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Blu-ray vs. DVD/VOD (2009) - Page 2

post #41 of 669
I've seen HD video-on-demand and the picture quality didn't look that good on a 42" 1080p display--it was definitely inferior to the 1080p video you get from a Blu-ray player.

But now that economies of scale have dropped Blu-ray costs dramatically, expect its acceptance to increase.
post #42 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by SactoMan01 View Post

Folks,

I hate to break out the bad news, but HD video downloads through the Internet is a non-starter in the USA as it currently stands.

I cite the following issues:

1) Media service providers will have a compromise video quality to get HD video files to something resembling a reasonable size--if you don't mind a 3-4 GB download per movie!

2) Even with Verizon's FIOS service, you need to seriously tie up the Internet connection for long periods of time to download movies, unless the connection is 50 megabits per second download speeds or faster (the number of homes with such fast connections are extremely small indeed).

3) Internet Service Providers are imposing monthly download limits because a) they fear too much video downloading will overwhelm the current network infrastructure and 2) they want to discourage torrent traffic. This has the unfortunate side effect of making HD video downloads not very practical.

4) The price of Blu-ray players and discs have nose-dived, especially within the last six months. We will see BD-Live enabled players from the major manufacturers costing well under US$200 by the end of March 2009, and the price of discs have dropped a lot lately, too.

And yet some people just don't get this. They prefer their fantasy world where you can just download HD anything at will. Well that might happen someday but we'll all be older. There's just too many hurdles right now to make a mainstream purchasing concept of this viable. If you want quality HD on your TV now and for the foreseeable future BD is the only way to go.
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post #43 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by SactoMan01 View Post

I've seen HD video-on-demand and the picture quality didn't look that good on a 42" 1080p display--it was definitely inferior to the 1080p video you get from a Blu-ray player.

But now that economies of scale have dropped Blu-ray costs dramatically, expect its acceptance to increase.

You probably don't watch enough blu-ray contents. Not all 1080p contents are created equal. Regardless of being streamed on-demand nor being read on the optical disc, the quality of the transfer will play a bigger role on video playback quality. Obviously, higher bit rate available from a disc has a greater potential for high quality video, but you can also have high bitrate garbage from the poorly transferred materials. Same will apply to 720p contents. It would be ideal to have all the available blu-ray contents to have high quality transfer material and that may help demonstrate the full benefit of 1080p contents on discs. However, only fraction of the available titles are considered demo quality and about 90% of the available contents are slightly better than SD DVD contents. This is another notable issue hurting the hi-def adoption.

One experience I can share is that I had seen SD content, 720p online content, and 1080p disc content of transformers. You can tell small but noticeable difference between SD vs. 720p & 1080p, but it's going to take a lot more efforts to see the difference between 720p vs. 1080p on all big screens. For enthusiasts, the smallest improvements are worth the admission, but it's not big enough bang for the buck for the norm. Well, it's your money after all. Go spend it as much as you can afford on the format and tell us how it really is.
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post #44 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post


...

Go spend it as much as you can afford on the format and tell us how it really is.

But Bite, that's just what a number of have been doing, telling you that BD is the way to go for the best HD experience. First your mantra was HD-DVD was the better format, then VOD is the way to go and now, BD isn't good enough when compared to DVD to spend money on.
post #45 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

But Bite, that's just what a number of have been doing, telling you that BD is the way to go for the best HD experience. First your mantra was HD-DVD was the better format, then VOD is the way to go and now, BD isn't good enough when compared to DVD to spend money on.

It seems as if you're having difficulty separating between disc formats vs. content formats. Anyway, I still do think HD-DVD is a better optical disc solution compared to Blu-ray as a optical storage solution in the means of HDM content delivery to consumers. Obviouly studios were more interested in Sony's bribery.

In regards to SD vs. HD contents, not all HD contents improves the PQ/AQ as many transfer on 1080p contents use lesser quality PQ/AQ master and can hardly be considered as a HD demo material. But you know this already?

