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The Generational Blind Spot-BOOM! - Page 10

post #361 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I would love anyone to explain to me when exactly AI went through a "Rally around George W. Bush" phase, in or around the year 2000

What you reference was created (and became a long running theme -that you either support the killing of innocent Iraqi's for Oil, or you are an unpatriotic American) by a good fundie friend of your NaplesX. You might remember him, he was the one who claimed that the Abu Graib prison tortures by US servicemen was just like "college hazing".

I seem to remember that model conservative pleading with us that once a politician has been elected president, we should put aside our differences and rally behind the president to get the job done - (and a few more Iraqis tortured to death presumably).

Thats why its fucking great to be MarcUK, I remember 'EVERYTHING', its spooky...
post #362 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by nordkapp View Post

What you reference was created (and became a long running theme -that you either support the killing of innocent Iraqi's for Oil, or you are an unpatriotic American) by a good fundie friend of your NaplesX. You might remember him, he was the one who claimed that the Abu Graib prison tortures by US servicemen was just like "college hazing".

I seem to remember that model conservative pleading with us that once a politician has been elected president, we should put aside our differences and rally behind the president to get the job done - (and a few more Iraqis tortured to death presumably).

Thats why its fucking great to be MarcUK, I remember 'EVERYTHING', its spooky...

I remember Naples as well. Spaceman Spiff, Applenut, Scott etc. There were quite a few that rose up in their rightous indignation over anyone questioning the president.

By the way you were wondering if a certain memeber's post were still there? Here's a lilttle valuable insight from that same person :

Quote:
Let me give you another scenario. The U.S. and other troops go in and rid the world of Saddam within about 10 days. With the tyranny of Saddam gone the information rolls out about plans for biochemical and gas attacks from those who could not reveal information before at threat of death not only to themselves, but anyone even attached to their geneology.

The world, is amazed as the U.S, as they did after WWII shows Iraq how to rebuild itself using the resources it has available.

All is well and the naysayers are wrong again. Knowing this and having the uncertainty resolved the U.S. economy gets a bit of a bump and is rolling along at 3% as the 2004 elections roll around and Bush is re-elected.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=12970

Well he got one thing right!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #363 of 452
When "Blame it on your parents (but not mine)" doesn't work, what will the next manufactured outrage be?
post #364 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by screener View Post


what a jack ass.

Lets not be too Liberal about this!

Lets just attribute that to the entire Right Wing - not content with fucking up the lives of millions of people across the Middle East and Afghanistan (because they had visions of UPSIDE), they then turn their crosshairs on their own Nation and declare it is all the fault of the sick and elderly (because they have visions of UPSIDE)

(Which would be nice if they hadn't run the sick and elderly for election) - Perhaps its subconsciously just deflected outrage at their own party for McCain's obvious failings. Perhaps its just....

Anything for the upside™

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship

BULLSHIT NICK

STOP TWISTING THE FACTS NICK

PLEASE for God's SAKE

STOP telling lies to us

Stop fooling yourself.

If you can't for some reason you need to get yourself to a doctor.
post #365 of 452
Thread Starter 
Seems that self created boomer bomb delusion is imploding like most other things they have tried.

As the article notes the problem is two-fold....

Quote:
The Social Security "trust fund," you'll recall, isn't a trust fund at all. It's just another source of annual government financing and a future liability. Today's receipts are used to pay current payments to retirees and, in the case of a surplus, whatever else the government is spending money on. As the Social Security surplus shrinks, therefore, the government loses a source of funding. If it wants to keep spending at its planned rate, it therefore has to borrow the difference.

When Social Security goes into deficit, meanwhile, the government will have to borrow even more money to pay current SS recipients. Chris Martenson:

From a budget-busting perspective, last year where the US government had a $73 billion Social Security surplus to spend, this year it will be a paltry $16 billion and next year it will be a number indistinguishable from zero. It is hard to overstate the importance of this shift.

This means several things. Instead of $703 billion coming in over the next 10 years, the current (overly optimistic) projection calls for only $83 billion. This means at least another $620 billion in fresh borrowing will have to occur.

As one of my favorite articles notes, America is not post anything.

This week Robert Samuelson notes that the narcissistic and delusional utopianism will be followed to the bitter end in the Obama administration where we will have the "post-material" economy.

Quote:
Since the dawn of the Industrial Age, this has been simple: produce more with less. ("Productivity," in economic jargon.) Mass markets developed for clothes, cars, computers and much more because declining costs expanded production. Living standards rose. By contrast, the logic of the "post-material economy" is just the opposite: spend more and get less.

Finally....

