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Adobe to be largely a no-show at Macworld 2009

post #1 of 51
Thread Starter 
Usually one of most reliable and dominating presences on the show floor at Macworld's annual San Francisco expo, Adobe Systems is now warning that its presence at the 2009 event will be limited to the sidelines.

The well-known Photoshop developer told show hosts Macworld on Wednesday that it will "shift focus" and drop plans for its typically large booth.

Instead, Adobe will relegate itself to certain session tracks that include a complete day of demonstrations for the individual Creative Suite 4 apps.

The software firm is quick to dismiss any notions of ill will between itself and Macworld's parent company IDG, calling Macworld Expo a "valuable industry show" that it intends to participate in.

"The Mac community is very important to us and we will continue our strong support for this platform," the official statement reads.

No direct explanation is given for the pullback, though the news falls on the same day as Adobe has announced that it would miss its fall quarter revenue targets due to the world economic crisis. As part of an effort to improve its financial health, the company plan to cut 600 full-time jobs worldwide and to sharpen its focus on "key strategic priorities" that now don't appear to include its usual show booth.

post #2 of 51
Oh \ That's sad. Usually they have the best booths with great people. Well they'll be missed this year.

On the lighter note, Apple now has twice as much space!!!
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post #3 of 51
Yeah, it's too bad, but it parallels what Apple itself is doing. They left the Macworld when it went back to Boston, which killed that.

They didn't appear at this year's Photo Expo here in NYC this last October, after appearing at the two before, etc.

These expo's are losing ground all around. It's possible that the Macworld's will go that way too.
post #4 of 51
Abobe is scared to face the wrath of users after releasing CS4 a mere 14 months after CS3 was released. Abobe used to go 3 years between releases. I guess ever since they gobbled up Macromedia and became a monopoly in pro graphics software they figure they can get away with charging what they want, as often as they want. They're just a bunch of rapists, IMO.
post #5 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

Abobe is scared to face the wrath of users after releasing CS4 a mere 14 months after CS3 was released. Abobe used to go 3 years between releases. I guess ever since they gobbled up Macromedia and became a monopoly in pro graphics software they figure they can get away with charging what they want, as often as they want. They're just a bunch of rapists, IMO.

No, they're not.

Where do you get that idea from?

And when did they ever go three years? It's always been around 18 months, give or take a few.
post #6 of 51
I understand Adobe and other companies doing this. Costs need to be managed and you need to leverage tradeshows when they stand to make a large impact in your business.

Apple didn't buy a big booth at NAB last year and some people freaked but in reality they had nothing to show that people hadn't already seen.

Of course this "could" mean that in a scant few months Adobe will announce that all of their applications will go to being PC only.
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post #7 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

Abobe is scared to face the wrath of users after releasing CS4 a mere 14 months after CS3 was released. Abobe used to go 3 years between releases.

I call BS. The interval between 3 and 4 is about 18 months, not 14. I don't see three years between any releases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_P...elease_history

If you have better sources, please post it.
post #8 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I call BS. The interval between 3 and 4 is about 18 months, not 14. I don't see three years between any releases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_P...elease_history

If you have better sources, please post it.

He doesn't. It's the typical looniness we get here.
post #9 of 51
...to apply their proven expertise in usable stable quality software to the integration and improvement of Macromedia products - or allow the appalling design, engineering and usability of their acquisition to infect Adobe's own. As someone using Dreamweaver CS3 (paid) that STILL has major problems ftping a file over 200K in size on anything but a 8MB connection (no, it's NOT me!), and is just generally an example of buggy software with a crap interface design (to put it bluntly!), I think Adobe dropped the ball a few years ago. What a contrast to Apple's very well executed Keynote, iPhoto and other apps that are a delight to use - not to mention the iPhone experience itself. Apple are simply filling the void left by a company that has lost its way with a multitude of bloated apps that appear to merge their functionality causing total confusion to some of us. And Flash has so many issues that to be frank, I don't blame Apple not using it on the iPhone. I am on a 24Megabit optical broadband connection and the BBC's Flash based streaming audio (i)Player stutters and looses the sound constantly. But if I fire up an Internet radio app on our company iPod Touch 2G (V2?) and tune into the Beebeecee (or any other streaming audio source), it works just lovely jubbly!) (As a human factors guy, I have a big problem with how Flash handles browser 'Back' buttons anyway, that is, it doesn't!) Adobe, get your act together, or become like MS and go all mediocre and complicated...
post #10 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonderkid View Post

