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Over 100 fixes coming in Mac OS X 10.5.6 Update - Page 2

post #41 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by webhead View Post

"I'd like to see the annoying bug I discovered last night taken care of. Of course it may actually be a feature. I moved photos from my MicroSD to the trash and the memory count on the MicroSD didn't move down one bit. Every time I tried to copy a new file to the MicroSD card it said it was full. I had to empty the trash for the memory on the MicroSD card to free-up. That's just plain retarded for the OS to hold that memory hostage like that. The trash and the flash memory need to part-ways in one of these bug fixes."


This has been the standard feature for a long time, I think it predates OSX, but I could be wrong, seems like it has always been this way. You have to empty the trash before files are totally deleted. This is a safety feature to make sure you don't delete files accidentally. If files were deleted solely by dragged to the trash, users would complain they didn't get a second notification for files being deleted. I still have to Empty Recycle Bin on my windows computer at work before files are totally deleted as well, so its not a new or distinctly Apple feature either.

I remember having this issue with 744k floppies on my old Mac IIsi (OS 7.0.1) and on. It is a mac thing and can get a tad confusing. If you plug the MicroSD into windows you will find a folder called .Trashes and the files you wanted to delete will be there until you empty the trash in OS X (or you could just delete the file... though make sure you have "Show Hidden Files" selected in the View tab of Folder Options in your Windows OS. Not that one should boot to windows to delete files only... just saying in case you wanted to know just where the files resided. (I'm sure you can find a way to show the .Trashes folder in OS X too.)

But yeah, nothing new. Its a "feature".

What would be nice is if OS X would stop putting those Desktop.DS files EVERYWHERE and having a 4k file of ._filenamehere of every file you open on an NTFS/FAT32 partition (or at least a user accessible option to stop it from putting such silly files everywhere that clutter and take up space!)
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post #42 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by webhead View Post

"I'd like to see the annoying bug I discovered last night taken care of. Of course it may actually be a feature. I moved photos from my MicroSD to the trash and the memory count on the MicroSD didn't move down one bit. Every time I tried to copy a new file to the MicroSD card it said it was full. I had to empty the trash for the memory on the MicroSD card to free-up. That's just plain retarded for the OS to hold that memory hostage like that. The trash and the flash memory need to part-ways in one of these bug fixes."


This has been the standard feature for a long time, I think it predates OSX, but I could be wrong, seems like it has always been this way. You have to empty the trash before files are totally deleted. This is a safety feature to make sure you don't delete files accidentally. If files were deleted solely by dragged to the trash, users would complain they didn't get a second notification for files being deleted. I still have to Empty Recycle Bin on my windows computer at work before files are totally deleted as well, so its not a new or distinctly Apple feature either.


That makes sense to me now. I can see the benefits of this feature I suppose.

I would just figure for external storage devices the OS would prompt you to permanently delete the files or not. The OS knows it is external when it is connected via USB and it can figure-out the free space on the device too so it could be a little smarter. Obviously I'm tainted by my Windows experience.
post #43 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

I don't understand why they don't just hold 10.5.6 until the new hardware ships in January. That way all Macs would be running the same build of the OS instead of the rather idiotic "normal" situation where each new piece of hardware requires its own unique build.

I understand people are waiting for fixes now, but for a lot of people whether they release December 23 or January 6 is irrelevant.

What's the big deal if a new Mac isn't running the same build or version number of your Mac? It is still the same set of features. New hardware doesn't always get its own unique build. Even if it does, it doesn't offer any new features, it only adds support for new hardware. Most likely, the "new" Macs will be running a slightly older version of Mac OS X Leopard, since that is what they have been developed on.

My iMac G5 was released in Oct 2005. It shipped with OS X 10.4.2. The official release of 10.4.2 was three months earlier in July. When I bought the iMac in February 2006, Mac OS X 10.4.5 was already released. So it really didn't matter which version was shipped with my Mac, or which version was readily available at the time. In either case, it was running the current version after a software update.
post #44 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Drones of others??? What are you talking about? Why don't you give some examples of which Macs may be affected. I don't have any problems with my Macs staying connected to my wireless router. I don't think anyone else experiences your alleged problems with a wireless network.