Quote:
What defines the "post-material economy" is a growing willingness to sacrifice money income for psychic income -- "feeling good." Some people may gladly pay higher energy prices if they think they're "saving the planet" from global warming. Some may accept higher taxes if they think they're improving the health or education of the poor. Unfortunately, these psychic benefits may be based on fantasies. What if U.S. cuts in greenhouse gases are offset by Chinese increases? What if more health insurance produces only modest gains in people's health?

Economic policies based on fantasies. That sounds like utopian socialism to me.

Narcissism+Utopianism= The belief that they are post-reality aka the boomer blind-spot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #366 of 452
My head is left spinning after reading a few of those articles, especially after checking up on some of the authors' previous articles.

It seems like Hanson is using the carpet bombing approach. I can't really tell what he's trying to get at other than everything sucks and it is all getting worse by the second. While I agree with some of what he's saying, every other sentence seems to stem from a world view that I don't share. Sometimes it even happens in one sentence. For instance:
Quote:
It must be ready to pay off generations of debt rather than borrow, build rather than sue, and drill rather than whine.

Sure, I'm all for fiscal responsibility and less litigation, but what's this about drilling rather than whining? That sentence alone would require a bunch of discussion. The merit of drilling for oil in various locations is quite a complicated subject, and one that seems fairly separate from whether or not america is "not post anything".

When whole articles are made up of such sentences, replying is difficult if not impossible. Even the title of the article demonstrates the shotgun approach to debating, "America Is Not a Post-Anything". What does that mean? That the economy, society, the world in general, hasn't changed one bit? It kinda comes across as everyone is wrong about everything. Which I suppose is a valid assertion, but one that is rather difficult to debate. Perhaps debate wasn't the intended outcome. Maybe he just wants everyone to reanalyze their world view. There's nothing wrong with that, but I'm already doing that without throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
post #367 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

My head is left spinning after reading a few of those articles, especially after checking up on some of the authors' previous articles.

It seems like Hanson is using the carpet bombing approach. I can't really tell what he's trying to get at other than everything sucks and it is all getting worse by the second. While I agree with some of what he's saying, every other sentence seems to stem from a world view that I don't share. Sometimes it even happens in one sentence. For instance:
Sure, I'm all for fiscal responsibility and less litigation, but what's this about drilling rather than whining? That sentence alone would require a bunch of discussion. The merit of drilling for oil in various locations is quite a complicated subject, and one that seems fairly separate from whether or not america is "not post anything".

When whole articles are made up of such sentences, replying is difficult if not impossible. Even the title of the article demonstrates the shotgun approach to debating, "America Is Not a Post-Anything". What does that mean? That the economy, society, the world in general, hasn't changed one bit? It kinda comes across as everyone is wrong about everything. Which I suppose is a valid assertion, but one that is rather difficult to debate. Perhaps debate wasn't the intended outcome. Maybe he just wants everyone to reanalyze their world view. There's nothing wrong with that, but I'm already doing that without throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Great reply...

So what does it mean when the author declares America is not post-anything? I would suggest that simply put, it means we are not above the considerations of reality and the trade-offs of what we can accomplish now versus in the future.

He starts off with this sentence...

In the last 20 years, we were lectured constantly about "post-industrial" America.

The most recent rendition of this is noted in the second article. When we ask about what might happen to blue collar jobs and we are told they will be replaced with green collar jobs with no real proof that this can happen. When asked what we need to do to take care of our growing energy needs we are told check our tire inflation and conserve. The answer is almost never, create more energy.

I say this as someone who has watched wind projects get stopped off Cape Cod and solar projects held up in the Mojave Desert. Nuclear gets stopped as well. We decry fossil fuels as dirty but feel better about it when we "export" the problem by buying from the world instead of creating solutions here. We want the perfect solution and won't tolerate anything that is transitional.

So to counter this I note that Canada and Denmark can exploit their natural resources AND use them to provide universal health care. Wouldn't that be a worthy trade-off as an example? However in the post-world.. there are no trade offs because there are no rules save for one, we are above the rules and consequences. We will quickly learn that isn't so. We can't wish energy into existence. Many other countries make the trade-offs we declare ourselves to somehow be above. France uses nuclear on a scale unprecedented compared to us as another example. Why is it that we are above all solutions save those that, by politically correct standards, have basically a zero footprint? Why are no other countries so badly tied up? Why can the UK put up massive wind installations, France get 70% of it's energy from nuclear, etc and why can we appear to do none of those things?

In the meantime many of these tie ups are costing us wealth and money. We will buy from others what we cannot bare to believe we should handle here. Oil from others, products and food from others because here we cannot accomplish something until it can be done perfectly.

