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Apple pushing Mini DisplayPort through no-fee licenses - Page 3

post #81 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post

It's high time Apple does something similar with the MagSafe adapters.

Would they extort ridiculously high prices and sell MagSafe accessories themselves, there would be a point, from a share holder perspective, to Apple's actions.
But all Apple's MagSafe policy leads to is that important products are not available or only available as hacks.

(Never mind that Apple should never have gotten a patent on the MagSafe adapter, if the patent system would work properly, given that magnetic plugs are common place for tea kettles and rice cookers!)

We still don't have a proper car power adapter or a universal AC/Car/Air adapter like I have for my PowerBook. Can't use it, because there's no power tip available. (The company has one ready, but can't ship it for licensing reasons!)

All Apple does is cause its customers grief with these policies.

Are you serious about this? What does this have to do with anything here?

First of all, any company that want to come out with a connector that works the way the MagSafe connector does is free to do so. Apple can't patent the idea of the connector, only the specific design, because it's nothing new.

Yes, folks, it's nothing new!

My chocolate fountain (you know, those things that melt chocolate then pump it up the top to cascade over several curved levels to drop to the bottom where it goes round and round 'till the kids sop up all the chocolate and get sick the next morning), which I bought a couple of years before Apple came out with their MagSafe connector, has one too!

Yes, my $75 dollar chocolate machine has a "MagSafe" connector.

So whatever patents Apple took out on theirs, are specific to Apple's design.

Now that I've been looking for them, I've found them elsewhere as well.

So Apple can do whatever they want to, often, it has no effect on anyone else.
post #82 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Are you serious about this? What does this have to do with anything here?

First of all, any company that want to come out with a connector that works the way the MagSafe connector does is free to do so. Apple can't patent the idea of the connector, only the specific design, because it's nothing new.

Yes, folks, it's nothing new!

My chocolate fountain (you know, those things that melt chocolate then pump it up the top to cascade over several curved levels to drop to the bottom where it goes round and round 'till the kids sop up all the chocolate and get sick the next morning), which I bought a couple of years before Apple came out with their MagSafe connector, has one too!

Yes, my $75 dollar chocolate machine has a "MagSafe" connector.

So whatever patents Apple took out on theirs, are specific to Apple's design.

Now that I've been looking for them, I've found them elsewhere as well.

So Apple can do whatever they want to, often, it has no effect on anyone else.


Looks like someone needs to moderate the moderator. Your chocolate fountain "revelation" adds nothing new to the discussion because he already stated that "magnetic plugs are common place for tea kettles and rice cookers". So your attempt to be sarcastic or dramatic was for nothing.

You also state that any company is free to make a connector that works like MagSafe, and that Apple's MagSafe patents have no effect on anyone else. Do you mean that any company is free to make power accessories that can plug into the MagSafe connector on Apple laptops? Because he seems to think that's not the case. Can you disprove his claim by referring to any third party power accessories that plug into the MagSafe connector on Apple laptops?

Note: There is a seller (www.mikegyver.com) which sells a MagSafe car charger, but it requires cannibalizing parts from an original Apple MagSafe power adapter. This is what the person meant when he stated that third party MagSafe products "are only available as hacks". This is not the same as if the company made the magnetic connector themselves.
post #83 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Looks like someone needs to moderate the moderator. Your chocolate fountain "revelation" adds nothing new to the discussion because he already stated that "magnetic plugs are common place for tea kettles and rice cookers". So your attempt to be sarcastic or dramatic was for nothing.

I did read his post before I posted. But I mentioned my chocolate fountain several months ago. The histronics were deliberate because his post has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

Quote:
You also state that any company is free to make a connector that works like MagSafe, and that Apple's MagSafe patents have no effect on anyone else. Do you mean that any company is free to make power accessories that can plug into the MagSafe connector on Apple laptops? Because he seems to think that's not the case. Can you disprove his claim by referring to any third party power accessories that plug into the MagSafe connector on Apple laptops?

I also stated that Apple's patents are only for their design, as the concept is nothing new. If another company wants to make a connector that interfaces with Apple's, they would have to figure out a way to get around Apple's patent. Difficult, but perhaps not impossible.

Pointing to third party accessories as proof one way or the other isn't possible. The lack of same proves nothing, because it's really such a limited use connector, after all, its just for the power, recharger cord, that one would have to find someone who WANTS to make one. For what purpose?

Quote:
Note: There is a seller (www.mikegyver.com) which sells a MagSafe car charger, but it requires cannibalizing parts from an original Apple MagSafe power adapter. This is what the person meant when he stated that third party MagSafe products "are only available as hacks". This is not the same as if the company made the magnetic connector themselves.

