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Economy, opportunity seen leading to $599 Apple netbook - Page 4

post #121 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

i' curious what your 'non-primary' computer is if you use your netbook that exclusively and how heavily you use your primary machine. what application could you not live without? i'm guessing you're not running photoshop on it...

Netbooks are not a desktop replacement. They are not intended to run PS and are not suitable for doing so. They are "good enough" for sending real replies to email, working on text documents, connecting to servers which many corporations use for running apps and so on. They are smaller, lighter and easier for a business traveler (or any one else for that matter) to carry when on the go.
post #122 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

Whats wrong with what he said, netbooks are just part of the annoying complaints we have to deal with. Theybare cheapening the computer market, next people will be demanding 200 dollar macs.


"They are cheapening the computer market...." That is the nature of the market, like it or not. An IBM 360 cost $1,000,000 and filled a room. Is that where you want to go?
post #123 of 256
This thread was a real eye-opener for me. I just checked the Amazon best-selling list, and the net books are everywhere ! ! !

Apple must go in this direction, with something, soon, or it will lose real marketshare.
post #124 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

It's a real shame that so MANY people don't see that it's expensive to make things smaller. They see that the speed of the product affects the price, but think Apple just decide to charge triple for fun.

It's not as simple as that. How can netbooks who are smaller, lighter, have more features, be cheaper than the MacBook Air?

It comes down to quality of materials and profit margins. It may cost them more to build using aluminum instead of cheap plastics, but in the end, it still comes down to margins. Apple simply requires higher, much higher margins on it's products.

I'm surprised the MacBook Air isn't positioned below a MacBook. Yes, it's lighter, and slimmer, but is it as feature rich? It's probably too late at this point in it's product life, but the MacBook Air would have really taken off at the $900-$1000 price point.
post #125 of 256
I guess none of you people read MacWorld magazine. They featured an article with Steve Jobs himself that said Apple has no interest in making a Netbook at this time, however, they are watching the market to see if it is successful. If the Netbook becomes a popular option, they have some good ideas.

Based on the parameters of a Netbook: small, low powered, feature-less portable; Apple already has a laptop that meets those parameters: their overpriced MacBook Air. Compared to the MacBook and MacBook Pro, the Air is Apple's Netbook. It is smaller, low powered, and less features than the standard lineup. Too bad they overpriced it.
post #126 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

How exactly did the MBA pay for itself in 2 months for you? IOW, there is no other machine that could have done the same but at a cheaper cost to you?

1) Do I need to explain again what the MBA can accomplish? I'm a oprofessional and the MBA was a very wise investment.

2) Nope, there isn't right now, at least not from Apple. (and yes, I own a MBP and a MB; the MBA blows them away as far as my needs are concerned)

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #127 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

This is simple.
Just sell the Air at $599 and you're good to go.
The Air shouldn't be a luxurious choice, it should be marketed as Apple's smallest and weakest entry model. I guess the Air was a pioneer trying out a number of new technologies, but now that it's been proven to work, just ramp the production and lower the price. There's really no point in the Air being one of Apple's most expensive computers. It's not good for anyone.

Bull if Sony can charge up to 4000 dollars for their laptops in the Air's category, why can't Apple, why don't you go tell Sony to drop the price of TT to 599.
post #128 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

The Air has been the target of lots of fussing, almost entirely by people who don't own one and who can't conceive of why someone would. Either out of envy or what have you (the price point does put it out of reach of many possible buyers), they love to attack it. There was a thread earlier this year that went on and on about how bad it was. In the mean time, I bought one and put it to use; it paid for itself within two months and continues to work wonders.

The difference in weight alone b/w my Air and my wife's MacBook (not to mention my MacBook Pro) is worth the extra cost. Add to that the savings in space occupied in my bag and I now can carry a full-sized Wacom tablet instead of the tiny one on days when I plan to do heavy artwork (which is regular and yes, the Air handles it very capably).

The rantings against the Air almost reached an insulting level at one point; it really was quite ridiculous.

The MBA serves a particular market, has given Apple sufficient cash flow to more than pay for itself as a project, and performs many important tasks for the people who own it.

It's called jealousy, they want but don't want to put up the money for it, so they insult it.
post #129 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR View Post

"They are cheapening the computer market...." That is the nature of the market, like it or not. An IBM 360 cost $1,000,000 and filled a room. Is that where you want to go?

Heck no, but I sure don't want to see laptops selling for 100 dollars, what's next people wanting them for 50 dollars.
post #130 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

It's not as simple as that. How can netbooks who are smaller, lighter, have more features, be cheaper than the MacBook Air?

