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General thoughts thread on Jaguar

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
Hi all. I was just wondering what most of you thought of Jaguar, now that it's out and y'all have had a chance to play. The one thing I'm noticing here on these boards is the lack of complaints due to speed in 10.2. Anybody care to comment on their experiences with the new OS?
post #2 of 33
It still burns my toast in my bluetooth-enabled toaster because... it's... too slow.



Yes, most of the speed issues have been resolved. Finder operations are much more efficient and threaded a little better. Quartz Extreme makes the whole interface smooth like butter.

Yes sir, I like it!
post #3 of 33
Thread Starter 
Supposedly, an update is coming out within the next two weeks that will resolve most of the major bugs, many of the minor ones, AND improve Quartz Extreme performance. Very cool.

My buddy is ecstatic with 10.2, also. He bought a dual 500 a few years back on my recommendation. I told him that the dual 500 will actually seem like it's getting faster over time: at first it was fast because 500 WAS the fastest they had; then when 10 came out, the OS utilized both processors so things were smoother for him; 10.1 made it even faster; and now, with 10.2, my friend has called me up almost every day (or else he just uses iChat, heh) to tell me how awesome his machine is. Ahhhh. Gotta love the enthusiasm of the less jaded.
post #4 of 33
Speaking as a lazy scumbag who let everyone else do the beta-testing on 10.0 through 10.1, living happily in my carefully-optimised OS 9 until last Friday, I have to say I'm blown away.

Jaguar has yet to crash (except when I was screwing about in the Terminal), everything just works!

I've spent some quality time downloading some nice shareware (and some grotty old rubbish that's been consigned to the Trash now), got my Xounds running happily (missed the clicks and ticks), imported all my email to Mail, my contacts to Address Book and I've now started the process of deleting those OS 9 apps I'm not going to use...

I've yet to boot back into OS 9, partially due to bloodymindedness, but mainly due to not needing to. How can I not be impressed?

I'm really enjoying my "new" Mac.

[ 08-28-2002: Message edited by: Overhope ]</p>
Whatever it is, it ain't rocket science
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Whatever it is, it ain't rocket science
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post #5 of 33
Jag has some major bugs as far as I can tell. I did an upgrade install and have had some problems, but I chalked it up to an upgrade instead of a new install. I've had applications crash to the point the going in to the terminal and shutting down into single user mode and then rebooting once didn't even help. Wow. Again, I figured that it was just a bum install.

Until I visited my "local" Apple Store and saw that many demo machine were troubled as well. It was kind of embarassing actually, having to reboot several of their machines so customers could just launch an application.

I'm not panicked because I assume Apple will get a bug fix out soon. It is keeping me from updating some machines of friends that might not be savvy enough to work their way through some of the problems.
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"Hearing a corrupt CEO like Cheney denigrate Edwards for being a trial lawyer is like hearing a child molester complain how Larry Flint is a pervert." -johnq
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post #6 of 33
Noticably faster on my PB 500 than my Jan dual gig. A few bugs but all OS's have bugs.

Wonder how many lines of code there are in Jaguar?
I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
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I heard that geeks are a dime a dozen, I just want to find out who's been passin' out the dimes
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post #7 of 33
Significantly less than XP I wager (any edition).
Aldo is watching....
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Aldo is watching....
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post #8 of 33
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Moogs:
<strong>Significantly less than XP I wager (any edition).</strong><hr></blockquote>

lol Yea. That was hard. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
post #9 of 33
Some major gripes about Jaguar...

1) It seems to be a major pain in the ass to get networked drives to connect upon startup. Doesn't anybody at Apple ever use Windows to see what the competition is doing? I have yet to figure out how to get this basic operation to happen automatically for me.

2) Address Book - geez, what a disappointment. Here I was thinking that the address book would actually use LDAP. In other words, I thought that maybe the OS would be running an LDAP server that the address book would connect to. This would make it so damn easy to transfer all the contacts to my main server.

3) Sherlock: no google, and no customization? Thanks for nothing.

4) Speed. This isn't a knock against Jaguar, but I don't see much of an improvement. Then again, I didn't think the speed on 10.1.5 was all that bad.

