Apple now taking orders for 24-inch LED Cinema Display - Page 3

Don't forget Display Port can drive a DVI monitor just fine, so the new MB/Pro can still be used with most monitors, but the new Apple display should just work great.

That's true.

But a computer will still work without say, a printer. Not the other way around.



I know what you're saying. But a laptop already has a monitor and can go without a separate monitor. Their towers cannot... So Apple has, at least for now, completely eliminated the entire market of pre-existing Mac Pro owners and is relying on the recently available Macbook/Pro owners, many of whom will not want or need a separate display. This does not make sense to me. This is why I think they should have an adapter for these new monitors but they don't. This is why I'm thinking perhaps they cannot meet the demand for these new displays if they opened up the market to all people with computers with DVI ports.

MelGross

I am more confused than before I read this thread. Can the 24" ACD work with a Mac (not a new aluminum laptop) using ANY form of adapter/cable available?

I'm surprised that the 24" ACD doesn't include an IR receiver. It is already uses the USB for connectivity in their notebooks so connecting to the 24" ACD's USB hub wouldn't be an issue. The only three possibilities I can think of are...

...that Apple is no longer focusing on multimedia on their Macs like when they included a remote and introduced FrontRow.

...this ACD

is focused on the notebook line which has an IR receiver that still works while the lid is closed.

...the larger ACDs coming shortly (speculative) will be more focused on the MacPro and will included an IR receiver and FW800 hub to attract up-selling.

That would only be true if they stopped selling their other monitors, which they haven't. There are also many other vendors selling higher-end and lower-end monitors with DL-DVI.

That's a good question. While moving from Display Port on the computer to DVI is easy, see below, moving the other way as yet, is undetermined. I haven't found anything so far for that.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/se...p?keyword=4827

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...3-3769765.html

And this is an interesting article explaining the differences between DP, HDMI, and DVI. It shows why it may not be possible in any relatively simple (AKA cheap) form.

http://www2.electronicproducts.com/D...2008-html.aspx

http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/ev2411w/index.asp

EXACT SAME PANEL!!!

And you get matte??? And you get a 5 year warranty??? And you get dvi??? wow.

We already went through this monitor.

It also doesn't have a video camera, or mic.

3 years, or 30,000 hours, whichever comes first, on the screen and backlight.

Actually it's 5 years or 30k hours. (12 hours a day for 5 years is still under 30k hours). Why are we even disputing the warranty. The warranty on the ACD is 1 year. My friend had a 23" aluminum that he barely used... it died after 13 months. Apple wanted $500 to repair it. He swore of ACDs entirely after that.

To a professional, the coloring is most important... and it is extremely difficult to calibrate a glossy lcd. And mics are already built into every apple computer except the mac pro... of which you can get a cam and mic for dirt cheap. I'll take a matte display over glossy any day of the week.

No. On the spec page, it clearly says this:


Ezio makes it very clear that this is NOT a graphics monitor meant for color work. I assume you read their page. It's a business monitor, or home monitor.

If you want to do color work, you should buy their professional graphics monitors which cost twice the price, or more for a 24". They also don't have LED backlighting.

Interestingly, the head monitor designer of NEC told me that they won't be using LED backlighting for their pro monitors, because of issues with the LEDs.

He said as they age, individual LEDs age differently across the screen, and you will get uneven brightness and color which can't be corrected.

Both NEC and Ezio are staying away from LED backlighting for their pro models as a result. Sometime in the future they will reconsider it.

I did not know that about LEDs... Originally I was going to purchase an NEC... then I saw this. I guess I'll be going back to NEC since they are in that same price range.

Let me tell you, it bothered the hell out of me! I was going to argue with the guy about it, but then I realized he was right!

There are two ways to provide the backlight. One, and the really expensive way, is to use about 60 high power RGB LEDs in a manner that uses a diffuser and reflector to combine the light from all the LEDs into one combined beam. If some LEDs dim too fast, the entire display is affected equally, and can be adjusted.

The other, cheaper way is to use about a thousand white LED's, and distribute them behind the panel. That's the way the (cheap!!!) displays are being made now, including the several thousand dollar 30" displays.

The NEC 20" LED display that they do have uses the first method, is about four to five inches thick, weighs a lot for an LCD, and costs about $7 to $8 thousand bucks. The same for the Samsung.

I don't know how Apple is doing the laptop displays. Some of them use light tubes to distribute the light, but it can't be used for a big display.

