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Reasons to Buy a Mac.

post #1 of 68
Thread Starter 
A friend asked me to put together a list of reasons to buy a Mac that he can use to convince his parents to get him a MacBook instead of a PC. I put together these seven already, but I'm sure there're some missing and would appreciate the help.
  1. There are zero viruses on the Mac
  2. Comes pre-installed with industry-leading applications like iPhoto, iMovie and Time Machine for automated backups.
  3. If necessary, it's possible to run Windows on a Mac
  4. Apple Stores offer free technical support
  5. Macs have the highest customer satisfaction ratings and are more reliable
  6. Macs are widely considered easier to usenot just from a user interface point of view, but also when it comes to common tasks like networking
  7. It's easier to instal and uninstall applications

Also, while I think that style is a responsible consideration, my friends will only be swayed by objective facts. Thanks.
post #2 of 68
Most macs, (from an everyday user perspective),have a much longer life over PC's.
A PC machine must be updated every 2-3 years, macs 4-6 years.

MUUUUCH less upkeep, and a smoother OS
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post #3 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevowski View Post

Most macs, (from an everyday user perspective),have a much longer life over PC's.
A PC machine must be updated every 2-3 years, macs 4-6 years.

MUUUUCH less upkeep, and a smoother OS

Macs aren't without their problems, but I do concur with the above statements, while in general, they are much less prone to debilitating issues than Windows-based PCs.

This is from my experience in giant corporations with both biases, medium-sized agencies, dotcom startups, and my own business. Of course, you'll find pro-Apple sentiment here, but if you wander off to other forums and online communities, you'll find a lot of detractors-- most without real merit. So there you go.
post #4 of 68
Higher resale value.
Better looking.
A more attractive upgrade path (to 64-bit Snow Leopard + Nvidia etc.).
Access to Unix under the hood.
Lower power consumption (on the Mini).
Quieter (often).
Trending "greener" (New MacBricks got a top environmental rating).
Company is the most financially secure (it's hiring, not firing or hire-freezing).
Sturdier (the MacBrick laptops, that is).
post #5 of 68
The MOST important reason: OS X (Unix-based), not flaky Windows.
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post #6 of 68
OSX OSX OSX X1 or X10 or X100. The answer is still OSX.
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post #7 of 68
how often do you hear of someone complaining about their mac?
post #8 of 68
Does anyone else feel like WinXP makes certain file management tasks easier? I live in dual mac-pc world and I'm slowly migrating to mac-only but will definitely run windows in a VM as well.

i never understood why certain functions were so crippled on os x? the OS is so stable and well-polished but there are definiteyl gains to be made as far as usability is concerned. the "Finder" needs to learn a thing or two from the windows "Explorer." for example:

let's create the following scenario:
You have Folder X with files A and B. it resides in directory Z.
when you move X from Z to another directory Y that also has 'X' but with only files A, B, but also C, mac's finder will REPLACE the other X with the one you are moving, thereby PERMANENTLY DELETING file C.
why does it do this? this is ridiculous. In windows, a dialog will prompt you asking to "replace" which is actually a misnomer since it's asking you to 'compare' directories and actually MERGES them.

where is the MERGE function in finder? it's not programmed in. this completely baffles me.

additionally, when you are in "list" view in the finder, why can't you DRAG and SELECT files? this also completely amazes me.

there are a couple of other things i can't recall right now that gives Windows the leg-up as far as file management and navigation. it's sad because OS X is actually the better OS with the modern code-base that is leaps and bounds ahead of windows. but it still has short-comings with basic functions like merging and selecting.

also, since OS X is what makes macs different from PCs, this criticism of OS X applies to all macs and the mac vs. pc debate. (What's the point of buying a mac and running windows only on it? you get it for OS X.)
post #9 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by dukee101 View Post

let's create the following scenario:
You have Folder X with files A and B. it resides in directory Z.
when you move X from Z to another directory Y that also has 'X' but with only files A, B, but also C, mac's finder will REPLACE the other X with the one you are moving, thereby PERMANENTLY DELETING file C.
why does it do this? this is ridiculous. In windows, a dialog will prompt you asking to "replace" which is actually a misnomer since it's asking you to 'compare' directories and actually MERGES them.

where is the MERGE function in finder? it's not programmed in. this completely baffles me.

If you already have files A & B in Y why would you want to drag files A & B to Y?
post #10 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by brax.j View Post

If you already have files A & B in Y why would you want to drag files A & B to Y?