The last couple bubbles and crashes have (in my view) been attempts to leverage our way out of our problems using what little growth and productivity we have left and attempting to multiply the result with other people's money. It didn't work. No one is above the rules.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #368 of 452
"Not in my backyard" isn't new though, right? And it certainly isn't limited to America. I think we're just more aware of the battles here because of proximity. For instance, France hasn't figured out what to do with its nuclear waste yet. They're still arguing on where to put it when the temporary storage fill up.

Also, I wouldn't portray America as doing comparatively badly in terms of energy. Don't we have good prices compared to most other similar markets / economies? Not to say that the situation is good, but rather that others haven't dealt so well with it either.

But really, I'm not sure how to comment on this in relation to everything else the author slings at the same time. So many controversial assertions are tacked onto every other sentence, that unless you agree with the author's world view, it just comes across as unsubstantiated and chaotic.

There's certainly a place for that type of across the board propagandizing and editorializing. Bundling the entire thing into a single discussion in a venue such as this, I'm not sure we'll make any headway while batting around between all the different ideas.
post #369 of 452

This "article" is somewhat misleading (also their "link" isn't directly to the CBO, and as is, is broken (at least in my browser IE7 Vista x64 Ultimate)).

These numbers don't include interest paid into OASDI, which varies from $119B in FY09 to $171B in FY19.

CBO Budget Projections

Note, that all OASDI projected numbers are down when compared to recent, but earlier OASDI projections (01-2007 thru 01-2009 per CBO link above).
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #370 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

"Not in my backyard" isn't new though, right? And it certainly isn't limited to America. I think we're just more aware of the battles here because of proximity. For instance, France hasn't figured out what to do with its nuclear waste yet. They're still arguing on where to put it when the temporary storage fill up.

Also, I wouldn't portray America as doing comparatively badly in terms of energy. Don't we have good prices compared to most other similar markets / economies? Not to say that the situation is good, but rather that others haven't dealt so well with it either.

But really, I'm not sure how to comment on this in relation to everything else the author slings at the same time. So many controversial assertions are tacked onto every other sentence, that unless you agree with the author's world view, it just comes across as unsubstantiated and chaotic.

There's certainly a place for that type of across the board propagandizing and editorializing. Bundling the entire thing into a single discussion in a venue such as this, I'm not sure we'll make any headway while batting around between all the different ideas.

I think not in my backyard is new when the proclaimed solutions are supposed to be zero footprint and still people don't want them for assorted reasons. We all could understand not wanting to have a coal power plant next door. However a tortoise is the reason solar is being held up in the Mojave Desert. Many of the claims for NIMBY off cape cod are expressed as environmental concerns with regard to wind power as well and certainly no one has a "yard" out as far as they are going to put these.

You give a great example with France. They have problems they are still solving but they aren't doing nothing in the meantime. They are generating power for 70% of the people and NOT funding terrorism or sending their wealth overseas to the degree we are doing.

We have good prices but a large part of that is due to the dollar as reserve currency. When watching "This Week" on Sunday, I saw the boomer-blindspot as well articulated as I have ever seen it. You had this group sitting there, Krugman, Gingrich, etc. and they are all talking about how as our country won't be in trouble with regard to national deficits until they hit at least 100% of GDP. They cited as examples ARGENTINA. I don't think the world will tolerate the reserve currency of the world acting no different than countries that have been known to hyper-inflate their way out of problems. The rules are different for a reason.

The article does cover a lot but it is just an editorial column. It has to fit a space and a certain number of words. I'd be more than happy to discuss longer form articles or even books that are in this area of interest.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #371 of 452
Thread Starter 
Ultimate Generational Bummer

Quite a condemning read....and some choice bits....

Quote:
The numbers show a genuinely frightening gap between what people have saved for retirement and what they will need. And many of these studies don't take into account last year's stock market crash, which will make the problem worse..........

Quote:
How bad are baby boomers at financial planning? Extremely bad, according to Annamaria Lusardi and Olivia Mitchell of the National Bureau of Economic Research. They found that more than one-quarter of boomer households thought "hardly at all" about retirement, and that financial literacy among boomers was "alarmingly low." Half could not do a simple math calculation (divide $2 million by 5) and fewer than 20 percent could calculate compound interest. The NBER researchers also found that, as of 2004, the typical boomer household was holding nearly half its wealth in the form of housing equity. Uh-oh.

Quote:
OK, for households headed by persons between the ages of 55 and 64, the median value of all retirement accounts was just $100,000. Purcell noted that for a 65-year-old man retiring in April 2009, that $100,000 would buy an annuity that would pay a paltry $700 a month for life, based on current interest rates.

Quote:
What's going to happen? Certainly, people will try to save more. But my guess, knowing my generational cohort, is that we'll want a government bailout to supplement our too-meager retirement savings. Unfortunately, the Treasury won't have enough money to fund our Medicare benefits, let alone a top-up in Social Security.