On all of Dell's current monitors, if you click on the tech specs page for the monitor, it tells you what type of panel it uses. There's no guessing game.

You're right, but they, and most other manufacturers do change sources for the panels even though it will usually be of the same type.

They are not in the same price range! because they are not the same thing!

The LED technology is new. It is expensive. Right now the only other companies that have listed prices is LaCie* which starts at $2,650 and is not yet available, and Lenovo's ThinkVIsion at $750 which says it ships in 11 days from order.

EIZO has also recently posted a press release which set a delivery date in Japan only, for the end of October. Still not available and the price has been suggested to be JYP$83,000, which today is about US$850.

Oops. NEC apparently has a 21" LED/LCD at $3,700 which is unavailable right now.

Only Apple's LED Cinema Display has a built in camera and speakers.

Most important As Apple has been quite clear about the new LED Cinema Display as boldly advertised,

[CENTER]"The first display made precisely for a MacBook [/CENTER]

"Introducing the 24-inch LED Cinema Display
(for) your new MacBook, MacBook Pro and MacBook Air."

http://www.apple.com/displays/ In addition, as described on the LED Cinema Display, Technical Specifications page:
http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.html

Compatability
"Compatable with MacBook, MacBook Air and MacBook Pro systems with Mini DisplayPort So, unless you have or about to get a new MacBook, MacBook Pro or MacBook Air, right now the LED Cinema Display is not for you.

It would seem logical that Apple will be updating its current line of Cinema Displays which just delisted its 23" model and added the new LED Cinema Display. http://store.apple.com/us/browse/hom...lays?n=display


P.S. From Engadget:
Update: It's worth noting that while there are plenty of bright, 24-inch LCD monitors on the market, Apple's is relatively inexpensive (possibly the cheapest) for LED backlit monitors of this size. http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/18/a...-for-purchase/

* http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/c...3EAE93B7B4AEF6
http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=11094
** http://dcuser.net/others/eizo-led-ba...n-ev2411w.html

Am I missing something?

The Eizo is not available yet. The price is estimated to be around $800, without camera.

So, you want to compare a no-brand, with VGA/DVI input, monitor only (no USB), to a name-brand, with USB, DisplayPort, Mic, speakers, USB...

I would think that helps to show Apple's price is NOT out of line here.

I suggest you to do a little bit of research before calling Eizo a no-brand company.

You just dismissed your whole argument by calling Eizo a no-brand name .

DisplayPort is absolutely worthless to the rest of the world right now. You can't adapt a DisplayPort monitor to a computer with DVI... but you can go the other way. And the Eizo DOES have speakers, but as I pointed out earlier... who the hell is going to use these speakers. And finally... the usb on the ACD does not have enough ports to take over one of my ports... I need at LEAST 4 port hubs coming off of my TWO usb ports on my mbp.

Oh yah... and no matter what you say... matte trumps glossy any day of the week.

And finally, as I said earlier... who the hell cares about a cheap camera that the laptops already have?

Have you not been paying attention to our conversation about LED backlighting? Have you ever tried to color calibrate a glossy screen? Have you ever tried to work on a glossy screen for more than a few hours? Just because apple has LED does not automatically make it a better monitor. We still don't even know what LED method it uses but we can bet it's not the expensive version since the monitor is on the cheap side for that.

Look, if Apple's screen wasn't glossy and used the high performance LED method like melgross pointed out I'd be all about it. (Oh and the fact that I can't even use it with my existing hardware). But the glossy on that screen will never allow me to purchase it.

Apple can market everything they want, it doesn't make it right. Take for instance their marketing on glossy. They tell you to turn the brightness down and MOVE. Really? That is my option now? To move? Ok fine... I'll accept that on a laptop. But on a desktop screen? You can't really MOVE. They try to claim that glossy is better. Glossy has only been proven to be better among consumers that have no idea what they are talking about and doing. That see shiny things and go "ohhhhhhhhhhhh, I want that". But then they get home and are constantly dodging and moving the background light to see what they want on that part of the screen.

The top NEC monitors are extremely good LCDs and to discount them as not being high class shows your lack of knowledge on the subject. I'd take a good NEC over Apple's display anyways. Apple's display brings nothing to the table for me except going nutso over glossy and having a weaker warranty than the rest. Three USB Ports? . DisplayPort? . 2.1 SPEAKERS IN A LCD . iSight? Already have one and don't use but twice a year. .

I'm not saying someone won't find value in these features, but I think to most who already have a laptop and already have speakers (out of box speakers will blow that lcd out of the water for sound), ACD brings nothing to the table.

