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Economy, opportunity seen leading to $599 Apple netbook - Page 2

post #41 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I going to assume your not just being a troll here (cause you said you weren't), but this stuff above is just 100% BS.

You are faulting the company with the best design chops, the highest build quality and the highest customer satisfaction rate in the entire industry over the last 20 years or so (and they lead the pack by a huge amount in all three) for ...

poor quality products?

Absolute nonsense.

Yes, poor quality. Look at the display on the Macbook. For a $1300+ machine, it's utter garbage. Also, I'm not impressed with the metal unibody. It dents easily and hinders wifi reception. Let's not get into the widespread problems the plastic Macbooks had with their cases.

Sure, there are always lemons in the batch, but Apple has been increasingly cutting corners while maintaining their unwarranted premium pricing.

I wanted to buy a new Macbook, but after seeing it in person, I couldn't justify throwing away $1300 on something that had a display worse than other displays I've seen in less expensive (or better spec'ed) notebooks.

The sad truth of the matter is that lots of people already have OS X running on various netbooks (albeit not without some hacks), so unless Apple whips up something that will excite both the fanboys and new Apple buyers, I'd say they're going to miss the bus with this one.

But like Steve said, he'd rather people buy and iPhone/iPod touch, anyway, than have to sell a low-cost netbook.
post #42 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Who wants one now? Whoever wanted it already has it. I don't think it something to aspire towards- an underperforming large sheet of metal. Small, not large is the way to go. Analysts have already stated it's underperforming for Apple.

The constant bashing of the Air is tiring.

As I type this message on my Air, I recall the several hours of great work I put in on it earlier today and yesterday: planned an entire project, recorded and edited sample audio for said project, edited photos and video for a presentation, prepped a presentation and even threw together the first animatics for the the first couple of units. Everything was then presented at a meeting (again using the Air), the idea got a green light and I now get to use my Air to write the whole script within the next two weeks. Apps I used include: Logic, ToonBoom Studio, ToonBoom Storyboard, Pages, Keynote, iMovie, iPhoto, QuickTime Pro, Narrator, Curio, PhotoBooth, Curio, Safari, Mail and iCal. Oh, and I put everything on my private homepage using iWeb, including PDFs, movies, stills and animations. Yeah, along the way it was connected to a Wacom tablet, a Canon camera, a Canon HD video cam, my iPod, an M-Audio USB audio interface and two mics recording in stereo.

The only reason an Air would be underperforming is if the user was underperforming.


BTW, the Air is still listed as #4 on the top sellers list at Apple... It has been there or higher since its release.

 

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You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #43 of 256
Can there be anymore more double speak included in this guy's analysis?

First he says that Apple has reached a point were there will not be anybody buying their notebooks anymore:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

these are now being joined by cash-strapped customers even within the US, making it that much less likely any of them will pay Apple's minimum asking price. At $999, the least expensive MacBook is twice or more the cost of the most frugal Windows alternatives, Gottheil says.

"It is too much to ask consumers to pay more than twice as much for a PC in these times," the analyst says.


Followed up by stating that Apple has to risk cannibalizing some of the sales of higher priced notebooks, yeah the ones that no one will be buying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

As with most Windows PC makers, Apple would reportedly have to accept the risk of cannibalizing sales for some of its more lucrative notebook models but could theoretically maintain its profit margins and continue to grow its Mac shipments ahead of the industry curve.

So which is it? Apple is going to come to a screeching halt in the notebook category.

-OR-

Apple has to make a mad dash for the no margin, low spec netbook market and risk losing some of their sales to this category.

It is enough to make one laugh. Is it any wonder that the stock market is in a shambles, just look at the idiots who are the supposed analysts. Maybe it is analysts like this one that are in danger of going away, and not to soon either!
post #44 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Like the MacBook Air ultraportable, this future system would be at least as thin and light as others in its category but would potentially have a larger surface area to allow a larger display or more comfortable input. Netbook owners carry their systems "in stacks with papers and books" and care more about thickness than footprint, according to Gottheil.

bullshit. Why is the bezel on the MBA larger than any of the other portables? The larger footprint is a direct result of the thinness, because you have to pack a big processor in there. The MBA processor is a very capable one, only slowed down by memory and bus limitations. It's nowhere near a netbook (not that I want it to be). But a 13" screen with the same footprint as a 15" MBP is pretty lame. Why this obsession with thin? The 12" powerbook was the perfect size footprint, and it could be made much thinner with today's components, while still maintaining a full keyboard and "comfortable" input. The MBA was the ultimate of compromises, and it failed miserably. If it hadn't, you would've heard the 'netbook crowd hush up as they flocked toward it. That didn't happen.