It comes down to quality of materials and profit margins. It may cost them more to build using aluminum instead of cheap plastics, but in the end, it still comes down to margins. Apple simply requires higher, much higher margins on it's products.

I'm surprised the MacBook Air isn't positioned below a MacBook. Yes, it's lighter, and slimmer, but is it as feature rich? It's probably too late at this point in it's product life, but the MacBook Air would have really taken off at the $900-$1000 price point.

Dude go check out the price of the Sony TT, if Sony can charge that much for a computer, why can't Apple?
post #131 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Apple already has a net book. It is called an iPod Touch. It is fully capable at surfing the internet, and sending email. This is for less then three hundred dollars.

I so wish this was true. I have the Touch, my third iPod. I was so turned on by the coolness of having my music collection and the internet in my pocket. But it's not. I've got all the music and audio books, as I do in another iPod. And I can surf to some of the internet. But I can't get my favorite radio stations (not without a lot of work and work arounds and not much of it successful...yet). Further, I can't access the videos/sites I generally do. Many, many of the sites in my Favorites list simply won't open on my Touch. I think if the Touch could/would handle Flash most of these issues would be cleared up. I also think that's not gonna happen. On top of all that is the general limit of having only one application running at a time. If an application provides me with the radio station I want, I'm tied to it...I can't surf at the same time.

When I can access/play the same sites on my Touch as I do on my five year old XP PC I'll be very happy. But until then, the Touch as an internet device remains severely crippled. A netbook does what I'm looking for...except fit in my pocket.\

john
post #132 of 256
iPod or iPhone is NOT a netbook!!

It's no way I use my iPhone for making fast notes in a meeting. I want a netbook priced somewhere between $400 and MAX $600.

Macbook are SO expensive, it's a pricecrap for us with modern needs.

Apple - please do not come with a fancy netbook that are priced over $600!!
post #133 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesy mogul View Post

Amazon's current notebook bestseller list:

1. Aspire One blue, $384.99
2. Aspire One black, $385.82
3. Aspire One white, $ 388.99
4. Aspire One pink, $ 349.99
5. One Laptop per Child XO (Give a Laptop, Get a Laptop) $399.00
6. Samsung NC10, $482.99
7. Asus eeePC 904, $384.95
8. Asus eeePC 900, $329.99
9. Apple Macbook 2.0 Alu, $1268.98
10. Acer Aspire One , 6-cell, pink, $399.00
The next real notebook:
15. Toshiba Satellite L305, $599.99

Out of curiosity I've been checking the Amazon notebook bestsellers from time to time during the last two months. Always the same picture: 8-9 netbooks and one or two Macbooks in the top ten!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers...f=pd_ts_pc_nav

Imagine Apple had a $700 10" or $800 11" netbook in their program and guess who would lead this list then?

Netbooks are mainly secondary computers. They would sell iMacs, Macbook and Macbook Pros like hot cakes to switchers who got hooked to OSX via affordable Mac netbooks. That's where Apple's real profit lies in the long run.

No matter what Jobs said two months ago, market trends and recession will force Apple to jump on the netbook bandwagon rather sooner than later.
There is nothing like the smell of switcher blood in the morning!

Apple only cares about it's statistical ranking if they are making money to achieve it. Then they market the crap out of that ranking. Apple is probably making more net profit from that single MB at rank 9 than the combined net profit of the 8 netbooks above it. The real testament here is that Apple is still in the top 10 with an item that is on average more than 3x the cost of the other items.

PS: How many non-netbooks, non-Macs trump out Apple's current product range on Amazon? This is why the Mac segment is half of Apple's profit.
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post #134 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesy mogul View Post

Amazon's current notebook bestseller list:

1. Aspire One blue, $384.99
2. Aspire One black, $385.82
3. Aspire One white, $ 388.99
4. Aspire One pink, $ 349.99
5. One Laptop per Child XO (Give a Laptop, Get a Laptop) $399.00
6. Samsung NC10, $482.99
7. Asus eeePC 904, $384.95
8. Asus eeePC 900, $329.99
9. Apple Macbook 2.0 Alu, $1268.98
10. Acer Aspire One , 6-cell, pink, $399.00
The next real notebook:
15. Toshiba Satellite L305, $599.99

Good point. It wasn't that long ago that an Apple computer was always at the top of Amazon's computer bestsellers. So much for the netbooks not being popular.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

The difference in weight alone b/w my Air and my wife's MacBook (not to mention my MacBook Pro) is worth the extra cost.