I am sure you haven't and probably most users haven't. But if a small percentage have that still makes for a LARGE amount of people. LARGE amounts or DRONES are relative terms so I may be exaggerating in your eyes. Lets agree on the term MANY, and move on. Here's an article you may remember as a visitor to AI - http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._wireless.html

I used the search term 'wifi cuts out on macbook' when trying to solve my problem and discovered I was by no means alone. My brother cannot use the wifi on his iMac and my Macbook works but drops the connection after sleep.
post #45 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

We have the same problems with our iPhones. I only have the wireless "N" set up for the iPhones. The rest of the network is GB Ethernet.

The WiFi symbol shows up on the phone, but as soon as you try to use it, it drops to 3G. Can't figure that one out. The phone works on most other networks. I'm assuming it's the router, but, who knows?

The iPhone doesn't support wireless N. That's your problem. The iPhone only supports 802.11b/g.
post #46 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

What would be nice is if OS X would stop putting those Desktop.DS files EVERYWHERE and having a 4k file of ._filenamehere of every file you open on an NTFS/FAT32 partition (or at least a user accessible option to stop it from putting such silly files everywhere that clutter and take up space!)

Are you talking about the invisible DS_Store files? Do you know why they are everywhere? They hold the view settings information for each window. You can use Cocktail to delete them all, if you like, then all your custom window view settings will be gone.

I agree about the ._filename invisible files that appear when you copy files to a FAT32 partition (especially USB flash drives). Not sure what creates those. I used a utility to show all invisible and system files and I deleted a bunch that were invisible on my Desktop.
post #47 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

That makes sense to me now. I can see the benefits of this feature I suppose.

I would just figure for external storage devices the OS would prompt you to permanently delete the files or not. The OS knows it is external when it is connected via USB and it can figure-out the free space on the device too so it could be a little smarter. Obviously I'm tainted by my Windows experience.

It works that way for drives attached over the network. Why it should delete files automatically from external drives beats me, they can often be as permanent as the internal drive, especially when you have an iMac.
post #48 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I am sure you haven't and probably most users haven't. But if a small percentage have that still makes for a LARGE amount of people. LARGE amounts or DRONES are relative terms so I may be exaggerating in your eyes. Lets agree on the term MANY, and move on. Here's an article you may remember as a visitor to AI - http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._wireless.html

I used the search term 'wifi cuts out on macbook' when trying to solve my problem and discovered I was by no means alone. My brother cannot use the wifi on his iMac and my Macbook works but drops the connection after sleep.

Your earlier comment implied that every Mac user and every Mac has a problem connecting to a wireless network. A small percentage doesn't make for a large amount of people. A large percentage does. Have you thought about taking your Macs in for service to see if the wireless card is defective, or maybe a problem with the antenna? Or maybe your router is bad?
post #49 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

We have the same problems with our iPhones. I only have the wireless "N" set up for the iPhones. The rest of the network is GB Ethernet.

The WiFi symbol shows up on the phone, but as soon as you try to use it, it drops to 3G. Can't figure that one out. The phone works on most other networks. I'm assuming it's the router, but, who knows?

iphone only supports b/g wireless.
post #50 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Your earlier comment implied that every Mac user and every Mac has a problem connecting to a wireless network. A small percentage doesn't make for a large amount of people. A large percentage does. Have you thought about taking your Macs in for service to see if the wireless card is defective, or maybe a problem with the antenna? Or maybe your router is bad?

Which part of my earlier mail suggested to you that every Mac and Every user had this problem? A small percentage surely means a low percentage number. A low percentage of millions makes for a pretty high number. Did you follow the link I posted by the way? If you do you will see that this problem is wide spread and very hard to fix. In fact, there is no fix as of yet.
post #51 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

That makes sense to me now. I can see the benefits of this feature I suppose.

I would just figure for external storage devices the OS would prompt you to permanently delete the files or not. The OS knows it is external when it is connected via USB and it can figure-out the free space on the device too so it could be a little smarter. Obviously I'm tainted by my Windows experience.

It's much safer than the way its done in Windows.

Also, often, we need to "park" files in the trash for testing reasons, etc. If the files were removed every time we placed them in the trash, it could cause problems later, when we needed to put them back, esp. if they were system files.

It's the same reasoning Apple has used for decades about you not being able to remove something without first letting the computer know, so that it could first update the database on the removable media.

