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post #81 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

The problem is, no one can predict the shape of that future, or when it will come.

In the meantime, ppl just wanna MMS.


...

It's not that people WANT MMS, it's all most people can use.

That's a very different situation.

I don't want MMS. I've never bothered to use it.

Over time, more people won't use it.

What happens to "standards" is that they melt away after they aren't needed.

If someone has a phone with MMS and e-mail, and they want to send a pic to someone with, say, an iPhone, an increasingly normal situation, what will they use? MMS? No!

As more phones come with e-mail, as I've been saying, more people will stop using MMS.

It's going to happen.

It doesn't matter if a trillion MMS's are sent every year now, even if the number is still increasing. That increase will first slow down before it starts to shrink. It will take years, then it will be sudden.

Like the way digital cameras took over the photo industry. It was very slow at first, as the cameras were expensive, and not very good. As they got better and cheaper, people bought more of them. At first, people shot both film and digital, but slowly stopped shooting film.

Then, at a point when digital cameras both became cheap enough and good enough, film rapidly dropped. Today, some people still shoot film, and will for a while, but film is effectively dead.

MMS and e-mail on phone will follow that same track.

At one point well over a trillion photos were taken each year over the world with film. How could anything ever beat that?

The same thing was true for 78's, 45 and long play Lp's, cassettes, and will of DVD's, and CD's.

Standard B/W Tv, and now SD color are all gone, or rapidly going.

Who wouda thunk?
post #82 of 350
Doesn't matter how many emails are sent on phones right now.

The point is that email is a larger system, more flexible, device agnostic, and free.

MMS is limited to phones, limited in the type of message, and costs money.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

But how many of those emails are sent on phones? Certainly a tiny fraction of the whole.

In any case, you can see that MMS is quite a popular technology.


...
post #83 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The number of MMS's sent doesn't matter. The number of faxes sent in some years was vast as well, but has shrunk significantly since e-mail.

MMS is an older technology. It's only been used because there was no other method to do what it does.

Now there is. E-mail is becoming more popular all the time.

As more phones get good e-mail capability, people will start using that over MMS, and eventually, MMS will fade away for most, except, possibly, for the cheapest phones.


Mobile email and IM may very well be the future, Mel. Thing is, MMS is the now.

It's not just that MMS is very popular (it is), it's that it's going to be popular for at least a few more years to come. Check out the year-over-year growth rates... MMS is becoming MORE popular and more used right now, not less. It's still on an upwards trajectory.

Let's say that email and IM take over five, ten years from now. Great. Doesn't really help the person who wants to MMS right now. His friends and family all use MMS. Citing the future to them will get quizzical looks at best.

There's "skating to where the puck will be", and then there's "waiting patiently outside the factory where the puck is being made, waiting 'til it's made, shipped, delivered, and THEN skating to where the puck will be."

You see my point. But FWIW, I don't think we're worlds apart here. I think our main difference is over timing, and what's most practical in the meantime.

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post #84 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

I really, really doubt it.

If you check out the figures, the year-over-year growth rates in MMS traffic for many carriers are VERY high (like on the order of 50%, 100%, even 250%), and are not explainable simply by 'more people are getting phones'.

Take Verizon, for example. Their year-over-year increase in MMS traffic is 144%. Verizon has not more than DOUBLED in number of subscribers in the past year. That increase is more like 10%.

So, either MMS pricing is becoming more attractive (and Verizon is offering some nice MMS 'plans' these days), the technology itself is being more popularized on its' own, or it's some combination of the two.

It's also probably somewhat generational.

...

Even if MMS numbers look promising, they could be (and likely are) the result of...a lack of options. Most dumbphones lack email clients, web browsers, and decent IM clients. If people had a real choice, many would likely email photos for free rather than being charged for the same basic functionality with MMS.
False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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post #85 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

I really, really doubt it.

If you check out the figures, the year-over-year growth rates in MMS traffic for many carriers are VERY high (like on the order of 50%, 100%, even 250%), and are not explainable simply by 'more people are getting phones'.

Take Verizon, for example. Their year-over-year increase in MMS traffic is 144%. Verizon has not more than DOUBLED in number of subscribers in the past year. That increase is more like 10%.