Can I have a show of hands of those who care more about footprint than thinness?
post #45 of 256
Hot on the heels of the $800 laptop...


Glad to see you guys learned from the last experience. Of course, that was over a month ago.
post #46 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Thurman View Post

Like nearly all "journalists" this guy has no experience or financial education.

All economic slowdowns/recessions have a finite life. In the US the longest recession, since WWII, lasted 18 months. This one is now 12 months old. That means this has only 6 months to go before it too fades into our memories. That duration isn't anywhere near long enough to cause Apple any concern about "cash strapped" consumers.

This is just another bullsh*t article based on nothing more than the author's desire to generate hits.

Complacency Greg. This isn't a US recession. It's a global recession. Tweak your figures a little.
post #47 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by robogobo View Post

bullshit. Why is the bezel on the MBA larger than any of the other portables? The larger footprint is a direct result of the thinness, because you have to pack a big processor in there. The MBA processor is a very capable one, only slowed down by memory and bus limitations. It's nowhere near a netbook (not that I want it to be). But a 13" screen with the same footprint as a 15" MBP is pretty lame. Why this obsession with thin? The 12" powerbook was the perfect size footprint, and it could be made much thinner with today's components, while still maintaining a full keyboard and "comfortable" input. The MBA was the ultimate of compromises, and it failed miserably. If it hadn't, you would've heard the 'netbook crowd hush up as they flocked toward it. That didn't happen.

Can I have a show of hands of those who care more about footprint than thinness?

I believe the objective of the Air was to reduce weight with one critical feature that could not be compromised. That is the keyboard.

The keyboard had to be full size.

From there the footprint was determined.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...th_review.html
post #48 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


The MBA is selling quite well

Based on what?
post #49 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Who the hell wants a POS netbook with a pissant screen other than bored commuters in heavy urban centers that use rails and need an hour to distract themselves?

No one interested in serious computing of any measure is going to jump on the crippled system bandwagon.

1) You make the false assumption that everyone is interesting in serious computing. This is not true, the vast majority of people surf the web, chat, check their email and listen to music or watch YouTube on their system. That doesn't require a $1000+ system.

2) Portability and Cheap is the key. So you can sling it in your bag every day and not notice the weight, unlike a 5lb laptop. SO if it breaks, you won't be crying over your $1000+ investment.

3) My netbook has a higher resolution than my iBook. Text is beautifully crisp. I can't justify £719 for the base MacBook right now, certainly not the £900 for the aluminium model, hot as it is. However I could justify £205 for this netbook.

4) What do I use it for? Web surfing. IM. Email. Checking what's on TV when I'm at home. I even got accelerated 3D desktop working in Linux...

5) I can even do work on this thing, as I'm a programmer. It's not the most comfortable experience, but at least I'd have the device to hand!

6) The build quality on this device is great. Aluminium. Decent keyboard that I can type pretty well on. WiFi, bluetooth, 1280x768 display, 1GB RAM, 120GB HD ... the CPU is weak, but that's not what matters in this type of device.

And "use rails" indeed. Shows what you know about the reality of life.
post #50 of 256
OMG ... I am all alone it seems. I'd love a $599 portrait mode (heck why not iPhone-like orientation aware), light, wifi enabled, touch-gesture pad, device for reading web, mail and using iTunes. In fact it could just be an Phone in a larger format now I think about it. I type with two fingers now so an on screen keyboard at that size would be great for me. Maybe iPod Touch on steroids, US letter size, would be sufficient, i.e. no phone at all. What's the down side? Apple have all the technology there now to make this. It would only compete with iPod Touches and the size would prevent that happening much, it would have an entirely different user base.
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post #51 of 256
Everyone keeps saying that netbooks make no sense. I highly disagree. I'm a web developer with a 24" iMac at home hooked up to a second 24" monitor. That's where I do all my work. That's what I *need* to do my work. But I also spend a lot of time meeting clients in coffee shops and meeting rooms... etc... where the only thing I really need a computer for is to show a Keynote presentation and / or some JPG's and be able to send emails and surf the web. A $999 plastic MacBook is far too much computer for these basic tasks. I'm not willing to spend that much on a computer that I will NEVER use except for meetings. Plus it's big and bulky and a pain to carry around compared to a "netbook" or the Air. The Air would be great for meetings... but it's even more money! A LOT more money. I would be first in line to buy a simple, small, light, stripped down Apple laptop.
post #52 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post