Regardless of the outcome on the nextgen optical format war, I will much prefer HD contents because I am an AV enthusiasts and I do spend my money on it. I can share my $0.02 on the matter because I have purchased over 100 HDM's on HD-DVD & BD discs. BTW, I do not play games on my Blu-ray player, it's strickly for BD movies.
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post #46 of 669
HD movie playback's a side issue for me on a computer. What's long overdue though are Blu-ray burners. Anyone that's bought into HD video cameras probably has huge files of content stuck on their hard-drives which they're unable to burn or distribute.

Ironic that Apple were so quick to support HD movie editing in Final Cut and iMovie HD and yet have waited so long to make this a practical option. iDVD has been made completely redundant without a BR burner as far as HD content goes.

Same thing happened when Digital video was introduced. Took several years for DVD burners to become the standard.
post #47 of 669
Most consumer HD cams shoot in HDV, which is a format that isn't any larger (data wise) than SD DV. As a matter of fact it takes less space. So I don't think that there is a huge issue with not being able to store or transport data from HiDef cams.
post #48 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

You probably don't watch enough blu-ray contents. Not all 1080p contents are created equal. Regardless of being streamed on-demand nor being read on the optical disc, the quality of the transfer will play a bigger role on video playback quality. Obviously, higher bit rate available from a disc has a greater potential for high quality video, but you can also have high bitrate garbage from the poorly transferred materials. Same will apply to 720p contents. It would be ideal to have all the available blu-ray contents to have high quality transfer material and that may help demonstrate the full benefit of 1080p contents on discs. However, only fraction of the available titles are considered demo quality and about 90% of the available contents are slightly better than SD DVD contents. This is another notable issue hurting the hi-def adoption.

One experience I can share is that I had seen SD content, 720p online content, and 1080p disc content of transformers. You can tell small but noticeable difference between SD vs. 720p & 1080p, but it's going to take a lot more efforts to see the difference between 720p vs. 1080p on all big screens. For enthusiasts, the smallest improvements are worth the admission, but it's not big enough bang for the buck for the norm. Well, it's your money after all. Go spend it as much as you can afford on the format and tell us how it really is.

Since Blu-Ray players are on sale for prices similar to Upscale DVD players, cost isn't an issue. Even catalog Blu-Ray discs are 14.99. Why not go with the HD format when the price difference is barely there.
post #49 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

It seems as if you're having difficulty separating between disc formats vs. content formats. Anyway, I still do think HD-DVD is a better optical disc solution compared to Blu-ray as a optical storage solution in the means of HDM content delivery to consumers. Obviouly studios were more interested in Sony's bribery.

Bribery? Just a better business plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

In regards to SD vs. HD contents, not all HD contents improves the PQ/AQ as many transfer on 1080p contents use lesser quality PQ/AQ master and can hardly be considered as a HD demo material. But you know this already?

Change the "many" to "some". Also see the PQ thread on avsform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Regardless of the outcome on the nextgen optical format war, I will much prefer HD contents because I am an AV enthusiasts and I do spend my money on it. I can share my $0.02 on the matter because I have purchased over 100 HDM's on HD-DVD & BD discs. BTW, I do not play games on my Blu-ray player, it's strickly for BD movies.

Bite, I think I remember you mentioning in the 2008 thread that you were buying a lot of HD-DVD disc when they were on going-out-of-business pricing, $7.99 to $9.99. On your "over 100 HDM's", how many are actually BD?
post #50 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

Bribery? Just a better business plan.

Change the "many" to "some". Also see the PQ thread on avsform.

Bite, I think I remember you mentioning in the 2008 thread that you were buying a lot of HD-DVD disc when they were on going-out-of-business pricing, $7.99 to $9.99. On your "over 100 HDM's", how many are actually BD?

Bribery and better business plans are not mutually exclusive.

Blu-ray has no chance of overtaking DVD. None.

I'll buy regardless because it will be the absolute best format to purchase
LotR and other movies worthy of spending over $30 on.

The hard truth is that upscaling technology keeps getting better and better. I see no reason why 720p video downloaded from the internet won't look equal to 1080p content on disc when ran through an optimized upscaler.