...to apply their proven expertise in usable stable quality software to the integration and improvement of Macromedia products - or allow the appalling design, engineering and usability of their acquisition to infect Adobe's own. As someone using Dreamweaver CS3 (paid) that STILL has major problems ftping a file over 200K in size on anything but a 8MB connection (no, it's NOT me!), and is just generally an example of buggy software with a crap interface design (to put it bluntly!), I think Adobe dropped the ball a few years ago. What a contrast to Apple's very well executed Keynote, iPhoto and other apps that are a delight to use - not to mention the iPhone experience itself. Apple are simply filling the void left by a company that has lost its way with a multitude of bloated apps that appear to merge their functionality causing total confusion to some of us. And Flash has so many issues that to be frank, I don't blame Apple not using it on the iPhone. I am on a 24Megabit optical broadband connection and the BBC's Flash based streaming audio (i)Player stutters and looses the sound constantly. But if I fire up an Internet radio app on our company iPod Touch 2G (V2?) and tune into the Beebeecee (or any other streaming audio source), it works just lovely jubbly!) (As a human factors guy, I have a big problem with how Flash handles browser 'Back' buttons anyway, that is, it doesn't!) Adobe, get your act together, or become like MS and go all mediocre and complicated...

[/rant]
But I agree
post #11 of 51
Ok, a smiley face in the subject line is not enough to submit a post. I have to type something. So, glad you agree. Hopefully the man from Adowbee is scanning these here forums and will bang his fist on the big glass table in their San Jose board room and ensure some asses are kicked...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALBIM View Post

[/rant]
But I agree
post #12 of 51
Its probably all about the bottom line; booths are expensive marketing tools and if the economy worsens, businesses and consumers are not going to be running out to buy $1,000 software programs.
post #13 of 51
Is Adobe a possible takeover target for Apple? Would it benefit Apple to acquire Adobe even if it could? Could the two cultures work beside each other to advance their respective arts?

Anyone here have worthwhile insights?
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post #14 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

Is Adobe a possible takeover target for Apple? Would it benefit Apple to acquire Adobe even if it could? Could the two cultures work beside each other to advance their respective arts?

Anyone here have worthwhile insights?

I don't know if they're worthwhile, but I've jawed about this here before.

I thought Apple should have bought Macromedia when they put themselves up for sale.

Buying Adobe would present some problems, esp after THEY bought Macromedia. first of all, it would be expensive. Apple hasn't done expensive.

Secondly, most of Adobes sales are for PC's. What does Apple do about that?

If you buy one program, you can discontinue support for other platforms But if you buy a company that has a large number of products, and two thirds of their sales come from other platforms, you can't do that. If Apple did, they would destroy the value of their purchase, which would negate the whole point.

I don't see it, unless Apple wants to become the major supplier of graphics, publishing, and video editing software for the Windows PC world.
post #15 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

No, they're not.

Where do you get that idea from?

And when did they ever go three years? It's always been around 18 months, give or take a few.

OK, maybe 3 years was a bit of an exaggeration for rhetorical reasons--it was more like 2 years, but still, today Adobe is going to the well far too frequently. Let's take a look at Photoshop's release history, for example.

Photoshop 2.5 - released 11/1992

Photoshop 3.0 - released 11/1994

Photoshop 4.0 - released 11/1996

after that, the schedule accelerates...

Photoshop 5.0 - released 5/1998

then slows back down...

Photoshop 6.0 - released 9/2000

then accelerates again...

Photoshop 7.0 - released 3/2002

Photoshop CS - released 10/2003

Photoshop CS2 - released 4/2005

then back to Adobe's original 2-year schedule...

Photoshop CS3 - released 4/2007

Photoshop CS4 - released 10/2008

The interval between CS3 and CS4 is the shortest in Adobe's history. I rest my case.
post #16 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't know if they're worthwhile, but I've jawed about this here before.

I thought Apple should have bought Macromedia when they put themselves up for sale.

Buying Adobe would present some problems, esp after THEY bought Macromedia. first of all, it would be expensive. Apple hasn't done expensive.

Secondly, most of Adobes sales are for PC's. What does Apple do about that?

If you buy one program, you can discontinue support for other platforms But if you buy a company that has a large number of products, and two thirds of their sales come from other platforms, you can't do that. If Apple did, they would destroy the value of their purchase, which would negate the whole point.

I don't see it, unless Apple wants to become the major supplier of graphics, publishing, and video editing software for the Windows PC world.

