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Is RIM's New Storm Phone Absolute Garbage?

post #1 of 26
11/20/08 at 3:24pm
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Discuss.
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post #2 of 26
11/21/08 at 9:07am
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I think it is.
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post #3 of 26
11/21/08 at 9:42am
The storm will fade into the background, just like G1.
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post #4 of 26
11/21/08 at 1:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

The storm will fade into the background, just like G1.

And Windows Mobile.
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post #5 of 26
11/22/08 at 9:36am
It'll be a good competitor. Email, in terms of push, features, integration with business, will be better on it. And RIM has a quite dominant position in a very resistant to change, and anti-Apple, corporate market. It will sell enough to be RIM's 4th kind of Blackberry (consumer/pro candy bar, the SureType candy bar, flip-phone and touchscreen).

Whether they really want to put the resources into it so that the software is truly entirely touch designed is another story.
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post #6 of 26
11/23/08 at 10:19am
I've so far read the screen's mechanical action is heavenly (Wired proffered that it is far more satisfying than iPhone - and with a shorter learning curve), but that the Verizon software negates all gains.
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post #7 of 26
11/23/08 at 2:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by probably View Post

I've so far read the screen's mechanical action is heavenly (Wired proffered that it is far more satisfying than iPhone - and with a shorter learning curve), but that the Verizon software negates all gains.

Uhh, I didn't get that impression from many of the reviews (Engadget, BGR, Time, PCWorld, etc), but a lot of that is due to the OS being shipped at an early beta stage. The conclusion in Wired that the buggy software is somehow Verizon's fault is stretching it quite far. These are OS issues on the devices. It's equally the fault of RIM for being late/not ready and Verizon trying to maintain schedule when the device isn't ready. RIM's branding is the one that's really taking a hit here, too. So, double plus ungood for them in letting Verizon bully them around. This assumes RIM wasn't themselves trying to push the device out, and I bet they in fact were doing precisely that.

There are some inherent issues with the SurePress design. It's great for thumb presses on big buttons such as the phone dialer or SureType, but with pointer finger presses, it gets cumbersome. For the QWERTY keyboard and two thumbs, I haven't seen anyone say it's too good yet, and some people say it slows them down in comparison to thumb-boards.
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post #8 of 26
11/23/08 at 6:20pm
http://admiralh.wordpress.com/2008/1...iphone-killer/

this blogger agrees
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post #9 of 26
11/26/08 at 5:06am
Oh no its not The Storm is essentially a touch-based, large-screen version of the well-polished BlackBerry Bold. When you strike a key or icon on the Storm's screen, you feel a physical sensation, as if you were pressing down on a real key or button. The entire glass display is one large button but it doesn't, magically turn the Storm's touch interface and virtual keyboard into their physical counterparts. The new screen also replaces the side-mounted scroll wheel or track ball. When held vertically, the Storm will only display a "mashed-up keyboard -- not a full keyboard -- that has multiple letters on each key. No Wi-Fi capability. While the Storm's keyboard is 7% smaller than the iPhones, it offers about 13% higher resolution. "Photos and videos look beautiful on it. Better battery life for phone calls than either the iPhone or the Google G1. Battery is also removable. Storm comes with 9GB of memory and is expandable via flash cards. Much better camera than the iPhone. 3.2 megapixels compared to 2 megapixels and it does video too. Storm also has copy-and-paste, MMS, voice dialing and tethering capabilities. Better speaker and noise-canceling microphone than the iPhone. It's 5% thicker and 17% heavier than the iPhone.
Nokia is providing Cheap Mobile Phones for low range customers.
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Nokia is providing Cheap Mobile Phones for low range customers.
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post #10 of 26
11/26/08 at 12:16pm
David Pogue just hates the thing.

From this review, it sounds like RIM and Verizon may have erred in rushing out a half finished product. Sure, things may improve with subsequent software updates, but if you're looking to make a big splash with an "iPhone killer" and then get a lot of negative press and returns right out of the gate, it's hard to win back hearts and minds later on.

I still maintain that, going forward, manufacturers like RIM are going to be at more and more of a disadvantage to Apple because they don't have anything like OS X as a shared code base for their handsets. As hardware gets more powerful Apple can simply leverage more and more of the full OS X experience, within the Cocoa Touch frameworks they've developed. The RIMs of the world are obliged to shim out existing software that was written for far more constrained hardware, or set about writing entirely new operating systems.

Writing an OS for a "phone" that makes the best possible use of anemic processors, constrained power consumption, and feeble memory resources is a very different order of business from porting a desktop OS to a handheld device, while developing UI conventions to make the most of limited screen space.

Apple has more OS than the hardware can handle, but hardware only ever gets more capable. RIM has less OS than the modern smart phone (as defined by Apple) needs, and has to keep bolting on more and more parts.

Which would you rather be?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #11 of 26
11/26/08 at 1:24pm
That review is absolutely hilarious!