Yes, people who say Macbooks are plenty light haven't had to haul them for any length of time. A 2-pound netbook would be even more convenient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

Yes. Expanding the 'iPod/iPhone' touch computing platform. I can see that happening. Add your own k/b...or use the built in multi-touch one.

As I've written, I don't think it's a good idea to work up from the iPhone. Full OS X is many times more functional than the iPhone OS. It should be fairly easy to get OS X to run iPhone apps, assuming they don't take advantage of hardware that's unique to the iPhone, like the 3G modem, accelerometer or GPS. It might even be possible to get each iPhone app to open in its own window, so you can work on several things at a time, impossible on the iPhone. The iPhone is simply not designed as a windowing, multitasking OS (other than having something run in the background). You still have to wait for Apple to add cut & paste and Flash, Silverlight and other plug-ins are already available for OS X while there's a good chance they won't show up on the iPhone for years. AFAIK, it's still impossible to play most video formats back on the iPhone, including Xvid and WMV. All easy with the Perian and Flip4Mac plug-ins or VLC for OS X. Even Quicktime movies, either separate files or embedded on websites, won't play back on iPhones, and that's Apple's own technology!

Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

It's not as simple as that. How can netbooks who are smaller, lighter, have more features, be cheaper than the MacBook Air?

Nobody's saying netbooks are supposed to have more features, except maybe a built-in 3G modem or other things that already exist in the iPhone. Part of the cost savings would be from having a smaller screen. Smaller screens always cost less. A smaller screen needs less juice, so you can use a smaller, cheaper battery. Instead of a Core2Duo, they could use a Moorestown, which can run the same code, although not as snappily as some people like. The whole Atom line is designed to be used on small, low power, low cost devices, not full-blown laptops. Although for Moorestown, we may have to wait another 9 months to a year.
post #135 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apple only cares about it's statistical ranking if they are making money to achieve it. Then they market the crap out of that ranking. Apple is probably making more net profit from that single MB at rank 9 than the combined net profit of the 8 netbooks above it. The real testament here is that Apple is still in the top 10 with an item that is on average more than 3x the cost of the other items.

PS: How many non-netbooks, non-Macs trump out Apple's current product range on Amazon? This is why the Mac segment is half of Apple's profit.

This is the problem these guys don't get, the only reason they are on there is because they are low priced. Apple is probably making more money than all those products.
post #136 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorf View Post

iPod or iPhone is NOT a netbook!!

It's no way I use my iPhone for making fast notes in a meeting. I want a netbook priced somewhere between $400 and MAX $600.

Macbook are SO expensive, it's a pricecrap for us with modern needs.

Apple - please do not come with a fancy netbook that are priced over $600!!

My netbook has its place but that niche is considerably smaller than my full-size keyboard MB and my very versatile and portable iPhone. People aren't saying that the iPhone/Touch 'are' netbooks, but that they fill the void that most people want in a portable device better than a netbook. These PMPs and MIDs are more portable as they will fit in your pocket and offer significantly longer battery life. They can also be used easily while standing in a line or even walking.

And here is the kicker... they offer most of what people want for a portable internet device. With a netbook you have to open it up and start up or wake it. It won't fit in your hand and the price is doubt that of an iPod Touch. And even if you own a netbook you aren't substituting the cost of the iPhone/iPod Touch probably going to be carrying some sort of PMP anyway.
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post #137 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

WE NEED THOUSANDS for our University:

- Light (about 300 to 400 g). The MacBook Air is too heavy for us!
- Small (pocketable; about 5-inch screen or so). The MacBook Air is too large for us!
- Full and genuine and native Mac OS X 10.5.5 inside (not just OS X)
- VGA port out to connect to videoprojectors for videopresentations.
- FireWire for Target Disk Mode repairs and much better file transfer performance.
- Touch screen.
- Tablet form factor.
- Pricing is NOT an issue.

Your university is going to buy 'thousands' of devices that only have a 5-inch screen? What in the world can you do that is useful on a 5-inch screen. The iPhone's touch screen is nice, but no serious person can get ANY serious work done on a 5-inch screen, let alone a 2.5 inch screen. You'd be lucky to do anything beyond word processing on a 10-inch screen.

I don't know what the fascination is with small-screen devices? Unless there is some type of video-out where you can connect the small-screen device to a larger screen, they are useless for anything other than checking email and surfing the web as a hobby.

- Eric
post #138 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

1) Do I need to explain again what the MBA can accomplish? I'm a oprofessional and the MBA was a very wise investment.

