Apple's new MacBooks have built-in copy protection measures - Page 6

more rubbish, if Apple was serious about getting rid of DRM then iTunes plus would sell at the same price as normal and EVERY track would be DRM free.

ITMS is now one of the worlds biggest vendors of music surely they can stand up to this if they 'really' wanted to do this..?

You can tell when Jobs lies...his lips move.

You assertion that being the largest US vendor or largest online vendor of music means that Apple doesn't have to follow legal contracts is absurd. The content owners have the right by ownership and the contracts Apple signed to make sure that DRM is included.

PS: iTS DRM-free music is the same price as their DRMed music.

Your information is outdated by over a year. iTunes+ tracks cost the same now and has since October 2007. I don't know how you can be credible in this discussion if you use that obsolete of a point in the argument.

I haven't thought of the possibility of Apple bullying the labels into providing iT+, though maybe it's a bit of a detente, the labels want more money, Apple wants no DRM. If Apple wanted DRM, I don't see why they'd bother offering iT+ at all, or ever offered it without DRM.

You have to go back and read up on the battle between Apple and the record labels over this very issue. Apple wants no DRM the record labels want the ability to charge more. This battle has somewhat been repeated with video on iTunes.

I'm not sure why you think Apple is holding the superior position when they don't own the music or video. Without the music or video their is no iTunes store.

my bad on the price..fair enough.

when apple comes to RENEW the contract then they could do something about the DRM if they cared..but they won't 'cos deep down they don't..

Apple hold the superior position cos they have the customers and the market share. The industry CANNOT drop Apple or ITMS or they lose millions.

Apple offered IT+ on a very limited number of tracks to gain the moral high ground and to make people think that DRM free is what they want.

In truth iCon doesn't give a rats about it. But DRM free is where public opinion is and thats right where he's heading in a very well orchestrated PR move.

He becomes the 'good' guy.

all consumers should just buy CD's, rip them as they see fit and then give the discs to charity.

Yet as JeffDM pointed out, if Apple wants DRM so bad they why did they offer all EMI audio without DRM? On top of that, why has Steve Jobs made mention of DRMed audio as being a failure before and during iTS reign?

I don't see how you can say that Apple wants DRM on all their audio when they were able to get one studio to not offer it and there is plenty of evidence of Jobs clearly stating that DRMed music is a dead end. I think you've dranken too much of the "kool-aid" if you think Apple is so great that they can easy convince the music studios that DRM is bad when their executives have publicly stated (once in a rebuttal to Jobs' open letter) that DRM is necessary.

BTW, you haven't made a case as to how DRM-free audio on iTS would hurt iPod sales. Now people can have the convenience of iTS and the audio that Amazon is hosting, except in the slightly better AAC format. As the article stated, the whole purpose of the gruff studios going to Amazon with DRM-free audio was to unhinge Apple's control over them. DRM was the only card they had left to play!

I think it was Universal that negotiated their music contract to be able to pull songs from iTS at any time or only release songs at their discretion on iTS so that other, more profitable revenue streams would get tapped first.

It was NBC that pulled all their shows from iTS. They are now back, but lost a great deal of revenue over the months, including the Olympic iTS revenues which would have topped the charts for 2 weeks.

Both wanted variable pricing, You are right that they can't, but don't think that they won't try it. These examples are proof of the clashing between the content owners and Apple.

PS: I would like to hear a reason as to why you think Apple would need or want DRM on the music they sell when the iPod, iTunes, iTS integration already holds people to their money maker, the iPod.

Yes they have and still are attempting various measures to break iTunes hold. Withholding content, pulling content from iTunes, and giving special favor to other media services.

Its true Apple is able to maintain because they have the highest marketshare, but they do not hold all the power.

This media protection scheme is the reason Apple chose Intel. They've been planning this the whole time.

In case you don't know. iTunes Plus songs are also twice the bit rate as regular iTunes songs. It's not just DRM free. You're (were) actually paying more for a higher quality song. Not the fact that it's DRM free. As DRM free songs from iTunes sells for the same price as the songs with DRM.

Apple main concern is to provide a legal way to get contents for iPods owners. If the music studios won't allow iTunes to sell DRM free songs. Then Apple's choice is to either offer the song with DRM or not offer the song at all.

It's kind of hypocritical of you to accuse Jobs of always lying when you type out FUD on nearly every one of your post.

Hey, one thing that's unclear.
Is this copy protection on High Def versions of the movies, or on Standard Def too?

