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NPD: Apple's US Mac sales flat in Nov., iMac needs refresh - Page 2

post #41 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Hold the fire cowboy(!) As a designer and a Mac user since '84... I agree with Techstud and the other guy. There was no reason whatsoever to change the "face" of the iMac... and especially not a dual-colored PC-esque f'ugly! That goes for the MacBooks und MBPs as well. All recyclable alu... maybe in shades of brushed gray or black... or even tinted alu colors..... but NOT this!

Like the guy said, "Just not Mac-like" at the moment.

My reaction to the raccoon like face of the iMac is the same as yours. However, I needed a new iMac for processing speed and internal disk space. I can say I love it. Love the screen - I don't need to do graphics work and love the saturated colors. The black rim really sets the colors off.

I miss the white face of the old iMac... but really like my iMac and wouldn't trade.
post #42 of 97
Apple is doomed I tell ya, doomed until they lower their prices.
post #43 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpellino View Post

Millions of men headed out the door in November with their wives yelling after them "Don't forget to get a turkey!"

And lo and behold they came home with 8 to 20 lb Vista machines.

Mystery solved.

Thank you for the laugh!
post #44 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncee View Post

This sucks. Now we have to sit around and watch the stock tumble today, on this report

This, and follow up articles by others, will force Apple to make some announcements real soon. Maybe sneak something out before MacWorld.

Lets all get ready for an interesting next 3 weeks.

Skip

Using Wall Street Logic, the stock should inversely rise.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #45 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

Apple cannot market outdated and overpriced consumer computers to knowledgeable buyers in a recession market. Quad-core Windows desktops have been available for the last 2 years and selling $300 cheaper than dual-core iMacs. And the next wave has arrived with brand new Core i7 quad-core desktop computers, 20% to 30% more powerful than quad-core Penryns.

iMacs have neither quad-core Penryns or quad-core Core i7 desktop processors because Apple doesn't want to use desktop processors in its consumer desktop computers. And Apple doesn't want to build business desktop computers because it wouldn't be able to overcharge businesses by $300 to $500 for every office computer.

Did you ever wonder why Apple is still in business? It is becoming increasingly difficult to recommend Apple computers to knowledgeable buyers because there are no business desktop computers and consumer desktop iMacs are outdated and overpriced by at least $300.


Hehehe, no I want to know why Apple is still in business, please tell me?
post #46 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by jawporta View Post

I know there's allot of people who like the glass displays but I'm sure Apple excluded plenty of people by not offering an option for those of us who can't use the reflective glass.

I'm holding out buying a new mac until I have an option.


I checked out the latest iMacs at my local Apple Store a few weeks ago. I was pretty annoyed by the reflections also.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #47 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

Also, I think Apple needs to come out with a mid size Mac.
They got the Mac mini, iMac and then Mac Pro. They need to come out with a Mac that fits between the all-in-one design and the Mac Pro.
For example.. The top line iMac in USA cost 2199$ and the Mac Pro cost 2799 without LCD.
If Apple came out with a machine at 1999$ without LCD, they could sell more Mac's and more LCDs...
People who don't want all-in-ones have to start at 2799$ and that is a basic machine.

I don't think this will work at all. Apple is expanding beyond 10% of market share very soon. This is going into a general public prices. They need a general refresh of their philosophy. Mac Pro is not getting as fast as it can be. Macbook pro can do pretty much very amazing things. Mini is not original anymore. Maybe 4 years ago it was.
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post #48 of 97
Apple needs to realign their products.

Mac Pro should start at $1499.

iMac should offer more functionality for the money. Why not add a TV Tuner? That way a persorn could literally purchase an iMac in lieu of a TV for a child and have the benefit of monitoring TV usage via parental controls. The iMacs aren't offering enough for the price. Not enough features or flexibility IMO.

The Macbook Unibody is an oversized Netbook with poor expandability for the price.

The Mac mini has languished and is in severe need of an update.