Many companies are working on integrating improved upscaling tech into products.
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post #51 of 669
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Bribery and better business plans are not mutually exclusive.

Sure they're not, but if you remember correctly, it was the Toshiba and Microsoft as members of the HD DVD group that epitomized the bribery game...Paramount ring any bells? The hard truth is that Toshiba and Microsoft got owned by multitudes of companies, not just Sony.

Quote:
Blu-ray has no chance of overtaking DVD. None.

I'll put this in the memory banks for later use. Just remember that YOU stated it. Your were wrong before with the outcome of this war, and well, you're wrong again.

Quote:
I'll buy regardless because it will be the absolute best format to purchase
LotR and other movies worthy of spending over $30 on.

The hard truth is that upscaling technology keeps getting better and better. I see no reason why 720p video downloaded from the internet won't look equal to 1080p content on disc when ran through an optimized upscaler.

Many companies are working on integrating improved upscaling tech into products.

Many, as in Toshiba, trying to peddle XDE. Many more are providing Blu-ray players. Blu-ray will overtake DVD, and they will do so eventually by CE companies only providing Blu-ray hardware and studios offering only Blu-ray content. It isn't going to happen overnight obviously, but just as DVD began to be seen everywhere, quietly replacing all those VHS tapes in your electronic stores and your local rental stores, so is Blu-ray currently--and the space given to Blu-ray on shelves I've seen is only increasing as time continues.

And finally please allow me to share with you ten reasons why physical media owns downloadable content...

http://formatwarcentral.com/2008/12/...al-media-owns/

Quote:
Lets face it, before the last format war was even over a new one had begun, both formats had to fight an uphill battle, leaving the winner to fight alone for true reign of the market. With a slew of pro digital download announcements, we here at Format War Central decided to give Physical Media the spot light by telling the world Hey, Physical Media Still Kicks Ass!.

1) People Like Physical: Whether its a 12″ vinyl record or simply a DVD case, people have always wanted something they could hold, to tell them Hey, you own that!. Stigma related to this ensures people will always have place in their hearts for years to come.

2) Bit Rates: Consumers are a odd bunch when it comes to quality, some are fine with VCD type video playing back on their 55″ HDTV, others wont settle for that, they want the best! Physical media is capable of reaching bit rates which currently wouldnt be possible on digitally distributed content for a variety of reasons.

3) You Cant Sell Digital: If youre sitting on 50 copies of Doom on HD DVD hoping theyll be worth something one day, dont bother. Depending on the title, you could get a hefty sum of money for it down the line. Unfortunately, the same would not apply to digital content, something tells us your 20GB Xbox 360 HDD filled with the third season of Heroes wont hold much value 20 years down the line, infact a few months down the line and were sure the HDD would be worth more than the show! We wonder how much your colorized Casablanca VHS is worth?

4) Unified: With Digital Downloads, almost everyone and their sister [company] are releasing a distribution device/platform, its a lot to take in! To add to the frustration none of them will work across the board. Compared to lets say a Blu-ray player where you can play almost every format known to man, including Blu-ray, DVD, CD, HD DVD [combo player], VHS (Yes thats right, VHS!) and more! Adding to the irony, many also have the ability to stream content from places like Netflix and soon Blockbuster!

5) Restrictions Restrictions!: When Digital Downloads were ushered in it meant doom for users who imported their movies. Before region coding was the only issue to worry about, with downloads restrictions are but not limited to:

*ISP Locks: In todays day and age its not hard for providers to cut you off solely based on the country your connection is coming from.

*D.R.M.X!: You may have heard of Digital Rights Management, but have you heard of Digital Rights Management Xtreme! before? With Digital Distributed content, DRM has been taken to new heights, giving you viewing windows, HDD locks, and a whole slew of other nasty surprises.