...because sometimes you have the same folders across different computers and drives and you need to merge them, etc... the situation definitely arises. don't act like it's some heinous thing users never need to do.
post #11 of 68
Many of these already mentioned but my order or preference:

1. A pleasure to use. With a Mac you feel like it's working FOR you not AGAINST you.
2. Productive. The OS Is reliable and stays out of the way, enabling you to do what you want quicker and easier. No annoying pop-ups or confusing dialogs that make no sense.
3. Better support. With Apple's support forums, and forums like AppleInsider, chances are you'll be able to find a solution to a question within minutes. The Mac community is very supportive.
4. Customer satisfaction matters to Apple. If you are concerned or something isn't right, Apple are more likely to take your concerns seriously and offer you replacements if necessary.
5. Compatibility. Macs are the most compatible computers, with ports from Unix relatively easy, Macs offer an increasingly large amount of professional and industry leading software across all genres. If necessary, you can install Windows but you probably won't want to!
6. Stylish and well built. Apple's products not only look good but feel good to use and are built to last.
7. Great bundled software. Apple's built-in suite of software means you can start doing many things without needing to download anything. From managing mail, photos, editing PDFs, saving PDFs from any app, creating a podcast and playing a game of chess, do it all out of the box.
post #12 of 68
My wife will not use a windows machine. I just replaced her iBook Dual USB today with a new MacBook. She just could not get the hang of my work laptop (Dell PC) when she borrows it and all she did was complain.

She just has a much easier time using the MacBook, I just gave in and bought her a new MacBook for her birthday.

She fell in love with my personal iMac that a Mac is all she considers.

For domestic peace she got her own new Mac.
post #13 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALBIM View Post

how often do you hear of someone complaining about their mac?

That depends... Are you talking about AppleInsider or real life?
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post #14 of 68
What puzzles me is why Mac users think Windows users are eternally struggling with viruses. It's such a tired, old argument. I've got a free anti-virus package installed with minimal footprint and I don't download dodgey files, clicks dodgey links or accept dodgey attachments. And lo and behold, the Windows experience is as equally virus free as any Mac experience.

If you're a gamer, the first thing you have to do to a Mac is install Windows to be in with any sort of chance of playing your entire collection. And then switching between OSs to do different tasks is a real chore, so you end up sticking with running Windows most of the time anyway, which means you might as well have just bought a Windows PC to begin with. And the really tired old argument that you have an Xbox360/PlayStation/whatever to play games on might apply to some people, but certainly doesn't apply to everyone. Show me The Sims 2, Sim City 4, The Movies, Rollercoaster Tycoon, Railroads, etc, on a console, and I might agree with you that a console is a viable option for gaming.

Apple certainly has the edge in that the entire package is designed and made by themselves, but if you buy your PC from a manufacturer rather than building it yourself, you do get a warranty on the entire package, not just the hardware itself. Apple shops are so few and far between in the UK that actually being able to pop in a see an Apple Genius is probably out of the question for the majority of the population anyway. It's a good example of how Apple give priorty to their native country. I suspect they would have shops in just about every major city in the UK if they thought the business was there.

The easier to use point is very very subjective indeed. I've been a Windows user for a long time now, and when I tried my friends iMac it was anything but easier to use. In fact, lots of things seemed totally backward and very difficult to do in comparison to a Windows PC! File and folder sharing on OSX seemed to be a very long winded task in comparison to the one or 2 clicks required in Windows, and don't even get me started on printer sharing. Needless to say, 4 months after she got the Mac, my friend *still* hasn't managed to get it to share the printer. Apparently we need some sort of special printer driver which isn't provided on the Canon CD, or on the Canon website, and is anything but easy to find, install and configure. On a Windows PC, you right click the printer, choose 'sharing' and off you go, printer is shared and accessible by all PCs on the network. I wish the same could be said of the Mac, but it simply is not true. We also managed to get a CD stuck in the drive, and the Mac wouldn't boot, and with no physical eject button, we were stumped for about 10 minutes until we Google a solution. What the Mac does do nicely is play well with just about any bit of hardware you plug in. However, with Vista, I think Windows has caught up a lot in that respect, as it has a vast library of drivers included with it, so most things install and work straight away on Vista too. But certainly, the Mac seemed easier in that respect.