The difference is that the LaCie is an RGB LCD.
Which means it has a far wider displayable colour range than the glossy stuff Apple is peddling.

Since I don't have any numbers from the Apple display, here's a comparison between an Eizo LCD and the LaCie RGB LCD screen in numbers:

Eizo: The FlexScan SX2461W reproduces 95% of the Adobe RGB color space so it can display most colors in a photograph taken in Adobe RGB mode.

LaCie: The LaCie 724 Monitor’s ground–breaking RGB-LED backlight technology produces purer red, green and blue primaries, resulting in a larger range of vibrant colors previously unattainable by CCFL-based LCD monitors. It covers a remarkable 125% and 123% of the NTSC and Adobe RGB gamuts (CIE 1976)

From what I have gathered, the Eizo and ACD share the exact same panel. If this is the case, then the ACD and Eizo share the same color reproduction... throw in glossy with that and you get what? Have i mentioned I hate glossy? Glossy Sucks.

No argument here. My studio had the top of the line LaCie CRTs which by the way had glass screens and yes, we calibrated them twice a month.

I once had a couple of Radius PressView 21 SRs and a Barco Reference monitor. All glass front CRTs. If I recall, I could buy a CRT today what it cost to cable the Radius's. As one can see, I am out of the print business. But as far as I see, you want color, CRTs are still the standard.

Bottom line. The new Apple LED Cinema Monitors don't seem to be out-of-line re price. Certainly the most beautiful LCD monitors that I have viewed to date, since non of the others have reached store shelves to date. That is my personal opinion. Would like to see some side-by-side comparisons when the others come.

More important, hopefully a 27" or larger LED Cinema Display is coming soon. But that may take awhile. As Apple first announce, the LED backlits are the way to go. Problem is cost until volume is increased. Certainly nobody has announced any coming. TVs, yes, but not monitors. Just saw the new Sony 55" Bravia XBR LCD FP HDTV. Now that is a beauty. And at $7000 so is the price.

I still have a bad taste in my mouth from LaCie... and i'm sure you all will laugh at me when I tell you my story.

When CD Burners first came out LaCie produced a 2x external SCSI cd burner. I gladly bought it for $500. I was so excited to burn cds. It was a cassette loading burner... lol.

The thing didn't last one month before it died. The external case that LaCie built was putting dust / dust bunnines into the cd burner itself. So naturally I wanted it replaced. They replaced it the first time. A month later it died again. They told me I was out of luck!!! A 1 month warranty on a $500 cd burner. Boy was I heated.

Ever since I have held that grudge against LaCie. I know they make quality displays. I just can't get over how bad they screwed me over.... back in 1993 ... LOL

I wonder if the updated mini will have a mini display port to replace the DVI? A mini coupled to an ACD could be a pretty fair system.

Read the fine print:

From FlexScan EV2411W product brochure http://www.eizo-downloads.com/downlo...canEV2411W.pdf

Five Years4
1 Display with audio/video devices is not supported. 2 Bundled ScreenManager Pro for LCD is necessary to activate Auto Fine Contrast. 3 ScreenManager Pro for LCD is compatible with the Microsoft Windows Vista operating systems only. 4 The usage time is limited to 30,000 hours or less, and the warranty period of the LCD panel and backlight is limited to three years from the date of purchase.

Now here is truth in advertising:
With current LCD technology, a panel may contain a limited number of missing or flickering pixels.

Buyer beware.

A) we already went through this.
B) 3 years is still more than apple's pathetic 12 months.
C) Everyone has a dead pixel pixel policy. It's called LIE about something else when you return it.

If you've ever hooked up an external display to your macbook and tried to do a video conference, you'll understand why Apple includes an iSight on their new ACD and why macbook owners SHOULD care.

Without one, a video conference from a macbook via an external monitor is extremely awkward because you are facing the monitor but the macbook/camera is off to the side which makes it appear as if you are talking and looking at someone else in the room.

Also, your macbook can be closed while video conferencing.

IMHO, it is very thoughtful of Apple to include this and is not at all frivolous.

I have a 24" Samsung (worst banding and color reproduction ever i know... but was cheap) hooked up to my macbook pro. I am well aware of the "awkwardness" you speak of. But on the same token, they are side by side, it isn't that far off. The other person sees an angle shot instead of head on.