Excellent points - thanks for that. The relationship with Adobe and their attitudes toward the Mac must be somewhat galling to Apple. Along with Microsoft, Adobe's relationship with Apple stretches back to the earliest days.

All the best.
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post #17 of 51
post #18 of 51
Trade shows are quickly becoming an obsolete way to demo your products.

Particularly since Adobe is heading towards subscribed products that you access over the net and never actually install on your own computer.
post #19 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.C. View Post

Trade shows are quickly becoming an obsolete way to demo your products.

I disagree with this.

Trade shows (done properly) help generate buzz. And, Adobe needs some buzz for CS4.

I, for one, am waiting to upgrade to CS4 as it will cost me $1200 for 2 licenses for CS4 Web Developer upgrades and my company has 2 employees. I can't justify spending $1200 so that I can copy in Word 2008 and paste into Dreamweaver.

None of the reviews, so far, have gotten me excited about CS4.

More positive, enthusiastic reviews pouring out of Macworld might push me into upgrading.
post #20 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

More positive, enthusiastic reviews pouring out of Macworld might push me into upgrading.

CS4 is too little, too soon and too expensive.

Why would experiencing that in the middle of a big noisy room be any different than reading the reviews. It is what it is.

Adobe offered to fly a guy from Denver to my studio in Santa Barbara to demo some products. But they were subscribed, not one time purchases. That model is going away.
post #21 of 51
It would be pretty lame to hand hundreds of employees pink slips and then announce later that day that you were buying a huge presence at a trade show happening few weeks later. If you're taking drastic measures like cutting the workforce, that means you have major money troubles, and the trade show budget should have been cut already.

I'm no Adobe apologist, or even a fan, but this is the right move for them.

At the same time, I'm happy to see that Adobe's old-world Microsoft business plan of buying the competition and spreading its dominance everywhere possible by force is not working out for them. Apple's and Google's resistence to Flash is panning out well. Adobe isn't going anywhere soon, either up or down. It was a shortsighted strategy from the get go, and they're paying for their lack of vision.

But I do feel bad for the employees who are out of work tonight.
post #22 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

Excellent points - thanks for that. The relationship with Adobe and their attitudes toward the Mac must be somewhat galling to Apple. Along with Microsoft, Adobe's relationship with Apple stretches back to the earliest days.

All the best.

It's Apple's fault as well. This had been a symbiotic relationship from the beginning.
post #23 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

I disagree with this.

Trade shows (done properly) help generate buzz. And, Adobe needs some buzz for CS4.

I, for one, am waiting to upgrade to CS4 as it will cost me $1200 for 2 licenses for CS4 Web Developer upgrades and my company has 2 employees. I can't justify spending $1200 so that I can copy in Word 2008 and paste into Dreamweaver.

None of the reviews, so far, have gotten me excited about CS4.

More positive, enthusiastic reviews pouring out of Macworld might push me into upgrading.

Trade shows are dying. They have been for years.
post #24 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Trade shows are dying. They have been for years.

So has every hypochondriac who ever lived!
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post #25 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

So has every hypochondriac who ever lived!

That's cute, but this is the truth.

Where is the largest computer trade show in the world today? I'm talking about Comdex, in case you haven't heard of it.

What about the big computer trade show here in NYC that we had every year, PC Expo, which attracted at its peak, 90,000 people?

Well, that's gone too.

So are many others.

Where is the East Coast Macworld?

I can keep naming trade shows that are no longer here, but you should be getting the point.

Manufacturers have been sending less people to these shows, and customers have been sending less people to these shows. After a point, the show becomes too small to survive.

The internet is helping this happen. It's too easy to get the info you could only easily get at a trade show. It's also updated constantly.

The same thing is happening to specialty technology magazines.

The latest to drop their paper copy is PC Magazine. It's now only on the internet.

Same thing with BYTE years ago.
post #26 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's cute, but this is the truth.

Where is the largest computer trade show in the world today? I'm talking about Comdex, in case you haven't heard of it.

What about the big computer trade show here in NYC that we had every year, PC Expo, which attracted at its peak, 90,000 people?

Well, that's gone too.

So are many others.

Where is the East Coast Macworld?

I can keep naming trade shows that are no longer here, but you should be getting the point.

Manufacturers have been sending less people to these shows, and customers have been sending less people to these shows. After a point, the show becomes too small to survive.

The internet is helping this happen. It's too easy to get the info you could only easily get at a trade show. It's also updated constantly.