5) CiscoVPN doesn't work because kmodload and kmodstat weren't installed. It seems very bizarre that Jaguar was released without a way to load modules. (In fairness, perhaps they have been moved to some other directory)

The only reason I upgraded was because of the $50 Amazon rebate. It appears, however, that it may have been wiser to wait until next year for 10.3.
post #10 of 33
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Brian Paulsen:
<strong>It seems to be a major pain in the ass to get networked drives to connect upon startup. Doesn't anybody at Apple ever use Windows to see what the competition is doing? I have yet to figure out how to get this basic operation to happen automatically for me.
</strong><hr></blockquote>


I posted in another thread, but I thought I should repeat here: There IS a way to automatically access your network drives without a password prompt. You can do this by going into Keychain Access under Application/Utilities. Select the desired server you wish to access and, in the Access Control tab, click "Always allow access to this item." It's gonna ask you for your password to make changes to the keychain, and then you'll be able to access it without a password dialogue forever. To make it come up at login, just drag the mounted network volume to the Login Items panel in System Preferences, and the next time you log in, it will be mounted on your desktop.

[ 08-29-2002: Message edited by: Gambit ]</p>
post #11 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by Gambit:
<strong>


I posted in another thread, but I thought I should repeat here: There IS a way to automatically access your network drives without a password prompt. You can do this by going into Keychain Access under Application/Utilities. Select the desired server you wish to access and, in the Access Control tab, click "Always allow access to this item." It's gonna ask you for your password to make changes to the keychain, and then you'll be able to access it without a password dialogue forever. To make it come up at login, just drag the mounted network volume to the Login Items panel in System Preferences, and the next time you log in, it will be mounted on your desktop.

[ 08-29-2002: Message edited by: Gambit ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Aha, that last piece really helped!

You've gotta admit, though, that Apple is making this about as difficult as they can.

I have to open up how many different applications for something that could have easily been handled by one simple checkbox when I connect to the server?
post #12 of 33
[ 08-29-2002: Message edited by: Brian Paulsen ]</p>
post #13 of 33
Ok, there are the usual negative posts. My experience with Jaguar has been completely positive.

Big speed improvement!

It fixed a problem with shutting down that I've had since a crash back in April. Now I don't have to wipe my drive!

Games are faster.

Everything seems much more fluid and not many apps got broken in the process.

Oh, and I like the subtle changes they have made to Aqua.

All in all it seems like the OS I've wanted out of OS X.

By the way I did the easy, upgrade install.

G4 450, 640 mgs of ram. Radeon AGP retail.

[ 08-29-2002: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #14 of 33
Well, I've always been a big OS X fan, but Jag is even better than I thought it would be. The little things have really added up for me. I used to use column view because it was the easiest/fastest way to get around my computer, but now I've switched to icon view, showing item information, 24x24 icons and the label on the right (though I wish I could put them on the left. I'm left handed). This combined with SLF makes getting around much easier. And it looks cool too. Things just pop out at you.

The finder has its quirks, like FTP and crashing on occasion, but overall it's the best OS I've used, hands down. I can't wait until they fix FTP in the finder. Then I'll be ecstatic.
post #15 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by Gambit:
<strong>
To make it come up at login, just drag the mounted network volume to the Login Items panel in System Preferences, and the next time you log in, it will be mounted on your desktop.

[ 08-29-2002: Message edited by: Gambit ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hmm, that didn't work. Any other suggestions?
post #16 of 33
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Brian Paulsen:
<strong>Hmm, that didn't work. Any other suggestions?</strong><hr></blockquote>

What do you mean it didn't work? How can it not work? What kind of volume are you trying to mount? Give me a bit more detail, there's no reason login items, in concert with Keychain, shouldn't automatically mount your network shares. I do it all the time.
post #17 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by Gambit:
<strong>

What do you mean it didn't work? How can it not work? What kind of volume are you trying to mount? Give me a bit more detail, there's no reason login items, in concert with Keychain, shouldn't automatically mount your network shares. I do it all the time.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's an smb mount. Here's what I get:

The operation could not be completed because no application was found to open the Internet location file "mygroup;brian@thor-brian"

If I go to "Connect to Server..." and click on that same location from my favorite servers, I don't get an authentication notice anymore, so it appears that the Keychain part is working.