Everyone keeps saying that netbooks make no sense. I highly disagree. I'm a web developer with a 24" iMac at home hooked up to a second 24" monitor. That's where I do all my work. That's what I *need* to do my work. But I also spend a lot of time meeting clients in coffee shops and meeting rooms... etc... where the only thing I really need a computer for is to show a Keynote presentation and / or some JPG's and be able to send emails and surf the web. A $999 plastic MacBook is far too much computer for these basic tasks. I'm not willing to spend that much on a computer that I will NEVER use except for meetings. Plus it's big and bulky and a pain to carry around compared to a "netbook" or the Air. The Air would be great for meetings... but it's even more money! A LOT more money. I would be first in line to buy a simple, small, light, stripped down Apple laptop.

That's two of us
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
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post #53 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipodrulz View Post

I would hate it if Apple released anything below 900$. It just makes the Apple brand look cheap, and crappy. And it allows all these other people to be carrying around a fruit logo when they shouldn't be. In the end Apple will just dilute their brand. Please Steve Jobs - don't do it!

Do you know the word "welfare"? It is quite impossible that apple would release a netbook, for the reason the they already have the Touch and iPhone, considering also what Steve Job's said.

Don't worry, only filthy rich people like you would be the one's owning Apple's product. And other trying hard poor people like me just to own one because of it's beauty.
post #54 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

Mac Mini? Though it hasn't been updated for over a year and is pretty crappy specs-wise.

You have a point, but if NVidia MB style hardware goes in it, count on the popularity going up more than it is now. They are very popular despite the crappy and below average performance. We have several at work and they do great for normal people doing normal jobs. They have really caught on as servers too. Any spec increase would be welcome and possibly eat at the MacPro sales a little. I know several would disagree but we bought a MacPro and if we had a Mini with NVidia in it, we would have.
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post #55 of 256
Ezra Gottheil doesn't sit on Apple's board of directors.

So I'll pass.
post #56 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipodrulz View Post

I would hate it if Apple released anything below 900$. It just makes the Apple brand look cheap, and crappy

As others have pointed out: iPhone, iPod touch, Mac mini.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HyteProsector View Post

Want an Apple netbook? Get a 12" PowerBook refurbished. Inexpensive, small processor, and practical. Maybe a smidge too big but none the less, it'll do the trick just the same.

You forgot to mention slow as hell. I still have my 7-year-old PB 12" and I watch the CPU meter spike into the high 80s just by having iTunes open. Not playing, just open. It's as heavy as a Macbook, not exactly aiming at the people who want a 2 pound netbook. And where are you going to find a refurb nowadays? The thing's been discontinued for years.

Many people here seem to fall into the same trap. If they don't want it, it's a terrible idea. I'd hate to see what Apple would be like if they were in charge. There'd be one notebook and one desktop.
post #57 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by t0x View Post

Yes, poor quality. Look at the display on the Macbook. For a $1300+ machine, it's utter garbage. Also, I'm not impressed with the metal unibody. It dents easily and hinders wifi reception. Let's not get into the widespread problems the plastic Macbooks had with their cases.

Sure, there are always lemons in the batch, but Apple has been increasingly cutting corners while maintaining their unwarranted premium pricing.

I wanted to buy a new Macbook, but after seeing it in person, I couldn't justify throwing away $1300 on something that had a display worse than other displays I've seen in less expensive (or better spec'ed) notebooks.

It's very sad, but I have to agree with you 100%. The new Macbook display is a joke and the omission of FW a deal-breaker for most creative users anyway.

But the same brick build with a 10/11" display would make a great solid netbook!

The Air might be a decent netbook for business people and soft travellers, but it seems way to fragile to be just thrown in a backpack, which is my idea of mobility.
For hard on the road use (including bumpy bike rides) I trust the conservative eeePC, MSi Wind and Lenovo S10 form factor much more than the stylish but anorexic Air design.