*The Studio Equation: Believe it or not, studios only want you to give them money when they tell you too! Despite the digital market being capable of providing millions in revenue, studios choose to ignore the market or limit them. Theirs a reason why your countries XBLVM only has 10 HD movies while the American store has close to 1000

6) So Easy Howard Stern Can Do It!: Pop in your disc/tape and play, simple isnt it? Compared to downloads where you have to find the movie you want to watch, queue, optionally wait for it to download, find where the file is stored, and playback, if necessary take time out of your experience to watch the buffer bar load.

7) Instant Access: It goes without saying, if you want a top quality video distributed digitally, streaming just wont cut it.

8) I always feel like somebodys watching me: If you tend to use your VUDU box or Bit Torrent Client (Legally.we hope) at least once a day to watch your HD/HDX movies, odds are someone will take notice. We wont blame you if you decide to watch Tropic Thunder while your neighbour gets fined and/or arrested for piracy.

9) Its Not A Wired World!: Shockingly surprising yes we know, their are locations in this world that have have little to no Internet access at all (Even in North America!)! Despite not even having 56K access, there is a really good chance those locations have access to at least one form physical media to enjoy.

10) No Back Up Plan: In a Democratic system, a company is capable of losing millions overnight, the unfortunate case for many is they are forced to shutdown. Suppose your favourite content provider is forced to shut down their servers for any reason, any content you bought would be gone! Any DRM server checks needed for content to work would fail, leaving you with an empty shell of a movie/album/game. Although some services, such as Microsoft Digital Locker (Confirmed to be shutting down this morning, August 2009) allow you to back up your data periodically, unfortunately this model is yet to applied to any other service.
post #52 of 669
Marz is quoting someone critical of DRM to support Blu-Ray. Now there's irony for you!
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post #53 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Anyway, I still do think HD-DVD is a better optical disc solution compared to Blu-ray as a optical storage solution in the means of HDM content delivery to consumers.

As someone who has spent money on both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, my experience is that Blu is better.

While the video and audio quality are on par*, the durability of HD-DVD was severely lacking. While I did not have any problems with purchased movies, about 70% of the movies rented via Netflix were not fully playable. A few even refused to load. Sure, these disks don't have an easy life, but few were as scuffed as a typical Netflix DVD. Some looked new, but still gave us problems.

We have not had a single problem with Blu-Ray. The anti-scratch coating is fantastic; every disk is in flawless condition.

As far as an "Optical Disk Solution" goes, they don't even compare...

* While I have not done a back-to-back comparison with the same source material, both exceed the quality of my older 1080i rear-projection CRT display, and amplifier. However, the improvement over standard DVD, or broadcast HDTV is well worth the incremental cost in my home theater...
post #54 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Blu-ray has no chance of overtaking DVD. None.

Hey murch, glad you survived the snow. I have mixed feelings about the BD/DVD thing. Personally I don't feel that to be successful BD has to replace DVD; it only needs a significant market share and studio support of the format.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

I'll buy regardless because it will be the absolute best format to purchase
LotR and other movies worthy of spending over $30 on.

The hard truth is that upscaling technology keeps getting better and better. I see no reason why 720p video downloaded from the internet won't look equal to 1080p content on disc when ran through an optimized upscaler.

These two paragraphs seem to contradict each other. Maybe, though, I'm missing something.
post #55 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

Hey murch, glad you survived the snow. I have mixed feelings about the BD/DVD thing. Personally I don't feel that to be successful BD has to replace DVD; it only needs a significant market share and studio support of the format.

These two paragraphs seem to contradict each other. Maybe, though, I'm missing something.

I barely survived friend. I live up the hill in Bothell and I couldn't make it 10ft out of my driveway due to tires that need to be replaced.

Here's what worries me. It's not just Toshiba and XDE that are working on upscaling technology.

http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=1233467

Quote:
Broadcom Corporation (Nasdaq: BRCM), a global leader in semiconductors for wired and wireless communications, today announced that it will demonstrate new super resolution technology for digital televisions (DTVs) that allows low resolution videos from the Internet, as well as standard definition (SD) content, such as standard DVDs, to be converted to high resolution for optimal viewing on large screen high definition televisions. With this new Broadcom® technology, TV manufacturers can significantly enhance the quality of low resolution Internet content for viewing on televisions that further positions the connected TV as the entertainment hub in the home. Broadcom will showcase this technology at CES 2009, demonstrating this dramatic upgrade from low resolution and SD to full high definition (FHD) display.