One reason why PCDOS and early Windows used to crash as much as it did was because it didn't do that. You could just remove a disk at anytime, without updating it.

Put it back and : Crash!!!

Safety is better than minor convenience.
post #52 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by federmoose View Post

iphone only supports b/g wireless.

I know, I already explained that.
post #53 of 70
annoying multi-post... nevermind
post #54 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's much safer than the way its done in Windows.

Also, often, we need to "park" files in the trash for testing reasons, etc. If the files were removed every time we placed them in the trash, it could cause problems later, when we needed to put them back, esp. if they were system files.

It's the same reasoning Apple has used for decades about you not being able to remove something without first letting the computer know, so that it could first update the database on the removable media.

One reason why PCDOS and early Windows used to crash as much as it did was because it didn't do that. You could just remove a disk at anytime, without updating it.

Put it back and : Crash!!!

Safety is better than minor convenience.

Agree, I often park files in the trash to see if the system works without them, it's a useful feature. I guess I'm just used to emptying the trash and don't see it as troublesome.
post #55 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by webhead View Post

Agree, I often park files in the trash to see if the system works without them, it's a useful feature. I guess I'm just used to emptying the trash and don't see it as troublesome.

Exactly!

I've even had people complain to me that they thought the trash should be emptied automatically every time they shut their machine off!

Sheesh!
post #56 of 70
So- 64 bit support for macs made in early 2008 only? Why? My MBP has a core duo processor, and i bought it end of last year why the hell would it not use 64-bit stuff?
post #57 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

So- 64 bit support for macs made in early 2008 only? Why? My MBP has a core duo processor, and i bought it end of last year why the hell would it not use 64-bit stuff?

Oh NOs!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Additionally, the notes show hardware support for Snow Leopard's 64-bit kernel to remain limited to Macs introduced during the first half of the year, namely the early 2008 Mac Pro, early 2008 iMacs, and early 2008 MacBook Pro.

Apple will extend 64-bit kernel support to additional Macs as Snow Leopard development progresses.

Whew...
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post #58 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Are you talking about the invisible DS_Store files? Do you know why they are everywhere? They hold the view settings information for each window. You can use Cocktail to delete them all, if you like, then all your custom window view settings will be gone.

I agree about the ._filename invisible files that appear when you copy files to a FAT32 partition (especially USB flash drives). Not sure what creates those. I used a utility to show all invisible and system files and I deleted a bunch that were invisible on my Desktop.

Yes, I meant the DS_Store files, and also, I know what they do. Personally, I don't care if my folders look the same next time I open them (I prefer them all to look the same). But, its really annoying when using a central server that Macs and PCs use to see these files in each folder. Yes, there are utilities that do this, but I think Apple should make it an option in their OS under System Prefs: Appearance that way their OS truely does "Play nice with Windows"

Those on my company server keep asking me "What are these files, and do I need to keep them?" It confuses many folk who don't know, and leave the files, only to find a bunch of them everywhere when they do a search with something that has "DS" in the filename, or "Store" (the last one being very frequent)


As for the ._filename, you can thank Spotlight for that as it stores metadata there. Again, an option would be wonderful. But nope... gotta do it the Apple way.

Always the Apple way... even if you don't use it, you'll see it if someone else does. Blah. Annoyances are all they are really... but so is the Blue Screen of Death and Vista!
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post #59 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I moved photos from my MicroSD to the trash and the memory count on the MicroSD didn't move down one bit. Every time I tried to copy a new file to the MicroSD card it said it was full. I had to empty the trash for the memory on the MicroSD card to free-up. That's just plain retarded for the OS to hold that memory hostage like that.

This story reminds me of the very first "family & friends" tech support incident I had to deal with:

It was around the time that Windows 95 first came out, and I had been mostly using DOS up to that point (found it much quicker to use than Windows 3.1, and I couldn't afford a Mac). The father of a friend of mine was having problems with their new computer (running Win 95) and it turned out the problems were due to the fact that the hard drive was full. I tried deleting a bunch of files to clear up some hard drive space, but I found that the hard drive was still full. I was stymied for a while until I decided to investigate this thing called the "Recycle Bin". Sure enough, I could see all of the files I deleted in there, and by playing around enough, eventually figured out how to fully delete those files and recover the hard drive space.