I will note that when I set up my server to do AFP mounts, it seems to work better. However, when I log in, I still get a dialog box prompting me for a username and password, but at least the Keychain is filling in the password for me.
post #18 of 33
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Brian Paulsen:
<strong>

It's an smb mount. Here's what I get:

The operation could not be completed because no application was found to open the Internet location file "mygroup;brian@thor-brian"

If I go to "Connect to Server..." and click on that same location from my favorite servers, I don't get an authentication notice anymore, so it appears that the Keychain part is working.

I will note that when I set up my server to do AFP mounts, it seems to work better. However, when I log in, I still get a dialog box prompting me for a username and password, but at least the Keychain is filling in the password for me.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hmmm.... that's interesting, about mounting SMB volumes at start up. I'll look into it further for you when I'm in the office Wednesday. (Sorry it's gonna take that long, but I'm really baffled by that.)

But you said it works with AFP mounts, huh? But it still prompts you to press OK? That's because it's set not set to Always allow access under Access Control tab in Keychains. You have to change this setting on each individual item for it to not even prompt you. Hope that helps.
post #19 of 33
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Brian Paulsen:
<strong> Address Book - geez, what a disappointment. Here I was thinking that the address book would actually use LDAP. In other words, I thought that maybe the OS would be running an LDAP server that the address book would connect to. This would make it so damn easy to transfer all the contacts to my main server.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Can't help you there, mate, sorry. Although, Adress Book DOES support drag and drop exporting and importing, as well as exporting the information to vCards if you select more than one.


[quote]<strong> Sherlock: no google, and no customization? Thanks for nothing.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Again, can't help you there. That's an issue with you, the Sherlock development team, and maybe somebody from the co that created Watson.


[quote]<strong> Speed. This isn't a knock against Jaguar, but I don't see much of an improvement. Then again, I didn't think the speed on 10.1.5 was all that bad.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Jaguar is MUCH faster if you have 768 megs or more of RAM. RAM is cheap, so don't bitch! (too loud.) (Although I have NO right to complain about OS speed: I have a 933 G4 with a GeForce 4Ti and 1024 megs of RAM, speed has never really been an issue so I can't really relate.)


[quote]<strong> CiscoVPN doesn't work because kmodload and kmodstat weren't installed. It seems very bizarre that Jaguar was released without a way to load modules. (In fairness, perhaps they have been moved to some other directory)</strong><hr></blockquote>

Again, sorry, can't help you there. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

10.2 was an excellent upgrade, in my opinion, and judging from the lack of complaints here in the AI forums, I would say that most agree. Sorry you don't think the little tweaks in Jag plus all the huge features weren't worth it. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
post #20 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by Gambit:
<strong>

Hmmm.... that's interesting, about mounting SMB volumes at start up. I'll look into it further for you when I'm in the office Wednesday. (Sorry it's gonna take that long, but I'm really baffled by that.)

But you said it works with AFP mounts, huh? But it still prompts you to press OK? That's because it's set not set to Always allow access under Access Control tab in Keychains. You have to change this setting on each individual item for it to not even prompt you. Hope that helps.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not a problem, I can certainly wait until Wednesday.

I double-checked and I have the "Always allow access" set for the server on the AFP stuff and I still get the login prompt. As I said, though, the password is filled in at least.
post #21 of 33
Loaded Jag onto my mom's 350 iMac. It only has 160Mb Ram and it runs extremely well. All she had was 9.2 before and we loaded it directly on the same partition.

She loves Jag. The icons are very simple for her to understand. She loves the magnification of the dock. Mail is much easier for her to understand than Entourage. Her favorite thing is iPhoto and the ease of setting up screen saver slide shows with all of her grandchildren. After only a couple of days use she has said that this is the easiest computer she has ever used.

I love it because now when she asks a question over the phone, I can step her through it by running Jag myself. I have been using OS X so long that I kind of get confused now in 9.

And, oh yeah, I like Jag a lot as well.
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post #22 of 33
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Brian Paulsen:
<strong>I double-checked and I have the "Always allow access" set for the server on the AFP stuff and I still get the login prompt. As I said, though, the password is filled in at least.</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
post #23 of 33
re: Sherlock 3 comments by Paul:

I thought that Sherlock 3 still used a plug-in architecture and info for third parties to create them? I could be wrong, I just assumed as much. Anyway, considering that Apple uses Google technology to search its own site, I imagine this is a licensing issue with Google. They might really want people to use their web page. As convenient as it might be in Sherlock 3, it's hard to make it much simpler than what's in our browsers now.