Apple's hardware has just been a dissapointment featurewise. Perhaps some declining sales will send a keen message that we Mac users want premium performance as well as premium styling lest we become the Bose of computing.
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post #49 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I checked out the latest iMacs at my local Apple Store a few weeks ago. I was pretty annoyed by the reflections also.

It's because you were in Apple Store. They have tons of lights. At home is not as bad.
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post #50 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Apple needs to realign their products.

Mac Pro should start at $1499.

iMac should offer more functionality for the money. Why not add a TV Tuner? That way a persorn could literally purchase an iMac in lieu of a TV for a child and have the benefit of monitoring TV usage via parental controls. The iMacs aren't offering enough for the price. Not enough features or flexibility IMO.

The Macbook Unibody is an oversized Netbook with poor expandability for the price.

The Mac mini has languished and is in severe need of an update.

Apple's hardware has just been a dissapointment featurewise. Perhaps some declining sales will send a keen message that we Mac users want premium performance as well as premium styling lest we become the Bose of computing.

LOL Macs seems like they don't have features anymore, because all other computers copied Apple's every feature. Apple just need to make some of its patents real.
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post #51 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

The Macbook Unibody is an oversized Netbook with poor expandability for the price.

Which netbooks offer dual 2GHz processors, Nvidia 9400 GPU, 1600MHz front side bus, and DDR3 memory.


Quote:
Apple's hardware has just been a dissapointment featurewise. Perhaps some declining sales will send a keen message that we Mac users want premium performance as well as premium styling lest we become the Bose of computing.

I can already see this thread sets the tone for 2009. When Apple's sales are off. It won't be because we are in a major world recession and everybody's sales are off. It will be because Apple did not make the computer I think they should make.
post #52 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Considering Apple has sold more Macs than ever before, I don't think they have excluded that many people.

Does everybody own the current iMAC?
Trust me- a lot of us are waiting for a makeover.
post #53 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Which netbooks offer dual 2GHz processors, Nvidia 9400 GPU, 1600MHz front side bus, and DDR3 memory.

I can already see this thread sets the tone for 2009. When Apple's sales are off. It won't be because we are in a major world recession and everybody's sales are off. It will be because Apple did not make the computer I think they should make.

Not many offer those features but astoundingly there are plenty of Netbooks that offer more connectivity than the Macbook.

I think the Mac fans should be setting the tone. Apple's pathological miniturization disease has been a bit too omnipresent.

iPod Nano 4g- way too thin which makes it more difficult to grasp. It's like holding a pack of wrigley's gum. The 3g model fits nicely in the palm.

Apple TV- Small for no apparent reason. Most CE devices are 17" across or roughly close to that. The dinky Apple TV makes no sense seeing as how it has no power button and sucks up wattage at all times. That is NOT Green or efficient IMO.

iMac - Who gives a shit about how thin it is? I'm not turning the screen so as to admire its Calista Flockheart proportions.

Mac Pro- Can someone please enter this computer into the next The Biggest Loser show? It really needs to shed some pounds and inches.

There's certainly nothing wrong with being demanding.

Apple = Premium. They should be living up to the lofty standards of Premium products.
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post #54 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Not many offer those features but astoundingly there are plenty of Netbooks that offer more connectivity than the Macbook.

I think the Mac fans should be setting the tone. Apple's pathological miniturization disease has been a bit too omnipresent.

iPod Nano 4g- way too thin which makes it more difficult to grasp. It's like holding a pack of wrigley's gum. The 3g model fits nicely in the palm.

Apple TV- Small for no apparent reason. Most CE devices are 17" across or roughly close to that. The dinky Apple TV makes no sense seeing as how it has no power button and sucks up wattage at all times. That is NOT Green or efficient IMO.

iMac - Who gives a shit about how thin it is? I'm not turning the screen so as to admire its Calista Flockheart proportions.

Mac Pro- Can someone please enter this computer into the next The Biggest Loser show? It really needs to shed some pounds and inches.