So, either MMS pricing is becoming more attractive (and Verizon is offering some nice MMS 'plans' these days), the technology itself is being more popularized on its' own, or it's some combination of the two.

It's also probably somewhat generational.

...

Doesn't matter.

It simply doesn't. All it means it that the number of phones, esp in the less developed regions have been buying phones at greater rates, which matches the industries growth. When phone growth slows that will too. Once better smartphones begin replacing those other MMS only phones, MMS will begin to slow.

These current trends mean nothing.

You'll see.
post #86 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Doesn't matter how many emails are sent on phones right now.

The point is that email is a larger system, more flexible, device agnostic, and free.

MMS is limited to phones, limited in the type of message, and costs money.


Doesn't matter if email can make me mixed drinks. In the here and now, ppl widely use, and want MMS.

I can cite chapter and verse to you how great fuel cell cars will be in the future, won't matter to you if you want to get around town right now.

...
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post #87 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Just passin' through:

Sure, things like MMS are just fringe features that only a few crackpots would want and... oh wait. It's exactly the opposite of that:

.

Again, depends on what market Apple wants to focus on first. Its called a 'plan', and evidence shows that Jobs is executing better than ANYONE else in the industry.
As for MMS, I think that's a classic example of niche (yes I said it... 'niche') market for kids, at least at the moment. Apple is losing nothing by having that as a future feature, and focusing on what the vast market really wants... great implementation of the 80% rule with real dev platform.
'Hey Dig Me' photos and video clips zooming between self-absorbed buddies is not prime functionality.

(and now even Melgross has someone he can point to as really beyond the pale...
post #88 of 350
I think the problem is that a lot of people are jealous of all the attention and spotlight the iPhone and Apple products recieve, this just gets to them.
post #89 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Mobile email and IM may very well be the future, Mel. Thing is, MMS is the now.

It's not just that MMS is very popular (it is), it's that it's going to be popular for at least a few more years to come. Check out the year-over-year growth rates... MMS is becoming MORE popular and more used right now, not less. It's still on an upwards trajectory.

Let's say that email and IM take over five, ten years from now. Great. Doesn't really help the person who wants to MMS right now. His friends and family all use MMS. Citing the future to them will get quizzical looks at best.

There's "skating to where the puck will be", and then there's "waiting patiently outside the factory where the puck is being made, waiting 'til it's made, shipped, delivered, and THEN skating to where the puck will be."

You see my point. But FWIW, I don't think we're worlds apart here. I think our main difference is over timing, and what's most practical in the meantime.

...

I don't care abut the "now". I'm not talking about the "now".

The now is only important for a short while.

You can take a slice of time from anywhere you like, and call it the "now". Look to see what was important, and see if it's important today. Chances that many things that were, either aren't, or may not even be remembered.

In five years, e-mail will be far more important that it is today on phones, and MMS will be far less important.

I don't miss MMS at all, and I know lots of people with iPhones. none of them seem to miss it either.
post #90 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Simply not true, I have a very good track record in predicting technological trends. But I can see why you may have difficulty in that area. No offense.

That's quite a brazen statement, where is this track record?
post #91 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

All it means it that the number of phones, esp in the less developed regions have been buying phones at greater rates, which matches the industries growth.

Umm... whaaa? Phones are buying phones? What are you trying to say here?


Quote:
When phone growth slows that will too. Once better smartphones begin replacing those other MMS only phones, MMS will begin to slow.

These current trends mean nothing.

You'll see.

Again, I don't think you're understanding that our current disagreement is mostly about time. Eventually, what you say (which I largely agree with, btw), will come to pass.

But now, and in the near-term, MMS will continue to be quite the workhorse. And something that ppl want.


...
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post #92 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

As for MMS, I think that's a classic example of niche (yes I said it... 'niche') market for kids, at least at the moment.


120 billion MMSes per year and growing rapidly is not a niche. Sorry.

I do like the "those damn kids" aspect of your post though. Makes me visualize an old guy shaking his fist at kids playing on his lawn.




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post #93 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Doesn't matter if email can make me mixed drinks. In the here and now, ppl widely use, and want MMS.

I can cite chapter and verse to you how great fuel cell cars will be in the future, won't matter to you if you want to get around town right now.

...