Then there's Shomi Technologies

http://www.shomitech.com/

There will be undoubtedly others. I know everyone things i'm some jilted HD DVD lover but I came grips with that a long time ago. I just see a lot of effort in making today's SD content look good on larger screens. I've only got a 32" so DVDs still look great but my next screen will be around a 50" or so and I expect to see more of a difference.

I see the change coming. I don't see Blu-ray as this indomitable force that sweeps DVD and downloads away. I see it as complementary technology. I can't wait to get my Blu-ray player because there are stellar titles that I must own but honestly my threshold for Blu-ray purchases will be higher. I figure if the cinematography is not first rate I'm not buying the BD version of the movie I'll get the DVD.

My future is going to be

Netflix- for DVD and Blu-ray rentals
Apple TV for on demand stuff,
Hulu
Theater for can't miss movies.

Comcast and FIOS TV have no future other than providing me a fat pipe so that I can get my content cheaper and easier elsewhere.

Ahhhhh the democratic effects of the Internet.
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post #56 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

Bribery? Just a better business plan.

Perhpaps, and for Sony, even bigger bribery was part of the business plan.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

Change the "many" to "some". Also see the PQ thread on avsform.

I guess, this really depends on what hardware everyone is using to play SD-DVD contents. These days, consumer/prosumer brand like Oppo makes pretty decent upscale DVD players from $150 to $250. Perhaps, having access to a decent upscaling DVD player may change your opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post

Bite, I think I remember you mentioning in the 2008 thread that you were buying a lot of HD-DVD disc when they were on going-out-of-business pricing, $7.99 to $9.99. On your "over 100 HDM's", how many are actually BD?

Once again, you're having difficulty separating between disc formats vs. content formats.
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post #57 of 669
So hybrid DVD/Blu-Ray disks are ready to hit the market and will start to be used on major released in 2009. These are disks that are DVD on one side and Blu-Ray on the other and best of all will work on all existing players.

I would expect for these to quickly become the standard for all new releases by the end of 2009 and thus killing any argument about Blu-Ray becoming the standard format for movie released for the next 5 years at least.
post #58 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphster View Post

So hybrid DVD/Blu-Ray disks are ready to hit the market and will start to be used on major released in 2009. These are disks that are DVD on one side and Blu-Ray on the other and best of all will work on all existing players.

I would expect for these to quickly become the standard for all new releases by the end of 2009 and thus killing any argument about Blu-Ray becoming the standard format for movie released for the next 5 years at least.

Usually, one provides links for this kind of stuff. Never mind, I hit Google for you.

Seems JVC has been promising this since 2004, but never delivered.

Wired has the goods on the 2009 version of the tech, and 'Expensive' is the first word in the headline. Also, the Blu-Ray contents are being compressed further to fit on the disk, which was the problem numerous BR purists had with HD-DVD.

TG Daily says the first hybrid release will happen only in Japan, and the multi-disc release will cost $406. That will certainly make headlines.
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post #59 of 669
Price like in any of these things is totally irrelevant. In is all about supply and demand. Like in 12 months time you will be able to buy Blu-Ray movies for the same price as todays DVD's. The Hybrid ones will too become affordable. Too many companies have far too much riding on the success of Blu-Ray not to make it work. These hybrid discs are being seen as a serious effort at bridging the gap and there are many people who will ensure that happens.
post #60 of 669
That doesn't make any sense.

The Hybrid will offends price-sensitive DVD buyers while also offending people who want BR because "it's the best picture available" today.