He cites the general UI as an exercise in frustration. He's not impressed with the pressure sensitive touch screen either, which he implies is almost unusable for typing.

I've used a couple of other touch screen based mobiles like the N95 and an LG Renoir. They all have pressure sensitive screens and they are a pain in the ass to use compared to the iPhone. They're sluggish and inaccurate. You never really know if a press has registered or not unless you really apply some force. When they don't respond because the OS is slow I just try again by pressing harder, so I never get a decent judgement of how much force to use.
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post #12 of 26
11/26/08 at 2:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yama View Post

That review is absolutely hilarious!

He cites the general UI as an exercise in frustration. He's not impressed with the pressure sensitive touch screen either, which he implies is almost unusable for typing.

I've used a couple of other touch screen based mobiles like the N95 and an LG Renoir. They all have pressure sensitive screens and they are a pain in the ass to use compared to the iPhone. They're sluggish and inaccurate. You never really know if a press has registered or not unless you really apply some force. When they don't respond because the OS is slow I just try again by pressing harder, so I never get a decent judgement of how much force to use.

Exactly. Look, if the input device doesn't work well the entire phone is garbage.

My impression is that the iPhone uses a higher resolution touch panel. The resolution is both in x-y direction and pressure. Also it has a smart software to calculate the most likely intention of the user based on the whole pressure landscape.

I would bet that all the other phones just uses a threshold on/off touch sensor and a low resolution panel. It is all because of the beancounters wanting to sell a product that matches the iphone in "features", for the highest markup. In other words, the stuff these "iphone competitors" with a bunch of BS features that supposedly do the same but they are all crap.

It is like comparing a BMW to a Hyundai, they both have 4 wheels and an engine, but...
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post #13 of 26
12/9/08 at 2:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Exactly. Look, if the input device doesn't work well the entire phone is garbage.

My impression is that the iPhone uses a higher resolution touch panel. The resolution is both in x-y direction and pressure. Also it has a smart software to calculate the most likely intention of the user based on the whole pressure landscape.

I would bet that all the other phones just uses a threshold on/off touch sensor and a low resolution panel. It is all because of the beancounters wanting to sell a product that matches the iphone in "features", for the highest markup. In other words, the stuff these "iphone competitors" with a bunch of BS features that supposedly do the same but they are all crap.

It is like comparing a BMW to a Hyundai, they both have 4 wheels and an engine, but...

Exactly!
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post #14 of 26
12/11/08 at 2:36am
The dumbest, dumbest f*king thing, is that one thing that people like is the Crackberry keyboard. These users love it, and are commonly found in this "Blackberry Typing Prayer-Like position".

So, remove most of that and make it touchscreen... Sounds like a desperate ploy by RIM.
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post #15 of 26
12/11/08 at 2:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

David Pogue just hates the thing.

From this review, it sounds like RIM and Verizon may have erred in rushing out a half finished product. Sure, things may improve with subsequent software updates, but if you're looking to make a big splash with an "iPhone killer" and then get a lot of negative press and returns right out of the gate, it's hard to win back hearts and minds later on.

I still maintain that, going forward, manufacturers like RIM are going to be at more and more of a disadvantage to Apple because they don't have anything like OS X as a shared code base for their handsets. As hardware gets more powerful Apple can simply leverage more and more of the full OS X experience, within the Cocoa Touch frameworks they've developed. The RIMs of the world are obliged to shim out existing software that was written for far more constrained hardware, or set about writing entirely new operating systems.

Writing an OS for a "phone" that makes the best possible use of anemic processors, constrained power consumption, and feeble memory resources is a very different order of business from porting a desktop OS to a handheld device, while developing UI conventions to make the most of limited screen space.

Apple has more OS than the hardware can handle, but hardware only ever gets more capable. RIM has less OS than the modern smart phone (as defined by Apple) needs, and has to keep bolting on more and more parts.

Which would you rather be?

apple haven't defined the modern smartphone and probably never will...
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post #16 of 26
12/11/08 at 5:34pm
I wouldn't know. I buy too many iPhones.

DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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post #17 of 26
12/11/08 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

apple haven't defined the modern smartphone and probably never will...

Nope. They've defined the modern, dead simple to use, always connected, pocketable computer.

In a few years, when Apple is selling a range of devices running a full version of OS X, devices that have enough graphics horsepower to unleash the potential of the touch UI that they've only begun to exploit, many of which will include the trivially simple "phone app", we'll see how the Nokias of the world are doing bolting ever more "functionality" onto their phone OSes.

"Cell phones" are a dead end, and their enthusiasts are blind to what's happening.

I've said this before, but the current situation is analogous to a world where "personal computing" started out wide-spread adoption of dedicated email stations. In such a world, email buffs would argue endlessly about who had the most refined spell checker or cleverest implementation of POP accounts or even such all important features as sophisticated sorting or smart folders.