After they blew it completely with their new notebook line, a genuine netbook is Apple's last and only chance to get money out of me in the near future.
Otherwise they'll have to wait a few a more years until my 8-core Pro becomes obsolete...
post #58 of 256
Apple already has a net book. It is called an iPod Touch. It is fully capable at surfing the internet, and sending email. This is for less then three hundred dollars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Faced with the perfect storm of a bleak market and a boom in ultra-budget portables, Apple is believed by some to be readying its own take on the netbook for the first half of 2009.

Analyst Ezra Gottheil from Technology Business Research (TBR) cautions that Apple may no longer have the luxury of keeping its notebook pricing high when many buyers are much more concerned about price than they were even a few months ago.

The company has until now insisted on keeping its prices largely unchanged and instead has upgraded the specifications of its systems to maintain that price. That has kept its average selling price high but has also all but locked the company out of the entry-level and developing-world markets; these are now being joined by cash-strapped customers even within the US, making it that much less likely any of them will pay Apple's minimum asking price. At $999, the least expensive MacBook is twice or more the cost of the most frugal Windows alternatives, Gottheil says.

Gottheil dismisses the notion of an artificial premium on Apple products, noting that they often compete well for the features, but is certain that the Cupertino, Calif.-based company has reached a breaking point where perceived quality can't override genuine financial woes from customers.

"It is too much to ask consumers to pay more than twice as much for a PC in these times," the analyst says.

Moreover, the market is also understood to be shifting away from the Mac's traditional price range. The sudden explosion in the popularity of netbooks -- portables with 10-inch or smaller screens that are often based around low-power processors and meant for basic Internet use -- has pushed the price of a notebook to as little as $300. Apple can't ignore this, Gottheil claims.

But while the Mac maker's chief Steve Jobs has argued that the iPhone is netbook-like in fulfilling many of the same online roles, the researcher believes that the desire for a keyboard ultimately the usefulness of the iPhone for certain software and that something more is necessary.

Instead, he and TBR are confident that Apple will release a computer in the netbook class within the first half of next year, but one that doesn't obey many of the rules dictated by the industry. Like the MacBook Air ultraportable, this future system would be at least as thin and light as others in its category but would potentially have a larger surface area to allow a larger display or more comfortable input. Netbook owners carry their systems "in stacks with papers and books" and care more about thickness than footprint, according to Gottheil.

Crucially, he also takes to heart Jobs' assertion that $500 systems are typically "junk" and believes that Apple will price the system at $599. The figure would be just low enough to draw customers who would pass over the plastic MacBook but high enough to avoid the risk Apple's co-founder perceives in dropping the price particularly low.

As with most Windows PC makers, Apple would reportedly have to accept the risk of cannibalizing sales for some of its more lucrative notebook models but could theoretically maintain its profit margins and continue to grow its Mac shipments ahead of the industry curve.

While the market conditions are widely accepted and are potentially supported by rumors of an unknown device being tested at Apple that would more closely fit the bill, Gottheil's statements do contradict some of Jobs' own beliefs about netbooks and Apple's role in the marketplace. He believes netbooks are part of a "nascent" category that may not pan out and has said he would be "surprised" if large volumes of notebook buyers shifted to the very bottom of the price spectrum and created problems for Apple.

Still, TBR's analyst warns that buyers, including those looking at Macs, were "more cautious" even in the summer and that Apple in its current position would gain share mainly at the expense of its revenue as users opt for less expensive models whenever possible.
post #59 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

As others have pointed out: iPhone, iPod touch, Mac mini.



You forgot to mention slow as hell. I still have my 7-year-old PB 12" and I watch the CPU meter spike into the high 80s just by having iTunes open. Not playing, just open. It's as heavy as a Macbook, not exactly aiming at the people who want a 2 pound netbook. And where are you going to find a refurb nowadays? The thing's been discontinued for years.

Many people here seem to fall into the same trap. If they don't want it, it's a terrible idea. I'd hate to see what Apple would be like if they were in charge. There'd be one notebook and one desktop.

You're right a powerbook would be slow as hell, but it'd handle leopard way better than most netbooks would handle Vista. I envisioned the Air to have the same footprint as the 12" powerbook maybe even a tad smaller due to the aspect ratio of the monitor. I sure as hell hope the 2nd Gen. Air has a smaller footprint.