It's the worst of both worlds. It would make more sense to offer a two disc DVD/BR combos, since the current production process is likely cheaper, and the BR quality is still there.
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post #61 of 669
I want no part of hybrid discs, I have a Blu-Ray player on both tvs and my iMac. In a years time they will be just as cheap as DVD players and the discs will be too.
post #62 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphster View Post

So hybrid DVD/Blu-Ray disks are ready to hit the market and will start to be used on major released in 2009. These are disks that are DVD on one side and Blu-Ray on the other and best of all will work on all existing players.

I would expect for these to quickly become the standard for all new releases by the end of 2009 and thus killing any argument about Blu-Ray becoming the standard format for movie released for the next 5 years at least.

There were some movies released as hybrid HD-DVD/DVD and HD-DVD users panned the idea as one of the world's worst.
post #63 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Bribery and better business plans are not mutually exclusive.

Blu-ray has no chance of overtaking DVD. None.

I'll buy regardless because it will be the absolute best format to purchase
LotR and other movies worthy of spending over $30 on.

The hard truth is that upscaling technology keeps getting better and better. I see no reason why 720p video downloaded from the internet won't look equal to 1080p content on disc when ran through an optimized upscaler.

Many companies are working on integrating improved upscaling tech into products.

Well I don't know about that.

http://hdtv.biz-news.com/news/en_US/2008/06/24/0011

Quote:
DVD still dominates the movie market but Blu-ray set to overtake by 2012

That's only 3 years.

And already :

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...s-dvd-in-japan

Quote:
Blu-ray overtakes DVD in Japan
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post #64 of 669
Murch should learn this year to not speak/type in absolutes, at least that way people MIGHT listen to him

and NOBODY should apply logic to anything Bite says in regard to disc formats.

oh and RE the "late breaking news" on the silly idea of DVD on one side Blu on the other.. yeah, like that worked last time.

HOWEVER, I read somewhere recently (this month) that someone (panasonic????) had a BD disc with a DVD layer on the SAME side. that seems mildly more up to date and likely to work.. but is in all honesty just as likely to fail as the HD-DUD attempt.

as to me, I've just scored a whole host of movies from our digital broadcast service in SD and have them converting ready for the Apple TV/iPod/iPhone

I STILL say Dark Knight was a turkey.

and I'm having Ice Cream to see the new year in

hope 2009 is good for you all
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post #65 of 669
" The Dark Knight " was my favorite film this summer.
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post #66 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

" The Dark Knight " was my favorite film this summer.

Jim, I kind-of agree with Walter on this. First some caveats, I never was a great Batman fan even in my comic book days, and I watched it on an 8" display on a long transatlantic flight coming off an even longer flight. To me, the movie totally died in any scene that Heath Ledger wasn't in. But, of course, to each their own.
post #67 of 669
Marvin - the article specifically highlights definitively higher quality from Blu-ray... I watch upscaled DVDs when I have to, and 10 times out of 10, I'd rather see it on Blu-ray. To me the difference is stark - I'm very condfident that I identify the video sources between the 3 in a double blind test with over 90% accuracy.

Just my 2 space credits...

Dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Stores try to setup machines so that HD looks much better side by side vs SD. They even have demos of differing cables where the most expensive HDMI cable looks much better than the cheapest one. It's all marketing to get you to spend the most amount of money.

As you can see in this comparison of ATV, Blu-Ray, DVD and cable:

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/art...ource=rss_tech

there's no real reason to go for Blu-Ray based on video qualtiy. Like I say though, Blu-Ray will take off as a storage format and people will buy Blu-Ray movies as a result. I can see it being a very slow uptake though.
post #68 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDaveDave View Post

Marvin - the article specifically highlights definitively higher quality from Blu-ray... I watch upscaled DVDs when I have to, and 10 times out of 10, I'd rather see it on Blu-ray. To me the difference is stark - I'm very condfident that I identify the video sources between the 3 in a double blind test with over 90% accuracy.

Just my 2 space credits...

Blu-Ray is noticeably sharper certainly:

http://uk.gamespot.com/pages/forums/...ic_id=25633990

I saw a 1080p over Christmas on a 60" TV or something and the picture sharpness was great.