We knew Apple wanted to control their HD movies, since they only allowed them on their HDCP enabled AppleTV. Now that the laptops have HDCP, they may be allowing HD downloads to their MacBooks.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

On a related note - an option for HDCP is supposed to be that it downscales the HD content to 960x540. Apple's SD content is less than that anyway, so why enforce it? (Perhaps it was an error of enforcement?)

The standard is not new. Apple did not invent it. HDCP is built into BluRay, display port, HDMI and DVI. Apple is only complying with the standards so that they can offer HD contents. Your statelite and cable network had to comply with this standard before they could broadcast HD. BluRay player makers had to comply with this standard before they can sell a BluRay player.

1 is correct.
2 is incorrect

All existing and new displays, without the mini display port, will work with all present CPU's and mostly all CPU's in the near future. Apple has a mini-display port to DVI adapter for CPU's that has the mini-display port. I believe, but not positive, that this adapter contains the chip that enables HDCP. So all of your old and new contents with HDCP encoding should be playable. If it plays when you bought it. It should play in the future.

Their new mini-display port, LED, display will only work with a CPU with a mini-display port. You most likely wouldn't be buying one of these usless you already have a CPU that has the mini display port.


Now some of the HD movies you buy today may require you to have a mini display port (or HDMI) before you can output it to an external display. In which case you couldn't output it today anyways (at least not in HD), if you don't already have a CPU with a mini display port (or HDMI). You can only play it on your laptop or iMac screen. Or get an Apple TV. (I think Apple TV is HDCP compliant. It has HDMI. ). So any future CPU purchase with a mini display port would actually allow you to play this content on an external display. You wouldn't be losing it.

MacPros and PowerMacs are highly upgradable. I don't see why you couldn't buy a graphic card with a mini display port or HDMI when (if) they become available.

As for buying the Mini or iMac today. I wouldn't count out Apple TV as a way to of displaying contents on an Apple display with a mini display port.

I'm abit confused with how this works?

Does it only effect things playing through iTunes and if you put none iTunes bought films in there it wont display them?

What if i just download a quicktime trailer onto my desktop i cannot watch it?

How about my holiday video in qucktime, i wont play on quicktime or vlc or anything, just through iTunes?

The screen grab only don't work when you're using the OSX DVD player. Use a third party DVD player like VLC and the screen grab will work just fine.

I use VLC mainly because I have some region 2 movies that won't play on my region 1 DVD drive. I can only reset the region code on the DVD drive 5 times. The 5th time is for good. VLC doesn't care about region codes. There will always be a work around for DRM. And I have no doubt that by the time I need (or want) to own HD contents, the work around will be in place.

I too am disheartened (that's putting it mildly) at Apple's implementation and will seriously reconsider purchasing a new Mac in 2009. I believe (IMHO) they are only required to prevent full HD signal from going to the analog device and could under the agreement allow a lower level signal through.

But its all moot - just google HDFury.

There never was a horse that couldn't be rode, nor a rider that couldn't be throw'd. Think about it.

I understand your argument here, but I think the real question is would making a recording in this way be illegal?

In my opinion this is not necessarily an illegal way to make a copy of a movie. According to the law in Canada, if I buy a movie on iTunes I have the legal right to make a copy of that movie for my own personal use. Right now iTunes does not allow movies and TV shows to be copied to DVD, even though doing so is not necessarily illegal. Recording my legally purchased movies from iTunes to a DVD using a VGA cable would be totally legal, as long as its for my own use and I dont give or sell the copy to anyone else. But they are plugging that loop hole anyway, even though it violates our rights to legally copy our media and treats us all like criminals.

The huge sin of the movie and music industry has been convincing us that all copying of movie and music media is illegal and we should all be stopped!! This is not true. According to the law when one purchases a music CD or movie DVD or digital file, one has the right to make a copy for their own use. The music and movie industries have always tried to stop this. Years ago they tried to stop the selling of blank cassette tapes and VCR tapes, but that was unsuccessful, because its was never illegal to record your legally owned vinyl albums to cassette tape or a movie to VCR tape. Modern digital computer files are no different, we all have a right to make copies! This is a right the industry giants have continually tried to kill.

Now they (Apple and movie studios) want to tell us what projector or Display we can use to view their content!!! No way man!!!! This is total bull crap, and it constitutes a violation of our rights as owners (or licensed viewers) of recorded media to view or copy our legal property in the way in which we want. There are very limited ways of making copies of iTunes movie and tv files and its all together too difficult to transfer files around to other legal devices, and now we may run into problems with our displays being nonfunctional with the property we have legally purchased. What if I want to view my HD iTunes movie somewhere else other than where my computer or apple tv are located and I dont have an ipod that can transport the video file (can an ipod play HD in full resolution?) I should have the right to copy this HD movie to a DVD so I can view it elsewhere. Not all copying of movies and TV media is illegal, and until iTunes gets this right Ill stick to DVD. I buy lots of DVDs and I can copy them and use them on different devices and displays without any problems, and thats not illegal.