The only thing that matters, and tells you anything about that is how well the iPhone is doing in the smartphone market as a whole, and how many other smartphones are coming out with similar e-mail features. All new smartphones are coming out with similar e-mail functions.

The fact that the iPhone has the greatest growth, and has already risen to a high level says something important. Obviously no iPhone user considers MMS to be so important that they refused to buy the phone because of it. Yes, I know that you can "assume" that some people didn't buy the phone because of it, but you can't prove a negative.

If Apple comes out with a $99 iPhone, as is assumed they will eventually do, then the sales of that will be great, and e-mail will become ever more important as other makers rush to duplicate that feature in a less expensive phone as well.

I see a number of phones having both for the near and medium future, but less so over time.
post #94 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't care abut the "now". I'm not talking about the "now".

The now is only important for a short while.


"A short while"? You mean, the lifetime of your average cellphone? It's a "short while" kind of market, when it comes to features. You might not care about the now, but many others do.

No MMS might not be a big deal in 2015. Right now, for many, it is. I don't think there's a way to argue around that, except to say that, for you, it's okay.

And that's fine. What about all the people who are not you?


...
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post #95 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Sure. This is why you're on an internet forum, rather than making money as a big famous tech stocks analyst.

No offense.


...

No offense taken. I have a long string of innovative and forward thinking achievements thanks.
There are many people on this forum who are not short of a few dollar, I think they come here for fun.
post #96 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Umm... whaaa? Phones are buying phones? What are you trying to say here?

Uh, I'm sure you understand that that was a typo.

The word was "people".

Quote:
Again, I don't think you're understanding that our current disagreement is mostly about time. Eventually, what you say (which I largely agree with, btw), will come to pass.

But now, and in the near-term, MMS will continue to be quite the workhorse. And something that ppl want.


...

I've made it very clear that I'm talking about the future, not now.

No one here can give a date for this turnover. I can't. But it sure will happen!

Will it be three years, five years, eight years? Who knows?

The economic situation can affect this in a big way. We already know that all phones sales projections are well down from just three months ago.
post #97 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeny View Post

The lack of a replaceable battery is what keeps iPhone users from ditching their iPods all together, has very little to do with aesthetics.

I wont use my iPhone as an ipod or dedicated video device in fear that I will run out my phone battery.

So you carry an iPod, a cell phone, and two cell phone batteries with you at all times? Or you could carry an iPhone and an external battery pack.
False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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post #98 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The fact that the iPhone has the greatest growth, and has already risen to a high level says something important. Obviously no iPhone user considers MMS to be so important that they refused to buy the phone because of it. Yes, I know that you can "assume" that some people didn't buy the phone because of it, but you can't prove a negative.

I think many ppl, particularly overseas, didn't like the no MMS, but were willing to overlook it, especially once 3G came along, because the iPhone was breakthrough in some ways.

One thing we won't know, unless some sort of survey is done, is how many ppl didn't buy the iPhone because of it. However, given the initial lukewarm reception in Europe, I'd have to say it was likely a significant number, though other things contributed (price, no 3G at first, etc.)


Quote:
If Apple comes out with a $99 iPhone, as is assumed they will eventually do, then the sales of that will be great, and e-mail will become ever more important as other makers rush to duplicate that feature in a less expensive phone as well.

I see a number of phones having both for the near and medium future, but less so over time.

Sure. Eventually, mobile email and IM should start being very popular. But again, that isn't now. And I don't care that you don't care about now, because now is where I'm using my cellphone, not the future.


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post #99 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionGrey View Post

Yes the iPhone has a few key features that I hope they will add in the near future.
( not even key, how about features of convinience)

Cut and paste is not on the top of my list either.


1. I would like to see the ability to view Flash on web pages
2. Send pictures in texts
3. Editable text dictionary
4. Some of the bugs when you call and the screen turns off and won't turn back on.

There are more but I cant think of them now.

The feature I want more than anything relates to getting the phone stolen. I want to be able to pin-lock the iPhone from iTunes using my iTunes password. Then also have the iPhone email its location from time to time.

One reason why some people don't buy premium products is because they are worried about losing them and, maybe, getting stabbed/shot in the process. If the iPhone were well-known to be the phone that no thief should ever risk taking, that would be great.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #100 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I've made it very clear that I'm talking about the future, not now.