The Mac is a bit quicker in that it boots up faster, but I feel that 'sleep' mode on Vista has also closed that gap since you can get Vista back up and running within a second or two too. The actual operational speed of opening programs etc etc, was no different between the two. OSX looks a bit flashier with its bling effects (always good!).

The Mac is far easier to setup physically than a PC. But unless you plan on moving it around a lot, this is less of a striking advantage, and more of an occassional convenience. The appearance may appeal to some and not to others. You can of course get visually appealing Windows PCs too, so there's no way one could be a 'winner' as the whole are is so subjective. PCs, more often than not, have the ability to be upgraded with new components more comprehensively than a Mac. Comparitavely, Mac hardware has a longer life due to the requirements of the software not changing as quickly. Building and tinkering with hardware is a hobby of mine, so I *have* to be able to build my own machine from scratch, and swap out of part I desire (this is exactly why Macs weren't designed for me!). If you're happy to live with the set hardware, and forgo gaming when the graphics card reaches EOL (which is usually very quick!) then the Mac is fine.
post #15 of 68
mrochester
Please do us a favor and stop posting nonsense, because apparently you have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about! Sharing on Mac OS is a "very long winded task"? Oh really?? If you call going to System Preferences-> Sharing and choosing whatever you need to share (including a printer) a "very long winded task" then... No comment.
You like to build your own machine from scratch, swap out a part or two? That's cool. But you see, there's no need to do that with the Mac! One can easily run Leopard on a 4 year old machine without any problem. Is it the case with Vista?? That sorry excuse for an OS (Vista) will consume 2 Gigs of RAM just to run itself.
Running a free anti-virus software will keep your PC free of viruses, adware and spyware? Yeah right!
post #16 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenny View Post

mrochester
Please do us a favor and stop posting nonsense, because apparently you have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about! Sharing on Mac OS is a "very long winded task"? Oh really?? If you call going to System Preferences-> Sharing and choosing whatever you need to share (including a printer) a "very long winded task" then... No comment.
You like to build your own machine from scratch, swap out a part or two? That's cool. But you see, there's no need to do that with the Mac! One can easily run Leopard on a 4 year old machine without any problem. Is it the case with Vista?? That sorry excuse for an OS (Vista) will consume 2 Gigs of RAM just to run itself.
Running a free anti-virus software will keep your PC free of viruses, adware and spyware? Yeah right!

It might have been adding a network location to OSX was the tricky bit. I seem to recall having to actually type in the network address of the shared folder instead of just being able to automatically browse all available shares. Also, simply ticking to share the printer does not actually make it work. It appears on all of the other computers, but when you actually try to print you get the message 'access is denied', or something to that effect. Why OSX is denying access to it is anyones guess, but the point was that it is not easy or straightforward, and certainly more difficult to make work than it is on a Windows PC.

I don't want a PC that doesn't require building or tweaking as I enjoy doing that. To me, computers are a hobby, not just tools. In my opinion, it would be very boring to have the same old hardware for 4 years, and the graphics on a 4 year old computer would certainly not be capable of running modern games at all.

Actually Vista uses about 1GB of RAM when up and running and idle. It caches the rest. RAM is, at least currently, so cheap, that that point is at this moment in time, irrelevant. 2GB of RAM is about £20.

And errr, yes, running a free anti-virus really does keep your PC free of viruses, spyware, adware, etc. My 4 Vista PCs all manage fine, as do the 10+ XP PCs I built for friends and family. Frankly, if you're stupid enough to run the risks of getting a virus, I have no sympathy if you do.
post #17 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

It might have been adding a network location to OSX was the tricky bit. I seem to recall having to actually type in the network address of the shared folder instead of just being able to automatically browse all available shares. Also, simply ticking to share the printer does not actually make it work. It appears on all of the other computers, but when you actually try to print you get the message 'access is denied', or something to that effect. Why OSX is denying access to it is anyones guess, but the point was that it is not easy or straightforward, and certainly more difficult to make work than it is on a Windows PC.

I don't want a PC that doesn't require building or tweaking as I enjoy doing that. To me, computers are a hobby, not just tools. In my opinion, it would be very boring to have the same old hardware for 4 years, and the graphics on a 4 year old computer would certainly not be capable of running modern games at all.

Actually Vista uses about 1GB of RAM when up and running and idle. It caches the rest. RAM is, at least currently, so cheap, that that point is at this moment in time, irrelevant. 2GB of RAM is about £20.