There's certainly nothing wrong with being demanding.

Apple = Premium. They should be living up to the lofty standards of Premium products.

What a joke.
post #55 of 97
Flockheart hahaha

I don't necessarily agree with you on the thinness of the nano ... but shedding an extra .2 mm like they seemed obsessed with doing is kinda annoying.

But generally spot on. Small is good, but good is better.
post #56 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Not many offer those features but astoundingly there are plenty of Netbooks that offer more connectivity than the Macbook.

I've never heard of connectivity selling notebooks. But you must keep some perspective. I'm not sure what makes the MacBook anymore like a netbook than any other notebook.


Quote:
I think the Mac fans should be setting the tone. Apple's pathological miniturization disease has been a bit too omnipresent.

There's certainly nothing wrong with being demanding.

Apple = Premium. They should be living up to the lofty standards of Premium products.

This is all a matter of personal taste. Their is no hard definition of premium standards.

While I can agree with you that the iPod nano feels really small in my hands. I don't want one so I don't really care. Ultimately the tone is set by sales. Apple's miniaturization is increasing sales.
post #57 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmac47 View Post

The problem Apple is facing is that even though they are producing superior products, with a slowing economy and race towards the bottom by PC manufacturers, their premium pricing scheme is not going to hold up. The iMacs start at $1200; a low end Dell or HP with monitor starts at $400 to $500. Even the Mac mini isn't that cheap, and the consumer still needs to get a monitor. Premium pricing is fine when the dow is reaching new highs and people are using their home equity as a credit card. But the only thing the average consumer is looking at now is price, and if Apple refuses to budge on that sales will slide.


superior what.....????!!!!????

people are looking for value, you will find none in cupertino.
post #58 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

What a joke.


I thought it was the best post so far... 100% spot on.
post #59 of 97
It's interesting how many trolls have decided to log into AppleInsider to tout the oft-repeated myth that Macs are directly comparable to PCs and are more expensive, thus, they're automatically overpriced and that Apple only survives through superior marketing that borders on brainwashing.

Nonesense!

That simplistic logic fails after one considers only a single truth:

Apple has a vastly superior consumer operating system (Mac OS X) than Windows.

'Nuff said. That's where the extra value comes from.
post #60 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Not many offer those features but astoundingly there are plenty of Netbooks that offer more connectivity than the Macbook.

I think the Mac fans should be setting the tone. Apple's pathological miniturization disease has been a bit too omnipresent.

iPod Nano 4g- way too thin which makes it more difficult to grasp. It's like holding a pack of wrigley's gum. The 3g model fits nicely in the palm.

Apple TV- Small for no apparent reason. Most CE devices are 17" across or roughly close to that. The dinky Apple TV makes no sense seeing as how it has no power button and sucks up wattage at all times. That is NOT Green or efficient IMO.

iMac - Who gives a shit about how thin it is? I'm not turning the screen so as to admire its Calista Flockheart proportions.

Mac Pro- Can someone please enter this computer into the next The Biggest Loser show? It really needs to shed some pounds and inches.

There's certainly nothing wrong with being demanding.

Apple = Premium. They should be living up to the lofty standards of Premium products.

Truer words have not been spoken (in this thread).

I too don't understand Apple's obsession with creating ultra thin products... that, and Apple has pretty much reached their limit with thinness with the unibodies... ports are only so small, and the unibodies' edges are borderline groping them. The only wany you'll get thinner from here on out is the exclusion of ports, which would limit the functionality of the notebook. Beauty has its limits
post #61 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post

(...)Apple has a vastly superior consumer operating system (Mac OS X) than Windows.

'Nuff said. That's where the extra value comes from.

We know, the "never used a Mac before customer" does not.
post #62 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I've never heard of connectivity selling notebooks. But you must keep some perspective. I'm not sure what makes the MacBook anymore like a netbook than any other notebook.


This is all a matter of personal taste. Their is no hard definition of premium standards.