So yes, even though the Trash/Recycle Bin analogy is commonplace to me now, I can relate to not comprehending why, when you delete a file, you don't immediately get the space back. However, it's certainly not a bug in the OS.
 
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post #60 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandros View Post

It works that way for drives attached over the network. Why it should delete files automatically from external drives beats me, they can often be as permanent as the internal drive, especially when you have an iMac.

I said prompt the user. I'm talking MicroSD memory for a camera. Is that so surprising that someone would want to permanently delete from a MicroSD card?

Networked drives are quite a different story from a USB or Firewire attached unit since they use a network protocol like TCP/IP.

Windows at least has the common sense to ask you if you want to delete a file when it is too large for the trash bin, but not necessarily too large for the volume.
post #61 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post

This story reminds me of the very first "family & friends" tech support incident I had to deal with:

It was around the time that Windows 95 first came out, and I had been mostly using DOS up to that point (found it much quicker to use than Windows 3.1, and I couldn't afford a Mac). The father of a friend of mine was having problems with their new computer (running Win 95) and it turned out the problems were due to the fact that the hard drive was full. I tried deleting a bunch of files to clear up some hard drive space, but I found that the hard drive was still full. I was stymied for a while until I decided to investigate this thing called the "Recycle Bin". Sure enough, I could see all of the files I deleted in there, and by playing around enough, eventually figured out how to fully delete those files and recover the hard drive space.

So yes, even though the Trash/Recycle Bin analogy is commonplace to me now, I can relate to not comprehending why, when you delete a file, you don't immediately get the space back. However, it's certainly not a bug in the OS.

I comprehend "moving file to trash" especially when it is spelled out for you. I didn't connect the dots when I moved the image files to trash and the space was still used on the MicroSD drive. This works differently in Windows obviously for which I was used to.
post #62 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I'd like to see the annoying bug I discovered last night taken care of. Of course it may actually be a feature. I moved photos from my MicroSD to the trash and the memory count on the MicroSD didn't move down one bit. Every time I tried to copy a new file to the MicroSD card it said it was full. I had to empty the trash for the memory on the MicroSD card to free-up. That's just plain retarded for the OS to hold that memory hostage like that. The trash and the flash memory need to part-ways in one of these bug fixes.

Its not a bug, its always worked like that. If you delete anything from a removable disk it is kept until you empty the trash unlike windows where anything you delete is gone for good.
post #63 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I said prompt the user. I'm talking MicroSD memory for a camera. Is that so surprising that someone would want to permanently delete from a MicroSD card?

Networked drives are quite a different story from a USB or Firewire attached unit since they use a network protocol like TCP/IP.

Windows at least has the common sense to ask you if you want to delete a file when it is too large for the trash bin, but not necessarily too large for the volume.

In theory, because of some strange ways camera manufacturers implement their flash when they format them, it's not considered to be a good idea to do anything to a camera flash card other than in the camera.

That includes deleting files, adding files, or formatting the card.

That doesn't mean that most of the time there won't be a problem, but it isn't recommended.
post #64 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Yes, it was always thus. Same with Windows, ain't it?

Well, yes and no... Windows is dealing with Trashcan/Recycle Bin in a bit different way:

(from Wiki) Prior to Windows Vista, the default configuration of the Recycle Bin was to hold 10% of the total capacity of the host hard disk drive. For example, on a hard drive with a capacity of 20 gigabytes, the Recycle Bin will hold up to 2 gigabytes. If the Recycle Bin fills up to maximum capacity, the oldest files will be deleted in order to accommodate the newly deleted files. If a file is too large for the Recycle Bin, the user will be prompted to permanently delete the file instead. The maximum possible size of the Recycle Bin is 3.99 gigabytes in all versions of Windows except Vista. In Vista, the maximum is 10% for drives up to 40GB. Above that, the maximum is 4GB plus 5% of the capacity above 40GB.

Files in the Recycle Bin are stored in its physical location and renamed as D<original drive letter of file><#>.<original extension>. A hidden file called info2 (info in Windows 95) stores the files' original paths and names. When the user views the Recycle Bin, the files are displayed with their original names. When the file is "Restored" from the Recycle Bin, it is returned to its original directory and name. When the file is "deleted" by emptying the Recycle Bin, the space on the disk used by the file is designated as "free" without any changes being made to the file data itself. Future files will overwrite the data when they are saved on the disk. In other words, the data is not erased, but the address marking the data's existence is.
post #65 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

I said prompt the user. I'm talking MicroSD memory for a camera. Is that so surprising that someone would want to permanently delete from a MicroSD card?

