When will Apple innovate again?

This is Future Hardware, so I don't want discuss OSX or iApp here. First, let's define "innovation."

Innovation - " The act of introducing something new."

...to which I'll add: to the computer industry.

With that, I'll apply a 5-star rating to Apple's innovativeness (<- an actual word).

- As an exercise, let's take the current iMac. Is this innovate? If you use AtAT's description of it (lump-stick-rectangle), you can argue that it's new. (How many Stick computers have you seen?) But come on, it's an all-in-one design. Been there, done that. ( * / * * * * * )

- How about the iPod? It may be a "breakthrough" product, but a hardware-based MP3 player has been done. It gets points for the Firewire connection. That hasn't been done. ( * * / * * * * * )

- Built-in 802.11b antenna ( * * * * * / * * * * * )
- 22" Cinema display ( * * * * / * * * * * )
- Firewire ( * * * * * / * * * * * )
- Newton ( * * * * / * * * * * ) [for Fran]

We can argue about the Cinema display, as LCDs have been done around, but that's a whopper of a widescreen in the computing world. Any way, you get the idea.

However, when I look back, there haven't been as many innovations as I thought. Maybe someone can remind me of a few. But for now, the question is: WHAT'S NeXT?

- Bluetooth-enabled peripherals?
- Wireless video connection?
- Zero-button mouse?
- What the heck is Gigawire anyway?
- Sexbots? (I have to stop reading Crazy Apple Rumors)

[Note: Using the G5 is not innovate -- other computers also have microprocessors, if you can believe it. A Quad G5 in a consumer computer is, though. Get it?]

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>In a few weeks when the G5 comes out </strong><hr></blockquote>

That's innovative because...?

We know Apple can make cool designs. I love my girlfriend's TiBook, for example: **** for the widescreen in a laptop, and the first all-titanium housing.

Once more, Innovative = New, as in not introduced before, and not "oh, is that a new tie?"

Fran: forgot about the handwriting technology. You're right.

[edit: punctuations, punctuations]

[ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: GardenOfEarthlyDelights ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by pdino:
<strong>your definition and your application of it are both poorly done. #1, "the act of introducing something new to the computer industry" was done i guess 3 basic times at the keynote. iphoto, the new imac and the 14" ibook. all weren't in the industry before. they introduced them and they were new. so by your definition all of these should get a 5 out of 5.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The definition of innovation comes from the dictionary. I added "to the computer industry," because Apple doesn't make cars, planes, etc.

iPhoto is software. This is a hardware topic.
A 14" iBook is innovative? As I said before, a "new tie" isn't innovative, as ties have existed before. It's just new to you, as a used car that you bought. I stick by my definitions.

[quote]Originally posted by pdino:
<strong>but i pretty much know what you mean. and i don't think you're being consistent. the cinema display. it's a bigger version of the already present lcd display. so what. is "bigger" really innovative?</strong><hr></blockquote>

As I stated, you can argue this one. Bigger &lt;&gt; Innovative, but I think SGI's 21" screen wasn't a wide-screen format. But the Cinema had ADC, which was new (good or bad).

[quote]Originally posted by pdino:
<strong>the new imac. you give it a one? i think you're not being objective here. the all in one has been done at least 5 times by apple, as long ago as 1984. and i'll bet you take the old imac to be revolutionary. it came with color, but so too did the 20th anniv and the TV macs. so, wherein lies what i believe to be the innovation in this product? well, it's the first all in one computer that utilizes an lcd display in an elegant way. and further incoroporates high power and doesn't sacrifice any of it for the sake of a simple (and more uninteresting) design.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Cool &lt;&gt; Innovative. What's innovative about it? A G4? A Super Drive? An all-in-one LCD screen? Been there, done that.

[quote]Originally posted by pdino:
<strong>I get the impression you're not impressed with anything made by apple that isn't truly revolutionary. (which is a better word for what you seem to be searching for) and, well, get ready for some disappointments in your future.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Revolutionary may not necessarily be the same as innovative. You can make the argument that the original iMac was revolutionary, and I would tend to agree. But remember, the original Mac was an all-in-one design.

Disappointed? I don't think so, as I have low expectations from Apple. I was actually happy to hear about the 14" iBook. And I love the TiBook, as I've also stated.