While I can agree with you that the iPod nano feels really small in my hands. I don't want one so I don't really care. Ultimately the tone is set by sales. Apple's miniaturization is increasing sales.

No price sells Netbooks and we know Apple doesn't want to play the pricing game.

Don't get me wrong I like the features of the new Nano ..it's just when I held one for the first time it felt almost too small and thin. It'll benefit from being put into a case which has better grip IMO.

I think in a good economy Apple's bullring approach to leading consumers upstream works. In a recession that task becomes much harder. Everyone starts watching their money. Apple is not recession proof and I think we're going to find that out though the hit won't be all that bad.
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post #63 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

superior what.....????!!!!????

people are looking for value, you will find none in cupertino.

If your assertion was true, then what explains Apple's record profits for several quarters now, as well as the fact that have been selling more Macs than ever before in their history? Couple that with very solid demand for iPhone in a highly competitive cell phone industry, their dominance in the market for digital music players, and very successful retail presence in brick and mortar stores and online media sales.

If not for superior products, then what?

Frankly, after reading several of your recent posts, I find no evidence that you are anything but a troll.
post #64 of 97
Netbooks are okay, but forget trying to run Outlook and any other office program on them simultaneously. In the end, no one's going to replace their computer setup, laptop or desktop, with a netbook. Sure, disc drives will soon be dead, and we'll all be using SSDs but you still need horsepower. Even though I don't do anything terribly intensive at home, I love having a snappy computer. (I use Vista on a disposable Dell laptop at work, so trust me when I say my computer is snappy). Macs provide that, along with generally superior components. Couple that with OS X, and once you spec out a comparable Vista box or laptop, you're about the same.
post #65 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by iBill View Post

Frankly, after reading several of your recent posts, I find no evidence that you are anything but a troll.

iBill if you read all his posts... you would come to the same conclusion.
post #66 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

superior what.....????!!!!????

people are looking for value, you will find none in cupertino.

Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

iBill if you read all his posts... you would come to the same conclusion.

That's what I thought!
post #67 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

What a joke.

The only joke is your pathetic, mindless, and total allegiance to a computer company.
post #68 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Apple's quality control is no worse now than its ever been. Their have always been some degree of problems with some model of Apple computer. That is nothing recent or new. Problems are apart of designing electronic devices.

From a sales and profit perspective, 2008 was Apple's best year ever. 2009 is expected to be worse as we will be deep into a recession.

I beg to differ.
My first iMac had a gradient issue on the LCD.
Second iMac had a burnt pixel out of box.
Third iMac exchanged and two burnt pixels out of box.
Fourth iMac had gradient issue + humming noises (google both issues - I am not the only person having these issues)
Fifth iMac had a defective HDD
Sixth iMac has a another humming noise but the screen is the best of the 6 I had.

So if you are saying that Apple's quality control is the same, this is SCARY! I had PCs before and never had gradient issues or burnt pixels out of the box... And if I did, I wouldn't care because I paid $800 for them vs 2300$ for the Mac. And the Mac is more outdated. I expect it to be that much better when spending big bucks. Period.
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post #69 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

It's not only the glossy display. The thing is downright f'ugly- from its racoon face to its missmatched mouse and it's cheap plasticy back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Hold the fire cowboy(!) As a designer and a Mac user since '84... I agree with Techstud and the other guy. There was no reason whatsoever to change the "face" of the iMac... and especially not a dual-colored PC-esque f'ugly! That goes for the MacBooks und MBPs as well. All recyclable alu... maybe in shades of brushed gray or black... or even tinted alu colors..... but NOT this!

Like the guy said, "Just not Mac-like" at the moment.

The reality is everyone finds reasons to whine about it. The iMac design as wonderful a design it is (to me personally) always seemed to be a love-it-or-hate-it with people. They were either too white, had a big chin, display was too matte, or glossy, or black/aluminum is horrible... whatever.