Oh yeah, and as to where you can find a powerbook, theres this little website called eBay. Also you could try Googling "used Apple computers", isnt that where most people start their internet search?
post #60 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Apple already has a net book. It is called an iPod Touch. It is fully capable at surfing the internet, and sending email. This is for less then three hundred dollars.

Yeah, I just love doing my web surfing on a 3.5" screen with no physical keyboard

You do realize that the iPod touch is nowhere near as fully featured as a netbook, right?

I use my netbook as my primary computer. If I had a touch instead, what would I use to sync it? Oh, right, I'd have to buy a real computer for the touch to be at all usable.
post #61 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

WE NEED THOUSANDS for our University:

- Light (about 300 to 400 g). The MacBook Air is too heavy for us!

Is your university located in Munchkin Land?
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post #62 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by t0x View Post

You do realize that the iPod touch is nowhere near as fully featured as a netbook, right?

And do you realize that a netbook is no where near as portable as an iPod Touch, or as useful as a regular notebook. Their certainly is a market for netbooks, just as their is a market for the DIY PC aficionados, but that doesn't make them a market segment Apple want to get in to.

I have a MSI Wind with OSx86 installed. There are quirks, but it works well enough for when I'm backpacking it. I still have my iPhone with me, which I use predominantly for email, websurfing, IMing, and every other normal aspect of internet computing, even replying to forums now that they fixed the Safari issues. It's just so much more convenient, easy to use, and feature filled enough to do what I need it to do.

I keep the Wind for when I'm writing abroad. Real writing, not just internet based replies, so it has it's purpose, but it won't fit in my pocket and it does lack many features that OS X iPhone has buit in or can be easily DLed from the App Store. But it also gets shelved as soon I'm near a "real" computer because the keyboard is far from ideal for long term writing. You are okay with it as your main computer but do you think this would fly with most people who just want something convenient for emails, websites, IMs and such?
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post #63 of 256
The iPhone/Touch is the mobile platform. Any 'netbook' type device will be built up from that, not down from the MacBooks. I've always assumed that there will be an 8" version of the iPhone at some point... and I'm sure there is. When and whether it gets released depend on a whole slew of technological and economic factors.
post #64 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Proof? (Unless you're blowing smoke......)

Why the need to prove something that is common knowledge? Really every idiot that got drawn in by Apples marketing even with AIRs glaring ommisions has purchased one. Sales on the device dropped like a rock after the mad rush and the follow on poor performance reports.

Like it or not the AIR was poorly speced at the onset of design. That was further complicated by poor engineering that resulted in AIRs that simply don't operate up to the expectations of the owners.

It will be interesting to see if the revised AIRs can address the reliability issues and AIRs ability to meet performance expectations. Even if it does it still sits on the market with a limited feature set and a very bad reputation. AIR is simply a very limited appeal machine. It is niether a netbook nor a real laptop as such does not appeal to either group.


Dave
post #65 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyteProsector View Post

You're right a powerbook would be slow as hell, but it'd handle leopard way better than most netbooks would handle Vista. I envisioned the Air to have the same footprint as the 12" powerbook maybe even a tad smaller due to the aspect ratio of the monitor. I sure as hell hope the 2nd Gen. Air has a smaller footprint.

Oh yeah, and as to where you can find a powerbook, theres this little website called eBay. Also you could try Googling "used Apple computers", isnt that where most people start their internet search?

You're guessing about how well the Powerbook works. I'm not. I use mine every day. Believe me, most people would never tolerate it. Besides, your point is wrong. Netbooks don't come with Vista. They either have Linux or Windows XP installed. And people who have seen demonstrations say that Microsoft has done some amazing work getting Windows 7 to run snappily on netbooks.

Do you know the difference between "used" and "refurbished"? Here's a hint: one has a full Apple warranty. One is in near new condition. The other can be anything short of a paperweight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinney57 View Post

The iPhone/Touch is the mobile platform. Any 'netbook' type device will be built up from that, not down from the MacBooks. I've always assumed that there will be an 8" version of the iPhone at some point... and I'm sure there is. When and whether it gets released depend on a whole slew of technological and economic factors.