For me personally, I can live without it. I actually find the higher resolution pictures to be much worse in other areas such as lag. The bandwidth of the content is too high for the display to keep up. Fast moving scenes seem to jitter quite badly. Why pay £3000 for a TV with a £200 player, £50 cables and more expensive discs for a picture that stutters as you watch it?

Sure, you could buy a more expensive TV and cables but the question really is whether all that huge expense is worth it for the difference you see in the quality?

I'd say that if you had the money and could get a huge screen with a high bandwidth system then it will be better quality. For people who have smaller TVs and cheaper connections, I don't think Blu-Ray will offer more as the content will just lag and sitting at a reasonable distance away, you won't see the improvement.

The thing is, when you walk up to a cheap LCD TV, you can see very poor quality sometimes. From a distance you don't see the problem nearly so much. If I get a poor quality movie, I just sit back a bit from the display. Even the examples shown above, they blow up a small portion of the image. At normal size, the images both look fine.

I would value convenience of content delivery over picture quality every time. I think that's the case with most people. It's not so much how good it looks but can you get the movie and how cheap.

I used to have a DVD subscription and I've just cancelled it because it's too much bother dealing with physical discs. Now when it comes to ownership, I won't ever buy a compressed DRM movie. For renting, I prefer digital delivery, for purchases, a disc is better (film as a gift for example). I think both will survive for different needs.
post #69 of 669
Marvin,

If you have a 40" (diagonal) or bigger widescreen display (especially if it can display 1080p), you can immediately tell the difference between upconverted 480p DVD source and a true 1080p Blu-ray source--especially with very small details on-screen. I've seen Disney/PIXAR's Cars and on the Blu-ray version, you can literally read every detail of the decals on the race cars even when the "camera" is far away from the car.
post #70 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

My future is going to be

Netflix- for DVD and Blu-ray rentals
Apple TV for on demand stuff,
Hulu
Theater for can't miss movies.

Distribution of movies on blu-ray isn't the main reason top put Bluray into a PC/laptop though. Cheap storage/back-up and easy distribution of large personal data files/home movies is far more important and something which Blu-ray has an almost total monopoly on.
post #71 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

I've only got a 32" so DVDs still look great but my next screen will be around a 50" or so and I expect to see more of a difference.

Yes, with a 32" screen you might as well not bother with HD anything.
post #72 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

I guess, this really depends on what hardware everyone is using to play SD-DVD contents. These days, consumer/prosumer brand like Oppo makes pretty decent upscale DVD players from $150 to $250. Perhaps, having access to a decent upscaling DVD player may change your opinion.

If you can't tell the difference between upscaled DVD and BRD then 1) you need a better display that can show color and 2) you need a bigger display because you aren't getting any bang for your buck by going HD.

Resolution isn't the only advantage of BRD over DVD. The color space is much better and TrueHD better as well. While the source material is a key component, the entire display and audio chain has to work reasonably well to get the value out of the source material.

And yes, I had an Oppo as well as other upscaling DVD players.

On a side note, I went PS3 over 360 for one final reason...my XBox has no new games but we just bought RockBand for the PS2 and RockBand 2 for the PS3 and the controllers work for both. We could have gotten RB2 for the PS2 as well but figured for $10 might as well get the PS3 version.

I figure the PS3 has more useful life than the 360 regardless of what titles are available today simply because Sony seems less likely to cut it off at the knees to sell the PS4.
post #73 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Yes, with a 32" screen you might as well not bother with HD anything.

Which is kind of the problem Blu-ray is facing. I know a lot more people with HDTVs now than I did when I first joined this argument. But they're almost all under 37" and the one I can think of that's bigger is an older 720p model. If these people see up-converted and BD side by side at normal viewing distances in their homes they're not likely to see it as a worthwhile difference, if they see the difference at all.
post #74 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

Which is kind of the problem Blu-ray is facing. I know a lot more people with HDTVs now than I did when I first joined this argument. But they're almost all under 37" and the one I can think of that's bigger is an older 720p model. If these people see up-converted and BD side by side at normal viewing distances in their homes they're not likely to see it as a worthwhile difference, if they see the difference at all.

