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iPhone seen as still too expensive, losing steam in fall - Page 3

post #81 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by afalkner View Post

My wife and I would both have an iPhone if AT&T weren't so damn expensive. I just can't justify it. We have tmobile and to switch we'd get less minutes and still pay more for the plan after adding txts. Then you still have to pay for the datapart. How txt is not included In the data plan is stupid. AT&T is basically robbing you in plain site. AT&T costs is the sole reason i don't have one! Then to be locks into that for two years! INSANE!

Us too. My wife and I would also have the iPhone if not for the fact that it would add about $50 per month in service fees. I actually use data very little and the data plan + $20 for text is just hard to justify with our usage.
I'm amazed at the analysis that says that the iphone sales would be so much higher if they lowered the price of the phone alone. Those who would make a decision based on $100 difference upfront are probably the same ones that also default on mortgage loans that are resetting because they did not bother to understand the agreement.
post #82 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

Wow, £240 a year, stop being such a tight-ass miser. You'd have been expected to pay £1000+ for that kind of service a year ago, what on earth is your problem.

Thank you for that balanced and courteous judgement, based on your in-depth knowledge of my personal circumstances, financial situation and phone usage requirements.

Moron.
post #83 of 116
random thoughts..

Most people in my peer group don't think the iPhone is worth the overall outlay. Its not a 'great' device. Its average at lots of things. Most people IMO want 'better' devices.

and for those moaning about the monthly plans and saying its all down to O2 or AT&T remember Apple effectively sets the price. They clearly wanted to sell it at $199 which meant a big fat subsidy which the carriers can only get back through the plans. If Apple had set the price at $399 then monthly plans could come down by $10 or so.

remember the TOTAL outlay is down purely to Apple.

Give me a proper phone (Nokia,BB) any day.
post #84 of 116
The iPh could be FREE for all I and many others care. What's ridiculous is AT&T's monthly rates even before the financial crisis-depression.
I do find great value and use in the iPod Touch. It replaces a laptop 95% of the time, and I didn't mind paying $199 for it.
Keeping my basic cell phone, thank you.
post #85 of 116
Katy Huberty is rarely close in her forcasts. The wonder is, that she is still employed.
post #86 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by afalkner View Post

My wife and I would both have an iPhone if AT&T weren't so damn expensive. I just can't justify it. We have tmobile and to switch we'd get less minutes and still pay more for the plan after adding txts. Then you still have to pay for the datapart. How txt is not included In the data plan is stupid. AT&T is basically robbing you in plain site. AT&T costs is the sole reason i don't have one! Then to be locks into that for two years! INSANE!

Same here. My girlfriend and I would have bought iPhones the day the 3G was released if it wasn't for the overpriced plan from AT&T. The iPhone itself is reasonably priced, considering what it is and all it's features. I'd love to dump my crappy Sony Ericsson phone and Palm TX. The iPhone is still woefully short on memory as far as using it for music goes.

Now we have a Family Plan from T-Mobile. Switching to AT&T, which in itself isn't a big deal, would more than double what we pay per month. We would gladly get make the switch if we could get a plan WITHOUT data charges. Neither of us does texting, so we don't care about that either.

We live in Manhattan and can find free Wi-Fi nearly everywhere, so why pay for data? I know quite a few people who feel the same.

AT&T really needs to make their iPhone plans more customizable and modular. I'm not really interested in jail breaking an iPhone either.

Hey AT&T, why not put the CUSTOMER first? What a concept
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post #87 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post

Same here. My girlfriend and I would have bought iPhones the day the 3G was released if it wasn't for the overpriced plan from AT&T. The iPhone itself is reasonably priced, considering what it is and all it's features. I'd love to dump my crappy Sony Ericsson phone and Palm TX. The iPhone is still woefully short on memory as far as using it for music goes.

Now we have a Family Plan from T-Mobile. Switching to AT&T, which in itself isn't a big deal, would more than double what we pay per month. We would gladly get make the switch if we could get a plan WITHOUT data charges. Neither of us does texting, so we don't care about that either.

We live in Manhattan and can find free Wi-Fi nearly everywhere, so why pay for data? I know quite a few people who feel the same.

AT&T really needs to make their iPhone plans more customizable and modular. I'm not really interested in jail breaking an iPhone either.

Hey AT&T, why not put the CUSTOMER first? What a concept



stop blaming AT&T!!