Look following generations... we know we didn't save for retirement, spent the Social Security "surplus" and also are in the midst of tripling the nation debt while bailing out everything so we can still have a job. Could you do us a favor and then bail us out even more?

You have to laugh, otherwise you would cry.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #372 of 452
The inability to retire will indeed be sad for millions of people.

But pinning this on a particular generation seems like faulty logic. The whole concept of retirement is quite new. It isn't like generation upon generation got it right only to be fowled up by the boomers. Very few generations from any civilization throughout human history have been able to retire.

And even those that did manage to retire found "retirement" to mean something quite different than what we expect now. Typically it meant living with your extended family and taking on responsibility for many of the chores for everyone living in the home. Basically the elderly went to work for their extended families because families can be more lenient toward the limitations of age.

Perhaps the entire concept of what we now consider to be "retirement" is flawed. Kicking back and doing no work for a couple decades sure would be nice. But it may be a pipe dream, attainable only briefly by imperialistic and otherwise temporarily advantaged empires.
post #373 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

The inability to retire will indeed be sad for millions of people.

But pinning this on a particular generation seems like faulty logic. The whole concept of retirement is quite new. It isn't like generation upon generation got it right only to be fowled up by the boomers. Very few generations from any civilization throughout human history have been able to retire.

And even those that did manage to retire found "retirement" to mean something quite different than what we expect now. Typically it meant living with your extended family and taking on responsibility for many of the chores for everyone living in the home. Basically the elderly went to work for their extended families because families can be more lenient toward the limitations of age.

Perhaps the entire concept of what we now consider to be "retirement" is flawed. Kicking back and doing no work for a couple decades sure would be nice. But it may be a pipe dream, attainable only briefly by imperialistic and otherwise temporarily advantaged empires.


Actually you've hit the nail on the head. Retirement has been very different for quite some time. Most people I know do opt for working part time. The one's that don't I've seen ending up in the obituary column not too long after. There's something about work that keeps you going it seems. Even those who don't work become involved in something.

My father was a diabetic and took early retirement at 64 only to die later that year. My mom on the other hand retired and kept involved in community things, classes, and a boyfriend ( she was 84 and he was 86 at the end ). So you never know. But I think it's a big mistake to expect to just do nothing. Some people travel but these days it takes alot of money to do that. Sitting around the house doesn't seem too attractive and a likely shortcut to the graveyard.

Most people I've known keep working in one form or another. A lady I know from a past job I had kept working into her 70's. Health is a big issue. I turn 56 on Sunday ( I'm even getting a 20 year award at work on Friday ). I feel pretty good now however how will I feel at 65? Right now the plan is to go to 67 and then see what I can do at that point. If I can still work I'm probably going to try ( at least part time ). I know a few older people that have had enough money built up to travel but they're definitely in the minority.

One of my friends is in a wheelchair ( Polio in grade school ). He's a year younger than me and plans on retiring in 4 years. Given his physical issues I can understand. He says money may be a bit tight but his kids are grown and on their own now so things aren't as expensive.

I think for the most part the dream of retirement ( doing nothing at all ) was something people did a couple of generations ago. And they didn't live as long or in as good health as us.

If I had the money to retire and travel would I? Sure. But I'd make sure I stayed active doing something.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #374 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

The inability to retire will indeed be sad for millions of people.

But pinning this on a particular generation seems like faulty logic. The whole concept of retirement is quite new. It isn't like generation upon generation got it right only to be fowled up by the boomers. Very few generations from any civilization throughout human history have been able to retire.

And even those that did manage to retire found "retirement" to mean something quite different than what we expect now. Typically it meant living with your extended family and taking on responsibility for many of the chores for everyone living in the home. Basically the elderly went to work for their extended families because families can be more lenient toward the limitations of age.

Perhaps the entire concept of what we now consider to be "retirement" is flawed. Kicking back and doing no work for a couple decades sure would be nice. But it may be a pipe dream, attainable only briefly by imperialistic and otherwise temporarily advantaged empires.

I'll note that I agree 100% with what you say. That doesn't mean the boomers won't bankrupt the country attempting to be the last one through the gate with regard to that advantaged empire. They've already spent all the wealth, leveraged out their lives and won't want to change the end of their lives.

tick...tick...tick.....

Time is ticking away for the boomers.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #375 of 452
Thread Starter 
Tick, tick, tick

Maybe President Obama is a little smarter than we all give him credit for being.

Quote:
At a town hall meeting at AARP headquarters in Washington, D.C., President Obama was asked by a woman from North Carolina if it was true "that everyone that's Medicare age will be visited and told they have to decide how they wish to die."

