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The Generational Blind Spot-BOOM! - Page 5

post #161 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Can we make up our mind? Jimmac swears it is 8 and you swear it is 25.

I'm swearing it's 25? Hell, I just picked that number because it was a convenient one for when I was possibly old enough (5) to pick up on it. Really I think the most accurate number would be 40 years.

It's just another way to say "I hate hippies" and uncritically discount anyone ideologically adverse - or anyone ideologically aligned whose policies turn to shit - in an 18 year swath of time (or however wide the boomer generation is supposed to be).
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post #162 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

I'm swearing it's 25? Hell, I just picked that number because it was a convenient one for when I was possibly old enough (5) to pick up on it. Really I think the most accurate number would be 40 years.

It's just another way to say "I hate hippies" and uncritically discount anyone ideologically adverse - or anyone ideologically aligned whose policies turn to shit - in an 18 year swath of time (or however wide the boomer generation is supposed to be).

We could take it from a number of points. The boomer couldn't control the moves away from the gold standard that FDR began, but they supported and have not corrected the move away from any type of standard (Bretton-Woods was the last one) with regard to currency.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #163 of 452
is this the grounding of your gripes?

The loss of the gold-standard?

haha

How much gold is there in the world? how much money in circulation?
And why is there this absurd perception that gold has some substantial reason to be valued other than its heavy, shiney and somewhat rare?
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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post #164 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Can we make up our mind? Jimmac swears it is 8 and you swear it is 25.



Feeling a little misogynistic?



Congress controls the spending. The story there is much clearer. We just watched the Congress go back and add anoher $410 billion to this fiscal year after passing a continuing resolution to get past Bush. You are welcome to explain how Bush controlled that.



Boomers are not at all prepared. It seems like the boomer remorse is growing and starting to show up in more and more places.

We are staring at unfunded liabilities for Medicare and Social Security in the tens of trillions of dollars. Where's that money going to come from? We have to either raise taxes or cut benefits. There are no other options.

The baby boomers are starting to retire and will consume an ever larger share of these entitlement programs. They will also age in sufficient numbers to drive the political agenda for the foreseeable future. Think they're going to want less Social Security and less Medicare? Think again.

The generation coming along behind them that will be asked to pay for all this can't. There are not enough good jobs left in this country to pay those kinds of bills.

At the end of the day, we are going to have to settle for less. Less money, smaller houses, smaller cars and smaller dreams.

This is not your father's country anymore. And we had better all start getting used to it.


They won't get used to it. They have and will run it into the ground with their dishonesty and attempts to act as they have their entire lives. I mean how do you fix broke by going trillions more into debt? How do you run on hope, change and paygo and then claim a depression to institute trillions in payoffs to political allies.

The breadth and depth of the lies and spending is what is historic now. It is amazing.

Quote:
Boomers are not at all prepared. It seems like the boomer remorse is growing and starting to show up in more and more places.

Hey! Besides you have you found any real experts on this situation that specifically name Boomers as a cause?

Any at all?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #165 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Hey! Besides you have you found any real experts on this situation that specifically name Boomers as a cause?

Any at all?

They'll explain it as they enjoy your liver.

[CENTER][/CENTER]

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #166 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

They'll explain it as they enjoy your liver.

[CENTER][/CENTER]

Quote:
Hey! Besides you have you found any real experts on this situation that specifically name Boomers as a cause?

Anyone?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #167 of 452
Thread Starter 
We already addressed this. Frank asked for this earlier in the thread and we spent about two pages on it. I found half a dozen articles that cited all the mounting evidence but he kept wanting the word. So I gave him the word in a very well written article that noted all the trends, timelines and said boomer. Go look at all of those and see if any of the people who wrote them qualify as "any real expert" since I don't care to waste time debating about whether your brain accepts them as a "real expert." Plenty of economists disagree with Krugman for example but I guess they must not be "real."

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #168 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

We already addressed this. Frank asked for this earlier in the thread and we spent about two pages on it. I found half a dozen articles that cited all the mounting evidence but he kept wanting the word. So I gave him the word in a very well written article that noted all the trends, timelines and said boomer. Go look at all of those and see if any of the people who wrote them qualify as "any real expert" since I don't care to waste time debating about whether your brain accepts them as a "real expert." Plenty of economists disagree with Krugman for example but I guess they must not be "real."