And errr, yes, running a free anti-virus really does keep your PC free of viruses, spyware, adware, etc. My 4 Vista PCs all manage fine, as do the 10+ XP PCs I built for friends and family. Frankly, if you're stupid enough to run the risks of getting a virus, I have no sympathy if you do.

Wow you need to read the book if you can't do simple things like share a printer without getting denied and Vista really does need 2GB of RAM according to here.
post #18 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by brax.j View Post

Wow you need to read the book if you can't do simple things like share a printer without getting denied and Vista really does need 2GB of RAM according to here.

LOL, I really wish people would do themselves a favour and READ the posts. It looks like I'll have to explain this to you as if you are a child. Vista *uses* 1GB of RAM when up and running, which I said in reply to Lenny's post who said that Vista will consume 2GB of RAM just to run itself. That is incorrect, untrue, false. You will ideally need 2GB for your system *as a whole*, but Vista itself does not consume that much RAM.

And if I have to go and buy a book, research on the internet, ask around, etc, it just goes to show how not easy it has been to get OSX to share a printer in a friendly manner.
post #19 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobody Special View Post

A friend asked me to put together a list of reasons to buy a Mac that he can use to convince his parents to get him a MacBook instead of a PC.

Do you remember the movie Matrix? There is a scene where Neo was offered two pills. It's something like that.
mrochester
1 GB of RAM is MINIMUM requirement to run Vista. Ideally you would need 4GB to feel more or less comfortably. Actually, if I'm not mistaking, 4GB of RAM is maximum that a 32bit version of Windoze can use.
post #20 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenny View Post

Do you remember the movie Matrix? There is a scene where Neo was offered two pills. It's something like that.
mrochester
1 GB of RAM is MINIMUM requirement to run Vista. Ideally you would need 4GB to feel more or less comfortably. Actually, if I'm not mistaking, 4GB of RAM is maximum that a 32bit version of Windoze can use.

1gb is the minimum but Vista is very comfortable on 2gb of RAM. You'll need 4gb for the latest games.
post #21 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

Also, simply ticking to share the printer does not actually make it work. It appears on all of the other computers, but when you actually try to print you get the message 'access is denied', or something to that effect. Why OSX is denying access to it is anyones guess, but the point was that it is not easy or straightforward, and certainly more difficult to make work than it is on a Windows PC.

That's funny, because I just got a new MBP and I have had absolutely no issues sharing printers connected to other computers. All the computers are on the same wireless network. I have an HP Deskjet connected to an iMac via USB, and all I did was click the little checkbox on the iMac. Go to the MBP, open the Printer Setup Utility. Printer shows up in a couple seconds, over the air via the iMac. Select the printer, click add. Open document, click print. Document prints, over the air.

The printer will even print if the iMac is totally asleep, and the printer is off. Its simply amazing to me how easy it is, I don't know what you did wrong.

--mAc
post #22 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by mAc-warrior View Post

That's funny, because I just got a new MBP and I have had absolutely no issues sharing printers connected to other computers. All the computers are on the same wireless network. I have an HP Deskjet connected to an iMac via USB, and all I did was click the little checkbox on the iMac. Go to the MBP, open the Printer Setup Utility. Printer shows up in a couple seconds, over the air via the iMac. Select the printer, click add. Open document, click print. Document prints, over the air.

The printer will even print if the iMac is totally asleep, and the printer is off. Its simply amazing to me how easy it is, I don't know what you did wrong.

--mAc

Your setup is different as your sharing a printer between other Macs. The computers that are all trying to print to the OSX machine in my example run Windows, but OSX just won't let them print . As soon as we boot into Windows XP on the Mac the printer is shared and works fine, so there's something in OSX that is causing a problem.
post #23 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALBIM View Post

how often do you hear of someone complaining about their mac?

For those who have a Mac that fits their needs not often.
post #24 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

Your setup is different as your sharing a printer between other Macs. The computers that are all trying to print to the OSX machine in my example run Windows, but OSX just won't let them print . As soon as we boot into Windows XP on the Mac the printer is shared and works fine, so there's something in OSX that is causing a problem.

My point was that the Macs work together perfectly. Your point is that Windows machines work together perfectly. Yet, you claim that the Mac is somehow the problem. I submit that your Windows PCs are the problem, not the Mac. Your claim that it is harder to get printer sharing to work under OS X is incorrect. If the printer was connected to the PC and you couldn't get the PC to share the printer, would you blame the PC?

In any case, it really doesn't matter. Have you read this link?