At first, the president joked that not enough government workers existed to ask the elderly how they wanted to die. The idea, he said, was to encourage the use of living wills and that critics were misrepresenting the intent of the "end of life" counseling provided for in the House bill. He did not say, "No, they wouldn't be contacted."

See I simply said that when the boomers had exhausted all the answers to save themselves from a life time of narscissism, that the only true silver bullet solution would be an actual silver bullet.

However Obama puts it much nicer than I do. See the government will come out and counsel you about how you need to die to help society. They'll make you feel good about the silver bullet.

That Obama, he is a smart guy!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #376 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Tick, tick, tick

Maybe President Obama is a little smarter than we all give him credit for being.



See I simply said that when the boomers had exhausted all the answers to save themselves from a life time of narscissism, that the only true silver bullet solution would be an actual silver bullet.

However Obama puts it much nicer than I do. See the government will come out and counsel you about how you need to die to help society. They'll make you feel good about the silver bullet.

That Obama, he is a smart guy!

Works for me. BTW, I've got government health insurance, Blue Cross, pretty cheap too, I've gotten much more out of it than I've paid for in premiums.

Thanks for paying for my health insurance.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #377 of 452
Thread Starter 
No problem because now President Obama will convince you that your greedy ways need to end via some "counseling."

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #378 of 452
Thread Starter 
RealClearMarkets

Quote:
Watching Social Security Eat the Young Alive
By Bill Frezza

My 26 year old son got the most extraordinary letter from the Social Security Administration last week. In plain English it admitted that the system was a Ponzi scheme destined for bankruptcy more than a decade before he reaches retirement age. It warned that if he is to have any hope of retiring he'd better start saving on his own. Anyone who wasn't personally hypnotized by FDR knows this to be true. Yet I was still surprised that such a frank government confession didn't make national news.

The two-page pamphlet entitled "What young workers should know about Social Security and saving" reminds us that 50 million, or one in six, Americans will collect more than $614 Billion dollars in Social Security benefits this year. It informs young people that the Security Taxes they now pay go into a "Trust Fund" that is used to pay current beneficiaries. Paying off early investors with funds taken from later investors is precisely how Wikipedia defines a Ponzi scheme. The pamphlet advises that the Social Security Board of Trustees estimates that the "Trust Fund" will be depleted before my son's 54th birthday. Because people are living longer and the birth rate is low, it goes on, taxes paid by workers in the future will not be enough to pay the benefits promised in his personalized retirement account statement enclosed with the pamphlet. Imagine what hell would break loose if Schwab or Fidelity Investments enclosed a confession like this when they mailed investors their 401(k) statements.
On top of the negative rate of return young people paying into Social Security are expected to suffer, the pamphlet concludes that my son should plan on taking an additional 24% haircut on the benefits promised in his statement. This is the same healthy young kid being told that he will soon have to buy an artificially overpriced health insurance policy so his premiums can be redistributed to aging Baby Boomers lobbying Congress for free stuff.
Given the fact that Social Security will be bankrupt before my son even reaches my age, the pamphlet directs him to a handy web calculator that shows how much he will have to save every week if he hopes to retire on his own. Play with it for a few minutes and you realize that there is only one field in the calculator that really matters, and that is the rate of inflation. Plug in an annual inflation rate of one or two percent and the numbers look pretty reasonable as compound interest works its magic. But stick in the double digit inflation figures that were in vogue when Jimmy Carter was president and a funny thing happens. In order to prepare for retirement, young people would have to save more than they make!

Given the Vesuvius of cash the Fed pumped into the economy to disguise the real estate debacle, what do you think the odds are that inflation is going to stay at one or two percent?
Why do kids put up with this? Last time I checked they were old enough to vote. An entire generation is being systematically robbed by their parents with nary a peep. Why aren't they marching in the streets like we did? When they do show up at the polls like sheep ready to be shorn, they pull the lever for kumbaya politicians promising to stick them with the bill for an ever-expanding menu of unfunded middle class entitlements.
There only conclusion I can come to is that we Baby Boomers have infantilized our children into idiocy.

Our kids got so used to being taken care of, educated, clothed, entertained, and driven to the mall that they somehow got the idea that this life of Reilly would go on forever. Little did they know that we were luring them into an adulthood of intergenerational slavery. Baby Boomers made a mess out of what was once the most productive economy in human history. Rather than atoning for our errant ways by paying our own bills, we seem determined to use Congress to squeeze every last bit of cash out of anyone we can get our hands on before we shuffle off this mortal coil. Après nous, le Déluge.
Impoverished by our incessant demands for free government services, our children will most likely get revenge by not providing us with any grandchildren. Even if they wanted kids, how will they afford them if half their paycheck is confiscated to take care of us? [B]As the most self-absorbed generation in American history, I suppose Baby Boomers will find it easy to live out their days bereft of grandchildren, much as the French and Italians have.[/B] Can this really be the Great Society we've been promising to bequeath to posterity?

