appreciate what it does. And it is rightly popular. But it doesn't replace a mid-tower concept in the same way a mid-tower doesn't exclude the iMac AIO concept.

It's so infuriating that Apple don't give us the choice. They could easily make a plastic Cube or Alu cube mini-tower that would be discrete enough but powerful enough to appeal to teh legions of tower fans.

And what's frustrating, we know Apple is the company who could execute a mid-tower so well.

There's already 3 laptop choices. You'd think Apple would offer something below the Mac Pro in desktops. It's crippled. Cripple and Wah-HEYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! That's not a desktop strategy for me.

It should be:

iMac: simple £595-£995
X-Mac: flexible £795-£1395
Mac Pro: powerful £1495-£2495

The true A, B and C of what SHOULD be Apple's strategy. The iMac started out as Apple's bottom of the line desktop computer. The mistake was pushing the high end to cover the low end tower prices and then push the Mac Pro tower entry price even higher. They tried to sqeeze the cube inbetween but they stuffed up the pricing big time. It was a failed opportunity. *Shakes head.

LEmon Bon BOn.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #139 of 144
Agreed. I remember when I got my G4 tower, Apple actually had a tower for $1500. If they still had that, I don't think we'd all be complaining. However, the only thing we have in that range now is the iMac. I like the machine, and we all know Apple have been about the all-in-one since 1984, but its just not what I want. While I like the new portables, I did find it odd that they touted the "greenness" of the new laptops, all while they sell a computer that forces you to throw out a decent monitor every time you upgrade your system.

I don't want to complain too much, but my options right now are the Mini, which was a little underpowered 18 months ago when they last updated it, the Pro, which is huge and expensive, and just flat out overkill, and the iMac, which is great, I just don't need or want the monitor. Seriously, a 3.0 ghz Core Duo, 8 GB ram, 500 GB hard drive and a graphics card capable of powering two monitors, all in a case that isn't larger than my desk. Too much to ask? Seriously, I don't want to be a fanboy with unreal expectations (30" touch screen cinema display, etc), I just want a computer that has similar specs as the iMac without a monitor. In other words, what 80% of the PC desktops at an electronic store are.

Oh yeah, and they better not put out a machine like I mentioned, but without firewire. Some of us in the digital audio world still use it religiously.
post #140 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat View Post

Seriously, a 3.0 ghz Core Duo, 8 GB ram, 500 GB hard drive and a graphics card capable of powering two monitors, all in a case that isn't larger than my desk. Too much to ask?

Apparently, yes. Why sell one machine that's "just right" when you can sell three others instead?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat View Post

Oh yeah, and they better not put out a machine like I mentioned, but without firewire.

I expect only the bottom-of-the-line models to delete Firewire. There's a huge user base already heavily invested in Firewire-equipped DV video cameras (although that is changing).
post #141 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat View Post

Oh yeah, and they better not put out a machine like I mentioned, but without firewire. Some of us in the digital audio world still use it religiously.

Even then, it wouldn't be much of an issue. If they bought out a Mini Tower, it would likely have PCI slots in which you could fit a FireWire card.
post #142 of 144
Hope truly does spring eternal. The never ending debate over the xMac.

I seriously doubt it will ever happen. Apple is making huge gross margins, expanding their user base. They have no apparent financial incentive to produce a reliable, mid to upper end consumer expandable, flexible tower.

I made the word "apparent" bold for a reason, as I still believe they could expand their sales substantially without any loss on gross margins by offering one, but regrettably I don't expect them to.
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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post #143 of 144
Quote:
I made the word "apparent" for a reason, as I still believe they could expand their sales substantially without any loss on gross margins by offering one, but regrettably I don't expect them to.



We live in hope.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #144 of 144
All in good time...
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