Quote:
I found half a dozen articles that cited all the mounting evidence but he kept wanting the word.

Besides yourself was there any expert who used the word " Boomer " in these articles?

Quote:
Plenty of economists disagree with Krugman for example

Allow me to quote you from a recent thread :
Quote:
There are plenty of economist of all persuasions who disagree with the stimulus. As for being better than them, since I would guess that a solid majority of them didn't predict this downturn and I did, I'd say sure.

So here you've kind of disqulified them. And sound like you're saying if they didn't predict this crisis what good are they?

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...t=95454&page=2

As has been stated to you trumpy most economists really don't know for sure how the stimulus will affect things. How could you? Oh! I forgot you're better than them.


Quote:
We already addressed this.

Yes Frank did.

So back to anyone?
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post #169 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Besides yourself was there any expert who used the word " Boomer " in these articles?


So I gave him the word in a very well written article that noted all the trends, timelines and said boomer.


Quote:
So here you've kind of disqulified them. And sound like you're saying if they didn't predict this crisis what good are they?

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...t=95454&page=2

As has been stated to you trumpy most economists really don't know for sure how the stimulus will affect things. How could you? Oh! I forgot you're better than them.

The point of any science be it a hard or soft one is to bring about understanding and be predictive. Anyone can be right about where we are going when looking through a rear view mirror. If you can't say where we are going and why, then what good is anyone as an expert?

Speaking of predictive, I'd be more than happy for you to submit the link to where Krugman predicted this downturn. If he knows what will get us out, he must have known what was getting us in and pointed it out before hand.

Quote:
Yes Frank did.

So back to anyone?

Your comprehension problems aside, I side I posted the article blaming it on boomer with the word boomers and them listed as cause for Frank. Go back and read it.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #170 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


So I gave him the word in a very well written article that noted all the trends, timelines and said boomer.




The point of any science be it a hard or soft one is to bring about understanding and be predictive. Anyone can be right about where we are going when looking through a rear view mirror. If you can't say where we are going and why, then what good is anyone as an expert?

Speaking of predictive, I'd be more than happy for you to submit the link to where Krugman predicted this downturn. If he knows what will get us out, he must have known what was getting us in and pointed it out before hand.



Your comprehension problems aside, I side I posted the article blaming it on boomer with the word boomers and them listed as cause for Frank. Go back and read it.

Quote:
So I gave him the word in a very well written article that noted all the trends, timelines and said boomer.

In the context you mean it? And who was this by? And this was one person? And what was Frank's response? I wonder what he'll have to say when he reads this?

Quote:
Speaking of predictive, I'd be more than happy for you to submit the link to where Krugman predicted this downturn. If he knows what will get us out, he must have known what was getting us in and pointed it out before hand.

Yes and the solution he states is the exact opposite of what you've been saying. He likes Obama's plan it just too small. So that would me mean more of the spending you say you don't like. So which is trumptman?

This :
Quote:
Your comprehension problems aside

Is a personal attack.

Anyway this all brings us back to proof?
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post #171 of 452
Passing blame on one age demographic is like passing blame on people in general.

This age demographic was caused by all those people that came before.

This whole thread is predicated on a flawed premise, that one demographic, and only one demographic, is the sole cause of our current economic situation.

Did the Boomers ask to be born?

I vote this thread PO's most fruitless thread ever. \
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #172 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

So I gave him the word in a very well written article that noted all the trends, timelines and said boomer.

And I fully refuted almost everything in that article with actual facts. But that post vanished.

And I called the author of said article a "lier." I actually mispelled the word liar, no word trickery involved, I simply mispelled a word.

The mod did not understand who I was calling a liar, not you, but the author of said article, thus my refutation of said facts with actual facts vanished.

I received a 10-day ban for not being more explicit in who exactly I was calling a liar.