BOOM, BOOM, BOOMER.

The servitude is here and platitudes by our historic president don't seem to be raising his approval rating much when people are pondering who is going to be paying all these bills for the most selfish generation in history! I'm sure Congress will decided to find another trillion or so dollars to add on to the backs of the future so the boomers can afford their overinflated and speculative investments for a few more years while praying they get bailed out in retirement.

They had better keep waiting....

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #379 of 452
Thread Starter 
Wouldn't it be amazing if all those who claimed the thoughts in this thread were merely hatched in my head and didn't exist anywhere else were proven wrong by an entire movie/documentary coming out that claims all the same things as this thread?

That would indeed be pretty amazing wouldn't it.


Quote:
“This film is about a crisis – one that is as profound as The Revolution, The Civil War, or The Great Depression and WWII,” says Bannon. “The title ‘Generation Zero’ is ironic, as it refers to both the Baby Boomers and the generation born today: the one generation whose greed and fiscal mismanagement has destroyed the financial legacy and inheritance of the other.”

Don't forget...........

Quote:
Featuring more than 40 leading experts, authors, and pundits from across the political spectrum, “Generation Zero” exposes how the mindset of the “Greatest Generation” — to not let their children suffer through the same economic hardships that they did during the Great Depression and WWII — led to the “Me Generation” and ultimately the Clinton/Bush era of trading campaign contributions for government “cover” in the form of guaranteed bailouts of Wall Street’s speculative investments, thus sowing the seeds of economic disaster that would be reaped by coming generations.


People should go back and review this thread. Even when Republicans or conservatives get excited about a new face du jour, I'm pretty sure if they are of the boomer generation, they will end up being a lying, self-serving hack because the boomer generation doesn't understand that there are rules. Their first rule is that they change the rules and always will and are thus, above them.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #380 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Wouldn't it be amazing if all those who claimed the thoughts in this thread were merely hatched in my head and didn't exist anywhere else were proven wrong by an entire movie/documentary coming out that claims all the same things as this thread?

That would indeed be pretty amazing wouldn't it.




Don't forget...........



People should go back and review this thread. Even when Republicans or conservatives get excited about a new face du jour, I'm pretty sure if they are of the boomer generation, they will end up being a lying, self-serving hack because the boomer generation doesn't understand that there are rules. Their first rule is that they change the rules and always will and are thus, above them.


Quote:
“The title ‘Generation Zero’ is ironic, as it refers to both the Baby Boomers and the generation born today: the one generation whose greed and fiscal mismanagement has destroyed the financial legacy and inheritance of the other.”


If you search far enough you'll always find some lunatic to support any view.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #381 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

People should go back and review this thread. Even when Republicans or conservatives get excited about a new face du jour, I'm pretty sure if they are of the boomer generation, they will end up being a lying, self-serving hack because the boomer generation doesn't understand that there are rules. Their first rule is that they change the rules and always will and are thus, above them.

Your logic would have us blaming Adam and Eve.

I thought you were all about personal responsibility?

Your theory is hardly unique. There are therapists all over the world listening to people blame their parents for their failure... and then there are people all over the world overcoming their limitations and succeeding. Which are you?
post #382 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Your logic would have us blaming Adam and Eve.

I thought you were all about personal responsibility?

Your theory is hardly unique. There are therapists all over the world listening to people blame their parents for their failure... and then there are people all over the world overcoming their limitations and succeeding. Which are you?

If you went back to the beginning of the thread and read it, you would see the concept of generational accounting is introduced. One generation cannot run up 11 trillion in debt, and promise themselves 100 trillion in benefits on the backs of another generation and expect not to get the blame.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #383 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

If you went back to the beginning of the thread and read it, you would see the concept of generational accounting is introduced. One generation cannot run up 11 trillion in debt, and promise themselves 100 trillion in benefits on the backs of another generation and expect not to get the blame.

You can blame a whole generation for the creation of entitlement programs if you want, but I'm thinking that boomers have also given more than any generation too, in the form of things like infrastructure.

Highways across the nation weren't going to build themselves. Same thing for communications infrastructure and the power grid, etc.

I don't have a problem with spending when there are tangible results, and boomers have had more tangible results than any other generation.
post #384 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

You can blame a whole generation for the creation of entitlement programs if you want, but I'm thinking that boomers have also given more than any generation too, in the form of things like infrastructure.

Highways across the nation weren't going to build themselves. Same thing for communications infrastructure and the power grid, etc.