The same thing is happening to specialty technology magazines.

The latest to drop their paper copy is PC Magazine. It's now only on the internet.

Same thing with BYTE years ago.

Fair enough. I remember the days when we'd be hanging out for Byte to arrive. \
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post #27 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's cute, but this is the truth.

Where is the largest computer trade show in the world today? I'm talking about Comdex, in case you haven't heard of it.

Well, the largest computer and it technology trade show still is taking place in Germany and is called CeBit.

Did Apple came to the CeBit at all? No, the didn't. So I think it's not so special when Adobe won't be at at Macworld 09 - companies mainly spend money on things the think are useful to their business goals. Obviously Macs are not a major goal of Adobe any more, sitting in the second row.

Apple is going strong in consumer electronics, leaving pros aside. Adobe is still serving pros...
post #28 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Trade shows are dying. They have been for years.

Dying quickly and painfully. I attended the London Creative Expo back in October. Up until this year it was the Mac Expo but they had to combine Mac/Creative/Linux into one expo. Even so it was a pitiful show, especially compared to previous years. Adobe was the only major company at the show-Apple and Microsoft were nowhere to be found. About 2/3s of the floor space was dedicated to user groups and a couple of local hardware/software vendors. If I hadn't gotten a free pass to the floor I probably would have pretty upset.

I guess in the future I'll have to hang a cup holder onto the edge of my monitor and be satisfied watching Steve Jobs from afar.
post #29 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's cute, but this is the truth.

Where is the largest computer trade show in the world today? I'm talking about Comdex, in case you haven't heard of it.

What about the big computer trade show here in NYC that we had every year, PC Expo, which attracted at its peak, 90,000 people?

Well, that's gone too.

So are many others.

Where is the East Coast Macworld?

I can keep naming trade shows that are no longer here, but you should be getting the point.

Manufacturers have been sending less people to these shows, and customers have been sending less people to these shows. After a point, the show becomes too small to survive.

The internet is helping this happen. It's too easy to get the info you could only easily get at a trade show. It's also updated constantly.

The same thing is happening to specialty technology magazines.

The latest to drop their paper copy is PC Magazine. It's now only on the internet.

Same thing with BYTE years ago.

How about MacWeek? I still have a few copies of it sitting around. It's hard to believe that they could churn out such a large WEEKLY publication. The Internet certainly killed that sort of publication.
post #30 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

Abobe is scared to face the wrath of users after releasing CS4 a mere 14 months after CS3 was released. Abobe used to go 3 years between releases. I guess ever since they gobbled up Macromedia and became a monopoly in pro graphics software they figure they can get away with charging what they want, as often as they want. They're just a bunch of rapists, IMO.

So, when CS 4 was released your copies of CS 3 quit working?
post #31 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's cute, but this is the truth.

Where is the largest computer trade show in the world today? I'm talking about Comdex, in case you haven't heard of it.

What about the big computer trade show here in NYC that we had every year, PC Expo, which attracted at its peak, 90,000 people?

Well, that's gone too.

So are many others.

Where is the East Coast Macworld?

I can keep naming trade shows that are no longer here, but you should be getting the point.

Manufacturers have been sending less people to these shows, and customers have been sending less people to these shows. After a point, the show becomes too small to survive.

The internet is helping this happen. It's too easy to get the info you could only easily get at a trade show. It's also updated constantly.

The same thing is happening to specialty technology magazines.

The latest to drop their paper copy is PC Magazine. It's now only on the internet.

Same thing with BYTE years ago.

Don't forget that newspapers are also hurting and/or dying. The internet is taking a huge toll on publications. One can go to Adobe's website and get excellent video tutorials for their products, and they 're free. That cuts costs for vendors as well as trade show attendees. The hand writing is on the wall. Not that I don't love trade shows, but then I also loved train travel which is also nothing but a shadow of what used to be.
post #32 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.C. View Post

CS4 is too little, too soon and too expensive.

That's an opinion, not fact. Some pro photo people are loving PS CS 4.
post #33 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

That's an opinion, not fact. Some pro photo people are loving PS CS 4.

I know of a couple who thinks its a great improvement

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post #34 of 51
Many have said it before and I'm going to say it again. This is especially relevant in this down economy with Apple having a boat-load of cash to take advantage of the situation. Apple would benefit greatly from the purchase of Adobe. Their tools would complement Apple's quite well. Plus their developer work-force is highly prized.

Go for it Apple!
post #35 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

So, when CS 4 was released your copies of CS 3 quit working?