Then someone comes along with a general purpose computer, and the email fans laugh because they have machines that can do more sophisticated email things. "Why", they say, "this so called 'computer' is a mediocre email machine, at best!" They keep laughing as the email machine manufacturers strike back with dedicated email machines that have more features.

And then computers happen.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #18 of 26
12/12/08 at 8:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Nope. They've defined the modern, dead simple to use, always connected, pocketable computer.

In a few years, when Apple is selling a range of devices running a full version of OS X, devices that have enough graphics horsepower to unleash the potential of the touch UI that they've only begun to exploit, many of which will include the trivially simple "phone app", we'll see how the Nokias of the world are doing bolting ever more "functionality" onto their phone OSes.

"Cell phones" are a dead end, and their enthusiasts are blind to what's happening.

I've said this before, but the current situation is analogous to a world where "personal computing" started out wide-spread adoption of dedicated email stations. In such a world, email buffs would argue endlessly about who had the most refined spell checker or cleverest implementation of POP accounts or even such all important features as sophisticated sorting or smart folders.

Then someone comes along with a general purpose computer, and the email fans laugh because they have machines that can do more sophisticated email things. "Why", they say, "this so called 'computer' is a mediocre email machine, at best!" They keep laughing as the email machine manufacturers strike back with dedicated email machines that have more features.

And then computers happen.

Look,

In the history of the word there has been two major platforms:

Windows
and
Mac

Now there is a third:
iPhone

It is that simple. For years the tech gurus of MIT and Stanford have been talking about "ubiquitous computing". Computer that are portable and some you don't even see: some you wear, some in your eyeglasses, others in the walls of your home, etc. Apple is the first to come up with one, the iPhone.
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post #19 of 26
12/12/08 at 1:38pm
As regards the opening question, no it is not absolute garbage.

RIM has put a lot of thought into designing it, they seem to have taken into account features that have been left out of the iPhone.

Apple should be taking a good look at how well it sells and take this into consideration when deciding what functionality they need to improve in future iterations of the iPhone.

Edit:-

P.S. It doesn't run WinMo so can't possibly be "absolute" in terms of garbage!

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #20 of 26
12/12/08 at 2:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

As regards the opening question, no it is not absolute garbage.

RIM has put a lot of thought into designing it, they seem to have taken into account features that have been left out of the iPhone.

Apple should be taking a good look at how well it sells and take this into consideration when deciding what functionality they need to improve in future iterations of the iPhone.

Edit:-

P.S. It doesn't run WinMo so can't possibly be "absolute" in terms of garbage!

So maybe it is a little better than absolute garbage? Like almost complete excrement?
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post #21 of 26
12/12/08 at 6:21pm
I actually like the phone, but hate the SW - it's just so slow. I'm pretty sure RIM has figured out how to do copy and paste though.

As far as other touch phones go, I have an LG Dare, and I like it just fine, even though the touch UI isn't as nice as my iPod Touch, but I don't care for the iPhone as a phone, and wanted to get away from AT&T
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post #22 of 26
12/13/08 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Look,

In the history of the word there has been two major platforms:

Windows
and
Mac

Now there is a third:
iPhone

It is that simple. For years the tech gurus of MIT and Stanford have been talking about "ubiquitous computing". Computer that are portable and some you don't even see: some you wear, some in your eyeglasses, others in the walls of your home, etc. Apple is the first to come up with one, the iPhone.

With all due respect, I think you're all attributing way too much to the iPhone!

While I love my iPhone and won't be parted from it, Apple didn't invent a new paradigm here. They simply did what everyone else was doing, but did it better (i.e. polished the hell out of the experience). Windows Mobile and Symbian were already platforms for ubiquitous computing. I've been using such devices back since the mid 90s. The iPhone doesn't have more processing power than an equivalent Nokia. It doesn't have a wider choice of software. It doesn't have more features. It doesn't do anything new. It does the same things and implements them really well.

If the iPhone platform is to take over, it isn't because it is a revolutionary new idea. It's as unoriginal idea as Windows was after MacOS. It'll take over just because it is better and easier to use!

Amorya
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post #23 of 26
12/13/08 at 11:20am
the fact that the whole screen moves is such a point of failure.

get a grain of sand under that thing or just some moisture..bye bye
~skp
Currently using iPhone 3Gs
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~skp
Currently using iPhone 3Gs
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post #24 of 26
12/13/08 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Look,

In the history of the word there has been two major platforms:

Windows
and
Mac

Now there is a third:
iPhone

AMIGA 4eva, ok!

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #25 of 26
12/17/08 at 11:42pm
a friend of mine bought a Blackberry Storm and it was one of the crappiest phone i've ever seen. it seemed like a product that was created without any thought or passion.
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post #26 of 26
12/18/08 at 8:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sared View Post

a friend of mine bought a Blackberry Storm and it was one of the crappiest phone i've ever seen. it seemed like a product that was created without any thought or passion.

It was.
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