It does look as though that's a hack. It seems as though they don't have enough money to make a real product, and so have to do this. I don't think that they actually make the products they sell, but distribute them. This is certainly a kludge. I see nothing special here.

What I was referring to was that companies can, and have been making similar products for years. Chances are that others have patents as well.
post #84 of 89
What's bad about the mini DSP? If Apple thinks it needs a smaller port to fit their macbooks, they should do so. If macbook owners really wanted to connect it to a big screen, wouldn't a mini DSP to DSP cable just suffice?
post #85 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't remember how Apple handled ADC, but here, they've announced free licensing from the very beginning, and have entered the connector to VESA's standardization process even BEFORE Apple's new products came out.

Standardization or licensing fees doesn't mean jack if Apple's the only one using it. When ADC came out, Apple offered adapters to connect a ADC Mac to DVI and VGA displays and to connect a DVI PC or Mac to an ADC display. So far they have only offered adapters to connect Macs to older technology ports such as VGA and DVI. There has been no effort on Apple's part to connect mini-DP to either standard displayport of HDMI. There has also been no effort to connect the new 24" display to anything else. Standard or not, at this time, Mini-DP is the most restrictive display connector Apple has ever used.

Quote:
Apple DID announce, as you should know from at least what you've read here, that mini DP will be on ALL of their new computers. So, that part is fixed.

The only way we'll get evidence is to wait to see what happens.

I wouldn't call that fixed as much as very troubling. Like ADC before it, a full Mini-DP strategy might come back to bite Apple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by docyoast View Post

What's bad about the mini DSP? If Apple thinks it needs a smaller port to fit their macbooks, they should do so. If macbook owners really wanted to connect it to a big screen, wouldn't a mini DSP to DSP cable just suffice?

If you are talking about a big screen display, yes a standard displayport adapter would do the trick (if the display offers DP connectivity). If you're talking about a big screen TV, you'll need a HDMI adapter. Problem is that neither of which currently exist.
post #86 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Standardization or licensing fees doesn't mean jack if Apple's the only one using it. When ADC came out, Apple offered adapters to connect a ADC Mac to DVI and VGA displays and to connect a DVI PC or Mac to an ADC display. So far they have only offered adapters to connect Macs to older technology ports such as VGA and DVI. There has been no effort on Apple's part to connect mini-DP to either standard displayport of HDMI. There has also been no effort to connect the new 24" display to anything else. Standard or not, at this time, Mini-DP is the most restrictive display connector Apple has ever used.

I guess it's easy to argue if you don't bother to pay any attention to the entire argument, just one point.

Why don't you discuss the other points I brought up as well, or does that damage yours so much you don't want to mention it?
post #87 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I guess it's easy to argue if you don't bother to pay any attention to the entire argument, just one point.

Why don't you discuss the other points I brought up as well, or does that damage yours so much you don't want to mention it?

What other point? You said something about cable being included in most firewire and USB devices and that because Apple has implemented fee licensing the cables are going to magically appear or something. You twisted my thread about physical implementation into one about licensing.
post #88 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

What other point? You said something about cable being included in most firewire and USB devices and that because Apple has implemented fee licensing the cables are going to magically appear or something. You twisted my thread about physical implementation into one about licensing.

The point I made several times was that Apple is already selling more computers with mini DP ports than all other computer manufactures put together that are selling computers with full size ports.

Since we are using numbers as points of importance, that one ranks as number one.

Once, in not much more than a month from now, Apple puts these ports on the rest of their models, Apple will be selling several times as many computers in numbers sold, than all others having DP ports, and that very likely includes all of those computers with those ports that have been ALREADY sold.

This makes a big difference from what Apple did with their mess of FW many years ago. First they tried to charge too much for a port, which drove Intel, at first a big supporter, away.

Then they dribbled it on their machines, one model at a time. They then supported it with no external HDDs, which would have helped. They even dropped it from the one device which could have made enough of a difference, the iPod.

This is very different. Apple is no longer thought of as the also-ran, whose pronouncements mean little.

Apple is now a rich, popular, powerhouse that can't be ignored.

Back then, most people still didn't know who Apple was, or what they did. Today, it's one of the worlds most powerful brands, whose recognition is moving up year by year.

By giving this port for consideration as a standard to VESA right away, Apple is signaling that they want to cooperate with the standards process. As most standards come from proprietary devices, as I keep telling people, this is no different from that.

There is no reason why this won't be adopted.
post #89 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The point I made several times was that Apple is already selling more computers with mini DP ports than all other computer manufactures put together that are selling computers with full size ports.
[...]
There is no reason why this won't be adopted.

Excellent post.
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