2) Nope, there isn't right now, at least not from Apple. (and yes, I own a MBP and a MB; the MBA blows them away as far as my needs are concerned)

So the MacBook can't do what you did with the MacBook Air? You're lying to justify your purchase. You could have completed the exact same tasks, and then some with the MacBook as opposed to the Air. And you could have gotten it done faster.

And I do carry my MacBook around with me, so I know what it's like to travel with it.
post #139 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... the researcher believes that the desire for a keyboard ultimately the usefulness of the iPhone...

does a board op want to fix that syntax?
post #140 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by zmonster View Post

Your university is going to buy 'thousands' of devices that only have a 5-inch screen? What in the world can you do that is useful on a 5-inch screen. The iPhone's touch screen is nice, but no serious person can get ANY serious work done on a 5-inch screen, let alone a 2.5 inch screen. You'd be lucky to do anything beyond word processing on a 10-inch screen.

I don't know what the fascination is with small-screen devices? Unless there is some type of video-out where you can connect the small-screen device to a larger screen, they are useless for anything other than checking email and surfing the web as a hobby.

- Eric

I am not sure of the poster's intent here, but the difference between an MID and a Netbook will be noticeable. There are obvious compromises between a Netbook and an MID, but then the MID has fewer compromises than a smartphone (including the iPhone). [Note: Widespread WiMax adoption is not likely to occur any time soon and so most of these devices will probably ship with either a 3G capability or both 3G and WiMax.] Some MIDs will be more "accessorized" to bridge the gap between devices.

One specific advantage of a Netbook over either a smartphone or an MID is the ability to actually type with more than two fingers (and have fewer errors. Even an MID will be a lot better for actually typing with fewer errors than any of the existing smartphones.

None of these devices should be confused with UMPCs such as the MacBook Air.
post #141 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Thurman View Post

Like nearly all "journalists" this guy has no experience or financial education.

Gregg, that's a nice generalization. According to Linkdin, his education was at univ of texas austin, and at harvard ( couldn't find his field of study). His experience is as follows, according to a google search (Journalists--yeah, I'm one--do some research before stating "facts"). Assuming (an un-journalistic thing to do) that this is the same Ezra Gottheil...

Ezra Gottheil
Corporate Alumni Inc.

Ezra Gottheil was at Lotus for almost twelve years, from 1981 to 1993. In fact, the company he joined in 1981 was not even called Lotus; it was Micro Finance Systems, a company Mitch Kapor had formed to market his first software product, Tiny Troll. Ezra met Mitch in high school, and they formed a close friendship at what he calls "nerd camp," a summer science program in the hills north of Los Angeles.
"For years," Ezra recalls, "Mitch was an entrepreneur in search of a medium. He had a background in computing, among other things, but the mainframes and minis involved too much centralization, too much politics. Mitch embraced the personal computer as if he immediately recognized his true calling." Meanwhile, Ezra had developed some computer expertise working as a programmer to put himself through graduate school in Psychology.

Mitch was starting what was to become Lotus at the same time that Ezra was concluding his internship at The Cambridge Hospital. Mitch offered a loosely defined part-time position at the start-up, and Ezra grabbed it. Offices were in a basement in Central Square. Janet Axelrod, later VP of HR, was office manager, and Ezra became employee number three. Ezra says that for a while, he did some programming and prototyping, but it became apparent that there were some real professionals out there, and he looked for other ways to contribute. Finally, he joined the 1-2-3 documentation team, and authored approximately one-fourth of the first user manual.

For the rest of his Lotus career, Ezra played a large number of roles, principally in software design, but also in product management and product planning. He worked on several versions of 1-2-3 for DOS, Symphony, Manuscript, Notes in the very early days, Signal, Metro, Bluefish, and HAL. He was the product manager for HAL, and remembers it as one of his favorite projects. "HAL was an old-fashioned make-it-up-as-you-go-along crunch. I never worked harder or had more fun. Bluefish reignited my passion for software, and Symphony 2.0 was a dream of a project."

Ezra left Lotus in 1993 and joined Delphi Internet Services, one of the first national ISPs. "It was like personal computer software in the early eighties. We didn’t know what we couldn’t do, so we did it. I‘ve been incredibly lucky to be in at the beginnings of both the personal computer and Internet revolutions." Ezra found himself on the editorial side of Delphi, running their community- and content-development team. Delphi was acquired by Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation, and Ezra found himself in the media business. "I was having the time of my life until they moved to New York."