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.h...5/en/8666.html

It seems to spell out the process quite clearly. I have a feeling downloading Bonjour for Windows will solve this issue pretty quickly.

--mAc
post #25 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by mAc-warrior View Post

My point was that the Macs work together perfectly. Your point is that Windows machines work together perfectly. Yet, you claim that the Mac is somehow the problem. I submit that your Windows PCs are the problem, not the Mac. Your claim that it is harder to get printer sharing to work under OS X is incorrect. If the printer was connected to the PC and you couldn't get the PC to share the printer, would you blame the PC?

In any case, it really doesn't matter. Have you read this link?

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.h...5/en/8666.html

It seems to spell out the process quite clearly. I have a feeling downloading Bonjour for Windows will solve this issue pretty quickly.

--mAc

Sadly, Bonjour for Windows didn't work either. And the reason I say the Mac is the problem is that one of the Windows PCs also has a printer attached, and once shared the Mac and other PCs can pick up and use that printer no problem. It's just the one attached to the Mac that won't work.
post #26 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by iomatic View Post

Macs aren't without their problems, but I do concur with the above statements, while in general, they are much less prone to debilitating issues than Windows-based PCs.

This is from my experience in giant corporations with both biases, medium-sized agencies, dotcom startups, and my own business. Of course, you'll find pro-Apple sentiment here, but if you wander off to other forums and online communities, you'll find a lot of detractors-- most without real merit. So there you go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevowski View Post

Most macs, (from an everyday user perspective),have a much longer life over PC's.
A PC machine must be updated every 2-3 years, macs 4-6 years.

MUUUUCH less upkeep, and a smoother OS

Oh, I don't know... I'm a long-time PC user trying to return to Mac. Things are better than when I started out using toggle switches and punch cards, but...

I just wrote Apple a feedback comment about how disappointed I am by the number of nag screens (frequent software updates and "important" notices) and a miserable carryover from PC-land where programs take focus on their own when you are in the middle of working in another program. In my opinion, neither Mac nor PC has mastered the trick of letting the human do the work they want to do, when they want to do it. Why can't the software just leave us alone if it's not an emergency?

Stability? I find myself using "Force quit" about as often as I use the three-finger salute on a PC, and I'm running Leopard with full updates (oh, yes, all those updates... what was that about every 4-6 YEARS?)

Both mac and pc try to outsmart the human user and it's always a failure.
post #27 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobody Special View Post

A friend asked me to put together a list of reasons to buy a Mac that he can use to convince his parents to get him a MacBook instead of a PC. I put together these seven already, but I'm sure there're some missing and would appreciate the help.
  1. There are zero viruses on the Mac
  2. Comes pre-installed with industry-leading applications like iPhoto, iMovie and Time Machine for automated backups.
  3. If necessary, it's possible to run Windows on a Mac
  4. Apple Stores offer free technical support
  5. Macs have the highest customer satisfaction ratings and are more reliable
  6. Macs are widely considered easier to usenot just from a user interface point of view, but also when it comes to common tasks like networking
  7. It's easier to instal and uninstall applications

Also, while I think that style is a responsible consideration, my friends will only be swayed by objective facts. Thanks.


if your friend was to pay the same amount of money for a Windows PC that they are planning to do on a Mac then they would have very little problem, greater compatibillity and far superior performance.

problems in the windows world stem from cheap hardware, on the right hardware Windows is just as stable as OSx
post #28 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenny View Post

mrochester
Please do us a favor and stop posting nonsense, because apparently you have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about! Sharing on Mac OS is a "very long winded task"? Oh really?? If you call going to System Preferences-> Sharing and choosing whatever you need to share (including a printer) a "very long winded task" then... No comment.
You like to build your own machine from scratch, swap out a part or two? That's cool. But you see, there's no need to do that with the Mac! One can easily run Leopard on a 4 year old machine without any problem. Is it the case with Vista?? That sorry excuse for an OS (Vista) will consume 2 Gigs of RAM just to run itself.
Running a free anti-virus software will keep your PC free of viruses, adware and spyware? Yeah right!