Are you saying Macbooks aren't mobile? You're limiting its capabilities right from the get-go. Work from the Macbook down and you get the capabilities of a full computer, including theoretically even running iPhone apps, since that runs a subset of OS X (plus baseband, of course). Developers have said that if you know how to program for the Mac, you're ready to program for the iPhone. Work from the iPhone/touch up and you get a glorified phone/iPod that will never run OS X apps. Even now, it lacks many basic functions every PC in the world has had for decades, like cut & paste. Good luck moving files around, too, since there's nothing like the Finder.
post #66 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Thurman View Post

Like nearly all "journalists" this guy has no experience or financial education.

All economic slowdowns/recessions have a finite life. In the US the longest recession, since WWII, lasted 18 months. This one is now 12 months old. That means this has only 6 months to go before it too fades into our memories. That duration isn't anywhere near long enough to cause Apple any concern about "cash strapped" consumers.

This is just another bullsh*t article based on nothing more than the author's desire to generate hits.

Just because a recession ends doesn't mean that everyone suddenly gets jobs to pay for these gadgets! A company isn't going to start hiring people because it's out of the red again, it's going to wait 1-2 quarters to see if the growth demands more workers. Companies may get out of the recession in the middle of 2009, but "average joe" won't until beginning of 2010 when real productivity increases.
post #67 of 256
Apple will never make a $599 laptop. They have a netbook, it's called the MacBook Air and it's $1800. Why would the create another machine just to charge less money when they make a healthy profit on the Air?
post #68 of 256
Frankly this may be the most offensive and disgusting post I've ever seen on these forums!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ipodrulz View Post

I would hate it if Apple released anything below 900$. It just makes the Apple brand look cheap, and crappy.

You do realize that Apple has a large selection of products under $900 right now! Further the price you pay for a product has nothing to do with it's quality. If you honestly believe that paying more for the same hardware implies better quality then you really need to spend some time on education else you will go through life looking awfully ignorant.
Quote:
And it allows all these other people to be carrying around a fruit logo when they shouldn't be.

Well all I can say is that it is extremely clear that you are not the sort of person that should be deciding who can and can't own an Apple product. Frankly I budget my money like many others here and make personal decisions on what to buy to meet my needs. I don't really care if people around me use an iPhone or not, the same for their PC /OS choice.
Quote:
In the end Apple will just dilute their brand. Please Steve Jobs - don't do it!

What you fail to realize is that Apple really has no choice but to market to and have products for mass sale. They have simply grown to the size where there simply isn't enough money in the snob market for them to sustain business.

In any event your statements are without rational value as you seem to ignore the fact that Apple is the largest merchandiser of MP3 players going. That has done nothing to delute the brand but rather has enhanced it considerably. All of that with devices well under $900.


Dave
post #69 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by skellener View Post

Apple will never make a $599 laptop. They have a netbook, it's called the MacBook Air and it's $1800.

First and foremost AIR is a conceptual mistake coupled to some poor engineering. AIR is not a netbook and never has been. Steve has as much as admitted that this is the case considering his public comments on netbooks. Apple simply isn't playing in the netbook market right now.

Quote:
Why would the create another machine just to charge less money when they make a healthy profit on the Air?

Because AIR simply doesn't play in the market we are talking about here. No matter whose vision you follow here ( iPhone on steroids, a tablet Mac or a netbook), we are not taliking about anything being close to AIR in size.

Dave
post #70 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


But while the Mac maker's chief Steve Jobs has argued that the iPhone is netbook-like in fulfilling many of the same online roles, the researcher believes that the desire for a keyboard ultimately the usefulness of the iPhone for certain software and that something more is necessary.

Instead, he and TBR are confident that Apple will release a computer in the netbook class within the first half of next year, but one that doesn't obey many of the rules dictated by the industry. Like the MacBook Air ultraportable, this future system would be at least as thin and light as others in its category but would potentially have a larger surface area to allow a larger display or more comfortable input. Netbook owners carry their systems "in stacks with papers and books" and care more about thickness than footprint, according to Gottheil.
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This is funny. Since when does Steve Jobs need to argue about what Apple products are going to be like. Its like this TBR analyst thinks he knows more about Apple product cycles then Jobs. Gottheil is saying that Apple does not know what they are doing and TBR does. If I was them, I would never come out and say that a CEO is lying about their future products. When it doesn't happen it just makes them look stupid. This would be more creditable if they had a source.