The last time I received a 10-day ban was for reposting just the factual information from a previous post of mine in another thread that vanished, as I was accused of reposting verbatim what the mod had originally removed. Nothing could have been further from the truth. Those facts also vanished.

I'm now in shutdown mode.

I've turned off all the options possible in the user CP.

My own PO rulez now are the following;

1) Never report posts from others for any reason. You see, I'm an adult and 100% skin deep.
2) Ignore the mod completely. In other words, whatever they do, I don't whine or complain, I simply move on.
3) I expect my posts to vanish without a moment's hesitation (like this one will be, I'm sure), just like random events that occur in nature.
4) Don't place anyone ever on an ignore list, as far as I'm concerned ignore lists don't exist.
5) Discussion, discourse, dialog, and then finally debate. In that order. However, since the trend in PO appears to be to present just half the data or argument, I have had to adjust accordingly. Two can play at that game.
6) Make sure all ad hominem attacks are directed at those who are not in PO, and to be very explicit in those attacks, to avoid any possible confusion by said mod.
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post #173 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

And I fully refuted almost everything in that article with actual facts. But that post vanished.

And I called the author of said article a "lier." I actually mispelled the word liar, no word trickery involved, I simply mispelled a word.

The mod did not understand who I was calling a liar, not you, but the author of said article, thus my refutation of said facts with actual facts vanished.

I received a 10-day ban for not being more explicit in who exactly I was calling a liar.

The last time I received a 10-day ban was for reposting just the factual information from a previous post of mine in another thread that vanished, as I was accused of reposting verbatim what the mod had originally removed. Nothing could have been further from the truth. Those facts also vanished.

I'm now in shutdown mode.

I've turned off all the options possible in the user CP.

My own PO rulez now are the following;

1) Never report posts from others for any reason. You see, I'm an adult and 100% skin deep.
2) Ignore the mod completely. In other words, whatever they do, I don't whine or complain, I simply move on.
3) I Expect my posts to vanish without a moment's hesitation (like this one will be, I'm sure), just like random events that occur in nature.
4) Don't place anyone ever on an ignore list, as far as I'm concerned ignore lists don't exist.
5) Discussion, discourse, dialog, and then finally debate. In that order. However, since the trend in PO appears to be to present just half the data or argument, I have had to adjust accordingly. Two can play at that game.
6) Make sure all ad hominem attacks are directed at those who are not in PO, and to be very explicit in those attacks, to avoid any possible confusion by said mod.

Quote:
And I fully refuted almost everything in that article with actual facts. But that post vanished.

That's what I thought.
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post #174 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

And I fully refuted almost everything in that article with actual facts. But that post vanished.

And I called the author of said article a "lier." I actually mispelled the word liar, no word trickery involved, I simply mispelled a word.

The mod did not understand who I was calling a liar, not you, but the author of said article, thus my refutation of said facts with actual facts vanished.

I received a 10-day ban for not being more explicit in who exactly I was calling a liar.

The last time I received a 10-day ban was for reposting just the factual information from a previous post of mine in another thread that vanished, as I was accused of reposting verbatim what the mod had originally removed. Nothing could have been further from the truth. Those facts also vanished.

I'm now in shutdown mode.

I've turned off all the options possible in the user CP.

My own PO rulez now are the following;

1) Never report posts from others for any reason. You see, I'm an adult and 100% skin deep.
2) Ignore the mod completely. In other words, whatever they do, I don't whine or complain, I simply move on.
3) I expect my posts to vanish without a moment's hesitation (like this one will be, I'm sure), just like random events that occur in nature.
4) Don't place anyone ever on an ignore list, as far as I'm concerned ignore lists don't exist.
5) Discussion, discourse, dialog, and then finally debate. In that order. However, since the trend in PO appears to be to present just half the data or argument, I have had to adjust accordingly. Two can play at that game.
6) Make sure all ad hominem attacks are directed at those who are not in PO, and to be very explicit in those attacks, to avoid any possible confusion by said mod.

Revisionist history aside Frank, the ad-homing a source doesn't disprove it. The point is essentially that you ad-homed the source instead of the poster of the source and this is by your own admission. Confusing it for me might have gotten you banned but it is a logical fallacy regardless.