Apple sets the price!!!
post #88 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

"Common Sense", where is Thomas Paine when you need him? It's certainly lacking with the outgoing and incoming governments.

http://www.ushistory.org/paine/commonsense/

The trouble with "Common Sense" is that it's not very common.
post #89 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

stop blaming AT&T!!

Apple sets the price!!!

For AT&T's service plans? I think not.
post #90 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

For AT&T's service plans? I think not.


do you not understand???

APple sets the RRP of the phone.

Apple sells the phone in to AT&T at a much greater cost than the RRP.

AT&T needs to recoup the subsidy....... from the consumer.

so if Apple were to:

1/ Raise the RRP

or

2/ Lower the wholesale handset price

then AT&T would have more flexibility with the price plans.

Of course Apple wants the

a/ Good publicity a $199 RRP gives them.

and

b/ the inflated profits of the wholesale price.


If you think AT&T is deliberately annoying all its customers then you are delusional.
post #91 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

do you not understand???

APple sets the RRP of the phone.

Apple sells the phone in to AT&T at a much greater cost than the RRP.

AT&T needs to recoup the subsidy....... from the consumer.

so if Apple were to:

1/ Raise the RRP

or

2/ Lower the wholesale handset price

then AT&T would have more flexibility with the price plans.

Of course Apple wants the

a/ Good publicity a $199 RRP gives them.

and

b/ the inflated profits of the wholesale price.


If you think AT&T is deliberately annoying all its customers then you are delusional.

Then why are AT&T's pricing for other smart phone plans the same? Why is Verizon's pricing for smart phone plans the same, or more?

People keep referring to their grandfathered in rates at T-Mobile, or basic phone plans from smaller carriers, as if that were the generally accepted metric for what an iPhone plan "ought" to cost, but that's ridiculous.

If there's a problem with what the handset manufacturers charge the carriers leading to inflated rates, then it is clearly endemic to the industry, and not an Apple thing by any stretch of the imagination.

Do I wish that data plans were cheaper? Sure. Do I wish basic phone plans were cheaper? You bet. Does the cost of operating an iPhone seem wildly out of line with industry norms? It absolutely does not, and anyone claiming that has got some other ax to grind.
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post #92 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by algalli View Post

$199 is certainly a fair price for the IPhone. The problem is the AT&T data charge. If AT&T made the data charge optional I would by an IPhone in an instant.

Ditto ! ! !

I would love an iphone too, and that is the big limitation. $30 every month for something I do not at all need.
post #93 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Hallas View Post

As far as I can see from the limited information I've been able to find so far, you *have* to top up with a minimum of £10 every month (so, £120 per year minimum), and after the first year you have to top of a further £10 each month to get data services too (which are free for the first year). So, that's £240 per year after the first year. That's a complete and utter joke.

This isn't correct. The Carphone Warehouse employee I bought my Pay As You Go iphone from (they have cheaper insurance) said this was the case but I specifically asked O2 and they said clearly that the data access provided on the iphone is free for the first year and not dependent in any way on the topup amount. The small print says this too. Web and data access is free for 12 months and they notify you by text when this period ends. Nowhere is there written a message that says subject to a minimum £10 topup.

The biggest condition for free data for the first 12 months is that you must use the SIM in an original iphone. If O2 detects the SIM used in another device, they will suspend data access after notifying you. This must have something to do with the Apple/O2 exclusivity.

Beyond that 12 months, it couldn't be dependent on the topups as you are explicitly paying for data access.

Based on this, assuming you spend £50 worth of topups a year, you can get something like 20 texts and 20 minutes of call time a month and you are only paying 2/3 the cost of the lowest contract. Plus you have no contract so you can switch to something else at any time.
post #94 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamtam View Post

Us too. My wife and I would also have the iPhone if not for the fact that it would add about $50 per month in service fees. I actually use data very little and the data plan + $20 for text is just hard to justify with our usage.

You currently use the data plan very little. Prior to getting the iPhone I used the data plan $0. Now I use it quite a bit because it's actually useful as opposed to painful.
post #95 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Then why are AT&T's pricing for other smart phone plans the same? Why is Verizon's pricing for smart phone plans the same, or more?

People keep referring to their grandfathered in rates at T-Mobile, or basic phone plans from smaller carriers, as if that were the generally accepted metric for what an iPhone plan "ought" to cost, but that's ridiculous.