And I've made it very clear that I understand this and am sorta kinda agreeing with you, for some unspecified date in the future, though certainly not for now or the near-term.

So we're debating about, what, precisely?


...
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post #101 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

No offense taken. I have a long string of innovative and forward thinking achievements thanks.


I'm absolutely convinced that you do. In your own mind.

And you're welcome.


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post #102 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

"A short while"? You mean, the lifetime of your average cellphone? It's a "short while" kind of market, when it comes to features. You might not care about the now, but many others do.

No MMS might not be a big deal in 2015. Right now, for many, it is. I don't think there's a way to argue around that, except to say that, for you, it's okay.

And that's fine. What about all the people who are not you?


...

Two years, or so, is a short while.

I'm not denying that many people currently use MMS. I didn't dispute any of the numbers, did I?

What I'm saying is that there's a difference between using what's available, because its available, and using it because you think it's the best way to do it.

It's why most people here on this site are using Macs. Windows is surely the safer bet because vastly more people, companies, and governments use it, true?

But, the Mac is gaining marketshare at a fairly rapid pace, and has been.

Of course, overcoming the investments made in hardware and software, as well as knowledge of the OS and such, make it much more difficult to move from one computer platform to another than it is from one phone platform (if you can call most phones a "platform at all) to another.

So the Mac may never take over from Windows. But looking at e-mail on phones is very different. Every phone platform is now understanding just how many people want good, easy e-mail, and they are beginning to provide it.

After a while, companies will be able to put it on phones that aren't very "smart". It will be everywhere.
post #103 of 350
In any case guys, running the AI gauntlet has been fun, but I have things to do.

Take care, and Happy Holidays. Most especially to you, Mel.


...
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post #104 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

And I've made it very clear that I understand this and am sorta kinda agreeing with you, for some unspecified date in the future.

So we're debating about, what, precisely?


...

Consolidating our positions for everyone else?
post #105 of 350
"For years, tech critics like me have occasionally endured abuse from the Cult of Mac. If you write anything that even hints at a less-than-perfect Apple effort (like my reviews of, for example, the original Apple TV, iMovie '08 or MobileMe), the backlash is swift, vitriolic and heated. We're talking insults, vulgarities and even threats. I've always thought that that vocal sub-population of Mac fans make up the world's most watchful, most hostile grass-roots lobbying arm.

But now I see that I was wrong. There's an even nastier one: the BlackBerry nuts."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/04/te...&ex=1228539600
post #106 of 350
@ TBaggins,

It's likely not about MMS, but the functionality.

Do people like MMS because they like MMS? No, they like MMS because it allows them to send pictures to friends. Email provides the same functionality...only free. Providing official support for MMS would have been redundant when email works just as well, if not better. Obviously, Apple didn't cut a very crucial feature, otherwise...the iPhone wouldn't be selling like gangbusters!
False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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post #107 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

No offense taken. I have a long string of innovative and forward thinking achievements thanks.
There are many people on this forum who are not short of a few dollar, I think they come here for fun.

Yup, I'm here for fun! And watching this exchange has been fun!

My 2 cents: MMS is already huge today, is still growing globally, and is a key source of carrier revenue (so very much encouraged by the carriers). I believe Apple did not implement MMS because MMS is "limited" to cellphones, and Apple wanted to move people to the Interweb and standards-based email. And by virtue of iPhone's success, it could "force" other cellphone makers to include email, and so eventually kill off MMS. Including MMS on iPhone would not provide that "forcing" function. Apple bet that they could get away with it and so far they have.

I think Apple traded SMS for greater control, and though preferring to not ever implement MMS, it still holds MMS as a trading chip to get other carrier concessions (if and when needed).
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
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"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
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post #108 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

In any case guys, running the AI gauntlet has been fun, but I have things to do.

Take care, and Happy Holidays. Most especially to you, Mel.


...

You too!

post #109 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Mobile email and IM may very well be the future, Mel. Thing is, MMS is the now.

Yah, but with the really annoying fees for MMS and SMS I think the carriers are well on their way to killing that form of texting in favor of IM and Twitter.

Of course, without backgrounding on the iPhone, those kinda apps are crippled at the moment unless part of the iPhone core...so I don't disagree that Apple should have offered MMS apps on the iPhone but I wonder how much is AT&T dragging it's heels. Heck, they still haven't gotten a tethering plan together yet.