Back to the topic of Boomers.....

http://www.cepr.net/

Quote:
The study, "The Wealth of the Baby Boom Cohorts After the Collapse of the Housing Bubble," finds that net worth for near retirees ages 45 to 54 and ages 55 to 64 has declined at a rapid pace since 2004 and many of these households will have little wealth to rely on in their retirement other than Social Security and Medicare. Data from the report was submitted as part of Dean Baker's testimony before committees in both the House and Senate this week.

Here is a little bit of fun from the abstract....

Quote:
This analysis indicates that the loss of wealth due to the collapse of the housing bubble and the plunge in the stock market will make the baby boomers far more dependent on Social Security and Medicare than prior generations. While it will be desirable to develop more secure mechanisms for workers to save for retirement in the future, the baby boom generation for the most part has insufficient time remaining before retirement to accumulate substantial savings. Therefore, they will be largely dependent on social insurance programs to support them in retirement.


The stake through the heart....

Quote:
However, there is a second important factor that also leads to a decline in wealth for this age cohort between 2004 and 2009. As a result of the bubble-inflated values of their homes, tens of millions of families opted not to save during what would typically be their peak saving years. The age cohort that is age 45 to 54 in 2009 was between the ages of 40 and 49 in 2004. Ordinarily these are peak saving years in which families add considerably to their lifetime wealth.

By assumption, families in these projections did not save during this period, reflecting the near zero
level of savings nationally. This assumption will of course not be exactly accurate, although it is not
clear in which direction the error will go. The families in this age cohort are disproportionately
homeowners and therefore more likely than the population as a whole to have not saved or to have
borrowed based on the equity in their home. In short, it is entirely possible that the homeowners in
this group engaged in dissaving over this period, as they were content to allow the bubble-driven
build-up of wealth in the form of home equity to substitute for savings out of disposable income.


Whatever turns out to be the case about the actual behavior of the homeowners in this age cohort,
the basic point is straightforward. Workers have a limited number of years during their lifetime in
which they can accumulate wealth toward retirement. If they save little or nothing during a
substantial portion of these years because they expect wealth generated by a bubble to persist and
grow further, then they are likely to find themselves ill-prepared for retirement when the bubble
bursts.

Boomers are broken and their mindset and policies are doing the same for the country. Obama is the epitome of this mentality. He takes the right platitudes and double speak and wraps the lies up in them. The kids of the boomers already recognize this. We were the ones who heard about how "quality time" would be the same as "quantity time", how "nothing would change" when Mom and Dad divorced, etc. We've been hearing the bullshit for years.

They will leave the country just as they have their own personal finances, an empty hollowed out and broken lie that is valueless.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #175 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Revisionist history aside Frank, the ad-homing a source doesn't disprove it. The point is essentially that you ad-homed the source instead of the poster of the source and this is by your own admission. Confusing it for me might have gotten you banned but it is a logical fallacy regardless.

Back to the topic of Boomers.....

http://www.cepr.net/



Here is a little bit of fun from the abstract....




The stake through the heart....



Boomers are broken and their mindset and policies are doing the same for the country. Obama is the epitome of this mentality. He takes the right platitudes and double speak and wraps the lies up in them. The kids of the boomers already recognize this. We were the ones who heard about how "quality time" would be the same as "quantity time", how "nothing would change" when Mom and Dad divorced, etc. We've been hearing the bullshit for years.

They will leave the country just as they have their own personal finances, an empty hollowed out and broken lie that is valueless.


Gosh! it's almost like you've created your own little hate group isn't it?
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post #176 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Gosh! it's almost like you've created your own little hate group isn't it?

Its not that we hate the baby boomers - its just that we are tired of paying their way. Baby boomers are kind of like Quebec - a giant tax dollar vacuum cleaner. Every penny I pay into medicare and social security is a direct subsidy of the boomer generation, and I will never see that money back. The reason that I will never see that money back is that the boomer generation paid the bare minimum in payroll taxes to support their outnumbered parents (i.e. they will pull way more money out than they put in, bankrupting the system).
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post #177 of 452
Thread Starter 
And to add to that, when they were paying less in, they didn't save it, pay down their houses with it, or use it to create a government surplus, instead they ran up the tab on all three and now want the kids and grandkids to bail them out.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #178 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Revisionist history aside Frank, the ad-homing a source doesn't disprove it. The point is essentially that you ad-homed the source instead of the poster of the source and this is by your own admission. Confusing it for me might have gotten you banned but it is a logical fallacy regardless.