If there's a problem with what the handset manufacturers charge the carriers leading to inflated rates, then it is clearly endemic to the industry, and not an Apple thing by any stretch of the imagination.

Do I wish that data plans were cheaper? Sure. Do I wish basic phone plans were cheaper? You bet. Does the cost of operating an iPhone seem wildly out of line with industry norms? It absolutely does not, and anyone claiming that has got some other ax to grind.

Don't confuse the issue with facts.

Besides, getting the iPhone without the dataplan is kinda like getting a Blackberry without email...
post #96 of 116
Ditto for the same reasons in Canada. Rogers, our only provider has extreme high usage plans. I don't have a problem with the phone, it's the carrier. I'll gladly pay the price for the phone. I know many others that would do the same. Just lower the darn rates!
post #97 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Besides, getting the iPhone without the dataplan is kinda like getting a Blackberry without email...

Did you even bother to read any of the previous messages?
post #98 of 116
This is a very simple issue. The iPhone 3G plans are simply much to expensive for a large portion of potential iPhone buyers, especially in a recession. The iPhone 3G should have NEVER required a mandatory $30/mo data plan in addition to the minimum $40/mo voice and the extra costs for text messages. Though cheaper than the equivalent on Verizon, it still costs you a minimum of $75-80 a month! Until this changes and AT&T makes this more affordable, they can give the damn thing away for free and still not see a major increase in sales!
post #99 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Besides, getting the iPhone without the dataplan is kinda like getting a Blackberry without email...

Except for the fact that the iPhone has WiFi, and many people are blanketed in Wifi all day. I think one thing AT&T could do is offer a limited 1GB data plan for say $10 in addition to the $30 5GB option. This would open the phone up to a lot more people...
post #100 of 116
Why anyone would want to buy this phone without a data connection is beyond me. Thats the whole point of the phone, to be always connected. WiFi is NOT always connected. I'm sure when you go to a store it has WiFi available for everyone for free. Thats pure BS! So basically you want an iPhone just to say you have an iPhone. Without a data plan you won't be able to use half its feature unless you're at home or just happen to be where there's WiFi. Its not everywhere to everyone. If you don't want a data plan with this phone then you don't really want the phone. You'll see how disappointing the phone is without data plan real quick if you could in fact get one. Imagine trying to use the GPS, turn by turn maps while driving without a data plan. Imagine trying to get an important email while in the car without a data plan. I could go on and on about these points and bottom line, it ain't gonna happen! Not without a data plan. Basically you'd have a phone with an iPod. Apple can't make everything for everyone and some people just can't realize that. Maybe what AT&T should do is either lower the price of the data plan, or have multiple data plans available. I would never use more than 1 GB per month on mine for example and I think a lot of people would fit into the same boat. For others, well make a 5GB plan and/or an unlimited GB plan to go with it.

And T-Mobile isn't all that either. Sure, they may be cheaper but their coverage isn't any better than AT&T, and worse in a lot of areas. You'll never see a Verizon based iPhone as Apple would have to make a completely different iPhone as AT&T uses a completely different wireless technology than Verizon does and they aren't backwards compatible. I myself would love to see a Verizon based iPhone as I believe they have the best coverage in the US hands down with a vast spread of 3G (including in my area out in the sticks). Problem with Verzion is, they want control over their phones and it will be a cold day in hell before Apple gives any control of any of its products to someone else. I love Verizon's service, but their phones suck big time.
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post #101 of 116
Katy Huberty and many others making estimates about iPhone sales, are doing it the way they traditionally have. They ask people which phone they will buy, what they are willing to spend, etc. And they base their estimates on the reports of these surveys.

These surveys, and the estimates in general, are making a huge mistake, in my opinion.
The iPhone is not "just a phone". It is essentially a hand-held device with the speed and power of a desktop computer. My (humble) prediction is that the iPhone will establish a market for software applications for hand-held devices as Windows did for the PC. With time people will buy an iPhone not because it is a phone, but because they want the music/ear-training program that works on the iPhone. Or a particular game that runs on the iPhone. Or the medical software that runs on the iPhone.

True, many such applications are available for other devices. But the App Store means people can buy applications quickly and easily. And, as a general rule, since they have been checked by Apple, they will work. (I said "generally". It would be unrealistic to expect that Apple can determine flaws in all 3rd party apps).

And for developers? All they have to do is WRITE the software. They don't have to maintain a web site and download the application etc. That all goes THROUGH the Apps store, for a very fair 1/3 of revenue.