I am going to stick with what I always said about the Apple Netbook, anything bigger then the Touch is for people who need better eyesight. Here is my shameless plug. about the topic.
post #71 of 256
so steve says no to netbooks..yet this analyst still says they will...hmmmm
post #72 of 256
The gating factor, in my opinion, for Apple and netbooks is the form factor of the keyboard: I can't see Apple putting a smaller-than-standard keyboard on something that users expect to be a real keyboard.

Which means nothing you'd consider a netbook.

That doesn't mean that Apple isn't thinking of something that would cost $600-800 that you could do surfing and light email on, watch movies and play music on.

And it's not like Apple hasn't surprised the world before.

And for that matter, doesn't Apple already have something along the lines of something you can surf, do light email on, watch movies and play music on that's not a Mac?
post #73 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraklinc View Post

A netbook will never happen from Apple i think, why? who the heck is gonna buy the $1700 Macbook air then?

Right, right... never gonna happen.
post #74 of 256
The fear of cannibalized sales shouldn't be from other Apple products but from other manufactures. My co-worker who had purchased her first Mac a few years ago just bought an HP laptop for an an anniversary present. Her Mac book's harddrive and battery were shot. She was in love with the new macbook design and wanted a mac but they could only afford $500-$600 range.

In this one case Apple lost a sale to someone who had converted.

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All my life, I always wanted to be somebody. Now I see that I should have been more specific.
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post #75 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

...

Dave

Dave... again with the AIR?
The only truth you are saying is that the AIR "is neither a netbook nor a real (full features) laptop". That's right, but why should everything be in a strict category? why should everything be just black or white? The AIR is just another type of computer, either it fits your needs or it doesn't. If it doesn't that doesn't make it a bad product.

************

Back on the subject. I think there is room between the $399 iPod touch and the $999/1299 13" MacBook for a couple of products that would fit the netbook/notebook market before Apple can release a full Mac OS X tablet (or something like that).

1- MacBook mini (10-11") based on the 13" MacBook motherboard, still with a full keyboard (enclosure cut as close to the keys as possible (11.0-11.5" wide), 7.0-7.5" depth, no optical drive. Could use the MBA external ODD.

When the 13" MacBook is updated to 2.26/2.53GHz cpus or better (spring 2009), this MacBook mini could receive the leftovers (2.0/2.4GHz cpus). Apple could probably price those at $899-1099 and keep the 13" MacBook at $1299/1599.

Apply a modern Apple look on the Isamu Sanada mock-up below (image on the left).

Cons: more expensive and bigger than most netbooks, small trackpad
Pros: more powerful than any netbook, standard OS, standard apps

.

2- Bigger iPod touch (7" or so, 1024x600?), the best prototype mock-up I've seen so far, was from MacLife (image on the right):

Like 3 iPod touch side by side, it would do everything the iPod touch does + displays up to three apps at the same time + the dock (with alerts, email, etc...), stand-alone + sync with your Mac and/or your iPhone/iPod.

Additional apps: "Finder" + QuickLook so you can display almost anykind of file, Wifi software updates (no Mac needed). Some apps could be expanded to full screen (email, video, calendar, etc...)

Additional hardware: Bluetooth/USB for an external keyboard (or an integrated mini-keyboard that mimics the virtual keyboard of the iPod touch), video out. Stereo speakers, mic, iSight. It would probably need a multicore ARM cpu and better graphics GPU than the current iPod touch for all that (Summer 2009).

For storage, it could have the 1.8" 120GB HDD or SSD. Probably two models at $599/799. The prototype shows a rigid design, but I think it could be a folded one with 4 positions: closed, notebook, kiosk (as shown), tablet.

Cons: not really a "computer", not much editing capabilities
Pros: smaller than most netbooks (better autonomy), can be used by a larger audience (a real consumer product)

So, IMO, here are the possible $599 "netbook" and $899 notebook, "analysts" are dreaming/talking about...
post #76 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Like it or not the AIR was poorly speced at the onset of design. That was further complicated by poor engineering that resulted in AIRs that simply don't operate up to the expectations of the owners.

It will be interesting to see if the revised AIRs can address the reliability issues and AIRs ability to meet performance expectations. Even if it does it still sits on the market with a limited feature set and a very bad reputation. AIR is simply a very limited appeal machine. It is niether a netbook nor a real laptop as such does not appeal to either group.