I refuted said author's "facts" with real actual facts.

The only reason I did not re-post those actual facts, is that I would have likely received a 10-day ban for reposting "verbatim."

Everyone here understands the game being played here.

After the refuting of said author's "facts," I called the author a "lier."

The author of said article was, and is, a liar.

PO sukz big time now.

AI should just delete PO and put everything into AO.

Traffic in AO/PO has gone down by at least an order of magnitude.

And somehow, that makes me extremely happy!
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post #179 of 452
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #180 of 452
This boomers stuff is absolutely rediculous!
The only thing that's certain is following generations will blame older generations for anything they don't like too, like slavery.
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post #181 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

This boomers stuff is absolutely rediculous!
The only thing that's certain is following generations will blame older generations for anything they don't like too, like slavery.

I can see gangs of younger people running around killing old folks.

Hey, they even made a movie of it, back in 1976, even then the Boomers knew what their fate would ultimately be.

Death at the hands of younger people.

It's called Logan's Run.
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post #182 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

This boomers stuff is absolutely rediculous!
The only thing that's certain is following generations will blame older generations for anything they don't like too, like slavery.

This is different, this is a math problem (pay less in taxes, pull more money out than you put in, etc). When it is a math problem, there is a lot less room to argue that one side is subjectively wrong.

There is absolutely no doubt that the baby boomer generation destroyed our social safety blanket by failing to put enough money into the funds via payroll taxes.

Really, this isn't a problem with the baby boomers, per say. It is a problem with the combination of Democracy and the structure of SS and Medicare. It just does not work to have one generation pay for the previous one, because when you have a baby boom the basic greedy nature of humanity causes the baby boom to pay as little as possible at the moment, forgetting that they are screwing up their whole countries future.

The baby boomers had a lot of votes, combined with very few parents, so they voted themselves the bare minimum of payroll taxes - and now are voting themselves a much larger share of my paycheck to make up for the money that they spent on drugs, cigars and BMWs in their youth.
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post #183 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

I can see gangs of younger people running around killing old folks.

Hey, they even made a movie of it, back in 1976, even then the Boomers knew what their fate would ultimately be.

Death at the hands of younger people.

It's called Logan's Run.

This is simply terrible. They must have figured it all out in there younger days. They've built these damn camps to send the 30 yrs old to, whilst enslaving the younger one's with there lavish and wreckless spending debts into eternity. How twisted!
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post #184 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

I can see gangs of younger people running around killing old folks.

Hey, they even made a movie of it, back in 1976, even then the Boomers knew what their fate would ultimately be.

Death at the hands of younger people.

It's called Logan's Run.

Don't worry Frank. I'm sure you'll be one of the people who get to renew in Carousel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

This is different, this is a math problem (pay less in taxes, pull more money out than you put in, etc). When it is a math problem, there is a lot less room to argue that one side is subjectively wrong.

There is absolutely no doubt that the baby boomer generation destroyed our social safety blanket by failing to put enough money into the funds via payroll taxes.

Really, this isn't a problem with the baby boomers, per say. It is a problem with the combination of Democracy and the structure of SS and Medicare. It just does not work to have one generation pay for the previous one, because when you have a baby boom the basic greedy nature of humanity causes the baby boom to pay as little as possible at the moment, forgetting that they are screwing up their whole countries future.

The baby boomers had a lot of votes, combined with very few parents, so they voted themselves the bare minimum of payroll taxes - and now are voting themselves a much larger share of my paycheck to make up for the money that they spent on drugs, cigars and BMWs in their youth.

Bingo, bango, bongo. The man wins a handrolled cigar rolled by his great grandchildren but charged to today.