After a stint as an independent consultant, Ezra joined Hurwitz Group, a small industry analysis firm, where he covered Internet software. "Being an analyst is the opposite of being a product manager. A product manager knows everything about one small thing, the product. An analyst knows very little about a vast number of things. Viewing the world at 50,000 feet certainly gives you great perspective, but little contact with reality."

Leaving Hurwitz in 1998, Ezra again worked as an independent consultant in the Internet software world, until he met up with Glenn Kaufman, President and Founder of Corporate Alumni Inc., the company which hosts Axle and other company alumni communities. Ezra’s business card reads "Community Guru." "The Corporate Alumni mission, reuniting real communities using technology, is exactly what I like to do. I enjoy technology, but only in the service of real people."

July 31, 2000
post #142 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

So the MacBook can't do what you did with the MacBook Air? You're lying to justify your purchase. You could have completed the exact same tasks, and then some with the MacBook as opposed to the Air. And you could have gotten it done faster.

And I do carry my MacBook around with me, so I know what it's like to travel with it.

How is he lying if the Macbook Air mets his needs?
post #143 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

These mockups have a pension for obsessing over handheld tablets ala Star Trek...

Spock would say not pension, but penchant: "a strong or habitual liking for something, or tendency to do something, as in, 'he has a penchant for adopting stray dogs'..."
post #144 of 256
Apple is not going to release a cheap laptop. They may create a low-cost product offering that would fall into the netbook category, but it will not be a netbook as the term is currently defined. The current definition of a netbook is very broad and encompasses low-cost, low-performance, ultra-portable, and most importantly for Apple, encompasses low-quality. Apple will not release a low-quality offering.

I believe that Apple will redefine the entire netbook category and create something that is not synonymous with cheap, or even laptop. Their product will be something completely different and revolutionary like the iPhone: netbook is just a marketing term after all - theres a lot of innovation to be had here.

Releasing a cheap notebook would ruin the rest of their product line-up.

Check out my recent response to this AppleInsider article...
post #145 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by devin View Post

Apple is not going to release a cheap laptop. They may create a low-cost product offering that would fall into the netbook category, but it will not be a netbook as the term is currently defined. The current definition of a netbook is very broad and encompasses low-cost, low-performance, ultra-portable, and most importantly for Apple, encompasses low-quality. Apple will not release a low-quality offering.

I believe that Apple will redefine the entire netbook category and create something that is not synonymous with cheap, or even laptop. Their product will be something completely different and revolutionary like the iPhone: netbook is just a marketing term after all - theres a lot of innovation to be had here.

Releasing a cheap notebook would ruin the rest of their product line-up.

Check out my recent response to this AppleInsider article...

One definition of Netbook and MID.
post #146 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Really? Numbers please.

I think they must be counting the 10-foot piles of netbooks that are stacked in every Costco in the country. I don't know if anyone knows what they really are and are buying them, but they sit there like grapefruit. The ultimate position of a commodity. It is pushing the business models to be able to evaluate what sales are.

Even with this, I think Apple can reinvent the form-factor if it can do something real with .mac and MobileMe. That is part of the future, just as much as iPhones are. And the thing is that the infrastructure that supports the iPhone can be the same one for the netbook and THAT is the point. Apple now has been creating ecosystems, not just computer systems so that OSX and .mac and content delivery with iTunes is all in set for any device to fit in.

I'm sure this is 99% a business decision and not a tech decision, but I think now is the time to tweak the business model. I think the eBook with internet is more the way to go myself, but whatever the form, the netbook is a place for the market to meet profits.
The Mother of all flip-flops!!
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The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
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post #147 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorf View Post

iPod or iPhone is NOT a netbook!!

It's no way I use my iPhone for making fast notes in a meeting. I want a netbook priced somewhere between $400 and MAX $600.

Macbook are SO expensive, it's a pricecrap for us with modern needs.

Apple - please do not come with a fancy netbook that are priced over $600!!

Amen, brother.
The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
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The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
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post #148 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

As a writer, it would be great to have something small that I could just have with me where ever I go, so that I could take notes, or jot down ideas as they come to me, no matter where I am. So, I have my own fantasy for an Apple netbook/tablet thing:

Basically, something about the size of a paperback novel, perhaps a slightly larger footprint, but small enough to fit inside a large coat pocket, and about a quarter-inch to half-inch in thickness. Machined aluminum, fully weather sealed, no moving parts. No physical ports of any kind. It would be powered via induction, and all communication would be via bluetooth, airport, -- and I heard that induction could also possibly handle data transmission. Basically, this thing would be a tank. I could drop it in my bag, and not worry about bits breaking off, or it being crushed among other gear or books. I could take it to the beach and not worry about salt corrosion, or sand getting into any ports, because there AREN'T any ports. Or, if I was sitting by the pool, and someone splashed water everywhere, it wouldn't be a disaster. I'd just wipe off the screen and continue doing what I was doing.
On the software side, a major upgrade to Apple's "Ink" software, so that it could "learn" my handwriting, which would enable me to jot down quick notes, and it would save the file both as a text file, and as a vector graphic of my actual writing strokes.
A stylus would be important, because, for jotting notes or drawing rough sketches, it would be much better to use a stylus than my finger.