Dave

I have an Air for work and as a mobile worker going from site to site, its perfect. At my prior job, I had a Dell Latitude 420. That was also perfect for frequent travels. The 420 also suffered from the same issues as the Air in that it was no where as fast as its big brothers but for what I use them both for, it is a fit.

What the heck is a Netbook anyways other then some term that Marketing made up leading Engineers to scramble to make a product to fit the need. How small does something have to be before you can call it a netbook? Does it have to have a real keyboard to be one? I always saw a Netbook as a small tablet system. FYI, Tablets never sold well and like the Air and Dell 420, they are for niche markets with little appeal to the masses.
post #77 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

You're guessing about how well the Powerbook works. I'm not. I use mine every day. Believe me, most people would never tolerate it. Besides, your point is wrong. Netbooks don't come with Vista. They either have Linux or Windows XP installed.


Alright bud, you missed the point completely here. I guess you didn't pick up on the implication, so I'll make it explicit. The point is that an Apple laptop does not need the newest Apple software to be a successful "netbook". All the netbooks on the market, as you so keenly pointed out (**claps hands for acomplishment**) run XP or Linux. Take it easy on the software, just like PC netbooks. That was the point.

Also, I think its a really good point as was stated at the top of page 2 that netbooks are too big to carry without a bag and too small to need a bag. They're right in the middle. Kinda akward. I agree.

Remember POGs? How about tiddly-winks to the older generations? Just a hot fad that died out. Same with netbooks. I don't doubt that they're selling like hot cakes now, but in a year? I doubt they'll have any staying power. Besides, I'd like to see the demographics of who is actually buying these things. I believe it to be hot only in a niche market right now.

Smartphones and hand-held portables seem like a viable solution, I must agree.


(Oh yeah for the record, I've owned 2 12" powerbooks, I buy and sell the things on eBay... I know all about 'em)
post #78 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyteProsector View Post

Alright bud, you missed the point completely here. I guess you didn't pick up on the implication, so I'll make it explicit. The point is that an Apple laptop does not need the newest Apple software to be a successful "netbook". All the netbooks on the market, as you so keenly pointed out (**claps hands for acomplishment**) run XP or Linux. Take it easy on the software, just like PC netbooks. That was the point.

If it doesn't need the newest OS, then why did you bring up Leopard? Why not say it would work fine with Tiger or even Panther?

Quote:
Also, I think its a really good point as was stated at the top of page 2 that netbooks are too big to carry without a bag and too small to need a bag. They're right in the middle. Kinda akward. I agree.

I'm usually carrying a bag of some kind anyway, so it's not a big deal. Go to the big city and nearly everybody's carrying a bag. I see guys in their 60s still lugging around knapsacks. Sticking another small device in there weighing a couple of pounds isn't awkward at all. A five pound slab of a laptop usually is, though.

Quote:
Remember POGs? How about tiddly-winks to the older generations? Just a hot fad that died out. Same with netbooks. I don't doubt that they're selling like hot cakes now, but in a year? I doubt they'll have any staying power. Besides, I'd like to see the demographics of who is actually buying these things. I believe it to be hot only in a niche market right now.

That's exactly right. "You believe." And a lot of people believed Apple would never make a cell phone. Others believed Steve when he said Apple would stay away from anything TV-related. You know what they say about people and their opinions.

Quote:
Smartphones and hand-held portables seem like a viable solution, I must agree.

We'll see who's right within a year.

Quote:
(Oh yeah for the record, I've owned 2 12" powerbooks, I buy and sell the things on eBay... I know all about 'em)

Yeah, you know all about them. I suppose your personally "refurbished" Powerbooks include the standard one-year Apple warranty? I didn't think so.
post #79 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by desides View Post

Am I the only person getting tired of netbooks? Fine, they make ultraportable notebooks intended solely for browsing the Internet and responding to email. Great! Why do we keep hearing about how great they are? They're narrow-use products. I'm already tired of the term netbook, just like how I got tired of the terms like "Web 2.0" and "blog" years ago. Enough.

Snow Leopard and a rumored $99 iPhone are bigger deals than an Apple netbook.

Well said dude Im just plain tired of it.
post #80 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

People like you are the reason there's a lot of hate for Mac users out there.

Whats wrong with what he said, netbooks are just part of the annoying complaints we have to deal with. Theybare cheapening the computer market, next people will be demanding 200 dollar macs.
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