Don't worry though... it's stimulus which as a label allows us to suspend all reason and judgement.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #185 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

This is different, this is a math problem (pay less in taxes, pull more money out than you put in, etc). When it is a math problem, there is a lot less room to argue that one side is subjectively wrong.

There is absolutely no doubt that the baby boomer generation destroyed our social safety blanket by failing to put enough money into the funds via payroll taxes.

Really, this isn't a problem with the baby boomers, per say. It is a problem with the combination of Democracy and the structure of SS and Medicare. It just does not work to have one generation pay for the previous one, because when you have a baby boom the basic greedy nature of humanity causes the baby boom to pay as little as possible at the moment, forgetting that they are screwing up their whole countries future.

The baby boomers had a lot of votes, combined with very few parents, so they voted themselves the bare minimum of payroll taxes - and now are voting themselves a much larger share of my paycheck to make up for the money that they spent on drugs, cigars and BMWs in their youth.

Bullshit!

The Boomers didn't decide the payroll tax rates. Clinton raised tax rates, and Bush 43 lowered them.

The final tax rate changes in SS and Medicare took place in 1986, I believe.

Reagan was president then, and there were few if any Boomers in the legislature at that time. Reagan lowered tax rates.

Between Reagan, Bush 41, and Bush 43 we went from $1 trillion in gross public debt to over $11 trillion in gross public debt.
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post #186 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Bullshit!

The Boomers didn't decide the payroll tax rates. Clinton raised tax rates, and Bush 43 lowered them.

The final tax rate changes in SS and Medicare took place in 1986, I believe.

Reagan was president then, and there were few if any Boomers in the legislature at that time. Reagan lowered tax rates.

Between Reagan, Bush 41, and Bush 43 we went from $1 trillion in gross public debt to over $11 trillion in gross public debt.

No, everything you just posted looks like it was wrong.

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/taxRates.html

The boomers may not have been congressmen, but they were voters. And they paid a very light tax in the first half of their working lives (6-7% total, compared to 15% now, and 25%? in the future). And the gross national debt comment is totally off topic, which is normal for you (baffle them with bs - the normal MO for your posts).
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post #187 of 452
Quote:
These projections should highlight the importance of policies that combat financial bubbles. The policy of the Fed during the last decade—that financial bubbles should just be let to run their coursevirtually guarantees that tens of millions of people will reach retirement with little or nothing to support themselves in retirement other than their Social Security.

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Finally, these projections should make clear that homeownership is not always an effective way to accumulate wealth. Homeownership during a housing bubble was a route toward losing wealth, not accumulating it. While typical homeowners cannot be blamed for not recognizing the bubble, the economists and policy professionals who designed policies that pushed homeownership certainly can and should be blamed.

From the CEPR paper.
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post #188 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

No, everything you just posted looks like it was wrong.

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/taxRates.html

The boomers may not have been congressmen, but they were voters. And they paid a very light tax in the first half of their working lives (6-7% total, compared to 15% now, and 25%? in the future). And the gross national debt comment is totally off topic, which is normal for you (baffle them with bs - the normal MO for your posts).

Bullshit!

The legislation was passed in 1986.

Like all things it was gradually increased over a few years, in this case four years (by 1990).

D'oh!

Republicans controlled the Executive or Legislative Branches for 26 of the past 28 years.

I wonder why these taxes weren't raised during those years subsequent to 1990?

Answer, Republicans didn't want to do it.
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post #189 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Bullshit!

And that counteracts my point (that baby boomers paid less to social security than they are taking out) in what way exactly?
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post #190 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Bullshit!

The Boomers didn't decide the payroll tax rates. Clinton raised tax rates, and Bush 43 lowered them.

The final tax rate changes in SS and Medicare took place in 1986, I believe.

Reagan was president then, and there were few if any Boomers in the legislature at that time. Reagan lowered tax rates.

Between Reagan, Bush 41, and Bush 43 we went from $1 trillion in gross public debt to over $11 trillion in gross public debt.

It would be very interesting to look at this from a sociological perspective. We don't really have generational accounting (we should) but if we did it might really alter the way the election of several of these folks is accounted for with regard to conventional wisdom.