And, of course, it could download movies or games to the SSD, so that I could watch movies on the plane, or stream them from my main computer when I'm at home (although, why would I want to watch movies on my tiny tablet if I'm at home, and can watch them on the main computer, or on TV? Because I could, that's why.)

I was not that impressed with the MacBook Air when it came out, because, while the thinness was amusing and mildly impressive, I didn't like that it had the same footprint as the 13" MacBook, which doesn't help when I have a cluttered desk, or limited space in my backpack word processor, movie player, e-reader, note-taker, photo album, would work great for me. I'd pay $599 to $999 for something like that.

Why not just ask for world peace? It would arrive sooner and be easier to achieve.
post #149 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

It's not as simple as that. How can netbooks who are smaller, lighter, have more features, be cheaper than the MacBook Air?

Put simply - if a netbook was smaller and lighter than the MacBook Air, at the same hardware configuration, it wouldn't have more features. It might be slightly cheaper, but it won't be $500 vs Apple's $1800.

It's a trade off. Computer can get away with being less powerful if you don't push them as hard (eg: use XP instead of Vista). There's nothing wrong with that - it's actually very smart - for a long time the focus has been on pc features not size, and the OS has been designed to run best on the latest hardware (size irrelevant) and the lightest smallest computers aren't the best hardware (in comparison to the desktop chips and even regular laptop chips).


Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

It comes down to quality of materials and profit margins. It may cost them more to build using aluminum instead of cheap plastics, but in the end, it still comes down to margins. Apple simply requires higher, much higher margins on it's products.

Apple is not making a 400% markup on the MBA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

I'm surprised the MacBook Air isn't positioned below a MacBook. Yes, it's lighter, and slimmer, but is it as feature rich? It's probably too late at this point in it's product life, but the MacBook Air would have really taken off at the $900-$1000 price point.

They DID drop some features to reduce size. But when you're on the cutting edge of lighter/slimmer you either drop a lot of speed etc or the cost goes up.

Your example is probably a good representation of what most people see. They know that smaller size increases cost if you want the same performance, but since the MBA is slower they figure that performance HAS been sacrificed and thus the price shouldn't still be high. The problem is the performance would need to be much further reduced to do that.

I know OSX can run on lesser machines and Apple could produce a netbook with OSX - but factor in the ram, hard disk, battery life, and general performance and the picture equalises a lot.
post #150 of 256
Quote:
Like the MacBook Air ultraportable, this future system would be at least as thin and light as others in its category but would potentially have a larger surface area to allow a larger display or more comfortable input. Netbook owners carry their systems "in stacks with papers and books" and care more about thickness than footprint, according to Gottheil


Netbook owners ... care more about thickness than footprint? Mr. Gottheil perhaps you should check out the MacBooks VS the netbooks.


The MacBook and MacBook Pro are 0.95 inches in thickness.
The MacBook Air ranges in thickness from 0.16 to 0.76 inches in thickness.


the 8.9 inch Dell Inspiron Mini 9 ranges from 1.07 to 1.25 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 inch Acer Aspire® One is 1.1 inches in thickness.`
the 10 inch Wind U100 ranges from 1.07 to 1.25 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 inch Dell Inspiron Mini 9 ranges from 0.75 to 1.24 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 Asus - Eee PC Netbook is 1.3 inches in thickness
the 10.2 inch HP - Mini Netbook is 1 inch in thickness.


Hmmm, are you sure that they "care more about thickness than footprint? If so, then the MacBook are clear winners. Perhaps I didn't understand the point.

I agree that $300 - $500 for a netbook is very much less than $999 or 1299 or 1699 or even higher priced MacBooks but then again you are comparing Apples with Oranges (or perhaps prunes).

Seriously, if all you want to do is surf the net then these low-powered, small display PC netbooks are probably pretty good and if all you want to do is basic word processing that is also probably fine.