I'm not condemning apple for including an iSight. I think it's cool. But for this to be the only real selling point is weak imho. It isn't a deal breaker... especially if you have one currently. I still haven't figure out why anyone would want to close their laptop when they have an external display... why not have that extra display there to work off of? I guess if space is a factor

Has anybody noticed that if you have an apple laptop, that they don't offer a good mirroring solution for external displays?

What I want to do is plugin my monitor and desktop peripherals, and then work as if it were a desktop. Unfortunately, the laptop will only output at its largest resolution, not the resolution of the external monitor.

So if you do that, the external monitor is down res'ed and blurry. The only way to make this work is to get the super high res laptop (which is a problem), or to just use the external monitor as a second monitor of different shape and size. That's the config I have now, and it sux.

It's hard to believe that they have in mind a desktop monitor that only works well as a desktop extension. You can see in all the promo pictures, though, that this is what they are showing.

There is an unstable way to trick the laptop by sleeping it and then waking it with the lid closed. Not a production-worthy solution. So, in this case I've got to chalk one up to Microsoft because they handle this case perfectly.

Matt

The isight isn't the main selling point its a feature. The main selling point is a 24" monitor that easily connects and disconnects from a notebook. You can plug all peripherals (keyboard, mouse, printer) into the monitor without the need to connect and disconnect it from the notebook itself.

I cannot see a 13"/15" monitor next to a 24" monitor being the most convenient working environment.

If you mirror the desktop you get the same resolution on both screens hence the name "mirror". What you are looking for is extended desktop. Just change the mode in System Preferences/Displays.

Apple have already said that they will be transitioning to mini-DisplayPort across their entire product line. I think we'll see new iMacs and Minis with mini-DisplayPort announced at MWSF. We may see another ACD with mini-DisplayPort announced at the same time. Maybe a 20" 1920x1200?

That's been my work environment for 2 years now. I use my 15" for my console, terminal, adium, itunes, toast, debug window, ftp client, jobtimer, activity monitor, XLD conversion, all while I have photoshop, bbedit, xcode, interface builder, omnigraffle, pages, aperture, vmware, on the 24". Say what you will about the work environment, but it works great. I have my mbp on a griffin stand at the same level as my 24". I absolutely love it. I have two 4 port USB hubs coming off of my laptop that site behind it. A fw400 drive and my gigabit ethernet in it.

The isight is the main selling point of that monitor compared to other monitors with comparable panels. I don't see any reason to take an ACD over a nice matte panel besides the isight.

A minor issue for someone who rarely uses an iSight but if you do any amount of video conferencing, face to face is the only way. I've seen the side by side angle shot, it's not a good workaround; in fact, it comes off as rude.


That's the point, Apple's ACD is trying to get everything (clutter) OFF the table.


The integrated magsafe connector is a plus.

Can always run the conference on the laptop monitor . It's only 640x480... not like you won't miss any detail...



With 3 USB ports? 3 is too few for me... I need more than that. All 3 brings is keyboard, mouse, printer. What about digital camera? Ipod/iphone? External Hard Drive? Midi Device? USB Headset?



I guess so, I barely notice mine though. It's pretty cool, I don't notice any of these wires... they are all back behind where I can't see them.

With that being said, I am holding out for a new mac pro so I can run dual 24". I'm tired of trying to run vmware+ie, photoshop, firefox, safari, itunes off of my 2.33 mbp with 3gb ram. Just doesn't cut it for a quick turn around. Not to mention I've been beachballing to heck with my external USB itunes library (all started with 10.5.5 and iTunes 8).

I have a white Macbook, just a few months old. I plan to buy an external monitor soon, and was hoping for a new 20" version of the LED monitor, assuming they will soon follow the 24" just introduced. Now I'm reading that the 24" won't work with older computers because the Mini DisplayPort can't be easily adapted with a dongle. Is this true? If so, will all future LED monitors come with Mini DisplayPort (meaning I'm screwed)? Starting to think buying a current 20" model is my best bet. I'd love some insight on this.

Eizo is making one with the EXACT same panel but with matte instead of gloss.

http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/ev2411w/index.asp. Supposedly 100-200 dollars cheaper too. So if you don't have display port, you can grab one of those.

I don't see a link to this here yet, but Ars Technica posted their "first impressions" of the new Cinema Display. They'll probably have a full review of it sometime next week.

Nice, thanks for the link. I'm planning to pick one of these up to accompany my 15" MacBook Pro for when I need to sit down and do some work.

If and when there is an updated Mini? At the present pace of change, I say it will not get it before the MacPro, which might come in December...?