I agree with you on OSX being far superior to Vista on its efficiency and ease of use, but he is correct on the virus side of things. I run Avast! Anti-Virus on my old Tosh and I have been to every sketchy torrent-keygen-serial site out there and never gotten a virus on my PC. Granted I know my way around a computer pretty well, but it still speaks a world of good about a well equipped PC. Also, the Finder system in OSX has a lot of things to learn from the way Windows Explorer works. Not so much on the internal architecture of it, that is excellent, but the way the user is able to organize files leaves a lot to be desired.
post #29 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenny View Post

Do you remember the movie Matrix? There is a scene where Neo was offered two pills. It's something like that.
mrochester
1 GB of RAM is MINIMUM requirement to run Vista. Ideally you would need 4GB to feel more or less comfortably. Actually, if I'm not mistaking, 4GB of RAM is maximum that a 32bit version of Windoze can use.

IIRC on Windows XP 32bit or Vista 32bit, the *actual* maximum RAM available is actually less, like 3 point something GB. So even 4GB on a 32bit Windoze system is wasting your money!

So people say, yeah, I'll run 4GB RAM on my Vista 64-bit. I say to them, good luck with that mess.
post #30 of 68
I re-ranked the original poster's list to what I think are the top reasons. Notice the reason that is now at the very bottom.
  1. It's easier to instal and uninstall applications
  2. Macs are widely considered easier to use—not just from a user interface point of view, but also when it comes to common tasks like networking
  3. Comes pre-installed with industry-leading applications like iPhoto, iMovie and Time Machine for automated backups.
  4. Apple Stores offer free technical support
  5. There are zero viruses on the Mac
  6. Macs have the highest customer satisfaction ratings and are more reliable
  7. If necessary, it's possible to run Windows on a Mac
post #31 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

What puzzles me is why Mac users think Windows users are eternally struggling with viruses. It's such a tired, old argument. I've got a free anti-virus package installed with minimal footprint and I don't download dodgey files, clicks dodgey links or accept dodgey attachments. And lo and behold, the Windows experience is as equally virus free as any Mac experience...

It's because people either don't install any antivirus on Windows, or it gets so loaded up with all sorts of garbage anti-this, anti-that, the average user has no idea what is going on.

The most common reason, is probably they installed some outdated/ pirated antivirus that didn't update and so got infected by newer viruses.

Like one of the posters mention, for my gaming PC for a good two years, I just had Avast! Home FREE Edition, just let it update when it needed to, and that's all I needed. End of story.

I have no idea why a lot of PC users I have come across personally have no clue about how awesome Avast! is.

In my office of 30 people or so, I set up about 5 to 10 Windows XP boxes, put Avast on it as soon as installed. Ticked along for at least a few months without any issues. Once the new "IT guy" was in charge, most of his Windows installs were showing "Activation needed" and "Your Antivirus is Expired!" messages after a few weeks.
post #32 of 68
Simply put, Norton is one of the main reasons that PC's suck. It destroys them. When you couple that with all of the terrible trial software, the low knowledge base of the average consumer, and the inherently bad structure of Windows, it is a wonder that any average person can make a PC function; everything is working against them.

I feel like with a Mac it is the exact opposite and that is why they are so superior. Whats even more amazing is that I was able to summarize every downfall of the modern PC in 30 seconds, but Microsoft hasn't been able to figure it out for the past 10 years.
post #33 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICD-EVIL View Post

Simply put, Norton is one of the main reasons that PC's suck. It destroys them. When you couple that with all of the terrible trial software, the low knowledge base of the average consumer, and the inherently bad structure of Windows, it is a wonder that any average person can make a PC function; everything is working against them.

I feel like with a Mac it is the exact opposite and that is why they are so superior. Whats even more amazing is that I was able to summarize every downfall of the modern PC in 30 seconds, but Microsoft hasn't been able to figure it out for the past 10 years.

errr don't install norton then?!?! I'd be interested to hear what you think works against a windows user?
post #34 of 68
Kind of off topic but, (I'm going to send this to M$, who knows maybe I'll get an advisory job out of it, I can dreamm, right?)

If I were the head of Microsoft I would immediately do this:

LONG TERM

-Start from scratch. Spend my money on developing a new and fresh OS that is entirely different internally than that of Windows. I would offer different versions of it, for business give them a version that has a UI very similar to Windows, but with a revamped internal architecture. This would ensure an experience that is familiar enough as not to loose your base in the transition, but still give them the benefits of a new experience. For the consumers offer a version that stretches the boundaries of change a little more. People are bored with Windows, many change to OSX just because they are curious (It wasn't my main reason of course, but I was curious.) I know many don't like the idea of different versions, but I think it is essential. Consumers and businesses use computers for incredibly different purposes and the functionality of their operating systems should reflect that. I'm not saying get "version happy" so to speak, like Microsoft is right now, but be accommodating to both worlds. THIS IS LONG TERM. Microsoft has the cash flow to fund this and in the long term the ends WILL outweigh the means.