[quote]Originally posted by pdino:
<strong>but on the speculation.
gigawire i have to imagine is just firewire gen. 2. thinking about it, firewire is 400 mbps, the latest gen was supposed to be 800. and that was a while ago. i'll be by now they have it up to gigabiit range</strong><hr></blockquote>

Is speeding up Firewire innnovative? I'm struggling on this one.

[quote]Originally posted by pdino:
<strong>wireless video? i'd be mighty impressed if they could do that. i envision the need of a satelitte dish for that to work. and i'd buy whatever they came out with!! </strong><hr></blockquote>

I'd be impressed, too.

[quote]Originally posted by pdino:
<strong>oh wait, the G5 is not innovative? please.</strong><hr></blockquote>

If it incorporates Hypertransport, RapidIO or sexbots, it would be innovative.

If it's just faster, or more Altivec units, then someone will have to explain to me why that's innovative to the computer industry.

I'm not a pessimist. I just want to see cool things that make me go, "oooh." And I want this to come from Apple.

[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong>Apple has shifted their innovative approach to more fruitful territory. They learned from the Newton: The iPod wasn't the first, but it was released when Apple could make it the best, before the other companies had refined their designs into something truly appealing. Generally, it's a good idea to let the pioneers take the arrows.

Apple has instead concentrated on two things:

Taking what was appealing in theory but either poorly implemented or cost-prohibitive (or both) and releasing a well-designed version at an approachable price. This is actually a return to the Mac's roots. One recent innovation - which admittedly is software-based, but relevant to hardware - is the steady reduction of the dependency on hardware to extend the capabilities of the machine. By the time March rolls around, a bottom of the line (LCD) iMac will be able to do things that not even the top of the line PowerMac could do this time last year: n-channel audio; real-time effects; etc. This is working toward a major design innovation that Steve has sought for years, namely the elimination of the need to open the box and handle circuit boards.

Engineering, both mechanical and material. In materials engineering, Apple has been innovating like mad. Nobody had ever tried to do anything like the iMac's colored shell with plastic before. The tolerances were previously unheard of. The Cube's silvery enclosure was actually believed to be impossible (instead, it was only very difficult...). The patterned iMacs used plastic in a way that had never been done before. For mechanical engineering: The Cube. The new iMac - both the compact base and the screen pivot. Apple collaborated with Pioneer on the SuperDrive, and with Lucent on AirPort. Apparently, they also work with their LCD suppliers to get higher-than-normal quality displays.

Apple's been very busy.

If the rumors are true, and Apple has taken a lead in engineering the G5 (they had a hand in the G4 too), that will count for Apple innovation as well. Especially if it ships with multiple cores.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree with your entire post. I guess I just want more. I'm actually pretty happy with Apple's current fare.

But wouldn't dual G4s in a TiBook be cool?

[quote]Originally posted by Wrong Robot:
<strong>

the current pro mouse is technically zero button, as the whole unit Rocks forward to complete a click, as opposed to using your fingers to push a button,I LOVe the pro mouse, but I don't use mine cause I need 3 buttons at least
apple should redesign the pro mouse slightly, make it capable of rocking forward/backward and left and right, that way you have left click/right click and the forward and back COULD be a scroll wheel type deal(or just customizable)</strong><hr></blockquote>



I still like this one.

[quote]Originally posted by koffedrnkr:
<strong>here's something else...innovation is as much perception as it is inspiration. innovation only "works" if everyone around you agrees your way is better. this is something apple has become very good at...taking an idea with "innovative potential" and turning it into technology people will talk about around the water cooler.

for example...apple invented firewire quite a few years ago. it was true innovation...and nobody cared. apple put firewire on their new systems...and very few people cared. apple puts a firewire port on the ipod so a CD only takes 10 seconds to download and suddenly everyone gets it. firewire is innovation! the same will be said of the new imac too. they didn't invent the flat screened computer, but they know how to make that idea sexy and, er, innovative.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Innovation is simply something new, not if it works, or is cool, or widely accepted. It may not mean cool, or good or even bad. It is simply new.

What a company does with innovation is independent of the innovation itself (see Iridium).

Here's a stupid innovation: the minivan.