You can't really blame Apple for that.
post #110 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by wobegon View Post

By your logic, any company that makes anything is "dictatorial" if they don't deliver everything everyone wants from day one.

Where's the BlackBerry Bold's (or Storm's) visual voicemail, MultiTouch gestures, and 3D games? Ooh, those BlackBerry dictators are so cruel!

Also, how would one scroll with the Home Button?

It's not my logic and you are missing the point my friend!

I was not the one that used the word "dictatorial"! Just repeating it. So it is not my philosophy, it's someone else.

I am not Greg Joswiak who said 'copy and paste is low on Apple's priority of things to do'!

Why isn't there cut and paste? Apple has a priority list of features, and they got as far as they could down that list with this model, Joswiak said. In other words, they don't have anything against cut and paste. They just judged other things to be more important

http://www.appscout.com/2008/07/appl...ps_cut_and.php

Just pointing out that "with the ability to add just about anything else as demand requires" isn't an absolute that Apple is going to follow. And I'm just repeating that quote too. Again it is not my company position, it's Apple.

Man, now I know what Rush Limbaugh goes through when he reads what others have written or has been quoted as saying what others said first and it gets implied that he, Rush, is the original source! Not so, just the messenger of the lead-ins to the stories. Gripe at him for his commentary afterwards but for not starting the conversation by pointing out what's been written or said. Jeesh!

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #111 of 350
SURRENDER DOROTHY*


*where DOROTHY = Every cellphone vendor that doesn't sell the iPhone.
post #112 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

It's not my logic and you are missing the point my friend!

I was not the one that used the word "dictatorial"! Just repeating it. So it is not my philosophy, it's someone else.

I am not Greg Joswiak who said 'copy and paste is low on Apple's priority of things to do'!

Why isn't there cut and paste? Apple has a priority list of features, and they got as far as they could down that list with this model, Joswiak said. In other words, they don't have anything against cut and paste. They just judged other things to be more important

http://www.appscout.com/2008/07/appl...ps_cut_and.php

Just pointing out that "with the ability to add just about anything else as demand requires" isn't an absolute that Apple is going to follow. And I'm just repeating that quote too. Again it is not my company position, it's Apple.

Man, now I know what Rush Limbaugh goes through when he reads what others have written or has been quoted as saying what others said first and it gets implied that he, Rush, is the original source! Not so, just the messenger of the lead-ins to the stories. Gripe at him for his commentary afterwards but for not starting the conversation by pointing out what's been written or said. Jeesh!

Apple didn't say they weren't doing it though. Some posters have been making statements that are assuming that Apple won't be doing it because they haven't done it already.

Writers on other sites who are themselves experts in this have said that adding cut and paste is difficult to do properly, and that;s why they are happy Apple didn't rush to get it in there. I don't see why they should get this out fast. I'd rather see it done properly.

Limbaugh us a right wing nut case. He says things that he should know better about, but he repeats them to forward his conservative philosophy.
post #113 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't miss MMS at all, and I know lots of people with iPhones. none of them seem to miss it either.

I've never sent a MMS in my life - in fact I wouldn't know how. I tried using a friend's Blackberry once but I couldn't figure it out at all - really awkward. But some of my technologically challenged friends seem to use MMS all the time to send photos to their families. Maybe because their parents don't have computers or it is the only way they know to send photos. Some people use features that others don't care about. Faxes are really bad technology but people still use it.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #114 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I've never sent a MMS in my life - in fact I wouldn't know how. I tried using a friend's Blackberry once but I couldn't figure it out at all - really awkward. But some of my technologically challenged friends seem to use MMS all the time to send photos to their families. Maybe because their parents don't have computers or it is the only way they know to send photos. Some people use features that others don't care about. Faxes are really bad technology but people still use it.

As more people get e-mail on their phones that is easy to use, they will realize just how limited MMS is, that it comes from an age before mobile e-mail.

Everyone (pretty much) uses e-mail, far more than use MMS.

An e-mail can be sent anywhere, not so MMS.
post #115 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You're not answering the question either.

It took until version 3 of Win Mobile before copy and paste arrived. RIM has had Blackberry's out for years now. Much longer than the iPhone.