Yes, that's true today more or less. On the other hand I bought my parents a 46" Sony Bravia for $1100. Sony isn't the cheapest brand even if I got the cheapest Bravia line they make. You can get a cheapo 46" for far less.

More and more folks are going 40+". TV sizes are trending upwards as the prices decrease. It seems a lot of folks were buying big TVs from Costco when I was there during the Christmas sales. I would guess they were mostly above 37" and very few below.
post #75 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

More and more folks are going 40+". TV sizes are trending upwards as the prices decrease. It seems a lot of folks were buying big TVs from Costco when I was there during the Christmas sales. I would guess they were mostly above 37" and very few below.

In fact, Costco is getting to be just about the biggest dealer of big flatscreen TV's out there, right up there with Wal-Mart and Best Buy. Costco sells the excellent VIZIO SV420XVT and SV470XVT panels, which are major bargains considering the only thing that can beat it are really high-end LG, Samsung and Sony LCD panels that cost $500 to $700 more for the same size and capability. I would not be surprised that the SV420XVT is VIZIO's #1 selling model right now.
post #76 of 669
"But, at the end of the day, I dont think it will ever replace the DVD...

Okay, it's an Enderle quote, but the article makes some good points. A fuzzy future indeed.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #77 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

If you can't tell the difference between upscaled DVD and BRD then 1) you need a better display that can show color and 2) you need a bigger display because you aren't getting any bang for your buck by going HD.

Resolution isn't the only advantage of BRD over DVD. The color space is much better and TrueHD better as well. While the source material is a key component, the entire display and audio chain has to work reasonably well to get the value out of the source material.

And yes, I had an Oppo as well as other upscaling DVD players.

On a side note, I went PS3 over 360 for one final reason...my XBox has no new games but we just bought RockBand for the PS2 and RockBand 2 for the PS3 and the controllers work for both. We could have gotten RB2 for the PS2 as well but figured for $10 might as well get the PS3 version.

I figure the PS3 has more useful life than the 360 regardless of what titles are available today simply because Sony seems less likely to cut it off at the knees to sell the PS4.

I would probably agree with you if my HDM collection only consist of handfull of HD demo materials like Ratatuille, Casino Royale, POC series, and etc. as well as using PS3 for upscaling SD-DVD.
always a newbie
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always a newbie
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post #78 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

I would probably agree with you if my HDM collection only consist of handfull of HD demo materials like Ratatuille, Casino Royale, POC series, and etc. as well as using PS3 for upscaling SD-DVD.

Ya know, I remember folks saying the same about DVD in comparison to LD.

That you have a "handful" of demo titles indicates that over time most titles will be reasonable quality in a few years unless you believe that studios are going to go out of their way to select bad transfers for blu-ray releases. I just don't see that happening and certainly there will be directors that insist on a high quality job even from some companies that have been so-so.

Somehow I don't think that Jackson is going to allow a shoddy transfer on LOTR blu-ray do you? Over time the average DVD release became better. Same will happen to Blu-ray.
post #79 of 669
The reality is that you can download HD content today. The amount of content and number of distributors is growing everyday.

While I agree the quality of Blu-ray is better in every way. Most people are not knowledgeable enough to tell the difference. Convenience is always going to loose out to better quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

And yet some people just don't get this. They prefer their fantasy world where you can just download HD anything at will. Well that might happen someday but we'll all be older. There's just too many hurdles right now to make a mainstream purchasing concept of this viable. If you want quality HD on your TV now and for the foreseeable future BD is the only way to go.
post #80 of 669
The majority of the consumer market isn't educated or knowledgeable enough to see the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

If you can't tell the difference between upscaled DVD and BRD then 1) you need a better display that can show color and 2) you need a bigger display because you aren't getting any bang for your buck by going HD.

Resolution isn't the only advantage of BRD over DVD. The color space is much better and TrueHD better as well. While the source material is a key component, the entire display and audio chain has to work reasonably well to get the value out of the source material.
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