I think the design is wonderful. Many friends (all different age groups) that have also bought one think it looks great too. Does that invalidate your claim? It certainly does not. However you do seem place a greater importance on its physical appearance than most people do. Besides, quality and durability is a big factor too and I think the iMac excels where other makers fail. Aluminum is durable and a great heat-sink. The glass display makes cleaning almost effortless and will not scratch.

Instead of criticizing the cosmetic appearance, by all means "Mr. Designer", offer some other kind of design/package/material/color-scheme that would fit your bill. There seems to be many "experts" here that spend an enormous amount of energy to derail a design but don't seem to have anything to offer to improve it.

I believe the current iMac is very "Mac-like". I don't know where you're coming from with that statement but from another post, I find it really hard to believe the current model could ever be mistaken for a Dell. Dell wishes I'm sure they could be mistaken for an Apple.

I look forward to the refresh soon. I'm waiting to see what they come up with!

</rant>
post #70 of 97
Gee, I wonder why sales could be flat??? I mean, come on Apple WTF! You've let your desktops rot!

Mac Mini
hasn't been updated for more than a year!
Intel GMA 950 !!! The Mini has had this GPU/chipset since early 2006!!!
COMBO DRIVE IN 2008??
120 GB HDD??
Old processors
1GB RAM - 1GB standard? RAM costs nothing!

iMac
ATI Radeon 2400 XT / Radeon 2600 Pro standard? These GPUs had their retail launch in June 2007! ATI already launched 4xxx series!
1GB or 2GB RAM - in a $1600-2500 desktop??

Mac Pro
2GB RAM - 2GB standard in a DP workstation??
ATI Radeon 2600 XT standard - !! Ancient GPU
320GB HDD standard - in a DP workstation?
post #71 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post

It's interesting how many trolls have decided to log into AppleInsider to tout the oft-repeated myth that Macs are directly comparable to PCs and are more expensive, thus, they're automatically overpriced and that Apple only survives through superior marketing that borders on brainwashing.

Nonesense!

That simplistic logic fails after one considers only a single truth:

Apple has a vastly superior consumer operating system (Mac OS X) than Windows.

'Nuff said. That's where the extra value comes from.

not true... OSX is superior.

However it is superior on hardware that costs a helluva lot more.

95% of Windows problems come from cheap hardware.

People compare a $500 Dell to $1300 Mac.....its not fair.

Apple have carefully constructed and marketed an image which is patently untrue.

If Mr Joe Public was to spend 'mac type' money on a Vista PC he would have arguably less problems. A more powerful computer with greater compatibility and a happy life.!
post #72 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by iBill View Post

If your assertion was true, then what explains Apple's record profits for several quarters now, as well as the fact that have been selling more Macs than ever before in their history? Couple that with very solid demand for iPhone in a highly competitive cell phone industry, their dominance in the market for digital music players, and very successful retail presence in brick and mortar stores and online media sales.

If not for superior products, then what?

Frankly, after reading several of your recent posts, I find no evidence that you are anything but a troll.

good I'm pleased we disagree... I take your comments as a compliment.

Selling more Macs is down to good marketing, good looking products and the tidal wave of bad press (mostly unjustified) against Vista.

Demand for iPhone outside the US (I am) is weak...apart from 3g launch it always has been, and they are in a niche market.

Music players is the tie to iTunes..the hardware is average, any review will tell you that. Creative and iRiver make much better products. Software sells the hardware, well done to them. Having said that videos don't do too well.

Apple is in this to make as much money as possible and to hell with the user. In this respect they are much worse than MS, as long as you remember it you'll do fine!
post #73 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuppingmaster View Post

Netbooks are okay, but forget trying to run Outlook and any other office program on them simultaneously. In the end, no one's going to replace their computer setup, laptop or desktop, with a netbook. Sure, disc drives will soon be dead, and we'll all be using SSDs but you still need horsepower. Even though I don't do anything terribly intensive at home, I love having a snappy computer. (I use Vista on a disposable Dell laptop at work, so trust me when I say my computer is snappy). Macs provide that, along with generally superior components. Couple that with OS X, and once you spec out a comparable Vista box or laptop, you're about the same.