As has been written elsewhere, copy and paste is NOT a simple thing to add, despite what you and a few others seem to think.

Whatever Apple does will last for the entire life of this platform, and so it must be done right. The way RIM does it isn't so wonderful, by the way.

As for the other "problems" you mention, other makers have their own.

I couldn't care in the least for a higher MP camera that delivers the crap that all phone cameras deliver. Big deal. While I'm pretty sure that when Apple comes out with a second gen iPhone, they'll upgrade that, it hardly matters. No cameraphone images I've ever seen are even close to the quality that even the cheaper compact cameras offer. The one cameraphone that did offer decent photo's was made by Samsung, from what I remember, and it never made it in the marketplace.

Would I like to see video? Sure, but not a big deal. Replaceable battery, I suppose it wouldn't hurt, but I've never used one in any of my smartphones, and I don't know anyone else who has either. Besides, there would be negatives going with that as well.

Apple had advertised for a lens engineer with experience in designing small lenses some months ago, or perhaps a year. The job description sure sounded as though Apple was looking to do something to a newer iPhone, so we'll see.

I'd much rather the first editions of new product platforms get it right with fewer "features", in the first place, and then build them up over newer models.

I'll keep my bitching down until a new model comes out sometime in 2006, perhaps around the ADC.

You are missing my point also. I'm not trying to answer the question.

Just merely adding to the back and forth between GQB and jfanning regarding "full feature" and "demand vs Apple grants you / dictatorial".

The copy and paste, battery, camera all were just pick-ups of other peoples gripes when the iPhone was first introduced and the release of the second version and the software updates. I have no gripes about the iPhone because I have no iPhone! Not yet.

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #116 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

You are missing my point also. I'm not trying to answer the question.

Just merely adding to the back and forth between GQB and jfanning regarding "full feature" and "demand vs Apple grants you / dictatorial".

The copy and paste, battery, camera all were just pick-ups of other peoples gripes when the iPhone was first introduced and the release of the second version and the software updates. I have no gripes about the iPhone because I have no iPhone! Not yet.

Ok, but your posts don't quite read that way.
post #117 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by wobegon View Post

Sure, but the rest of the world isn't 100% unsubsidized, anti-contract either.

You also seem to be ignoring my original point: the first generation iPhone was $500-$600 and was sold in the gray market because there was so much overseas demand. In addition, these iPhones were often sold at a premium by hawkers. Now the iPhone 3G is easily attainable in these countries at a lower price than what hawkers would charge.

Not sure what you are trying to get at really.

I can go to various locations (expansys, Komplett, 3G, Nokia stores, SE stores etc) and purchase a phone contract/lock free. I can go to Vodafone, O2, 3, Meteor, etc etc and purchase the same phone locked to that Network. I can also purchase an iPhone, locked to O2, no matter how much I pay, it is locked to O2, and O2 alone.

The reason people were getting those phones from the US were down to a few reasons.

1. They could be unlocked
2. The US$ was at an extemely low rate
3. You could not purchase the device anywhere else, making it a status symbol for some people.






Quote:
Originally Posted by wobegon View Post

Then why the hell did you bring it up!

Because everyone was talking about the US$199 model, which isn't the 1st gen model.
post #118 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Ok, but your posts don't quite read that way.

You can't honestly say that if you were reading jfannings and GQB's posts and then come to my "chime in" post, where it was I got what I said and where I was going with it, can you?

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #119 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Well if both are true, I can't find them.

Why don't you give us a definition of what you think full featured means?

Well lets go back to post 3...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I am not the one that started it, Daniel said it was full featured not me, if it is a game, maybe he shouldn't have added that part to the article, after all looking at the Apple Dictionary...

Full - not lacking or omitting anything; complete
Feature - A distinctive attribute or aspect of something

The iPhone is definitely not full featured


ok, a feature is something like bluetooth, now is A2DP implemented on the iPhone? No? According to bluetooth.com it doesn't support many of the bluetooth features

Ok, by definition, the iPhone is not full featured...
post #120 of 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

You can't honestly say that if you were reading jfannings and GQB's posts and then come to my "chime in" post, where it was I got what I said and where I was going with it, can you?

It seemed that way. If not, I retract what I said.
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