I don't have a problem with spending when there are tangible results, and boomers have had more tangible results than any other generation.

I've tried to explain this to him but he just doesn't want to see that. If what he said was true then no generation after the Boomers would have owned a credit card or gotten a home loan which we know isn't the truth. Also if the Boomers hadn't existed life would be very different today. I'm not saying we're perfect but to single us out just because there are more of us is just childish.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #385 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

You can blame a whole generation for the creation of entitlement programs if you want, but I'm thinking that boomers have also given more than any generation too, in the form of things like infrastructure.

Highways across the nation weren't going to build themselves. Same thing for communications infrastructure and the power grid, etc.

I don't have a problem with spending when there are tangible results, and boomers have had more tangible results than any other generation.

A couple points, many of those items have been built, but were done so with debt/bonds that again, will be paid for by someone other than the boomers.

Second, our infrastructure is falling apart. When you look at the build date of many things, it was done by the generation prior. The boomers might have maintained it (though often not) or expanded it, but there are no great works I can think of that have occurred during their tenure.

Finally if the largest generation in history was giving more than any generation, why would we have the deficits we do? That isn't possible.

The Coming Generational Storm hit many of these points and was discussed in the thread earlier. It hit on items such has health are retirement age, amount owed on home, retirement assets, etc. The boomers were dead last in all of them. They are even coming into retirement years in worse health than the prior generation due to continued drug use and obesity. I also filled the thread with generational comparative articles. Give it a look.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #386 of 452
There's a storm coming alright. But it's more in the form of voters being fed up with wild claims. They want real answers not stereotypical outlooks and partisan poppycock.

Trumpy would have us all believe that Boomers are all drug addicts and over weight. Well I've got news for him. Most people I know are really fit. As a matter of fact more fit than when they were his age. You see your metabolic rate slows down as you get older so you either have two choices get fat and all the health problems that go along with that or get fit and it's something you have to work at as the fat doesn't come off like it did when you're older as trumpy will one day discover.

I don't know any " drug addicts ". After my early 30's I tended to avoid those people as they were not someone I'd want to hang with.
And by the way there are no drug addicts or over weight people in their 30's are there?

You have got to love those stereotypes. You know the kind of folks that think people on the west coast still tie up their horse in town and have flaming arrows in their front door.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #387 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

There's a storm coming alright. But it's more in the form of voters being fed up with wild claims. They want real answers not stereotypical outlooks and partisan poppycock.

I believe you're right, which is why the Democrats are quite likely to have their asses handed to them this November and, possibly, in 2012 as well.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #388 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I believe you're right, which is why the Democrats are quite likely to have their asses handed to them this November and, possibly, in 2012 as well.

Good luck with that.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #389 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

There's a storm coming alright. But it's more in the form of voters being fed up with wild claims. They want real answers not stereotypical outlooks and partisan poppycock.

That much we agree on.

Quote:

Trumpy would have us all believe that Boomers are all drug addicts and over weight. Well I've got news for him. Most people I know are really fit...



Classic jimmac. An anecdote wrapped in a strawman. Goof stuff.
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #390 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

That much we agree on.




Classic jimmac. An anecdote wrapped in a strawman. Goof stuff.

So are you saying that most Boomers are drug addicts and overweight? If so you'll be asked to provide proof.

Make that comparitive proof.

Personally my girls say that there are more overweight kids in school now than there used to be ( too much video stuff and not enough outdoor activity ). When I was a kid there was only a few overweight kids in school. Now they say there's a lot of them. So being the fat kid doesn't carry the same stigma it once did.

I do know this physical education was emphasized thanks to President Kennedy when I was in school. Maybe we need that again.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #391 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

A couple points, many of those items have been built, but were done so with debt/bonds that again, will be paid for by someone other than the boomers.

Second, our infrastructure is falling apart. When you look at the build date of many things, it was done by the generation prior. The boomers might have maintained it (though often not) or expanded it, but there are no great works I can think of that have occurred during their tenure.

Finally if the largest generation in history was giving more than any generation, why would we have the deficits we do? That isn't possible.

The Coming Generational Storm hit many of these points and was discussed in the thread earlier. It hit on items such has health are retirement age, amount owed on home, retirement assets, etc. The boomers were dead last in all of them. They are even coming into retirement years in worse health than the prior generation due to continued drug use and obesity. I also filled the thread with generational comparative articles. Give it a look.

All your points are easily explained - subsequent generations failed to perform as well as the boomers.

Boomers have had less and less influence and are now leaving the workforce... and the economy is going to hell in a handbasket.

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

post #392 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post


http://zfacts.com/p/318.html


Sweet graph
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #393 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Sweet graph

Bu wait - there's more!