Looking at the generational angle, the whole Republican uprising wouldn't be a protest against civil rights, a culture war or anything like that. It would simply be the boomers entering their prime earning years (those born in 1950 would 30 in 1980) and voting for whoever would let them keep the most of their money. Now that boomers are getting close to retirement, it would be time to go vote for someone who is going to try to reinflate their retirement savings and then raise the income tax rates when they are no longer earning income.

An analysis of the national debt shows that a good chunk of it is inter-government debt, owed from one part of the government to the other. This is how the boomers spent their own "Social Security Savings" but actually turned it into debt that the kids must repay. You call the collected monies that are more than are necessary to pay for their own parents a "surplus" and spend it but write yourself an IOU on it that the kids must repay.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #191 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

And that counteracts my point (that baby boomers paid less to social security than they are taking out) in what way exactly?

Everyone has paid in less than they got out from the get go.

So you see it's all people you need to bitch at, not just the age demographic immediately above yours.

D'oh!
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post #192 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It would be very interesting to look at this from a sociological perspective. We don't really have generational accounting (we should) but if we did it might really alter the way the election of several of these folks is accounted for with regard to conventional wisdom.

Looking at the generational angle, the whole Republican uprising wouldn't be a protest against civil rights, a culture war or anything like that. It would simply be the boomers entering their prime earning years (those born in 1950 would 30 in 1980) and voting for whoever would let them keep the most of their money. Now that boomers are getting close to retirement, it would be time to go vote for someone who is going to try to reinflate their retirement savings and then raise the income tax rates when they are no longer earning income.

An analysis of the national debt shows that a good chunk of it is inter-government debt, owed from one part of the government to the other. This is how the boomers spent their own "Social Security Savings" but actually turned it into debt that the kids must repay. You call the collected monies that are more than are necessary to pay for their own parents a "surplus" and spend it but write yourself an IOU on it that the kids must repay.

And like I replied above, it's always been that way.

I'm not saying it's right by any means though.
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post #193 of 452
Bush wanted to privatize SS by guess what, investing in the stock market.

He wanted to do this at a time when the stock market was trading at (or near) an all time high.

The Democrats would have none of that.

Now the stock market has lost 50% of that previous high.

The Democrats were right from the get go.

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post #194 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Everyone has paid in less than they got out from the get go.

Not me. I have paid in the max since 1993 (when I moved here from Canada), and I expect to receive ZERO after the boomers snort that SS cocaine up their noses. I don't mind the taxes I paid in Canada, because at least I got good medical care there for my money.
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post #195 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Not me. I have paid in the max since 1993 (when I moved here from Canada), and I expect to receive ZERO after the boomers snort that SS cocaine up their noses. I don't mind the taxes I paid in Canada, because at least I got good medical care there for my money.

Wild conjecture, at this point.

The Boomers didn't invent SS, BTW.
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post #196 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Wild conjecture, at this point.

No, actuarial math, at this point. Unless they jack up payroll taxes, in which case I still get less money than I put in.
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post #197 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

No, actuarial math, at this point. Unless they jack up payroll taxes, in which case I still get less money than I put in.

Then you are the one exception to the rule.

Death and taxes.

Go figure.

You would have also received much less than you paid in under Bush 43's privatization Ponzi scheme.

Note also, that the taxes you have paid to date have gone to those who are not Boomers.

So maybe you should be blaming them, or the entire American populous, in general.
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post #198 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Its not that we hate the baby boomers - its just that we are tired of paying their way. Baby boomers are kind of like Quebec - a giant tax dollar vacuum cleaner. Every penny I pay into medicare and social security is a direct subsidy of the boomer generation, and I will never see that money back. The reason that I will never see that money back is that the boomer generation paid the bare minimum in payroll taxes to support their outnumbered parents (i.e. they will pull way more money out than they put in, bankrupting the system).


You know what we're tired of? Whiney little kids who think everything is their parent's fault and that the world owes them a living. Kids that haven't a clue as to what it's like to drive lousey check the gas and fill it up with oil junkers as their first car until they can afford something better. Something better that's years down the road in savings or getting a loan to afford. And now you watch as parents buy something for them as their first car that resembles something they had as 5 or 6th car!