-Develop a low cost software suite that is similar to iLife 08. One-Up Apple by making an optional add-on. Apple always claims that the amazing software is a reason that their computers may cost a little more. Give consumers the option to take on this cost. If they want it, great, if they don't then they will have to buy other software anyways. What this does is make the initial buy-in cost lower for the PC. With the new OS Microsoft will be giving consumers the great, fluid functionality that has made OSX such a success but, offering them a lower buy in and the OPTION to buy great software, an option that they don't have with OSX.

SHORT TERM

-Break the deal with the devil that Microsoft has gotten itself into with Norton. Their program is too bulky and slow and most of the time it is more vulnerable than the FREE anti-virus Avast!. I think it is essential that Microsoft supports the competition of multiple anti-virus programs so that viruses cannot be written just to go around one. This step alone would greatly increase the functionality and security of the Windows platform that would be used until the new operating system is unveiled.

-Remove trial software. I know this is a manufacturer thing, they do it to subsidize the cost of computers, but it hurts Microsoft in the end. It is taxing on systems and it serves no functional purpose. The installation of trial software is just another red mark on Windows' rap sheet. People say, "It comes with all of this junk loaded on that slows it down." This tag is not applied to a Toshiba or a Sony, it is applied to Microsoft and Windows. Send out a mandate that requires manufacturers to keep their machines free of dead-weight software. Initially, prices will go up, sales will go down, but it is a necessary sacrifice for the greater good.

-I think offering workshops and such is a waste. If people want to learn more they will go out and research on their own. For the most part, the problem of under-educated users will work itself out by removing the other kinks. If the people don't have any problems to fix then there is no real issue with them being under-educated on how to fix them. This line of thinking goes hand in hand with remedying the cause rather than the effect.

If Microsoft did this, they would be able to completely change the bad perception that people currently have of Windows and ensure a successful future for their business. Of course, developing a fresh OS is not an easy or cheap task, but I believe that they have the ability to do so, and have just been lead in the wrong direction.

I'm sure that after they've burned their $300 million on the Mojave Project, they will realize that damage control alone is not going to save MS.

(I'm sorry, I wrote this pretty quick as I'm working on my finals right now. Grammar may not be 100%)
post #35 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

errr don't install norton then?!?! I'd be interested to hear what you think works against a windows user?

Did you not read? I just went through it.

Most PC's come with a version of Norton on it. Most people keep and pay for this because they don't know any different. Most PC's come with junk dead weight software that takes up space and slows down the computer. Most people don't delete this off. And thus, their system's performance suffers. Windows has a bad architecture and the OS itself requires the use of a large portion of a system's resources just to run properly. This makes the need for more technically advanced systems necessary, and thus, increases the cost of hardware.

None of this would matter if you had users that were as savvy as we are. We know better, we know to remove all the junk, find a good anti-virus, and optimize our system settings, but the overall point is that most people don't. Educating people further in not answer, this only solves the effect and not the inherent cause of the problems.

This scenario leaves Microsoft is in a position where its users are unhappy with their experience and itching to find any better alternative that presents itself. That is why there has been a relatively large consumer movement to macs despite the increased cost of their products.

Get it?
post #36 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICD-EVIL View Post

Did you not read? I just went through it.

Most PC's come with a version of Norton on it. Most people keep and pay for this because they don't know any different. Most PC's come with junk dead weight software that takes up space and slows down the computer. Most people don't delete this off. And thus, their system's performance suffers. Windows has a bad architecture and the OS itself requires the use of a large portion of a system's resources just to run properly. This makes the need for more technically advanced systems necessary, and thus, increases the cost of hardware.

None of this would matter if you had users that were as savvy as we are. We know better, we know to remove all the junk, find a good anti-virus, and optimize our system settings, but the overall point is that most people don't. Educating people further in not answer, this only solves the effect and not the inherent cause of the problems.

This scenario leaves Microsoft is in a position where its users are unhappy with their experience and itching to find any better alternative that presents itself. That is why there has been a relatively large consumer movement to macs despite the increased cost of their products.

Get it?

Pray tell, how could I have possibly read and responded to a post you made AFTER me? Says a lot I think!