An iPhone/iPod Touch is also pretty good too and a small display MacBook will blow all these PCs away ... when it comes out.
post #151 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apple only cares about it's statistical ranking if they are making money to achieve it. Then they market the crap out of that ranking. Apple is probably making more net profit from that single MB at rank 9 than the combined net profit of the 8 netbooks above it. The real testament here is that Apple is still in the top 10 with an item that is on average more than 3x the cost of the other items.

PS: How many non-netbooks, non-Macs trump out Apple's current product range on Amazon? This is why the Mac segment is half of Apple's profit.


But profit margin is not the only thing that business needs to worry about. Too many MBA types keep thinking of margins or total sales just because it is easier. Having one expensive model in a sea of cheaper ones may be okay for awhile, but the auto industry is looking at problems with business as usual.

The key is where are the new markets opening up? The disaffected Vista customers will not always be there. If you want to increase market share you have to change the mind of at least some of those netbookers and why not try? If netbooks don't take off, then they won't scavenge much of Apple's MacBooks anyway.

Lord help us from MBA's.
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post #152 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Thurman View Post

Like nearly all "journalists" this guy has no experience or financial education.

All economic slowdowns/recessions have a finite life. In the US the longest recession, since WWII, lasted 18 months. This one is now 12 months old. That means this has only 6 months to go before it too fades into our memories. That duration isn't anywhere near long enough to cause Apple any concern about "cash strapped" consumers.

I hate to break it to you, but this one is just starting. Wait until the horrible 4th quarter to finish, then look at employment numbers the first few months of next year...
post #153 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post

Unfortunately, the AA1 is junk. I cringe when I use the touchpad, and the buttons are awful. The keyboard isn't as responsive as I would like, and I miss OS X. Paying 50% more for a well designed, well built, OSX machine is a good value for the consumer, and can have solid margins for Apple.

I think you nailed it on the head as far as where Apple would likely enter this market.

It can use the same basic intermal hardware as other netbooks- ~1.6GHz Intel Atom, 1 GB or so of RAM, Intel 950 integrated graphics- but Apple can spend a bit more on the external parts (mainly casing and keyboard) and charge $599 for a very attractive and USABLE little unit.

I've installed Leopard on a MSI Wind, and it runs very well. It handles Expose and other GUI graphical touches just fine too, considering it has the same integrated graphics as the original MacBook.
post #154 of 256
Well, the number one thing netbook owners care about is price, which rules out the MacBooks for the general netbook shopper. But as far as FORM FACTOR is concerned, then I think the analyst was right- look at the recent trend towards 10 and even 12 inch netbooks- people are realizing that cramped keyboards and really small screens just don't cut it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanm105 View Post

Netbook owners ... care more about thickness than footprint? Mr. Gottheil perhaps you should check out the MacBooks VS the netbooks.


The MacBook and MacBook Pro are 0.95 inches in thickness.
The MacBook Air ranges in thickness from 0.16 to 0.76 inches in thickness.


the 8.9 inch Dell Inspiron Mini 9 ranges from 1.07 to 1.25 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 inch Acer Aspire® One is 1.1 inches in thickness.`
the 10 inch Wind U100 ranges from 1.07 to 1.25 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 inch Dell Inspiron Mini 9 ranges from 0.75 to 1.24 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 Asus - Eee PC Netbook is 1.3 inches in thickness
the 10.2 inch HP - Mini Netbook is 1 inch in thickness.
post #155 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by bokuwaomar View Post

Netbooks do not have the best benefit/cost ratio. Their form factor prevents it from being useful for much more than surfing the internet and online communication, and while that's fine for some people, it's hardly a step up from touch screen handhelds like the iPod touch, which can do the same job while being much smaller.

Have you used both extensively? I love the iPod Touch for what it is, but even a netbook is a significant stet up for many general computing tasks- surfing the web, email, office documents, etc.

Quote:
A lower specced notebook with excellent build quality would be a better value, since at least then it could be used for long periods of typing, which is important to far more people than simply being able to access the internet. Netbooks are simply being over hyped by geeks and analysts that know nothing. One of my friends bought an EeePC a few months ago and now it just sits unused next to her iMac and Macbook. Once she got over it's small size, it just became another gadget for random geekery.

I completely agree, which is why I think Apple could take the basic internals from a $350 netbook, and give a bigger screen and keyboard that you could comfortably touch type on. Boom- there's your $600 netbook. The basic netbook now uses a 1.6GHz Intel Atom and Intel 950 integrated graphics, which run OS X surprisingly well.