The problem is not that our CS3 installs have quit working. I work for an advertising agency, and when we're forced to upgrade because Adobe has arbitrarily decided to change native file formats generated by their current products, it costs us $30,000 to upgrade all of our workstations--and we're a small agency. And to do it after only 14 months since CS3 was introduced is robbery. It's naked corporate greed, pure and simple. If we don't upgrade we will not be able to open and work with files we receive from vendors and clients who are using CS4. This is essentially a tax that Adobe has imposed on the pro graphics community so they can pad their bottom line. It's completely unnecessary from a functionality standpoint. It's a case of them using their monopoly status to bully their customers into upgrading.
post #36 of 51
Unless Adobe is going to start releasing software for the iPhone, why would they give a shit about attending Macworld?
post #37 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauner View Post

Well, the largest computer and it technology trade show still is taking place in Germany and is called CeBit.

Did Apple came to the CeBit at all? No, the didn't. So I think it's not so special when Adobe won't be at at Macworld 09 - companies mainly spend money on things the think are useful to their business goals. Obviously Macs are not a major goal of Adobe any more, sitting in the second row.

Apple is going strong in consumer electronics, leaving pros aside. Adobe is still serving pros...

Yes, CeBit is the largest now. But even CeBit is shrinking.

Companies have been cutting back for years. Business no longer has the cushion it once had. Now, with the worldwide recession, which will be a bad one, there will be even more cutbacks, shrinking the time before more shows go under.

I used to design and build things for Showtime for the Cable Network trade shows held around the country. There used to be at least a half dozen of these very big, and expensive shows held every year. Now it's down to two.

Last year's NAB was smaller.

This is only going to continue.
post #38 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by night9hawk View Post

Dying quickly and painfully. I attended the London Creative Expo back in October. Up until this year it was the Mac Expo but they had to combine Mac/Creative/Linux into one expo. Even so it was a pitiful show, especially compared to previous years. Adobe was the only major company at the show-Apple and Microsoft were nowhere to be found. About 2/3s of the floor space was dedicated to user groups and a couple of local hardware/software vendors. If I hadn't gotten a free pass to the floor I probably would have pretty upset.

I guess in the future I'll have to hang a cup holder onto the edge of my monitor and be satisfied watching Steve Jobs from afar.

This is what happened to the PC Expo here in NYC the last years of it's existence. First, they incorporated the Business Expo, which was separate, by allowing you to go to both shows. Then they made it part of the main show. Then they added another separate show, the name of which I forget. Each time, however, total attendance shrunk.

This was a show that IBM had a vast exhibit to, Motorola had, Intel had, etc.
post #39 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by night9hawk View Post

How about MacWeek? I still have a few copies of it sitting around. It's hard to believe that they could churn out such a large WEEKLY publication. The Internet certainly killed that sort of publication.

MacWeek was major. MacUser combined with Macworld, though the size kept shrinking.

I still have hundreds of older magazine that I keep for historical purposes. Creative Computing. MacUser. Macworld.Publish, BYTE. Desktop Publishing, Popular Computing, Adobe Magazine. STart Magazine (Atari St), etc.

All gone, except for Publish, which has nothing to do with it anymore, ironically.

Remember Computer Shopper? I don't know if that's still around.
post #40 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

Don't forget that newspapers are also hurting and/or dying. The internet is taking a huge toll on publications. One can go to Adobe's website and get excellent video tutorials for their products, and they 're free. That cuts costs for vendors as well as trade show attendees. The hand writing is on the wall. Not that I don't love trade shows, but then I also loved train travel which is also nothing but a shadow of what used to be.

The internet changed everything. EVERYTHING. And it will never go back.

I remember that I used to PAY to get 3.5" floppies every month with the latest shareware and freeware for my Mac. It cost plenty too. I didn't mind, because you could never find it otherwise.

Updates and upgrades. Sheesh! We often wouldn't find out about them for months after they were released. Waiting for a monthly mag to mention it. Wait for the mag to tell us what was the latest news. Try to get them on floppies, and then on CD's. We used to have to pay for updates as well. We expected that, because it cost to burn them to the disks, package them, and mail them out.

Now? Everything's so fast on the 'net, that even the updates meant to fix problems have problems, because people expect them NOW. Companies can no longer take the time to do it right, knowing that most users didn't even know about it. We find out about a problem with something that came out Monday morning, Monday afternoon, and expect a fix sometime Tuesday. No wonder companies go crazy.
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