What software is on the computer is entirely the responsibility of the computer manufacturers, not Microsoft. Microsoft can lay down guidelines and state that NO trial software can be pre-installed, but that will have the effect of pushing up the cost of the hardware. Most people are probably quite happy to live with the useless trial software than having to pay more. In fact a very average friend at work is currently looking for a laptop. She would never in a million years consider spending double what she intends just to get a MacBook... she would rather live with Vista and all the trial software, and that'll be the mentality of a lot of people. They see computers as tools to getting a job done and can't see any benefit to spending considerably more money on an Apple computer.

Quote:
This makes the need for more technically advanced systems necessary, and thus, increases the cost of hardware

You pay more and get more for your money. With Apple you pay more, but get less for your money. For the same price as an Apple computer, you can get a considerably more high-spec desktop PC. And this extra powerful hardware means it runs just as well, if not better, than the Mac. So again, there's not really any technical temptation towards Apple. It's all in the 'illusion' of being a premium brand.
post #37 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

Pray tell, how could I have possibly read and responded to a post you made AFTER me? Says a lot I think!

Don't be an asshole. I was talking about the post before yours, the one YOU QUOTED. All I did in my last post was go more in dept on the things I originally said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

What software is on the computer is entirely the responsibility of the computer manufacturers, not Microsoft. Microsoft can lay down guidelines and state that NO trial software can be pre-installed, but that will have the effect of pushing up the cost of the hardware. Most people are probably quite happy to live with the useless trial software than having to pay more. In fact a very average friend at work is currently looking for a laptop. She would never in a million years consider spending double what she intends just to get a MacBook... she would rather live with Vista and all the trial software, and that'll be the mentality of a lot of people. They see computers as tools to getting a job done and can't see any benefit to spending considerably more money on an Apple computer.


You pay more and get more for your money. With Apple you pay more, but get less for your money. For the same price as an Apple computer, you can get a considerably more high-spec desktop PC. And this extra powerful hardware means it runs just as well, if not better, than the Mac. So again, there's not really any technical temptation towards Apple. It's all in the 'illusion' of being a premium brand.

It is your friend's choice to do so. That is the way she is choosing to spend her money and there is nothing wrong with that. However, I do like how someone such as yourself, who champions the way of Vista and the PC, talks about it as if it is a massive compromise that she will have to endure.

Why are you on an Apple -driven site? You clearly do not like their products or the philosophy on how they develop them.

And let me make it clear right now. I am not an Apple fanboy. I actually hate Apple. I hate the whole culture of superiority and smugness the follows in it's trails. Every time I go to an Apple store I get incredibly pissed off at how stupid all of the employees are. They all think that the cool factor alone should be enough to sell computers. After they go through their, "it just works, there are no viruses" scheme, they are all out of further selling techniques. It's like a thoughtless mantra that they repeat over and over, leaving out some of the best reasons to actually get a mac in the process. I just completely despise the entire culture of Apple. That said, they make wonderful computers and an amazing OS. This is the only reason I put up with the BS and bought one.

I'm rooting for Microsoft to follow their lead and blow them out of the water with something even better. In the end it just means a better product for everyone.
post #38 of 68
I'm running Vista on 1 gb of ram, a bit slow but useable.
post #39 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

if your friend was to pay the same amount of money for a Windows PC that they are planning to do on a Mac then they would have very little problem, greater compatibillity and far superior performance.

problems in the windows world stem from cheap hardware, on the right hardware Windows is just as stable as OSx

Well people are always touting the price advantage of windows systems, but now you need to spend more to get it to be stable, right, so where is the big price advantage in that, unless people don't want stable systems.
post #40 of 68
Umm...wasn't this a thread about what should he say to convince his parents to buy him a Mac and not what sucks on a Mac, or a PC? Lets stay on topic folks. If I was a moderator, I'd delete about half the posts in here because they have nothing to do with the actual thread itself. The whole idea is, he wants a Mac. I doubt wants to hear crap about flaws in the Mac OS, or Windows OS.

Most of the important reasons have already been stated. iLife, looks, durability, resale value, able to run the Mac OS for years down the road without any issues (pending you get an Intel Mac and not a used PPC Mac).
My website: Macxpress

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My website: Macxpress

24" Aluminum iMac 2.4 GHz, 4GB RAM, 320 GB HDD
Unibody MacBook 2.0 GHz, 3 GB RAM, 160 GB HDD
Quicksilver PowerMac G4 867 MHz, 768 MB PC133, 80 GB HD w/17" Apple Studio LCD...
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