Quote:
Originally Posted by McKinsey Quarterly

In less than a decade, all of the baby boomers will be 51 to 70 years old. This generations size and tendency to make new rules have created business opportunities since child boomers bought hula hoops in the 1950s. Now its time for businesses to prepare for the changing needs of the older boomers, who are about to become the largest and wealthiest over-50 consumer group in US history. Boomers will account for roughly 40 percent of US spending by 2015 and for a disproportionate share of the growth and consumption in industries ranging from consumer electronics and clothing to home furnishings, restaurants, and, of course, health care.
post #394 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

All your points are easily explained - subsequent generations failed to perform as well as the boomers.

Boomers have had less and less influence and are now leaving the workforce... and the economy is going to hell in a handbasket.

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html


I'll be happy to see how that graph supports your contention. But tossing the two out there together doesn't mean they support each other.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #395 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I'll be happy to see how that graph supports your contention. But tossing the two out there together doesn't mean they support each other.

Quote:
why would we have the deficits we do?

Boomers came on the scene in 1946 and started becoming a dominant part of the workforce and voting demographic in 1964.

Generation X came on the scene in 1961 and started becoming a dominant part of the workforce and voting demographic in 1979 or so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X
Quote:
Individuals considered to be within Generation X were born, and grew up during the later years of, and in the decade following the Vietnam War. They are most often linked to the presidencies of Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush.
...
The study, which was released on May 25, 2007, emphasized that in real dollars, this generation's men made less (by 12%) than their fathers had at that same age in 1974, thus reversing a historical trend. The study also suggests that per year increases in the portion of father/son family household income generated by fathers/sons have slowed (from an average of 0.9% to 0.3%), barely keeping pace with inflation, though increases in overall father/son family household income are progressively higher each year because more women are entering the workplace, contributing to family household income.

Gen X are slackers.
post #396 of 452
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

Boomers came on the scene in 1946 and started becoming a dominant part of the workforce and voting demographic in 1964.

Generation X came on the scene in 1961 and started becoming a dominant part of the workforce and voting demographic in 1979 or so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X

Gen X are slackers.

Fantastic and that still explains absolutely nothing about your graph.

Also I have no doubt they've made fewer dollars but dollars alone do not measure much because it isn't just what you make but what you keep. The boomers have kept nothing and borrowed everything.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #397 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Fantastic and that still explains absolutely nothing about your graph.

Also I have no doubt they've made fewer dollars but dollars alone do not measure much because it isn't just what you make but what you keep. The boomers have kept nothing and borrowed everything.

You act as if your initial assertion doesn't have to resolve conflicts that are presented.

That's not how it works. You make the assertion and support it as it's challenged, not the other way around. Since you alluded boomers are the root of all evil and that the deficit was somehow their responsibility, the graph shows your mistake - deficits increased when Gen X and subsequent generations failed to pull their weight.

Boomers put together a budget and generations after that lacked the will to make the tough decisions, like reduce benefits for Social Security, Medicare and Medicade, to manage the budget.

NOW, since you assert that boomers are responsible, defend your assertion against the challenge or ... keep dancing.
post #398 of 452
So it's Gen X's fault that we went to war in Iraq. Uhh, aren't you missing the trend that Republicans from Reagan on up have absolutely sucked when it comes to spending?

Let's not blame a generation here. Let's blame an utterly out of control Republican party and a spineless Democratic party that got trampled as the Reps mortgaged our future.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #399 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

So it's Gen X's fault that we went to war in Iraq.

Not really - I don't believe that generalities can be formed that find any specific generation responsible for anything... I'm just challenging trumps assertions within the same context he's using to present the argument.

Since it's his assertion, he has to defend the argument in kind, and I don't believe he can.

It's impossible to distinguish boomers from GenX'ers. Even the income disparity - it's actually the result of global pressures that weren't as prevalent prior to GenX. Boomers had to compete in a much smaller sphere of global influences - Japanese products, for instance, were considered cheap junk in the boomers heyday, and that changed for GenX.

It is a poor argument in the first place, presented as an attempt to find a scapegoat for perceived deficiencies in today's circumstances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Let's blame an utterly out of control Republican party and a spineless Democratic party that got trampled as the Reps mortgaged our future.

That makes as much sense as blaming one particular generation. The outcome of any situation is a result of the sum of the influences, not any particular isolated influence.
post #400 of 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

So it's Gen X's fault that we went to war in Iraq. Uhh, aren't you missing the trend that Republicans from Reagan on up have absolutely sucked when it comes to spending?

Let's not blame a generation here. Let's blame an utterly out of control Republican party and a spineless Democratic party that got trampled as the Reps mortgaged our future.

In a nutshell exactly! How's that for bipartisan?
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