Hold down the Cmd- button while dragging and dropping from one drive to another, and it converts from Copy semantics to Move. It will copy the file, then delete the original, just what you want.

Quote:
Windows at least has the common sense to ask you if you want to delete a file when it is too large for the trash bin, but not necessarily too large for the volume.

Why on *EARTH* would a file be 'too large for the trash bin', when all it is is a move on the same drive?!? Sounds like common sense to counteract a broken idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

Yes, I meant the DS_Store files, and also, I know what they do. Personally, I don't care if my folders look the same next time I open them (I prefer them all to look the same). But, its really annoying when using a central server that Macs and PCs use to see these files in each folder. Yes, there are utilities that do this, but I think Apple should make it an option in their OS under System Prefs: Appearance that way their OS truely does "Play nice with Windows"

In the Terminal: defaults write com.apple.desktopservices DSDontWriteNetworkStores true
Reboot.
No more .DS_Store files on networked servers.

Quote:
As for the ._filename, you can thank Spotlight for that as it stores metadata there. Again, an option would be wonderful. But nope... gotta do it the Apple way.

Actually, it's the Finder, not Spotlight, and yes, those are required on filesystems that don't support forks or metadata in some format. How else are you going to do it? :/ The prepended dot at least marks it as invisible by default to most GUI file browsers on Unix systems.
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post #66 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post

Actually, it's the Finder, not Spotlight, and yes, those are required on filesystems that don't support forks or metadata in some format. How else are you going to do it? :/ The prepended dot at least marks it as invisible by default to most GUI file browsers on Unix systems.

Right.

From Appledouble @ Wikipedia:

Mac OS X revived the use of AppleDouble; on file systems such as NFS and WebDAV that don't natively support resource forks, Finder information, or extended attributes, that information is stored in AppleDouble format, with the second file having a name generated by prepending "._" to the name of the first file (thus, this information acts a hidden file when viewed from a non-apple Unix-based operating system).
post #67 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post

Hold down the Cmd- button while dragging and dropping ...

In the Terminal: defaults write com.apple.desktopservices DSDontWriteNetworkStores true
Reboot.

Actually, it's the Finder, not Spotlight, and yes, those are required on filesystems that don't support forks or metadata in some format. How else are you going to do it?

All very good info, thanks!
post #68 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

RE 10.6 64 bit, boy am I glad I waited till I did to buy my Mac Pro, I'd be really pissed off if I didn't get all it offerdont oned on such an expensive beast. I pity those who were first to buy Mac Pros. Perhaps the 64 bit support will be coming in 10.6.1 for older Mac Pros? I also wonder if Adobe will quickly release support for it?

64 bit means nothing to most users. Effectively buying a mac pro has nothing to do with 64bit. I have a 8 core and for serious video and graphics work nothing comes close. Adobe is going to be lucky to make a major margin on cs4 so I dont think so. BTW if you own a 8 core mac pro how Are you developing as you say on your website?
post #69 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

RE 10.6 64 bit, boy am I glad I waited till I did to buy my Mac Pro, I'd be really pissed off if I didn't get all it offered on such an expensive beast. I pity those who were first to buy Mac Pros. Perhaps the 64 bit support will be coming in 10.6.1 for older Mac Pros? I also wonder if Adobe will quickly release support for it?

Should be glad you have waited because of other reasons. http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...p_of_cuda.html

But if you NEED it now, waiting makes little sense if you can afford it.
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post #70 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Drones of others??? What are you talking about? Why don't you give some examples of which Macs may be affected. I don't have any problems with my Macs staying connected to my wireless router. I don't think anyone else experiences your alleged problems with a wireless network.

Got my new Macbook last week, love it, but the wireless is hopeless, drops outs constantly. I've been using the same router for 2 years with a PC and never had any issues. I've been scouring the web and there are many many more people experiencing the same issues - most people point to 10.5 updates causing it, others have suggested the following work around (http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...80305053403936)
Fingers crossed 10.5.6 helps.
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