Chrysler introduced this in the dark days of the 1980s. Not only did it become a top seller for them, but others quickly imitated it to capture some of their success. What other advantages did it give Chrysler? How about a higher margin on minivans than their competitors. You can consider the original iMac Apple's minivan.

If Apple gave us their Inkwell technology in their next 'Book update, I'd be happy with that innovation.

Geeesh... I'm just trying to be a purveyor in interesting discussion.

First of all, ratings are subjective. Don't like the Oscars? Come up with the Golden Globe. What I rate are based on my opinion, which is subjective. Why is green better than blue? It's not-- it's strictly subjective.

If you don't like my ratings, provide your own, with your reasons. That's fine. Then come up with an Apple innovation (that you may want).

Remember-- the first part of Apple's slogan is...

Think

[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong>

I find it odd that you give the new iMac such low marks, then. Yes, it's "just" an all-in-one, in about the same way that the original iBook was "just" a laptop. Apple just reconceptualized the all-in-one.

...

Then there's the simple fact that the top of the line iMac is capable, out of the box, of things that were difficult or impossible for any personal computer to do a year ago. That ought to count for something.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, I see your point. As an engineer, I look inside the box first. For design, it's certainly innovative.

However, just because it's better than a year ago, it would be hard to justify that as innovation. In that case, "innovation" could be applied too broadly, and wouldn't be useful.

[quote]Originally posted by JRC:
<strong>

STUPID INNOVATION?

Have you READ my minivan statements? Specifically, the Dodge Caravan 4-cyl, DOHC model.

What's stupid about it, GoED's opinion?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Touchy. Okay-- I'll take the stupid back. I don't actually think minivans are stupid, I think the fact that minivans are an innovation is stupid, even if it falls within the definition of "innovation." Like I said, it's an opinion. You have yours.

Personally, I like small, sporty cars. Speed Thrills.

By the way, I'm an automotive safety engineer. You may want to consider another car...

[quote]Originally posted by jimmac:
<strong>G of ED,

imac, the new imac, no beige, El Capitan, ipod, colors, the cube, Firewire, no floppy ( bold move ), no CRT for entire line ( another bold move ). All of this in the last 3 years. Webtser's defines Innovation as: a new idea, method, or device. And of course you didn't want to talk about software. You just haven't been paying attention.

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, whatever. Define why they're innovative. My first Apple ][ didn't come with a floppy. Let's use reason.

Also, this is the Future Hardware forum, not Past Hardware, and not Software. What was the topic again...?

[quote]Originally posted by jimmac:
<strong>G of ED,
The G4 tower I bought in 2000 was the first Mac out of 4 ( and computer ) I've owned that didn't have a floppy drive. Don't blame me for being late to the party. As for the rest Amorph has already said what I would have. Design comes under the heading of new idea ( as per Webster's definition ). The El Capitan case is innovative because of ease of use.
The original imac didn't look like anything else on the market ( a sea of beige ) a new idea again. The new imac is innovative for the reasons Amorph has already stated. Firewire.... well it's faster. I think I've made my point. These all fall under the definition of innovative as set by Websters ( which I accept above any party on this board ). Just because you personally don't find them interesting doesn't make it any different. If you don't believe me, look it up for yourself.

[ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agreed with Amorph regarding design. Relax.

I took my definition from American Heritage. The British/ Australian/ Canadian/ New Zealand/ Every-other-English-speaking-user may take exception to it, but it's then only dictionary I have.

El Capitan is cool. I have one. Ease of opening the case? The top of the old Apple ][ just popped out.

Different does not necessarily mean Innovative. Or do you believe Dell is also being innovative?

New means innovative. I'm using the dictionary's definition. But like I said before, if you get a new tie for Christmas, is that an innovative tie?

If it blinks, plays "Jingle Bells," and puts your kids to bed, that could be innovative. But I wouldn't want it.

Cool does not necessarily mean innovative, either.

[Not directed to anyone in general.]

Besides, this is Future Hardware. Doesn't anybody want to talk about what innovation Apple should introduce anymore? Anti-gravity G5 Towers to ease dusting?

What about a wireless audio/video rack component that uses 802.11x to stream content to your stereo or tv from the computer?

Don't worry about whether past Apple designs were innovative or not.

Look at the Past for inspiration, if you want, but we're heading for the Future.

Man, you guys are touchy lot.

"G of ED." Funny.