Yes, because the economy is in a downswing it will take 2-3 years for the i-Phone to truly establish itself. But once it does, no one will catch it.

In summary, the iPhone is not just a phone. It is THE hand-held computing platform of the early 21st Century.

(Disclaimer- yes, I am an Apple stockholder. And I will soon purchase an iPhone. Bec, I am frustrated when I pay serious money for a medical textbook on my Palm Treo- which freezes 6 to 10 times a day-and the medical book I bought will not install on the Palm).
post #102 of 116
Katy Huberty and many others making estimates about iPhone sales, are doing it the way they traditionally have. They ask people which phone they will buy, what they are willing to spend, etc. And they base their estimates on the reports of these surveys.

These surveys, and the estimates in general, are making a huge mistake, in my opinion.
The iPhone is not "just a phone". It is essentially a hand-held device with the speed and power of a desktop computer. My (humble) prediction is that the iPhone will establish a market for software applications for hand-held devices as Windows did for the PC. With time people will buy an iPhone not because it is a phone, but because they want the music/ear-training program that works on the iPhone. Or a particular game that runs on the iPhone. Or the medical software that runs on the iPhone.

True, many such applications are available for other devices. But the App Store means people can buy applications quickly and easily. And, as a general rule, since they have been checked by Apple, they will work. (I said "generally". It would be unrealistic to expect that Apple can determine flaws in all 3rd party apps).

And for developers? All they have to do is WRITE the software. They don't have to maintain a web site and download the application etc. That all goes THROUGH the Apps store, for a very fair 1/3 of revenue.

Yes, because the economy is in a downswing it will take 2-3 years for the i-Phone to truly establish itself. But once it does, no one will catch it.

In summary, the iPhone is not just a phone. It is THE hand-held computing platform of the early 21st Century.

(Disclaimer- yes, I am an Apple stockholder. And I will soon purchase an iPhone. Bec. I am frustrated when I pay serious money for a medical textbook on my Palm Treo- which freezes 6 to 10 times a day-and the medical book I bought will not install on the Palm).
post #103 of 116
Am I missing something here?
I have Verizon and a Plam Treo- which freezes constantly and I hate.
I started using text messaging two months ago. I was shocked to get a bill- I thought my EXPENSIVE data plan would include it.
So now I pay for a Verizon text message plan.
Why do you say that only AT&T charges extra for text messages?
Verizon does as well!
post #104 of 116
I am quite satisfied with Verizon's service. But the Palm Treo 700 is a disaster. I can't count the number of times it freezes for 45 seconds when I am trying to write an email or a to do. Or dial a call. I am just about finished reading David Pogue's Book, " iPhone The Missing Manual. 2nd edition". It is ASTOUNDING what the iPhone can do and I am off to buy one this month.
I will take slightly less good AT&T service, for a PDA/Phone that can DO SO MANY THINGS SO WELL!
And my informal survey of iPhone owners is NY has found that well over 90% of iphone owners are satisfied with the AT&T service (though I realize in more rural areas it may be more of a problem).

(and for those who wonder why Apple doesn't have voice guided GPS in the iPhone David Pogue explains in his book why Apple doesn't include voice guided GPS. But almost certainly a 3rd party developer will.
post #105 of 116
Love the phone and do not think it's overpriced.

But I also love my carrier and hate AT&T's lousy customer service and expensive rates.

No way I'm switching. Hence no iPhone for me unless they release a model to TMobile. The G1 is a great phone too. I would go so far as to say that it's a better phone than the iPhone for pc users. But for mac users the iPhone is a better marriage.
post #106 of 116
Jeez, you should see the cost of data in Australia.

Unlimited doesn't exist even for Cable and ADSL, we have a thing called "shaping" where once you reach your monthly allotment your connection speed slows down my kid's have used our 35GB @ 1500k for this month so now I live with 64k until the 20th.

This also affects the wireless speed on my iPhone.

My local telephone exchange does not support ADSL 2, my location the edge of Sydney the largest city.

There is hardly any wireless available, anywhere.

We have had contracts here for many years, higher contract = better phone, it's simple really, as the iPhone is considered a smartphone it is in the same price bracket as other smartphones..

You get what you pay for.

btw using Youtube on a Blackberry Storm is NOT covered by the BIS or BER, so if you want to use it you HAVE to add a data plan or face exorbitant casual data rates, you can't even use wireless.