Why would I switch to digital download and face the heap of corporate red tape that goes with it!

Except it isn't a hack. It's DESIGNED that way. Which brings me back to my point that Apple's implementation is broken... no other HDCP compliant devices deny access over VGA. It's considered to be a "secure" connection despite having no encryption, likely do to the lack of VGA recording devices on the market.

AnyHDDVD is a hack though. But as far as I know, HD DVD and Blu-Ray do allow HD over analog, the worst that would happen is that the image is down scaled to 480p if ICT is enabled. This is the first I've heard that completely prevents playback.

Actually, my research shows the complete opposite. Apple was a huge supporter of DRM for many years and I believe that they still are. I am a huge Apple fan, but many of their products show up on shelves(or online) with some form of DRM implementation. They usually only remove the DRM after a large amount of complaining from their customers, and when they do they do it with great reluctance. Yes, I know Steve Jobs has spoke against DRM, but I don't believe for one second that Apple really wants to completely remove DRM from their products.

Acutally yes, I can shed some light on your question. They are trying to control something called the Analog Hole. This is DRM's biggest weakness and it simply refers to the idea that all digital media must be converted to an analog signal to be enjoyed by the end user. The problem is when something with DRM protection is converted to analog it loses all DRM protection and can be copied by simply recording the analog output. They hope to control this by stopping the use of hardware recorders.
Hope that helped!

I agree!

Maye you wanted this, but I want blu-ray without DRM thank you!

\

CD's are a digital format...

Good luck Jimmy, DRM has been around for more than 25 years and we still get stuck with it.

You're right it's not legal, but whats the point of building a fast car that can't go fast. Or buying a movie that you can't watch whenever you want. I'm sorry but once anything goes digital it cannot be protected by any company, agency, or government. If they do start putting speed regulating chips in cars, you can bet that there will be someone who learns to hack them and I for one will use that hack. The government should be on the public's side with this, it will most likely help the end users and the producers in the in.

The problem with this is that most of the "general populous" is still oblivious to this, doesn't know how to get around DRM, or is to lazy to care about it. The number of us who are against DRM and are willing to do something like this isn't large enough yet.

Someday we will see an end to DRM and that is the day when I will start buying downloadable content. Until then I will continue purchasing DVD's (from people I think deserve support) and then making copies for myself or downloading others via torrents to avoid DRM. As for blu-ray...meh there will be a player that will play non-HDCP content trust me.

Nazi BS? Gonna go that far eh?\

Actually if enough people get upset and actually do something, say not buy DRM content/hardware then we well see a change...really think about it....don't just lay down and roll over if you believe something is wrong then do something to stop it.

Macrovision is a form of DIGITAL Rights Management. You cannot(at least not to my knowledge) to this date manage analog media. It can only be enforced on content in the Digital form. Once it is converted to analog the digital controller is lost.
Hope that helped...if I am wrong on this feel free to correct me!

They are stuck in the 80's

Says you!

The problem with the flickering has to do with the software written to comply with HDCP its glitchy still. Hopefully we will see that fixed in the near future!

Ummm....if you don't want to upgrade then don't upgrade. It's not like anybody is forcing you to upgrade your mac to the new version. Just a thought.

If someone hasn't already figured it out already they will.

It did, thanks a lot.

I agree that something is broken, because the "DVD-quality" SD videos you rent from iTS should not have HDCP since the downgrade would still be the same resolution, and you can't currently rent or buy HD content from the iTS, so what content wouldn't play. Has this data been disclosed anywhere?

PS: When Apple finally does offer HD content from iTS with HDCP will iTunes check your system to see if the HD content will be able to be played in HD. Warning you if the rental/purchase will not play in HD if proper HDCP HW is not attached. Maybe you have HDCP 1.0 and the content requires v1.3. I think it's important that Apple make iTunes check your system or at least warn you if you are on a PC (assuming iTunes can't check for HDCP compliance on Windows).



That was stated nicely.

A poster on another forum said that the MacBooks could download HD content from the iTS, since they have HDCP.
No-one else has confirmed or denied this that I've seen.

We need someone with a new MacBook to rent a HD movie. Anyone out there? (You don't have to watch it straight away, you've got a month... but it'd be good to know if you can download it!)

Give me a minute and I'll confirm/deny it. I never thought to look.