Quote:
Now, in regards to what Apple can do to better satisfy people who want a more portable notebook, the first step would be to get the price of the Macbook Air down. A lot of the expense is from using Intel's low power notebook processors instead of the Atom, which are more expensive than normal notebook processors. An obvious solution would be to use the Atom, which would reduce the price. However, I suspect the best solution may be to build a thin low cost Macbook around ARM processors, which would allow for much better battery life.

I don't think you start with the Air if you want to build a product than jumps down 3 or 4 price tiers. There's manufactuing and other design decisions that go into the Air due to it's price point, that couldn't be done in even a $999 computer. The Intel Atom is dirt cheap and absolutely fine, and can provide plenty of battery life and would require the least amount of R&D to build around. An ARM CPU would be fine too of course, if there was some signficant advantage to it in costerformance. I think it would be roughly a wash though.
post #156 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

It's a real shame that so MANY people don't see that it's expensive to make things smaller.. I am not wanting to target you specifically palegolas but really Apple can't just sell it for $600

Well, yeah I guess it's probably initially more expensive to develop the standards for a tiny computer that runs OSX, but that doesn't mean it must be marketed that way. The Air is super cool, but if it was priced and marketed as a product closer to its actual specs and capacity I'd say it'd sell in big numbers, and when production ramp goes up I think they could price it way lower.
If Apple wanted to develop an AIR for the consumers for $600 I say they could do it without compensating quality. Like they're doing with the new MacBooks. Wow, they look, feel and perform so hi fi pro polished and still selling at a reasonable price.
I'll quote Arnold: "Give these people AIR".
post #157 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

Well, yeah I guess it's probably initially more expensive to develop the standards for a tiny computer that runs OSX, but that doesn't mean it must be marketed that way. The Air is super cool, but if it was priced and marketed as a product closer to its actual specs and capacity I'd say it'd sell in big numbers, and when production ramp goes up I think they could price it way lower.
If Apple wanted to develop an AIR for the consumers for $600 I say they could do it without compensating quality. Like they're doing with the new MacBooks. Wow, they look, feel and perform so hi fi pro polished and still selling at a reasonable price.
I'll quote Arnold: "Give these people AIR".

The MBA is priced competitively. The others PCs vying for the MBA's market costa right around the same and couple actually cost more. These machines use the same 13" display, 1.8" 120GB HDD, and SFF CPU.

I don't think you are considering that the 1.6GHz CPU that you can get in the MBA and its ilk and the 1.6GHz CPU that you get in netbooks have a $300 (per 1000) price difference. The HDDs are 1.8" v 2.5" the displays are small, cheap TN panels, while the MBA uses what appears to be an LED-backlit IPS panel. Then their is the cost of the case and quality of the keyboard the fact that it now has a GPU capable of powering a 30" display, etc.
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post #158 of 256
Leave it to Apple to wait until after the holiday rush to unveil a new product--millions lost just so Mr. Jobs can run his dog and pony show in January.
post #159 of 256
I am surprised that Steve Jobs is so out of touch with reality. As mentioned on Engadget not long ago, Amazon indicated that out of their 10 laptop best sellers, 9 were netbooks. The one exception? The 13-inch Mac.

Many people buy netbooks as "a spare" but I suspect that many --especially students-- will make do with these really portable devices, for a good while -- until they get their first job after graduation.

That the iPhone, crippled to death as it is, can be used as a netbook has got to be the joke of the year.

1-The crippled Bluetooth prevents the use of a decent size wireless qwerty keyboard. Foldable keyboards on Berries, Windows Mobile and Symbian are about $75 on eBay.
2-No Cut & Paste (!)
3-No docking station for a larger display or keyboard.
4-Can't be used as a modem.
etc.

As it is, the iPhone is a cure for which I have no known disease. If I had an iPhone I would have to carry a full-size overpriced laptop with me most of the time. That ain't gonna happen as long as I have better options.
post #160 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The MBA is priced competitively. The others PCs vying for the MBA's market costa right around the same and couple actually cost more. These machines use the same 13" display, 1.8" 120GB HDD, and SFF CPU.

I don't think you are considering that the 1.6GHz CPU that you can get in the MBA and its ilk and the 1.6GHz CPU that you get in netbooks have a $300 (per 1000) price difference. The HDDs are 1.8" v 2.5" the displays are small, cheap TN panels, while the MBA uses what appears to be an LED-backlit IPS panel. Then their is the cost of the case and quality of the keyboard the fact that it now has a GPU capable of powering a 30" display, etc.

The Atom dual core costs $43...just a little different.
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