People in Australia have been hit with $3000+ bills because they didn't understand the concept of using data or the need for having a data plan, this applies to ALL smartphones.
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post #107 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by mklos View Post

You'll see how disappointing the phone is without data plan real quick if you could in fact get one. Imagine trying to use the GPS, turn by turn maps while driving without a data plan. Imagine trying to get an important email while in the car without a data plan. I could go on and on about these points and bottom line, it ain't gonna happen! Not without a data plan. Basically you'd have a phone with an iPod.

Hmm, I can do turn by turn on my smartphone without a dataplan, in fact a lot of people can, anyone that has the Nokia Maps app, or Tom Tom, or Wavefinder for their phone can pre-download the maps, data isn't needed.
post #108 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Hmm, I can do turn by turn on my smartphone without a dataplan, in fact a lot of people can, anyone that has the Nokia Maps app, or Tom Tom, or Wavefinder for their phone can pre-download the maps, data isn't needed.

A subscription is needed for Nokia Maps in Australia it's $A100 a year.
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post #109 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

A subscription is needed for Nokia Maps in Australia it's $A100 a year.

But you don't need data to use it
post #110 of 116
many are buying the iphone instead of broadband and home computer+ cellphone, its a convergence item, just like people are moving away from landline phones to cell phones, do you want 1 item to do it all, then the iphone is that item, what others can be that inclusive?
so if you look at dropping your landline, internet expense etc, than the iphone saves you money that's why many are converging similar services with the iphone especially the lower income levels not typical of BB or nokia smartphone market.
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post #111 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

But you don't need data to use it

Apart from the computer you download it to and install it from.

You also have to make sure you disable the "define access point" or set it to wireless when using Nokia Maps for the first time or you will face network charges, which is buried in the fine print of the agreement you accept in order to use it.

If you follow the instructions given in the box and set it up from the handset as advised in the free offer leaflet then you will get charged for data.

I've seen quite a few people caught out by this.
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post #112 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Apart from the computer you download it to and install it from.

We were talking about mobile data, but I will say it anyway. You do not need to use mobile data when using with Nokia maps, or the mobile phone version of Tomtom, or Wayfinder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

You also have to make sure you disable the "define access point" or set it to wireless when using Nokia Maps for the first time or you will face network charges, which is buried in the fine print of the agreement you accept in order to use it.

Well of course you would have to disable that, why don't you just use the option that comes up when you first use the application?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

If you follow the instructions given in the box and set it up from the handset as advised in the free offer leaflet then you will get charged for data.

I've seen quite a few people caught out by this.

If you read any of the Nokia documents that will state you are still liable for your data related costs. It is no different than roaming with your iPhone then complaining about the data roam charges.
post #113 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Hmm, I can do turn by turn on my smartphone without a dataplan, in fact a lot of people can, anyone that has the Nokia Maps app, or Tom Tom, or Wavefinder for their phone can pre-download the maps, data isn't needed.

Thats nice, but it totally defeats the purpose of having the iPhone in the first place. The idea is that you don't have to carry around 18 different devices. And the GPS was just one example. I could give you other examples that would make the phone pointless without a dataplan.
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post #114 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by mklos View Post

Thats nice, but it totally defeats the purpose of having the iPhone in the first place. The idea is that you don't have to carry around 18 different devices. And the GPS was just one example. I could give you other examples that would make the phone pointless without a dataplan.

No it doesn't. You said imagine doing turn by turn navigation without a data plan. It is not hard to imagine, as every GPS device (except the iPhone) doesn't need data to do turn by turn navigation.

And why would you be carrying 18 devices? You can get a number of devices that include a phone, music player, and GPS (and unlike the iPhone will do navigation as well)
post #115 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

No it doesn't. You said imagine doing turn by turn navigation without a data plan. It is not hard to imagine, as every GPS device (except the iPhone) doesn't need data to do turn by turn navigation.

And why would you be carrying 18 devices? You can get a number of devices that include a phone, music player, and GPS (and unlike the iPhone will do navigation as well)

You might not NEED data to do turn-by-turn navigation --- but you want to if you also want to receive up-to-date traffic reports.
post #116 of 116
overpriced? i dont think so.

but the problem here is, why no unlock iphone here. i really dislike the idea of iphone with contract, despite the contract makes iphone easy to buy at reasonable price. if apple make iphone 3g out at unlock next year at affordable price as rumers, the market is his.
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