Oh, and wouldn't an LDAP server be a bit of overkill for the address book?

Anyway, I also got my order from Amazon (with discount ), and while it apparently was delivered to my work today, apparently it hasn't been routed to me yet. If the USPS could oly update their tracking like FedEx, I could have left work with it! Oh well, combine new toy with a rainy Labor Day, and suddenly I have weekend plans.

[ 08-29-2002: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]</p>
post #24 of 33
My mother, too, were able to adapt very easily to MacOS X (not jaguar, only 10.1.4). After very few days, on her new eMac, she was navigating like a fish in water (sorry mom ! You're not a fish !).

Don't forget folks that Jaguar is new. Only at 10.2.0. I have read elsewhere that 10.2.1 is coming soon with a lots of noticeable tweaks and improvements, even on speed ! Apparently, QE will be faster yet ! Look there :

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post #25 of 33
I did an upgrade install too and it has been "troubled" as well. I'm working around it until I have the time to fix it (ie backup, format, and clean install [I remember making fun of PC users for having to do that all the time])
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post #26 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by BobtheTomato:
<strong>I did an upgrade install too and it has been "troubled" as well. I'm working around it until I have the time to fix it (ie backup, format, and clean install [I remember making fun of PC users for having to do that all the time])</strong><hr></blockquote>

For the 1000th time, you DON'T have to do a clean install do get your system working right. Just do an archive and install. It does the SAME thing without making you backup all your stuff. If things are still flaky it's because of a corrupt preference and you can just create a new user and all will be good. Doesn't anyone read replies to threads anymore?

ps - I was not directing my comments at you in particular, just at the general feeling I get people have quit reading replies.
post #27 of 33
I think it comes with way too many CD's. Like 10? They look so floppy-disk like in number that they just scream D V D. Too bad Apple still ships some configurations without a dvd drive.
post #28 of 33
Huh? 10 CDs? What are you talking about, all I have is two install CDs and a CD for Developer Tools.
What the problem is?
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post #29 of 33
Unless he means that the new Mac hardware comes with a bunch of Apple CDs... OSX installers, hardware check, software, etc.?
post #30 of 33
Yes, you have two install CD's and one dev tools CD. Don't you see that you metioned three specific CD's while I commented on the total number of general CD's? The poster after you had it right.
post #31 of 33
[quote]Originally posted by ShawnPatrickJoyce:
<strong>Yes, you have two install CD's and one dev tools CD. Don't you see that you metioned three specific CD's while I commented on the total number of general CD's? The poster after you had it right.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think the poster said 3 CDs because Jaguar comes with only 3 CDs, and this thread is about Jaguar, not about Macs in general.

Amorya
post #32 of 33
Jaguar has been a pretty mixed bag for me. Bootup is just as slow as 10.1 and login is interminable, even after running the Permissions Repair utility and fsck. Mail doesn't work (that is, it launches but won't display a mailbox window), TextEdit no longer accepts any mouse input, OmniWeb gives me the Rainbow Wheel of Despair every time I launch it, and iChat should never have shipped in its current raw state. Also I don't like not being able to paste custom icons where I want to; how the hell did this get broken?

On the plus side, performance does seem to be better: Thoth, for example, now runs as smoothly as it ever did in OS 9, and web browsing feels a little better too. The new Finder is really sweet, and I love all the new configuration options in System Preferences. Application launches seem to take about the same time.

On the whole I am disappointed with my Jaguar experience so far, even though there is a lot to like. My disappointment doesn't stem from unrealistic expectations (well, to my mind at least); I wasn't expecting miracles. I was, however, expecting everything to remain minimally functional. Some will doubtless say it's my own fault for simply upgrading and not Archiving and Installing (though I didn't see that option during the process), but that argument is not compelling. Like BobtheTomato says, that's something Windows users are used to dealing with; the Mac has traditionally been above that kind of thing.

Well, looks like it's off to trash some preference files ...
post #33 of 33
"Well, looks like it's off to trash some preference files ..."

Whatchyoutalkinboutwillis!!?? That is like, so OS 9!
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