Kids that also just go to college because their parents saved for it all during their childhood. Those savings also went toward their medical expenses and everything that could give them the chance to be a fine adult. Kids for the last 30 years have had it much better than we ever could dream of. For the most part they are the healthiest, best educated generation ever! And do you know what? they still whine!

Now I realize that not everybody fits this demgraphic but more do than not. You know that and if not just look around. I also realize they have new challenges that we did not. But every generation has challenges. They're just different. We had the bomb you have terrorists. We had polio you have aids etc.

I just thought as long as you were dealing in stereotypes I would also. And by the way the thing with SS started a long time before I was an adult. As I've stated before my mom worked for SS for 25 years and when I was a kid she was telling me " Don't count on it. It's rotten from the core out and by the time it comes for you to claim it probably won't be there. " We're talking the late 60's.

And if you're implying that the kids now days are more frugal

Thgere are plenty of kids out there right now ruining their life with credit cards just like their parents did so knock off the holier than thou crap.

It's human nature to make mistakes. There's just more of us than you. That doesn't make you better or more deserving.

I hate too break it to you but we all played a part in getting here. The incredibly poor republican leadership of the last 8 years just helped to bring about trouble more quickly than it would have eventually come.
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post #199 of 452
I didn't play a part in getting us here - all I did is throw payroll taxes down a hole. Jimmac - your whole post is off topic. I'm not saying that we are more frugal than boomers, just that we are getting stuck with their restaurant tab.

We have a surplus in the SS account - the baby boomers didn't put enough in, so they are going to suck that surplus dry (plus put it way into debt) before I retire. If they had put enough in, then the surplus would have been enough so that SS would still be solvent when the boomers are all dead - but they didn't. Compounding the problem of "boomers didn't put in enough money" is the earlier retirement, longer life spans, and more expensive medical costs. Now I am going to have to pay through the nose to keep all these grasshoppers alive, so much so that my generation will not be able to save for our own retirement.

This is such a simple situation I don't know why we are even talking about it. An entire generation screwed up our social safety net, and now you (one of that generation) is trying to guilt trip us by saying "but we paid for your college and cars!". You didn't pay for my college or cars.
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post #200 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I didn't play a part in getting us here - all I did is throw payroll taxes down a hole. Jimmac - your whole post is off topic. I'm not saying that we are more frugal than boomers, just that we are getting stuck with their restaurant tab.

We have a surplus in the SS account - the baby boomers didn't put enough in, so they are going to suck that surplus dry (plus put it way into debt) before I retire. If they had put enough in, then the surplus would have been enough so that SS would still be solvent when the boomers are all dead - but they didn't. Compounding the problem of "boomers didn't put in enough money" is the earlier retirement, longer life spans, and more expensive medical costs. Now I am going to have to pay through the nose to keep all these grasshoppers alive, so much so that my generation will not be able to save for our own retirement.

This is such a simple situation I don't know why we are even talking about it. An entire generation screwed up our social safety net, and now you (one of that generation) is trying to guilt trip us by saying "but we paid for your college and cars!". You didn't pay for my college or cars.

Quote:
Jimmac - your whole post is off topic.

If that's true then yours is also.

If you're going to talk about this then stop using stereotypes! The rest is bullshit. I just lost a good deal of my retirement anuity to this ecomomic crisis and so did a lot of my coworkers so please don't whine to me.


Where was good ol Dubya when this was happening? Oh I forgot he's a boomer so he can be the enemy now because it's ok.

Quote:
Now I am going to have to pay through the nose to keep all these grasshoppers alive,

And what are your kids going to say about keeping you alive?

Do you own a credit card? Did you ever owe more than a few months on it? Then you played a part as much as the rest of us.

Is all of your debt paid up? If so you're very different from the norm of any recent generation.

Also as I've said but apparently your ears are shut this problem with SS started before I was a working adult so who are you going to blame now?

SS should never have been barrowed from for anything for any reason. That was it's orginal purpose but for some leaders it was a means to an end. Far too often.

We all played a part in this. Sorry you don't get off the hook either.

Get real!
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