Value PC, no OS.

Athlon 5000x2, 2gb Ram, 250gb harddrive. Basic ATI graphics card. DVD burner. LAN port. 6 USB.

fully upgradeable.

Vista home premium OEM. (runs at 4.0 score)

Run sweet as a nut for over a year.

$375


unless anyone is App specific to OSX then there is no reason to waste the money on a Mac.
post #74 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

iBill if you read all his posts... you would come to the same conclusion.


thank you, to be at the opposite end of this argument to you is most satisfying. You re-affirm my values with every word you type.
post #75 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

You re-affirm my values with every word you type.

If you value joining an Apple forum with the sole intention of badmouthing the products, services, and business model of a single company then I find that really sad.

To do the same on yet another one (macrumors.com) is just pathetic.
post #76 of 97
What I am saying is that at no time has Apple ever produced a line of computers, were every computer has worked 100% perfectly 100% of the time. No electronics company holds that record. Their have always been some issue with some line of computer at one point or another.

For the past few years Apple has ranked high in consumer satisfaction with respect to the use of their products.

I find it difficult to believe that Apple gave you 6 replacements. Especially when most of the issues you list are very simple to repair. I've never heard of Apple replacing a whole machine because of a couple of burned out pixels.


Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

I beg to differ.
My first iMac had a gradient issue on the LCD.
Second iMac had a burnt pixel out of box.
Third iMac exchanged and two burnt pixels out of box.
Fourth iMac had gradient issue + humming noises (google both issues - I am not the only person having these issues)
Fifth iMac had a defective HDD
Sixth iMac has a another humming noise but the screen is the best of the 6 I had.

So if you are saying that Apple's quality control is the same, this is SCARY! I had PCs before and never had gradient issues or burnt pixels out of the box... And if I did, I wouldn't care because I paid $800 for them vs 2300$ for the Mac. And the Mac is more outdated. I expect it to be that much better when spending big bucks. Period.
post #77 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

Selling more Macs is down to good marketing, good looking products and the tidal wave of bad press (mostly unjustified) against Vista.

You really think marketing and press are the difference between OS X and Vista. As if people have not actually used both and come to an informed decision. Is that the same reason so many still prefer XP over Vista?


Quote:
Apple is in this to make as much money as possible and to hell with the user. In this respect they are much worse than MS, as long as you remember it you'll do fine!

Every company is in this to make as much money as possible.
post #78 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

If you value joining an Apple forum with the sole intention of badmouthing the products, services, and business model of a single company then I find that really sad.

To do the same on yet another one (macrumors.com) is just pathetic.

Its called 'free will' and expressing an opinion.

You used to be able to do it in the States..but maybe no more.

..hold on so you went searching for my posts...on other sites.....and I'm sad??

yeah..ok.
post #79 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

You really think marketing and press are the difference between OS X and Vista. As if people have not actually used both and come to an informed decision. Is that the same reason so many still prefer XP over Vista?




Every company is in this to make as much money as possible.



No not the only difference.

OSX is better but the margin is small.

The press have beaten down on Vista and inflated Leopard, as always the truth lies some where between.

yes money is there to be made but some companies don't gouge their own loyal fanbase, of which you are a fine example.,
post #80 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post

The press have beaten down on Vista and inflated Leopard, as always the truth lies some where between.

Press weren't the only ones. Business who depend on Windows had little faith in Vista. I'm sure MS has made moves to improve Vista, but that has not seemed to instill much confidence.

Quote:
yes money is there to be made but some companies don't gouge their own loyal fanbase, of which you are a fine example.,

No one is forced to buy a Mac. Apple has to compete in an open market with everyone else. If the loyal fan base felt gouged they are free to go elsewhere.
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